Who likes numbers?

[davejohnwright]

Alright I've been researching, brain storming, tokin', and drinkin', trying to figure out how to put my lighting system to it's optimum use. I'm working with a 1,000w HPS system. Thats with a MH conversion bulb, and eye hortilux HPS bulb
I've figured the numbers with 3 possible garden sizes 4x4, 4x5, 5x5. I'll start with the brightest.

4'x4' area=16 square feet or 62watts/ square foot
HPS=9,062 Lumens/ square foot
MH =6,562 Lumens/ square foot

4'x5' area=20 square feet or 50watts/ square foot
HPS=7,250 Lumens/ square foot
MH =5,250 Lumens/ square foot

5'x5' area=25 square feet or 40watts/ square foot
HPS=5,800 Lumens/ square foot
MH= 4,200 Lumens/ square foot

With some research I found a thread at marijuana.com that was saying the lumens to keep a plant growing was
Minimum about2,000 Lumens/ square foot
Mid-range about 5,000 Lumens/ square foot
Optimum about 7,000-7,500 Lumens/ square foot or higher
SOURCE= Lamp Lumen Data - Page 2 - The Garden's Cure (http://www.gardenscure.com/420/lighting-reference/42932-lamp-lumen-data-2.html)

I know I've seen a thread discussing how much light is too much, but I cant find it, anybnody?
I'm thinking of going with the 4'x4' area to get the most intensity out of the lighting system but 6,562 Lumens for veg, and 9,062 Lumens for flower seems like I may be pushing too much light. But this may be suitable considering I want some big mother fuckin' (4'-6') plants, of the highest quality possible.

Also I'm thinking of going with Mandala's Kalichakra, and/or White satin. And I will be using organic soil. Probably a 2-3 month veg to get them nice and big.

Anyone have any thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?
peace

[stinkyattic]

You are a bit more sophisticated than some of us, lol....
I just go by the 50 watts of HID per square foot, and use the best bulbs I can find to squeeze out a couple more lumens.
I'm happily running 1400w HPS in a 5x6 space.

Your issue is going to be DISTRIBUTION, since you want big ass honkin' bitches. If I wanted to grow that style, I would switch to 4 vertical-burning HPS600s in parabolic reflectors. ATM my plants are under a single 1000 and a 400 (when they first enter the flower room), and they have to be bent over short to take advantage of the light. With multiple points of light, you get the luxury of side lighting to your big bushes.
Just some thoughts. I think BlueBear- who was growing BIG plants- was running parabolics.

[rhizome]

Well, issues w/ light distribution and airflow...

If I were running a whole bunch of cuttings, I'd probabley go w/ the 4x4, because I'd know that I had plenty of overhead room for stuff like carbon filters, oscillating fans, etc. I'd be able to cram all that crap up over the reflector and still know that I'd be able to keep the reflector high enough over the plants to keep the distribution pattern sort of even-ish.

Doing smaller #'s of larger plants- you're gonna get tight on room by the time you hit flower set. Going to the 5x5 does cost you some intensity, but it buys you a whole bunch of room, allowing a certain amount of relected sidelight off the walls.

Also, you have to balance things on a total room yeild basis.

Let's say (purely for conjecture) that intensity and yield per square foot are directly ( 1 to 1) correlated. Let's also say, ( and I am making these #s up) that your cultivar of choice will produce 1 oz dry per square foot @ 9,062 Lumens/ square foot. Your 4x4 will produce a lb. ( 16sq'x1oz)

At 7,250 Lumens/ square foot, ( 80% of above) each square foot will produce .8 oz, assuming a 1 to 1 relationship. Your 4x5 will produce a pound (20 sq'x.8oz)

In the 5x5, the plants are receiving 65% the intensity of the 4x4. If we follow our admittedly-all-made-up formula, each sq' will produce .64 oz. Your 5x5 will produce , oddly enough, a pound. ( 25sq' x.64oz).

I love linear relationships. They're so...symmetrical...

