If God does not exist answer me this

[AtmanWalter]

Why is it that things are rather than are not. That is to say why are we here as opposed to not? If you are a beliver of the Big Bang, what caused the point of singularity to 'bang' into the existence we know it as we do.

Now Im not a Christian Catholic are Jew but Id like to quote somthing IV read about Moses. When God spoke to Moses and gave him the 10 comandment Moses askd God what his name is so that he could tell the vilagers or whoever who spoke to him, and God said 'I AM THAT I AM'.

[fauxsho]

We will never know...

[AtmanWalter]

Why do you say that?

[beachguy in thongs]

If we still are, and we were, how do we know God's language? We created our own, and nobody saw him watching. The big bang was a contraction of energy. God must be the universe. He was the big bang.

[AtmanWalter]

I am of the same mind that God is the universe and every single aspect of it from material to organic to psycological and byond it and I find it a little confusing how people can deny Gods existence, hence why I made the post.

PS. I doubt God has a 'language' perse. God must have some way of comunication but I doubt based upon a dialect, rather possible some sort of quantum exhange of information, but this is besides the point.

[couch-potato]

That is like asking what is outside of our universe. We just don't know yet. Humanity will find the answers... to any naysayers, consider this. During the Dark Ages, the average person (peasant) would not comprehend a computer. But look at humans now - using computers every damn day. It will take time for us to understand the universe and it's origins.

[Spoken Word]

During the Dark Ages, the average person (peasant) would not comprehend a computer. But look at humans now - using computers every damn day. It will take time for us to understand the universe and it's origins.
Computers are man-made. Easy for human to dominate.


We just don't know yet.as for my answer

[BlAzInIt4:20]

i think this is called religious scientist(or something like this), its a religion that believes in energy, and the world as god. as everything around them are god. that god is not a man but everything living. They do not worship one man, but they warship his energy and his spirit in all living things.

My grandmother is like this and i had to go to church with her when i was a little girl for YEARS omg i barely go now.. but sometimes i go back when i feel like everything has gone bad and i need a more positive environment with a warm feelings.

[meloncoly]

it's a stupid question. you're implying there has to be a religious type god with a beard because something must have been our original existance, you can call this god if you want, but you make it sound like a guy created the stuff that became the big bang

[cacayjunasian]

I am of the same mind that God is the universe and every single aspect of it from material to organic to psycological and byond it and I find it a little confusing how people can deny Gods existence, hence why I made the post.

i find it more confusing that people can accept that god exists that easily.

[beachguy in thongs]

1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.

There are three definitions of God that you can't deny.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Same old song.


"How can a universe exist without a creator? It can't!"


"How can a creator even more inredible than the universe exist without a creator? Well it just can!"


Thus we have the most important doctrine; if you don't have an answer yet, god did it!

[sonic titan]

Who or what came before god? If god was the creator, who created him?

[Delta9 UK]

Who or what came before god? If god was the creator, who created him?

and this is why there is most likely, no god... not as we know it

I don't however have a problem with an advanced species creating our Universe - just for the hell of it. If that's god then we can all be happy :thumbsup:

[Pass That Shit]

Why is it that things are rather than are not. That is to say why are we here as opposed to not? If you are a beliver of the Big Bang, what caused the point of singularity to 'bang' into the existence we know it as we do.

Now Im not a Christian Catholic are Jew but Id like to quote somthing IV read about Moses. When God spoke to Moses and gave him the 10 comandment Moses askd God what his name is so that he could tell the vilagers or whoever who spoke to him, and God said 'I AM THAT I AM'.

You touch on a scripture that shows that Jesus is the God of Moses. There is no more jew or gentile, we are all one.

Exod 3 (OLD TESTAMENT)
"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

John 8 (NEW TESTAMENT)
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

[AtmanWalter]

it's a stupid question. you're implying there has to be a religious type god with a beard because something must have been our original existance, you can call this god if you want, but you make it sound like a guy created the stuff that became the big bang

If you noticed i made sure that i did not once use the word he when describing God for that exact reason. All that Im saying is that things are. I dont believe that science came say why this is, they can at the moment say everything came from the big bang then in the future say where that came from and where the cause of that came from into infinity but they wont ever why things are rather than are not. This I believe is a question each person has to ask themselves, or let a religious man tell them.

