Prophesy today.

[PureEvil760]

Ok my friend Willow Earth did a channeling today of a being who when we asked who it was, it said "I am none but all, all but one" One prediction it made was that in about three weeks there will be an earthquake in china. Three weeks from now is August 5th, for the record today is July 15th 07. It also said that our government will release a tape that we will see in the news, and that it is fake..our government is lieing to us and not to trust them.

[Hardcore Newbie]

Define earthquake and you have a prophecy :D

[Coelho]

Lets wait to see... only the future can tell if it really was a prophecy...

[Hardcore Newbie]

China is a pretty big country, and an earthquake isn't that uncommon.

[Coelho]

Well... indeed earthquakes there are not uncommon... anyway... just right now i had a strange thought... maybe this "eartquake" is actually a nuclear test, but the u.s. government wont wish people knows it, so they will release a tape showing an "earthquake" in the china, to cover the truth.
I think i really did trip heavily right now... but, again, lets wait till august 5th. :stoned:

[Storm Crow]

"our government is lieing to us and not to trust them". No matter if Willow is right or wrong about the earthquake, the last bit is absolutely true! - Granny:hippy:

ps - It's "lying". Sorry, I work as a tutor. ;)

[Oneironaut]

Ok my friend Willow Earth did a channeling today of a being who when we asked who it was, it said "I am none but all, all but one" One prediction it made was that in about three weeks there will be an earthquake in china. Three weeks from now is August 5th, for the record today is July 15th 07. It also said that our government will release a tape that we will see in the news, and that it is fake..our government is lieing to us and not to trust them.
I talked with Bigfoot today, and I asked him who would be the Democratic candidate in the 2008 election. He read some tea leaves and said it would be Hilary Clinton, and the vice presidential candidate would be a unicorn that farts rainbows. Was it really a prophecy? I went to my Senator and asked him about it, but he said Bigfoot and unicorns that fart rainbows sounded crazy. I think he's in on the cover-up.

No, sorry, you can't just look into the future like that. The best you can do is make educated guesses based on what's going on now and how you can expect things to change based on how things have changed before. That's the nature of time. You can't time travel to the past, you can't obtain information directly from the future, and you can't go faster than the speed of light. Information traveling backwards in time basically means that information would have to be traveling faster than the speed of light, which has been proven impossible. That's just the way Einstein's theories of relativity say the universe works. Until you come up with a better theory about the nature of time, you're going to have to deal with it.

[Coelho]

No, sorry, you can't just look into the future like that. The best you can do is make educated guesses based on what's going on now and how you can expect things to change based on how things have changed before. That's the nature of time. You can't time travel to the past, you can't obtain information directly from the future, and you can't go faster than the speed of light. Information traveling backwards in time basically means that information would have to be traveling faster than the speed of light, which has been proven impossible. That's just the way Einstein's theories of relativity say the universe works. Until you come up with a better theory about the nature of time, you're going to have to deal with it.

Well... I foresee that there will be a partial solar eclipse at 9/11 of this year. It still didnt happened, so its only a prevision. But how can i be so sure that it will happen? Because its based upon known laws, so we can "predict the future" using this known laws.
Maybe there is laws that govern the happening of eartquakes. They are physical phenomena too, and they are subject to the physics laws too. The fact that the science still didnt discovered the laws that govern the eartquakes doesnt mean that they doesnt exist.
So, maybe those "future foreseers", by means of altered states of mind, have acess to laws that are unknown to us until today. And so, they made their previsions.


PS. Note that the physical laws, like the relativity, are only applicable to the physical/material world. But i wont speak about it.

[Oneironaut]

Well... I foresee that there will be a partial solar eclipse at 9/11 of this year. It still didnt happened, so its only a prevision. But how can i be so sure that it will happen? Because its based upon known laws, so we can "predict the future" using this known laws.
Correct. This process is known as "science".

Maybe there is laws that govern the happening of eartquakes. They are physical phenomena too, and they are subject to the physics laws too. The fact that the science still didnt discovered the laws that govern the eartquakes doesnt mean that they doesnt exist
Geologists have a pretty good understanding about what causes earthquakes. It's just so much harder to predict them because there are so many more variables. When you're predicting a solar eclipse, it's simple because the motions of the Sun and the Moon and the Earth are very straightforward and very easy to calculate. But in order to exactly predict an earthquake you would have to know pretty much everything that was happening under the surface of the ground all over the earth all the way down to the core. We simply don't have the tools to measure that, or the computers capable of churning out the equations to figure out exactly where the next earthquake will strike.

So, maybe those "future foreseers", by means of altered states of mind, have acess to laws that are unknown to us until today. And so, they made their previsions.
I find it incredibly difficult to believe these people have magical superpowers to probe all the motions of the Earth's geology, and supercomputing powers to process all that information, to determine exactly where a future earthquake will strike. If that's the case, they're going to have to prove themselves. If they can reasonably accurately predict the time, location and intensity of three earthquakes, I will be very impressed. If they can do twenty, I will be definitely convinced. Why can't they do this, if they really have that special connection to the other side?

Don't think I haven't ever taken these people's ideas seriously. I used to be a huge psychic fan, and even had my favorite guru who I thought made accurate prophesies about natural disasters and such. But I waited and his prophesies did not come true, except for the obvious ones that anyone with some common sense could have predicted, and after further investigation, I have not found one single verifiable example of a psychic who made a very convincing prediction about any unusual event.

PS. Note that the physical laws, like the relativity, are only applicable to the physical/material world. But i wont speak about it.
Well, I'm a logical positivist. If you're going to postulate the existence of something outside the physical/material world, you're going to have to provide sufficient evidence for its existence.