So a lot of it comes down to personal management issues, grow style, cultivar chosen, etc. It's a lot easier to manage environmentals in 200 cubic foot room (5x5x8) than it is in a 128 cf room(4x4x8). Larger spaces are more tolerant of mistakes, easier to work in, etc.

It sounds like you're not that familiar w/ the genetics that you'll be running. I'd definately go for the larger space- It really bites to realize that you timed things just right to peg the room at 70% stretch, but the plants are gonna do 140%.

I like a k per 4x4 if you're running say, 4 of them in an 8x8 room, but cramming one into a 4x4 presents management issues. Make it easy on yourself- go a little big.

[khronik]

Well, Mandala's catalog recommends 400 watts per square meter for Kalichakra. That works out to about 37 watts per square foot, which is pretty close to what 5' x 5' would give you. If you want really huge plants, the limiting factor often seems to be soil quantity rather than light. Do you have any 10-gallon planters? Trash cans maybe?

[PharmaCan]

DJW - Check out this thread - Sealed Room 3lbs/light (http://boards.cannabis.com/growroom-setup/31194-sealed-room-3lbs/light.html). He's got the same light concentration as you are contemplating - except he's doing an 8'x8' area. This isn't exactly the same kind of grow you are talking about, but Tranoble seems to have his shit dialed in pretty tight and you might get some good ideas from the thread.

PC :thumbsup:

[davejohnwright]

Alright I slept on it, and I'm thinking I should start the veg cycle in the 4x5, or 5x5 since there will be more plants before I weed out the males, and they may not like the intensity so much at that age.

For the flower cycle I'm thinking I should keep 4 plants in a 4x4 area, or a 4x5
depending on if space becomes an issue, and if needed I can LST/ supercrop to use all available space/ keep them from overgrowing the garden. Vertical space is no issue since I have 12' of head room in the spot I have picked out.

Your right Rhizome I am unfamiliar with Mandalas genetics. I have read wonderful things about them though, and they are the cheapest seeds I've seen anywhere on the net, so I think they deserve the opportunity to prove themselves in my garden. I may have jumped the gun when I stated a 2-3 month veg cycle, if Mandalas seeds are anywhere near as good as I've heard it wont take that long at all.

I've still got plenty of time to figure out what I'm gonna do. I'm patiently waiting for the summer heat to die down before setting my garden back up. Plus my lady has been on my ass to grow her some mushrooms, so I'll start/ finish that project first, even though i myself am immune to psilocybin.

[rhizome]

Vertical space is no issue since I have 12' of head room in the spot I have picked out.





Nice.


W/ that kinda headroom, have you thought about going to a parabolic? Go 6x6 no prob, give ya 3x3 per tree.

[PharmaCan]

Nice.


W/ that kinda headroom, have you thought about going to a parabolic?

Can you explain why you said this. (Real question, not argument - it's sometimes hard to tell these days. :D)

PC:smokin:

[davejohnwright]

Can you explain why you said this. (Real question, not argument - it's sometimes hard to tell these days. :D)

PC:smokin:
I dont understand either. I figure my rectangular air cooled hood would work nice to give me a square garden. Parabolic would give me a round garden, if I'm not mistaken. And my geometry is too rusty to figure those numbers. lol

[davejohnwright]

Hey pharmacan the link you gave isnt working. I seem to remember seeing that thread before, but am having trouble locating it.

[PharmaCan]

Here ya go again.

http://boards.cannabis.com/growroom-setup/31194-sealed-room-3lbs-light.html (http://boards.cannabis.com/growroom-setup/31194-sealed-room-3lbs-light.html)

I just went to that page and copied the url. I hope I haven't forgotten how to copy and paste. That wouldn't be a good sign. :wtf:

PC :smokin:

[khronik]

I wonder why this is sticky? A moderator mistake maybe?

[rhizome]

The parabolics give a very even distribution of light over a larger area. I've found that they give a better pattern over large plants, as the light is reflected downward at a greater distance from the bulb. Works nicely over large plants, as long as you can keep the reflector a couple of feet over the crop.

Feel like I should do some cool diagram in Paint, but I don't have the chops.

