Logic, Experience, Order

[Inferius]

......Most people consider themselves very logical.
Well, I want to ask you this.
In the natural order of things, we are born, experience, and then debate from the history of that experience.
How can you ever understand what you are debating, without first understanding the nature of your own mind?
When two people see a cloud, they see very different things. One might see the cloud in terms of a social image, like a rabbit or a feather. The other might see the gestalt outline of the cloud and the sky around it, looking for weather conditions or merely examining the very particles of light that enter the eye as "cloud".

.............Why do you think your perspective on reality is any more valid than anyone else's, and especially so when the perspectives we differ on are usually little more than conditioned moral/social/political values?
Except for someone totally lost and judgmental, don't we all have the same intrinsic values of Love, Understanding/Truth, Wonder, Contentment, and Exhilaration?

............Don Juan: "Our entrapment in processing our perception to fit a social mold loses its power when we realize we have accepted this mold, as an inheritance from our ancestors, without bothering to examine it."

..........When you do not question the very essence of perception and configuration of your reality, or the way you relate to it, you are essentially asleep. You are living in a world of pre-defined concepts that loses all imaginative or creative power, and the only thing you can do is add old concepts to each other, without creating new ones. Most people are like this. They spend their time thinking of 1 + 1 = 2. And they do their best to enjoy it.
But I am not content in a pre-defined reality with pre-defined goals and a pre-defined dictionary of ways to communicate.


..........For an experiment, the next time you step outside and the wind blows, I want you to imagine you are under water. Remember watching those films of people scuba diving and as the water current flowed so did seaweed and tendrils?
..Our atmosphere is essentially the same thing.
Remember this, because it's extremely exciting to give yourself the freedom to look at the world in such a way. And you can take this to such extremes.

......... For another, look at peoples bodies. Technically, a body is just as dynamic and symptomatic as anything else in this world. Someone's physical body, and someones spiritual body, couldn't they be the same "thing"? They're just essence, and the way the essence presents itself, in our social values through body language, can be converted to the dynamic understanding of "spiritual communication".
What are sounds? Are they not telepathic waves of information streaming through the essence of reality to deliver a spiritual message of emotion, agenda, self, or environment?

[Inferius]

I also want to make note, of Afghooey's thread about being Wizards.
When Don Juan speaks of Sorcery, he's not talking about making potions and adding this to that, 1 + 2. He's talking about the Alchemical processes of your own Inner Perceptions, and learning how to use our own Dynamic Power to influence those perceptions, and therefore effecting the external world.

The Matrix "Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. "

[Coelho]

Man... i didnt know you had read any of Castaneda books... im very glad to know it! :thumbsup: Which books did you read?
Sometimes i thought that me and geonagual would feel so lonely here... as we were the only ones that did say anything about don Juan and so.
Well... i agree completly with your post. And i think the Matrix was completly based upon don Juan's teachings... the more i read and understand, more i see resemblances of it with the movie...
Sometimes i even think the movie was a way to make the reality of the sorcery known to all people... but only few ones can really understand and accept it... because for the most, its just more one movie.

[Inferius]

The Art of Dreaming (http://prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan9.html)

The last book you'll ever need to read.
And the thing about sorcery/god/power, is that when you truly have it, you find it everywhere, in everyone, and every breath.
You find that the world you lives in was actually just a world of ideas, of a life you literally built out of exponential processes in your mind.

The story of man's enlightenment is always the same,
due to the nature of man.
1st step: Recognizing a void in your life.
2nd step: Searching, for answers, understanding, whatever.
3rd step: Synchronization of your mind to the external world, repeated experiences of enlightening metaphors and philosophical understanding.
4rth step: Psychedelics, Meditation, or just a bump on the head, and suddenly you realize that you entire life is a bunch of ideas all representing the same concept, like a space ship sitting in your backyard your whole life, and you thought that it was just a garden shed.

5th Step: ...Whatever you want it to be. Mine? I'm going to re-write the entire world. I don't want any war, any lack of prosperity or love, or any addiction.
I recognize that the external world is only a mirror of my internal processes.

9th Step: 2012, break through into infinite consciousness, world becomes a playground of total creativity, infinity. Except that time isn't linear, and 2012 isn't 4 years away. It's the total synchronization of Intent + Experience, meaning if someone desires to create a world entirely of jelly beans and edible whales to ride, it'll happen.

[Hardcore Newbie]

Man... i didnt know you had read any of Castaneda books... im very glad to know it! :thumbsup: Which books did you read?
Sometimes i thought that me and geonagual would feel so lonely here... as we were the only ones that did say anything about don Juan and so.
Well... i agree completly with your post. And i think the Matrix was completly based upon don Juan's teachings... the more i read and understand, more i see resemblances of it with the movie...
Sometimes i even think the movie was a way to make the reality of the sorcery known to all people... but only few ones can really understand and accept it... because for the most, its just more one movie.The questions that "the matrix" raises are taught in any introductory critical thinking or psychology course.

And 1+1 does equal 2. it's hard to debate. If anyone wants to believe otherwise, then go ahead, just show me the logic you use if you believe otherwise.