I am a determinist, and I think all things are just the inevitable consequences of the Big Bang. All your choices were pre-determined before you were born. However, people who are not determinists think that we have some sort of free will capable of making choices that transcend the physical laws of causality, so that the future is not entirely pre-determined. If human decisions cannot be predicted by laws, then the future cannot be predicted either. If your theory is true, then there are indeed knowable laws which can predict the very thoughts and decisions that are made in our own minds! Thus, the kind of free will that spiritualists talk of could not possibly exist! So which is it? Are we soulless machines whose every action can be predicted long in advance, or does the future have an inherent unpredictability?

[Coelho]

Well... all i can say is that our minds are far more powerful than we acknowledge... have you ever thought about the amount of calculations that should be needed to throw, lets say, a knife and its tip enter nicely the target? Remember that we have to consider the movement of the knife, its rotation around itself, the air fricction, the gravity pull, and so... if we would put into a computer, im sure it would be a long calculation... and yet, the knife-throwers who works in circus does it without even think... and they throw the knives with such precision that sometimes they put a woman in the target, and she never is hurt.
Ok, maybe its not a very good example, but im sure you get the idea.

And if you are determinist, why does you think previsions are so impossible? Accordingly with the determinism, everything that will happen is already determined. So, why does we cant know what will happen, if its already decided?
The free will, the impredictable character of things is what makes the previsions much more difficult...


EDIT: Only now, after re-reading your post i could understand the last paragraph of it... and it will take me some time to think about... as what you said there is really well thought...

[Oneironaut]

Well... all i can say is that our minds are far more powerful than we acknowledge... have you ever thought about the amount of calculations that should be needed to throw, lets say, a knife and its tip enter nicely the target? Remember that we have to consider the movement of the knife, its rotation around itself, the air fricction, the gravity pull, and so... if we would put into a computer, im sure it would be a long calculation... and yet, the knife-throwers who works in circus does it without even think... and they throw the knives with such precision that sometimes they put a woman in the target, and she never is hurt.
Ok, maybe its not a very good example, but im sure you get the idea.
It's not the same. Knife-throwing is a skill. Through trial and error, you learn the right hand movements, the right wrist movements to get it where you want it to go. You don't actually sit down and think about the air friction and the acceleration due to gravity and so forth. Predicting earthquakes is a lot more complicated. A simple robot could probably throw a knife onto a target, if it was properly programmed or if it could experiment a little bit with trial and error. It could not analyze the geological movements of each part of each tectonic plate everywhere on the planet, and the movement of all the magma in the mantle. There is not enough computing power in a human brain, or even in our most powerful supercomputers, to perform those calculations. Just look at how accurate our weather predicting supercomputers are. Those things are capable of doing waaaaaaaaaaaay more calculations than your brain, yet they can't do a very good job of predicting the weather more than a week or so in advance.

And if you are determinist, why does you think previsions are so impossible?
Because according to Einsteinian relativity, information cannot travel faster than the speed of light, i.e. backwards in time. You can make reasonable predictions about the future if you know enough about the current universe and if you have the ability to calculate how things will change in the future. In principle, you could predict an earthquake, and even predict the reactions everybody would have to the earthquake. You'd just need a really powerful computer and really good observational tools for figuring out where all the particles are at one particular moment in time.

[Coelho]

Well... my example really was not good... now i see it.
Anyway, still our minds are far greater than any man-made computer... the dream of the computer scientists is create artificial intelligence... and for doing so they need very powerful computers. There is a lot of research in this area, and i did read that there was at least one supercomputer created specifically to mimic the behavior of the human brain. But still they are very behind it... How large should be a computer which were as intelligent as a human brain, who is capable of being conscious? If you consider our mind just like a machine, then you must agree that is a very powerful machine. If a computer could be conscious of itself, what else it couldnt calculate?
Thats why i think that making a prevision about a thing that is based upon physical laws is not so difficult for a human brain... as it does things far more difficult... the mere process of thinking is, computationally speaking, much more difficult than any calculations...

And previsions based upon the determinism doesnt violate the relativity, because if we know the present, we can calculate the future directly, without the need of "foresee" it. Any information that could come from the future is not any novelty, as it is already known in the present.

EDIT:Reaper, i only did see your post after i post mine. Anyway, if animals can "feel" earthquakes coming, then certainly people could do it also.

[onequestion]

I predict that tommorow...stuff will happen. Its about as specific and as obvious as that prediction.

[cacayjunasian]

Ok my friend Willow Earth did a channeling today of a being who when we asked who it was, it said "I am none but all, all but one" One prediction it made was that in about three weeks there will be an earthquake in china. Three weeks from now is August 5th, for the record today is July 15th 07. It also said that our government will release a tape that we will see in the news, and that it is fake..our government is lieing to us and not to trust them.

wow, a none but all and all but one being predicted an earthquake in one of the most active seismic parts of the world....congratulations :thumbsup:

[Coelho]

Ok... now the future has come.
Does any of this "predictions" really happened?

[Coelho]

One prediction it made was that in about three weeks there will be an earthquake in china. Three weeks from now is August 5th, for the record today is July 15th 07.

Well... after almost one year, actually there were an big earthquake in china. But it is an usual thing there, and surely the average interval between earthquakes there is smaller than one year, so this prediction was useless. Anyone can make predictions this way.


Ok my friend Willow Earth did a channeling today of a being who when we asked who it was, it said "I am none but all, all but one"

Beware of who you trust and in what you believe... anyone can give any name to itself... and anyone can say anything... but takes wisdom to discern the truth from the deceit.