I didn't notice that your hood was cooled- so you like to fly it in pretty close? Doing large plants, I've always found that things worked best if I flew the reflector a little high, to keep the plants from shading each other- but you need headroom.

I have no idea why this is sticky.

[oldsanclem]

Rhiz is right on the even light of a parbolic works like a charm.
Take any photogram and darken a print and you will see the flat spots and hot spots of box parking light devices. :(
I always love things how they work and bla blabs (that just talking and no data to back it up] :(
I have used parabolics for a few decades and average 0.468 grams per watt day in year out. In a plant them in buckets chop to fit, bloom to harvest. :D
scrog is to much work and I grow with a computer and lazy.
grams / watts/months
if you have 1000 grams finished using 1000 watts / harvest every 2 months its 0.5 g/w/m:thumbsup:
You must add months as you could grow a plant for 2 years and bloom for 4 weeks and get one hell of a number. :wtf:
"grow for effecency , the fun comes at harvest" SanClem:Tomcat:

[davejohnwright]

The parabolics give a very even distribution of light over a larger area. I've found that they give a better pattern over large plants, as the light is reflected downward at a greater distance from the bulb. Works nicely over large plants, as long as you can keep the reflector a couple of feet over the crop.

Feel like I should do some cool diagram in Paint, but I don't have the chops.

I didn't notice that your hood was cooled- so you like to fly it in pretty close? Doing large plants, I've always found that things worked best if I flew the reflector a little high, to keep the plants from shading each other- but you need headroom.

I have no idea why this is sticky.

I keep the light a good couple feet from the top of the canopy, I've experienced a problem on my first grow with the colas bleaching out on me, sucks when you lose the best part of the plant. Plus yeah I dont want them shading each other out.

And as for it being sticky, I have no idea, but it sure has been an interesting thread so far, I'm sure many people can learn a thing or two from it.

[Weedhound]

Go with a cool tube if you want to eliminate shady spots for growing. IF you have a way to deal with the heat and cooling.

[...gas...]

very interseting , i am running 2 x 400 watt over 2 plant s in a space 1.8m length by 1m wide by 2.2 m height , temp s a perfect , ventalation is good , yeild is very good , in hydro , is that 2 much or 1 600 would do ? thanx 4 any help :thumbsup:

[extinctx11]

Just to throw this out there, I've read that lumen output also has to do with distance, so if you are assuming a certain number of watts or lumens per foot, you also need to take into account the distance of the lights at the time... a 250w light might only be 100w by the time its light gets to the plants if its too far... and visca versa.

There is also a coorolation with wattages, I noted my 250W actually pulls about 450Watts and my 400W HPS pulls about 700 Actual watts, so keep this in mind when planning breakers and fuses etc...

[davejohnwright]

Go with a cool tube if you want to eliminate shady spots for growing. IF you have a way to deal with the heat and cooling.
The worry of shading is that I want my plants big, and I want to minimize the lack of light on the lower branches, not too big of a worry since big plants equal big colas, and as we all know they are the best part. But I dont mind smoking lower buds, so I want some of them too. I'm mostly just trying to figure out the most efficient way to work with my light mathematically, it's not working too well though. I should get a light meter, but I'm poor, so I'll probably end up doing like I always do and follow my intuition.
peace

[davejohnwright]

Just to throw this out there, I've read that lumen output also has to do with distance, so if you are assuming a certain number of watts or lumens per foot, you also need to take into account the distance of the lights at the time... a 250w light might only be 100w by the time its light gets to the plants if its too far... and visca versa.

There is also a coorolation with wattages, I noted my 250W actually pulls about 450Watts and my 400W HPS pulls about 700 Actual watts, so keep this in mind when planning breakers and fuses etc...