[BoilerUp]

The big bang, and our universe, is the cause of two parallel dimensions colliding with another. We are the fragments of that collision.

It's been proven in theory; String theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Theory)

I don't understand the obsession that the world has with God. Lets say that despite what we know in science about how vast existence is, that there really is a god. Why would he care about us so much? It's proven that there has to be life on other planets (It was just proven that Mars did, and still has water on it). Why would he bother to send us Jesus in the first place, when there are probably more advanced species out there besides us.

I really think God is not only an excuse to explain what we don't know, but to enforce that we are the most important species ever, when that is certainly not true.

[onequestion]

I believe that god doesn't exist. I think that the human mind cannot possibly comprehend the real reason for everything. Just try to make something up. Anything you try to make up will not make sense for one simple reason. Time. No matter what you say there will always be the question, well what came before that? This leads me to believe that time must be an illusion or else the universe is impossible. I can also delve into how history is basically already predetermined to explain some things. Tell me if you want to hear but i dont want to bore anybody.

[Pass That Shit]

"This leads me to believe that time must be an illusion or else the universe is impossible."

We live inside of time. God made the clock so he lives outside of it. Without the lights that are in the sky (hanging clock), I don't know how we would keep track of time. If the sun never went down, how would we keep track of time? It will be ONE long day.
A day without clouds and plenty of sunshine. So in the future, time will be a thing of the past.

[Oh My High]

If you are a beliver of the Big Bang, what caused the point of singularity to 'bang' into the existence we know it as we do.Loop Quantum Gravity (http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2007/07/01/what-happened-before-the-big-bang/)

(It's a tentative answer, one which needs further refinement and verification, but is a groundbreaking one which blows "creationism" out of the water. Finally, for once, science has a mathematical framework what happened before the Big Bang and what caused the Bang. The universe exploded from a collapsed universe. It "bounced". The idea itself isn't new but "Using this new math, something amazing happens: at T=0, the volume of the Universe is not zero, and the density is not infinite. In other words, the math still works, even at The Big Moment.")

[AtmanWalter]

Great post Oh My High very intresting but again it does not answer why things are rather than are not. Thats the main question of the thread, i guess all that other bullshit i put in there threw people off. 'Why would he care about us so much?' ( quote from Boiler Up ) You are ascribing human charicteristics to God, you enen call God "he". God is not outside of us nor is God inside the only place you can find God if you ask me is in the fact that things are rather than are not.

[mfqr]

Why is it that things are rather than are not. That is to say why are we here as opposed to not? If you are a beliver of the Big Bang, what caused the point of singularity to 'bang' into the existence we know it as we do.

Now Im not a Christian Catholic are Jew but Id like to quote somthing IV read about Moses. When God spoke to Moses and gave him the 10 comandment Moses askd God what his name is so that he could tell the vilagers or whoever who spoke to him, and God said 'I AM THAT I AM'.

That's why you say "if you are a believer in the Big Bang," because it's a belief. It's a hypothesis... we just don't know. But there is definitely more plausible evidence pointing towards God not being in existence. I'm not trying to put anyone down who does believe in God, though. I'm just saying, you cannot argue legitimately for God, because there is absolutely no evidence that shows his existence, except for the Bible, which was man-made... so the Bible itself cannot be used as an argument to prove his existence either! So in other words, it's just a belief.

Now, personally, I am agnostic. I don't care if he does or does not exist... and I will not completely deny his existence either. Why? Because I think he could exist. But I would also say that more evidence points to science, and not faith.

