What to do with these moms?

[TestPilot]

Looking to get a few sick moms (SAGE x Sour, AK48 and others) ready to clone and then toss. At five feet they were:

- Rootbound in 1 gal containers
- Never flushed in their lives
- Had a bad mite infestation.
- Showing severe zinc def, among others

The mites are under control with a combo of pythrethrin bombs, NPS, neem, daily water baths and 85-90% RH. I've heard a few things on what temp....cool or hot? It's set to 70F right now.

They were flushed yesterday with 7.0 water at 1ppm, runoff testing at 900-1200ppm. After 3 gal each it's now under 100ppm.

I think ideally they should go back on a regular veg regimen until healthy (maybe 2-2-1 of GH), flush again and use a flower regimen for a week before cutting. I'm toying with the idea of trying to bring them back with a flowering nute in order to reduce time to cutting. Any immediate objections? Need to act soon as the zinc def is really showing since the flush.

They got a foliar of 300ppm of Tiger Bloom/CalMag+ pH'ed to 6.6 an hour before lights-on today to hold them over.

There is GH 3-part, Tiger Bloom and CalMag+ to work with. They were on 1200ppm of Grow Big before I saw them.

So that's the situation. Any suggestions?

[TestPilot]

Ended up going with a 0-1-1 GH 3-part (and 0.5 of CM+). Will go to 0-1-2 next watering prior to cutting.

Any suggestions?

[stinkyattic]

I think repotting into 5 gallon pails of fresh soil would be a good idea.
Throw them under a halide as soon as the new growht looks like it is improving, and give them a grow fert for a couple feedings, then switch to a bloom fert for a few days before cutting, like you had planned.
I just got 7 moms in similar shape- better tended, but certainly root bound and showing the associated signs of def and stress. That's what I'm doing for them, but my foliar is the GH micro mixed weak, and my ferts are conucopia bloom with added fish emulsion for vegging. So far they are looking promising.

[TestPilot]

I was trying to avoid transplanting since these will be retired as soon as clones have rooted.

[stinkyattic]

Retired as in, flowered out (outdoors even?) or retired as in shredded and put in the burn pile? Flower those biztatches, G! Nothing so pretty as a retired mom in full flower.

[TestPilot]

Just got back from a vacation. The person watching them did not feed (not sure if they even watered), so I'm trying to get my thoughts together on what to do next.

stinkyattic, these are going to be composted when the clones root. They look a little too scraggly for my liking. I really don't like working in someone elses mess. I would much rather start clean.

The def. problems are looking more pronounced..which could be from lack of feeding or it could be that I misdiagnosed the problem(s) in the first place.

- New growth shows interveinal chlorosis, rosetting, some grey/purple on several leaf tip/edges. Some tips curl up, some curl down, many are fine. Purple petioles and slightly (but increasing) purple stems moving from top down.
- Much of the older growth is unaffected, several fan leaves yellowed and dropped since I left...but they were also bone dry and drooping when I returned. Some tips curl down, but the majority are normal.

I went to an 0-1-2-1 of GH and CM+ yesterday. We'll see how they respond.

The rosetting/chlorosis is a textbook example of a zinc def, but they're showing signs of nitrogen and sulfer def also.

[stinkyattic]

They are severely rootbound I'll bet, and no amount of flsuhing or foliar feeding is going to give you teh results you want. Rootbound can lead -WILL lead- to a whole slew of nutrient uptake problems. IF the new growth looks bad, you're in trouble. Get them into big pots of fresh soil NOW and let them get healthy before attempting cuttings. Success rates for cuttings off a sick plant are tragic.

[TestPilot]

No doubt they are rootbound. I just didn't want to transplant if it can be avoided. I have some 5 gals I can put them in this afternoon.

[johneg]

My Mates mums r 2 years old and looking a bit ropey! They are in giant pots allready.I read that u should take them out,cut a bit off the roots then repot in same pots with new medium around the edges??What do you think stinky??

[TestPilot]

Why not replace them with clones?

[stinkyattic]

If they are just getting to the ropey look, but not showing other problems, I'd just regenerate with a fresh set of clones, and flower the moms in 5, 0r even 10 gallon pots if you can find any.
This is what I do. Whenever I do a run of clones, I take extras, so that I can keep the most vigorous cuttings and turn them into new mothers who can in turn donate cuttings within the month, and I train them out to give a short, wide canopy that exposes the most nodes to light (=lots of cuttings in a short time).
Personally I don't keep moms past the point where they are too big to flower in a 3-5 gallon container. I prefer moms to live in a quart container, or for a strain I run a LOT of, a gallon pot.
The reason behind this is that first off, were I ever to need to get the fuck outta Dodge, I could cram the bitches into a rubbermaid tote, toss them in the trunk, an get them to safety. Losing genetics is tragic. I have had to do this before. You CAN'T do it with a big mother for obvious reasons!
Second, I'm running too many strains to keep huge moms. They each get about a square foot of floor space, lol, and have to deal with it!
Third, prepping a smaller mother for cuttings is EASY!!! The cycle is: Feed with grow fert (high N) until vigorous new shoots are observed. Switch to a bloom fert+ superthrive to load up on P and thiamine for rooting (one week before taking cuts). Take cuts. FLUSH. REpeat.
The flushing step is a bitch if your moms are in giant homes.

[johneg]

Stinkyattic.You no ur shit undoubtedly!! But my friend has a colliseum! he needs 150 clones every 4 weeks,he fills half the colli at a time and crops every 4 weeks hes in the process of repotting clones but to replace the old ones but will take a few months.So cutting the roots,good or bad?

[stinkyattic]

I've no experience with root-pruning but know that bonsai artists use the technique. I think you should google it because I'm not sure what precautions to take.
If you want to go a simpler route, I'd buy a bottle of Cannazyme and use that. It frees up the nutrients bound up in old, dead root matter within the soil and buys a lot of time. It also effectively gives a bit of space. I use it on my Christmas cactus and they like it too.
Just a bit of caution, after applying Cannazyme, CUT BACK on your nutrients because there will be extra in the soil!!!
I still think that your moms need to be regenerated. My friend has a commercial-sized grow and also needs high numbers of clones on a tight schedule, but he keeps a bunch of mothers that are no more than 3' high and replaces them when they look scraggly. Having extra moms allows for a failed run of clones, and more time for the mothers to recover or get big enoug to use.

[johneg]

Thanks!He don use soil tho,perlite n vermiculite,Rockwool,Pebbles,Hes trying various mediums,should do same job tho.n then jus flush..yes??
P.S Sorry to hijack ur thread Testpilot!! Superthrive is good!

[stinkyattic]

I think this isn't really a hijack since you are in the same situation really.

Yeah cannazyme should work in any medium... maybe Rhizome will stop by with hints.

I don't really like the idea of keeping mothers in a soilless mix personally, but if your friend's experience is in hydro, more power to him for keeping them happy there!!! Even my friend who runs a big aero system keeps dirt moms.

[johneg]

thanks!