I started this thread thinking about the lumen decrease due to distance http://boards.cannabis.com/advanced-techniques/123243-anyone-have-formula.html . But the only way to figure out how many lumens are where is with a light meter it seems.
And I know about how decieving the wattage of light you use is compared to the power it uses, but thanks anyways.
peace

[bejay]

the 4 by 4 area would be the most efficient use of your light as there is less square feet to cover and it will have more light reflected back to the plants wich will result in better growth there is no need to figure the lumens at different distances as the 4 by 4 room will always have the most lumens than the 4 by 5 or 5 by 5 when compared at same distance from the light.
while you may be able to get the same yield out of a larger space you are either using more plants to fill the extra space or you are using a longer veg time to fill the extra space.
you might also consider using co2 to increase your yield and once again the lumens per sq ft become important the plants in a 4 by 4 room would be able to utilize more co2 simply because they are receiving more lumens.

[davejohnwright]

I am planning on adding CO2, nothing special or expensive, I'm planing on using many bucket loads of water, sugar, and yeast. I know it wont reach optimum CO2 levels with this set up, but something is better than nothing. I will do this mainly because I cannot vent outside. I will however open the door and refresh the air in the grow area a few times / day.

[oldsanclem]

GRAMS/WATTS/MONTHS
That is the basic $$$$$$
1000 grams , 1000 watts in 2 months produce 0.05 gwm:thumbsup::thumbsup::pimp:
I have gotten 3.5 pounds of one 1000 watt MH bulb NO big deal it took 3.25 months.
Given the right size room and strain I would bet I could get 6 pounds, but time is not on my side.
If your doing it for fun and unlimited amount of money and time. Have fun reguardless of the cost.
Now a fool and his/her money soon shall be departed. P.T. Barnem

[davejohnwright]

GRAMS/WATTS/MONTHS
That is the basic $$$$$$
1000 grams , 1000 watts in 2 months produce 0.05 gwm:thumbsup::thumbsup::pimp:
I have gotten 3.5 pounds of one 1000 watt MH bulb NO big deal it took 3.25 months.
Given the right size room and strain I would bet I could get 6 pounds, but time is not on my side.
If your doing it for fun and unlimited amount of money and time. Have fun reguardless of the cost.
Now a fool and his/her money soon shall be departed. P.T. Barnem

Quantity dosent mean much to me, Quality is key. I would only need 3.5lbs if I were planning to sell any, I'm gonna smoke it, and share with my friends.
And my finances are far from unlimited, I live a ghetto lifestyle, just doin my best with what I can get my hands on, it works. Otherwise shit, I'd have it hooked up!

But I have come to a decision on my grow. I will be growing monster plants! I will use my 1000w HPS w/ MH conversion bulb for veg. I plan on getting some high wattage CFL's to provide light to the lower portions of the plants. CO2 buckets (water, sugar yeast), a good fan to keep the air moving, top soil/ FFOF soil/ perlite/ a touch of vermiculite/ diatomacious earth/ a variety of guano/ And 7/8" drain rock from the landscape supply used in whatever fashion I put it together in. And let's not forget love attention, and careful research, the most important tools.
I figure I'll wait for fall so I dont have high temperatures getting in the way, It's gonna take me a lllooonnnnggg time to veg. I want this to last me a very long time so I'm gonna train em' well! I'll probably supercrop a couple of em', LST the others to get optimum results.
I still cant decide well enough on a strain to place an order for seeds. Maybee I'll order a few very different strains, choose the best of each for keeping, pull the rest.
The street market in WA sucks monkey balls!!!! I crave good pot, and lots of it!!!!! Some things you just gotta do yourself, ya know. :hippy:
peace

[bongerstonerd00d]

Here are charts on lighting you may find helpful.

Metal Halide
http://boards.cannabis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67008&d=1148162259

H.P.S.
http://boards.cannabis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67062&d=1148175556

Growing and sharing with friends is a great way to get busted if you let them know you are growing. People talk.......ya know ?



b0nger


P.S. Clem, you prefer parabolic, huh ?

[davejohnwright]

Here are charts on lighting you may find helpful.

Metal Halide
http://boards.cannabis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67008&d=1148162259

H.P.S.
http://boards.cannabis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67062&d=1148175556

Growing and sharing with friends is a great way to get busted if you let them know you are growing. People talk.......ya know ?



b0nger


P.S. Clem, you prefer parabolic, huh ?
You know I actually have both of those charts on my computer, but thaks you for reposting them, they took some searching to find the first time.

