ask a former catholic

[Quincyboy]

from what i've read there seems to be a whole lot of confusion about the beliefs of abrahamic religions so I decided this would be a good thread to help clear up some of this confusion

i have attended catholic schools all my life which amounts to 13 and a half years of religion classes and I have two friends on the path to priesthood, I had a fallout with the catholic church and that is why I am a former catholic

i will try to answer your questions as best I can and according to what I was taught and i have very extensive knowledge on this subject

so please ask away

[PHATTY LUMPKINS]

Why do Catholic's beleive in The Divinity of Jesus Christ?

[Quincyboy]

catholics belive that jesus was both truly human and truly devine making him the bridge between humanity and god

its my opinion that this allowed god to be shown in a more intimate and forgiving light, if you look at the old testament god was very wrathful but in the new testament god almost takes on a motherly role

it also made god much easier to believe in the fact that he had a human son preforming miracles in his name and proclaiming his name gave people a chance to have direct contact with god

[PHATTY LUMPKINS]

So really now that your a (Former Catholic) If you dont mind me asking, and since I am a non practicing Catholic What was your Fallout?

[beachguy in thongs]

I took Religious Studies at The College of St. Rose (after it had become a non-denominational, non-female only college). I was told, by my professor, that a lot of religious scholars believe that religion was started when we developed language, and started personalizing things by giving them names.

So, does it really matter if you are a former-Catholic, as long as you believe that someone is responsible for getting us to the point of creating language?

[Quincyboy]

So really now that your a (Former Catholic) If you dont mind me asking, and since I am a non practicing Catholic What was your Fallout?

I had sereval issues with my local priests and after a convorsation with the arch-bishop I decided that the catholic church had long ago lost sight of the purpose behind religion and allowed it to take a backseat into world polotics

now I am an undecided person i'm giving myself time to think and learn about many different religions and see which one would be the best for me, or if I even want to be religous

[Quincyboy]

I took Religious Studies at The College of St. Rose (after it had become a non-denominational, non-female only college). I was told, by my professor, that a lot of religious scholars believe that religion was started when we developed language, and started personalizing things by giving them names.

So, does it really matter if you are a former-Catholic, as long as you believe that someone is responsible for getting us to the point of creating language?

I agree that it did take spoken language to form concerete religions but I also beleive that even before spoken word there must have been some thought of an abstract being controlling cosmetic forces, that is religions primary function, to explain the unexplainable

and i'm not really sure what your trying to get across in your second statement

[Pass That Shit]

Quincyboy,
Don't look back. Shake the dust off your shoes. Follow him.

Reaper666,
You can't compare Santa with Jesus. One is real and one is NOT. Jesus brings substance and evidence but Mr. Clause does NOT.

[onequestion]

Louis CK also knows a lot about the catholic church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k

[Pass That Shit]

"I said God not Jesus. I mean the entity which allegedly created the universe but we cannot observe, not the human prophet."

Jesus is LORD. Jesus is the creator.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

"He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

[Pass That Shit]

Jesus is the Father. The Father/Son/Holy Spirit are ONE.
If you say that one is not the other, then you are saying that there are three Gods.

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Only the Father is to be worshipped. Why do you think the wise men went to worship baby Jesus?

"O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker."

"And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh."

[Quincyboy]

This is not an attack but a serious question I have been pondering for the past couple days. Why would anybody who believes in any sort of deity think that they are any different than a little kid waiting for Santa Clause on xmas? He knows when you're asleep, he knows when you're awake, he knows when you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake... that generally fits the description of a god. Santa Clause is a man made fictitious entity so why could God not be? Children usually don't know any better until their parents tell them, or they observe the lies for themselves when they see the parents put presents under the tree. Either way it's usually heartbreaking and not something kids want to learn, that the magical guy who brings them joy every year is fake. That generally fits the description of a hardcore Christian...

what the catholic church would tell you is that there is evidence everwhere of god and that scripture is all the evidence that humans need for our faith in the lord to be strong

what I will tell you is this, its easy to say santa doesnt exist because youll still get christmas presents, its not easy to deny that truly we are alone and insignificant in this universe and that there is no reason for our being except mere chance. also the fact that when we die that might be it is extremely scary it scares me every time i think about it

[Quincyboy]

Jesus is the Father. The Father/Son/Holy Spirit are ONE.
If you say that one is not the other, then you are saying that there are three Gods.

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Only the Father is to be worshipped. Why do you think the wise men went to worship baby Jesus?

"O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker."

"And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh."

catholics do belive that there are three in one the holy trinity, but we aslo aknowledge that the seperate enititys are different

god the father is the completly divine omniscient omnipresent and the other omni

god the son is the fully human fully divine entity the bridge between the creator and his flock

the spirit is the abstract presence of the creator in each and every one of us

[Quincyboy]

Louis CK also knows a lot about the catholic church.

although that is very funny i would like to at least try to keep this thread serious so please take it somewhere else

[Breukelen advocaat]

Louis CK also knows a lot about the catholic church.


That was excellent. The pity of it is, it's true.

The old song, California Dreaming, by the Mamas and the Papas, mentions stopping in a Church in New York, on a very cold day. Mama Michelle Phillips said, some years ago, that she was referring to St. Patrick's cathedral (shown in the You Tube Vid, above) when she wrote it.

[Polymirize]

how big a role do the various saints and demons play for catholic doctrine?