But I will point you to this link: Arguments Against Christianity (http://humanknowledge.net/Philosophy/Metaphysics/Theology/Christianity.html)

[AtmanWalter]

Can we forget i mentioned the big bang or the bible, i fucked up. But if there was no God why is there things to study and beings to study them. The fact is that there is an objective world and a subjective world both intimatly related. This relation to me is God. But Im asking you science buffs I guess to give me your answer to the question Why is it that things are rather than are not. My perposal is if God did not exist ( Lets get this straight im not talking about any god in specific, espealy not the christian one ) there would be nothing no big bang and no ensitine so descover it ( yes i know enstine did not discover it but i hope you get the point)

[GraziLovesMary]

*Sigh*.... And here I go again getting tumbled into another one of these...

Before we begin I suggest we drop all preconceived notions on what you think God is. The simplest and most scientifically feasible answer is that God is energy. All energy in the universe, detectable and undetectable by us. So you can see how using the word "God" can confuse an argument as the word conjures up any one of the following images:
1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.

The main word that irks me when describing "God" is "being." We are beings, we are entities. That which is "God" is simply the universe. We are part of this as well.

AtmanWalter, I am going to attempt to answer your question now... You want to know why things ARE as opposed to are NOT. Well what you need to understand is that those two concepts are RELATIVE. They are relative to perception, and the perceiver. What I mean by this, is that if something is beautiful to you, it is beautiful because you perceived it to be so. Another person might perceive it to be not so beautiful. Now, I know you are referring to the tangible aspect of the universe as opposed to human opinion of tangible aspects, and Im getting to that.

What you need to understand is that we(and by we, I refer to all creatures on Earth) exist in the tangible dimensions of the universe, more specifically the first 3. Pure energy exists on a far wider dimensional spectrum and has a completely different set of qualities that define what IS or ISNT. This is something that we as humans cant seem to comprehend yet.

Things exist for us, in your words they ARE, because they are comprised of matter, and matter is energy that is condensed and specialized. So when energy coallesces to a specified purpose to the point that it is then able to exist in the 3 basic dimensions that we tangible creatures can comprehend, it then becomes perceiveable to us and thus IS. So remember that just because you perceive that something ISNT... doesnt mean it truly isnt.

[greenlemon]

In the beggining, things weren't, things came to be, as a consequence of many things that were not things before being things, for those things were something else. :D

[Oh My High]

Great post Oh My High very intresting but again it does not answer why things are rather than are not.
As the original link suggests, and as suggested by others such as Stephen Weinberg and Michael Shermer, we are winners in a cosmic lottery. The "finely-tuned" universe and our "finely-tuned" position in the cosmos is simply by chance as, as the speculation goes, there were many universes with different laws of physics, different values necessary for life, and seems "finely-tuned" only insomuchas it's the way things turned out (the post hoc fallacy). Granted, of course, this is only speculation but there is the wonderful little gem called the educated guess. ;)

Science may never have the final answer of "why THIS way rather than THAT" but it's better than invoking god, which certainly doesn't answer anything ("Why THIS god rather than THAT").

[ncnavguy]

The universe is a loop, alway expanding to its limit then compressing back into a singularity. Questions of how it all started are moot its has always been going on. If there is an Overbeing, then they are not bound by our petty perspecitve of time. Imagine if you stood outside of time, all at once
Everything is currently happening
Everything has already happnen
Everything is yet to happen
This would be the nesscary point of view of the creator of the universe, so when is not so important as it relates to why, but rather the essence of the act.

[AtmanWalter]

Ill make my proposition of ARE a little more clear, there is the physical reality im talking about of couse but what hasnt come up to now is the subjective ARE. There are objective things to be percived such as the universe or a beautiful woman and there are subjective things doing the seeing and perciving. Lets say you take out the universe or all the objective things about it or as you call it 'the tangible dimensions of the universe' what would happen to the subjective thing ( id like to call it the human spirit ) would it then percive nothing?, according to my interpertation of what you said it ( the subjective thing ) would still be able to percive the higher energy which you talk about, well lets hypotheticly take that away as well for the sake of argument. So now we have Nothing to be percived all that is left is the subjective which without an objective isnt realy a subjective, it aswell is nothing. So we can conclude that subject and obejct are codependnet. ( id perform the same logical experiement in the reverse but dont wana fill too much space :P) So the fact of our 'world' is that there are things to be seen and seers to see them and a relation between the two making them codependent. So walter what the hell does this bullshit have to do with God?! We cant find God by scientific objectivism, we certainly cant find God through blind faith to a religion, and we cant find God only through individual perspective. Where we can find God if you ask me is in the relation of subject and object, the relation of the objective tool of science and the subjective seeker. With no one to use science there is no science, thus disproving that science is all.