Also I have a total of 3 friends in this state, I brought them with me when I moved, we lived together in the woods for 6 months, and for the years after that we have lived very near by each other. Normally I would agree with you on not letting friends know, but these friends are the rare type that a person can actually trust, we've been through alot, and they did'nt narc me out of rip me off on any of my other grows. So it's cool. Besides I have personally seen too it that they know their rights, and what bullshit the cops will pull to try to get a person to give up thier rights.

I do appriciate the advice though, I've told the same thing to many others.
peace

[ismokealldaylong420]

im not saying less light is any better but this articale that i just got done reading in hightimes jorge cerventas grow guide i may make a thread of this later but i dunno its called yeild of dreams it says this guy james is says hid lights couse lots of heat and with that heat come lots of problems in a growers space temps should be around 75 during day and no less than 55 during night he has came up with the following he has he says this way yields two times as much with less light he uses he uses 10 hps lamps he messed with numerous different light patterns light regimes ect ect and found that the zig-zag way is best he switches 5 of the lights on 2 hours then the other set so each set of lights are on 2 hour intervals and that way he cuts his bill down by half and this is wear it gets very interesting in order for this system to work properly you need 4 lamps his first grow yielded 9.3 pounds around 70% of his last crop as he started to get the hang of this light regime yields started to climb in a diff grow op from two ladies they do the same light regime that james does there grow was perfect till it cought a virus and they were forced to harvest 110 healthy plants two weeks early only 7 weeks into flowering when dried and cureed there yeild was 4.8 pounds givven the total amount of wattage(600 watt hps) they harvested roughly 0.7 grams to the watt for every 30 days of flowering everyone knows the bechmark is 0.5 grams per watt each 30 days it goes on to say this was a major improvement there next crop yielded 3.1 kilos of dank from 150 plants 0.7 grams for each watt for 30 days of flowering(1.4grams for actuall time flowered) however the yield was low becouse they didnt grow the clones long enough these polish dudes are currently using this light regime and getting 1.6 grams per watt for every 8 weeks of flowering if you want to get full deatails of this you should go to hightimes or get the mga

[oldsanclem]

That is great for a scrog system, the best I have ever seen was /is 0.6 g/w/m Getting 0.7 g/w/m is one hell of a imporovement. Scrog is the only way to go, but the damn plant count is the killer, in the U.S.A. FYI a plant can be 10 ft tall or a leaf with a root, been there done that. Once again that is extreemly good job of growing and may try it with a new system. With automation its real easy, to pull it off. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[mushaboom]

this may just be me, but its really hard to read without punctuation... :)

[bmwboy713]

i think the question was what is too much light? i've used 6-1000 watt hps lamps over a 4x8 before in a SOG grow before and had really good results. No staging, just straight 12/12 18,000 lumens per square foot. But you have to remeber plants can only use as much light as they have available co2, they can only use as much co2 as they have nutrient, they can only use as much nutrient as the root have available air etc. everything needs to be in proportion, you can raise one w/o raising the rest to achieve the best results.

[buyahalan]

Alright I've been researching, brain storming, tokin', and drinkin', trying to figure out how to put my lighting system to it's optimum use. I'm working with a 1,000w HPS system. Thats with a MH conversion bulb, and eye hortilux HPS bulb
I've figured the numbers with 3 possible garden sizes 4x4, 4x5, 5x5. I'll start with the brightest.