Seems like they're more into them than the protestants. What's behind that?

[Breukelen advocaat]

how big a role do the various saints and demons play for catholic doctrine?

Seems like they're more into them than the protestants. What's behind that?

If there was no devil, there'd be no religion. It's a big part of all christian churches' dogma. The protestants were outraged by the adaptation of various pagan beliefs by the Catholic Church, and many of their teachings were just rewordings of old myths - whether it was about devils or beneficial beings.

[Quincyboy]

how big a role do the various saints and demons play for catholic doctrine?

Seems like they're more into them than the protestants. What's behind that?

If you look throught the catechism of the catholic church you will find very few refrences to demons. most people associate the catholic church with demons because of two reasons 1. hollywood 2. the catholic church on very few occasions since vatican II have preformed exorcisms. in reality its more the ever present temptation of the devil cause by original sin that is extremly common. I attended weekly masses for over 16 years and on only a few occasions did the priest mentions demons

saints are a different thing all together. a saint is a person that lived their lives in the true sense of being catholic they were the most prominant examples of the religion and they were reconised as it. many saints were martyrs or faced oppression or descrimination others were just truly wonderful people that showed the essence of the faith

saints are very important in that we belive as all people in heaven look out for us that is why its common to hear catholics praying to saints like saint anthony, michael the archangel, raphael the healer and such

[Quincyboy]

If there was no devil, there'd be no religion. It's a big part of all christian churches' dogma. The protestants were outraged by the adaptation of various pagan beliefs by the Catholic Church, and many of their teachings were just rewordings of old myths - whether it was about devils or beneficial beings.

the protestant reformation was caused by the teaching and sale of indulgences and widespred corruption in the church also the major conflicting views were purgatory, glorification of the mother mary, the popes authority, most of the sacrements, and intercession of the saints

remind me when martin luther nailed the "ninety-five these on pagan beliefs"

[Breukelen advocaat]

the protestant reformation was caused by the teaching and sale of indulgences and widespred corruption in the church also the major conflicting views were purgatory, glorification of the mother mary, the popes authority, most of the sacrements, and intercession of the saints

remind me when martin luther nailed the "ninety-five these on pagan beliefs"
I meant fundamentalists.

The Church's own website addresses these issues, and of course denies that any of their teachings are "pagan".
Is Catholicism Pagan? (http://www.catholic.com/library/Is_Catholicism_Pagan.asp)

Glorification of "Mother Mary" is a type of idolatry. Treating a woman as something worthwhile is actually a better idea than many of their other teachings on the subject. Their involvement in funding the arts during the Renaissance was a good thing as well, despite the religious aspects of the works they commissioned.

[Psycho4Bud]

saints are very important in that we belive as all people in heaven look out for us that is why its common to hear catholics praying to saints like saint anthony, michael the archangel, raphael the healer and such

It was always a big deal about naming boys with Saints names. My dad didn't have one until he was taken in for his baptism.......the way the story was told to me from my grandfather the priest looked at my dad and said that his name is now Patrick! LOL...so now the ol' man has two middle names.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[jdmarcus59]

I had sereval issues with my local priests and after a convorsation with the arch-bishop I decided that the catholic church had long ago lost sight of the purpose behind religion and allowed it to take a backseat into world polotics

now I am an undecided person i'm giving myself time to think and learn about many different religions and see which one would be the best for me, or if I even want to be religous

jesus never called any man to be religous.:)

[Quincyboy]

I meant fundamentalists.

The Church's own website addresses these issues, and of course denies that any of their teachings are "pagan".
Is Catholicism Pagan? (http://www.catholic.com/library/Is_Catholicism_Pagan.asp)

Glorification of "Mother Mary" is a type of idolatry. Treating a woman as something worthwhile is actually a better idea than many of their other teachings on the subject. Their involvement in funding the arts during the Renaissance was a good thing as well, despite the religious aspects of the works they commissioned.

sorry for the misunderstanding

and the glorification of mary is NOT idolatry, praying to mary is the same thing as praying to the saint we dont ask them for divine help we ask them to pray for divine help for us

and i've yet to find any belief or practice that can be considered pagan

[PureEvil760]

Heres a question, why do catholics follow pre-set doctrines when Jesus himself followed nothing accept his own inner guidance? Why don't cathlics recognize that anyone can be like Jesus and such talk would probably looked upon as completely wrong? He said it himself, "You can be just like me."

[Quincyboy]

Heres a question, why do catholics follow pre-set doctrines when Jesus himself followed nothing accept his own inner guidance? Why don't cathlics recognize that anyone can be like Jesus and such talk would probably looked upon as completely wrong? He said it himself, "You can be just like me."

because we can't be like him, he is the son of God fully human fully divine we can only learn from his teachings and follow his word and what passage from the new testament are you quoting?

[SeaWeed005]

where are the twelve tribes ?
and who are they now?

[medmj<3er]

Has anybody ever read any Joseph Campbell? I'm thinking specifically of you, Quincy, because you seem like you'd enjoy him. Try Hero With a Thousand Faces or especially The Power of Myth. He does a wonderful job of showing how the stories that are important to us as humans show up again and again and again, in religion and folklore and mythology, and Catholicism (as I'm sure you know) both consciously subsumed elements of popular pagan religions and organically, unconsciously mirrored much older elements in the development of its canon. If you don't like reading, he did The Power of Myth as a PBS miniseries too! Fun for all! :O)