Id like to hear more about your energy thing tho, what are the higher ones you alude to?

[onequestion]

The universe is a loop, alway expanding to its limit then compressing back into a singularity. Questions of how it all started are moot its has always been going on. If there is an Overbeing, then they are not bound by our petty perspecitve of time. Imagine if you stood outside of time, all at once
Everything is currently happening
Everything has already happnen
Everything is yet to happen
This would be the nesscary point of view of the creator of the universe, so when is not so important as it relates to why, but rather the essence of the act.

My point exactly. We can not know how it all began because no matter what, our little human brains will not be able to comprehend it. Its like teaching a dog calculus. Also, i think it would be better to view time as not time but as another coordinate. Like when you say meet me at the intersection of 5th street and 10th avenue at 3pm. The 3pm is just another coordinate. Its hard to explain but i remember i read some stuff on time travel a couple of years ago and it explains it pretty well. There was also some stuff that i cant remember right now about howif you are at a higher altitude time actually goes by faster.

[AtmanWalter]

I think what im trying to do with this thread is say that science isnt the end all. It could be called a map of the world, but lets not forget about the map maker for he too is equaly important, not more not less, equaly.

[ncnavguy]

Physicists, and Taoist before them, would say that there are two worlds:

Manifestations (All Matter)
Mystery (Energy)

Energy can never be destroyed but only changes forms. Sound suspiciously like cultures definition of the spirit ehh. Nothing can exist w/o energy of some sort in the universe, yet energy must have a mass to attach itself to. The main split from the western religion's definition is that if you consider energy the "spirit" the universe, you would then have to accept that rocks have spirits,birds have spirits,heathens have spirits, as all these carbon forms contain some form of energy.

[AtmanWalter]

Which is exactly what I accept/belive, so now we have Manifestation (All Matter) and Mystery (Energy) but we also have their interlation and that is where my definition of God lies, where the two become one. Im pretty sure in most eatern philosophies and religions that is called non-duality.

[Oneironaut]

Why is it that things are rather than are not.
Why do you assume that in the absence of a higher intelligence, the universe would end up not existing instead of existing? What would cause the universe to prefer non-existence to existence?


That is to say why are we here as opposed to not? If you are a beliver of the Big Bang, what caused the point of singularity to 'bang' into the existence we know it as we do.
Quite frankly, I don't know why existence exists, and neither do you. I've thought about the possibilities, but without any good evidence all I can really do is speculate.

Let me ask you this. Why does God exist instead of not exist? What caused God to come into existence? Did he just create himself? If God can create himself, why can't a universe create itself? It seems that if anything is going to spontaneously pop into existence, a simple singularity is a lot more easy to believe than an extremely complex intelligent being.

As far as I can tell, the only way intelligence arises in the universe is over millions and millions of years of natural selection creating complex nervous systems. Complex systems like intelligent beings require explanations for how that complexity arose, and with living beings we have an explanation. With God we do not. It seems implausible that an extremely complex intelligence would just pop out of nowhere for no apparent reason.

A few things to consider when thinking about the reason why the universe exists instead of not existing:

1) The total energy in the universe is zero. When you add up all the energy forces in the universe, they exactly cancel each other out, such that we do not need to break the laws of conservation of matter or energy to explain the existence of matter and energy.

2) On the quantum level, pairs of particles are spontaneously creating themselves and then spontaneously annihilating themselves all the time everywhere. In rare cases these pairs of particles can be ripped apart by some force in the split second before they annihilate each other, which is why we know they're there. Is a God required to explain the creation of each and every one of these particles? If not, why is a God required to explain the singularity at the beginning of the universe?