4'x4' area=16 square feet or 62watts/ square foot
HPS=9,062 Lumens/ square foot
MH =6,562 Lumens/ square foot

4'x5' area=20 square feet or 50watts/ square foot
HPS=7,250 Lumens/ square foot
MH =5,250 Lumens/ square foot

5'x5' area=25 square feet or 40watts/ square foot
HPS=5,800 Lumens/ square foot
MH= 4,200 Lumens/ square foot

With some research I found a thread at marijuana.com that was saying the lumens to keep a plant growing was
Minimum about2,000 Lumens/ square foot
Mid-range about 5,000 Lumens/ square foot
Optimum about 7,000-7,500 Lumens/ square foot or higher
SOURCE= Lamp Lumen Data - Page 2 - The Garden's Cure (http://www.gardenscure.com/420/lighting-reference/42932-lamp-lumen-data-2.html)

I know I've seen a thread discussing how much light is too much, but I cant find it, anybnody?
I'm thinking of going with the 4'x4' area to get the most intensity out of the lighting system but 6,562 Lumens for veg, and 9,062 Lumens for flower seems like I may be pushing too much light. But this may be suitable considering I want some big mother fuckin' (4'-6') plants, of the highest quality possible.

Also I'm thinking of going with Mandala's Kalichakra, and/or White satin. And I will be using organic soil. Probably a 2-3 month veg to get them nice and big.

Anyone have any thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?
peace
So can you figure what's the best setup if you used a LED's Lights setup? Lumen, Kelvin and the PAR value to get the optimum results. In Hawaii we got Night Helicopters marking homes for a Heat signature? They wake you so early? before 5am so I figured if I can get from the Med MJ program I should do all right but I forgot about theives.

So I'm going to China to have them make me a Perfect grow Light? LED for ever

[GreenLeaf420]

So can you figure what's the best setup if you used a LED's Lights setup? Lumen, Kelvin and the PAR value to get the optimum results. In Hawaii we got Night Helicopters marking homes for a Heat signature? They wake you so early? before 5am so I figured if I can get from the Med MJ program I should do all right but I forgot about theives.

So I'm going to China to have them make me a Perfect grow Light? LED for ever

In 2001 the US LAW was changed were they can not use In-fared to get a warrant.

The Patriot Act Throws that all out the window if they want to bust that out. I do not think thee are a lot of Talbans in Hawaii

[Puffzter]

I started this thread thinking about the lumen decrease due to distance http://boards.cannabis.com/advanced-techniques/123243-anyone-have-formula.html . But the only way to figure out how many lumens are where is with a light meter it seems.
And I know about how decieving the wattage of light you use is compared to the power it uses, but thanks anyways.
peace

Well light loss per range to source is not difficult to calculate.
It goes down exponentially and that means double the range cost your lumens to decrease to a 1/4. Exactly.
However that does not take into acount leaves that shade or other distortions and reflections etc. But from light source to top of the plants it is perfectly accurate and a basic physical fact of nature. Same thing with drag by the way ;) was a racedriver before. Double the speed = quadruple the drag.

Interesting thread by the way man. And ye I am very much into numbers, statistics and calculations myself.

Peace

Puffzter

[frostymcfailure]

the patriot act is a complete violation of constitutional rights. Also ensures people can not sue FDA & pharmaceutical companies in regards to certain vaccinations linking to autism.

[CovertCarpenter]

...but I'd have to say that 4x4' or 4x5' could be lit by a 600w, going 1000w seems like wonderful, glorious overkill :) I assume that you're using the MH for vegging and the HPS once you flip it over to flowering... Use a rectangular reflector if you can... should light the space more evenly, though ymmv.

And can't remember exactly where I heard it, but something like 7,000 lumens/sq.ft is good, 10,000/sq.ft. optimal, and anything over 14,000/sq.ft. theoretically 'too much', but if bmwboy713 was pushing 18,000 and making it work, well, /wow/... I hope you were wearin' sunglasses while working on that killa show, mon!

[hcmake]

I know for plant biology that the ammount of light can be too much for certain plants. Good example is Melissa officinalis. Too much light changes the color of the plant to purple :D wich is cool thought. Grows natural and green if kept behind a window but turns purple already under 21W 6500K CFL(1300 lumens/lux).(tested this myself)

But for cannabis being grown naturally in deserts near the equador. High concentration of light would also need high concentration of other components needed for fotosynthesis?

If i had a laboratory i would be runing tests for diffrent combinations of light+nutrients+Co2+dark time.