1+1 isn't some mystical problem that we take at face value and hope that we're right. We take a single object, we'll call that single object "one", and assign it a symbol... lets call it "1". we take another single object, a "1" if you will. We put them together, and now we have a 1 and another 1. We'll call this amount of 1s "two", and give it a symbol to represent that. We make the symbol look like this "2".

[GraziLovesMary]

The Art of Dreaming (http://prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan9.html)

The last book you'll ever need to read.


Are you implying that once you have read that book, then you will have gained all the knowledge and wisdom that the universe can present, and that you are searching for?

While your writings are certainly inspired by enlightened viewpoints, absolutism of nothingness can be a sticky trap indeed.

[jdmarcus59]

we are born, we live we laugh, we cry, and then we die. And all through are lives
we wonder why. why do we wonder.

[Inferius]

Are you implying that once you have read that book, then you will have gained all the knowledge and wisdom that the universe can present, and that you are searching for?

While your writings are certainly inspired by enlightened viewpoints, absolutism of nothingness can be a sticky trap indeed.

Nah, I'm saying that on a psychedelic, the amount of empathy/creativity you have is, as everyone knows, incredible.
I realize right now that I'm essentially talking to myself,
but I'm really, really, REALLY happy I found out how the matrix works.

Technically, you can learn don juan's principles for dreaming a new reality from freaking blues clues every morning.
It's all trying to say the same thing.

Absolutism of nothingness is still an idea. My philosophy goes beyond ideas, which are round concepts, to the golden spiral, which is the infinite noodle of a metaphor for a soul remembering where it came from, and why it is here, and how to be best.

Also...duality. It helps to read things without stereotyping them into old concepts. The idea is that whenever there is a negative or positive statement, you add the opposite idea and have the folly of man.
God is there!
No he isn't!
Oh shit, that's just a burrito...burro...burrito?

yeah man... jackass...

Exactly!

[GraziLovesMary]

Nah, I'm saying that on a psychedelic, the amount of empathy/creativity you have is, as everyone knows, incredible.
I realize right now that I'm essentially talking to myself,
but I'm really, really, REALLY happy I found out how the matrix works.

Technically, you can learn don juan's principles for dreaming a new reality from freaking blues clues every morning.
It's all trying to say the same thing.

Absolutism of nothingness is still an idea. My philosophy goes beyond ideas, which are round concepts, to the golden spiral, which is the infinite noodle of a metaphor for a soul remembering where it came from, and why it is here, and how to be best.

Also...duality. It helps to read things without stereotyping them into old concepts. The idea is that whenever there is a negative or positive statement, you add the opposite idea and have the folly of man.
God is there!
No he isn't!
Oh shit, that's just a burrito...burro...burrito?

yeah man... jackass...

Exactly!

Well I congratulate you on your findings and wish you a prosperous and enlightening journey.

[Coelho]

Inferius, i didnt read that book in the original form, only in the resumed form that is in that link (in fact, i did read all that "resumes" of the books...)
Anyway, i think you would like to read the books themselves... the history between the teachings is very nice, and sometimes it helps a lot to understand the teachings.
I would suggest start with the Journey to Ixtlan, then A Separate Reality, Tales of Power, and The Active Side of Infinity (in this order). It was the order i followed myself, and i enjoyed a lot.
Anybody else who wishes a completly new vision about the world must read these books... preferibly stoned, because its much easier to understand... :stoned:

[Inferius]

Thanks Coelho,
but the last two and a half years I've spent studying the dynamics of dreaming.
It's started to pick up the pace, and soon, I'm not coming back.

I've said it a million times man,
it's all the same idea.
The concept of dreaming is easier to understand on drugs because drugs give you a better sense of empathy, especially psychedelics.
Empathy is the same thing as personal power,
and when you have enough of it,
any movie, any story,
is enough to excite the same evolved spiritual truths.

Read someone else. Read Dr. Seuss.
Don Juan is a little too serious in his teachings,
it makes it sound like the powers that be are in some way not understanding.

But it's not the words he's trying to get across, those are just symbols.
The ideas behind the words...

Those are the gold.
Go for it.


Our destiny is right around the corner...

[Coelho]

Well... i did look the link you posted in another thread, about the 8-circuit model, and i think it is very interesting... i will read it again, more deeply, for try to understand. But it seemed to be very true.

Even if you are a master of dreaming, there is still another things to learn. In The Second Ring of Power, Castaneda talks about how to bring the perceptions and "powers" we have while dreaming, to the waking life, and thus achieve amazing deeds.
I keep suggesting for you to read the another books. You will lose nothing, and win a lot doing so.

And i understand perfectly what you mean about the personal power being empathy... even if i dont agree completly with this, i agree that we can understand, or rather, extract from everything (movies, histories, as you said), the essencial truths. For me, every day is a lesson. The world is an open book, for those who knows to read...

Hardcore Newbie, the things that there is in the Matrix and also in the don Juan teachings are not only the "common" phylosophy, the Plato's Cave and so... the books talk about more specifical things, like we humans being energy source for another kind of beings, the possibility of doing amazing things in the "real world"after you realize that its not "real", the possibility of the very essence of the universe being information (consciousness) instead energy and matter, and so...

I dont know what is the substance which inferius was under effect, but if he really did understood the world as the matrix, i hope he tell us what he discovered.