Natural co2 levels are around 300 ppm ? and natural light is
10,000â??25,000 lux Full daylight (not direct sun)[2]
32,000â??130,000 lux Direct sunlight
(copied from wikipedia)

lets say we want to simulate best outdoor conditions inside we would need atleast
25000-35 000 lumens per square feet of plants.
We would need to match the nutrient usage at this intense light levels correct?
Lets keep in mind that man made light does not match the full spectrum of light gained from the suns rays.

So maby just maby only one type wavelenght of light could be too much if high enough concentration right ? can anyone confirm this ?

[TANKJR]

Hi all....I'm new here but experienced grower and I have about the same size room/closet. I have a 4wx6dX8h foot closet, 400W HPS and 400W Sunlux for flowering. I have attempted to multiply the light by adding 6 large mirrors. It seems to have worked! I may/may not have 4 AK47s, (had 6, but 4 fill the closet to capacity) now in 1st week of flowering after about 90 days of veggin. They are about 4 foot in 2gal containers in MG soil. I have them staked and am trimming for a (hopeful!) mega yield (saw pics and desc from an Ed Rosenthal book) I won't be posting pics prolly, and I'm not exactly sure what defines a monster plant, but these are some thick bushy stinky babies...yes, I call a four footer a baby! They've been fed MG with every watering. Bottom line is they are very, very healthy, so get bz planting and good luck! The longer you think about it the bigger they coulda been!

[Erinbla]

My question is I have some 20-20-20plant food can I use it during the veg and flower?
And how old does my plant need to be for me to start it

[malus69]

I know for plant biology that the ammount of light can be too much for certain plants. Good example is Melissa officinalis. Too much light changes the color of the plant to purple :D wich is cool thought. Grows natural and green if kept behind a window but turns purple already under 21W 6500K CFL(1300 lumens/lux).(tested this myself)

But for cannabis being grown naturally in deserts near the equador. High concentration of light would also need high concentration of other components needed for fotosynthesis?

If i had a laboratory i would be runing tests for diffrent combinations of light+nutrients+Co2+dark time.

Natural co2 levels are around 300 ppm ? and natural light is
10,000â??25,000 lux Full daylight (not direct sun)[2]
32,000â??130,000 lux Direct sunlight
(copied from wikipedia)

lets say we want to simulate best outdoor conditions inside we would need atleast
25000-35 000 lumens per square feet of plants.
We would need to match the nutrient usage at this intense light levels correct?
Lets keep in mind that man made light does not match the full spectrum of light gained from the suns rays.

So maby just maby only one type wavelenght of light could be too much if high enough concentration right ? can anyone confirm this ?

I'm very interested in this concept too and I would love some input on this matter.

Here are charts on lighting you may find helpful.

Metal Halide
Cannabis Forums Message Boards - Medical Marijuana, Cannabis Club, Dispensary, News (http://boards.cannabis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67008&d=1148162259)

H.P.S.
Cannabis Forums Message Boards - Medical Marijuana, Cannabis Club, Dispensary, News (http://boards.cannabis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67062&d=1148175556)

Growing and sharing with friends is a great way to get busted if you let them know you are growing. People talk.......ya know ?



b0nger


P.S. Clem, you prefer parabolic, huh ?

I have both those charts printed out hanging in the notes board of my grow room lol. What I would like to know though is if there is an actual mathematical formula based on wattage and lumen output of the bulb. Cause my 400W HPS aggro has an output of 58k lumens compared to the 53k this chart suggests! :thumbsup:

[BamaGrower]

I would go with the 4x5 and then supplement with 2 t5 8 bulb of the 2ft variety. get the bulbs that are made for the flowering stage and orient them vertically on the 2 longest sides of the garden. this will give the unlit portions of the garden a huge boost and help you to have buds that all mature at the same time. this is assuming that you dont mind coming up with the 300-400 bux for the t5's. I am running a 600hid with a dual spec bulb and a t5 2ft and the undergrowth areas are growing like crazy. there are very few spots that do not get direct light and i try to rotate the plants by hand every day or every other day about 180 degrees. as soon as i can im gonna pick up a 4ft t5. ppl tend to underestimate the power of t5 bulbs.