3) If the universe did not exist, we would not be here to ask these questions. The very fact that we are capable of asking questions means that we live in a universe that is capable of evolving complex conscious beings. If there are an infinite number of universes, then logically every possible thing must exist somewhere. Since life forms are possible combinations of particles, they will exist in some subset of those universes, and we inhabit one of them. And really, there is no reason to suppose that having no universes would be a more likely scenario than having an infinite number of universes without a God to create everything.

4) If you don't know the answer to something, for example the question "Why does the universe exist?", you have to admit that you don't know. You can't just make up an answer and say you're right just because nobody else has been able to prove any other theory to be correct. You have to come up with evidence for your God theory, too.

Now Im not a Christian Catholic are Jew but Id like to quote somthing IV read about Moses. When God spoke to Moses and gave him the 10 comandment Moses askd God what his name is so that he could tell the vilagers or whoever who spoke to him, and God said 'I AM THAT I AM'.
What's your evidence that Moses even existed? I have yet to see any.

[Polymirize]

I think what im trying to do with this thread is say that science isnt the end all. It could be called a map of the world, but lets not forget about the map maker for he too is equaly important, not more not less, equaly.

fair enough I suppose. I don't see science (rightly understood) as claiming to have all the answers, or sometimes even any answers. Science is a method of progression through questioning. And God is an answer. God is just a justification to stop exploring, learning, and growing.

[AtmanWalter]

Well lets get this straight i never assumed God was only a higher inteligence.

'Why does God exist instead of not exist? What caused God to come into existence? Did he just create himself? If God can create himself, why can't a universe create itself?' The universe is one aspect of God so like God is self creating. God to me is not a higher inteligence only but he all of existence from matter to life to psychological and beyond. Now the nature of this self creating im not sure of. But I think there is somthing in us as human beings that has been there since the big bang and hte creation of our univers that is on its way to self realizing. May I ask your thoughts on what is evolving and where is it going? Does it have a destination or is it random?

Again I apologize for my refrence to the big bang in my opening statments, its a completly differnt conversation.

Im not citing moses as a scientific reference nor do i take the bible to be fact, nor have i read the damn thing. I just thought it was a kool saying.

[AtmanWalter]

May I add that God is probly the most intricate and complicated and misunderstood word in all languages because it has no objective proffs. The only way to understand it is to ask your self what is God. I mean the words existed as long as man almost so it must ahve some reality to it, a very subjective and even personalized one if you ask me.

[GraziLovesMary]

The big bang, and our universe, is the cause of two parallel dimensions colliding with another. We are the fragments of that collision.

It's been proven in theory; String theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Theory)


I really hope everybody realizes that this statement is an oxymoron. BoilerUp Im not trying to attack you but I strongly feel the need to point out first of all that String Theory is not by definition a theory. A theory has a defined outline and methodology that anybody can test and prove or disprove. String theorists have been trying to make the math work and then create a matching model that can coexist without error for over 50 years. There has been no major progress in string theory since the 70s. In fact I just attended a debate in Washington D.C. with Richard Krauss on that very subject a few months back.

The second thing I would like to mention is that anybody using Wikipedia as their only definitive source of information is setting themselves up for embarrassment. Yes, it has much useful information in there, and some of it is correct, but not all. It is the "online encyclopedia anybody can edit." Is that what you want at your back when you are spouting off self-truths??

String theory has some right ideas and its headed in the right direction compared with other things, but string theorists are too obsessed with the math and forget to think about the model.

[Adrenaline Rush]

GOD does exist. If you believe there's evil, then you have to believe there's good.

[GraziLovesMary]

Ill make my proposition of ARE a little more clear, there is the physical reality im talking about of couse but what hasnt come up to now is the subjective ARE. There are objective things to be percived such as the universe or a beautiful woman and there are subjective things doing the seeing and perciving. Lets say you take out the universe or all the objective things about it or as you call it 'the tangible dimensions of the universe' what would happen to the subjective thing ( id like to call it the human spirit ) would it then percive nothing?, according to my interpertation of what you said it ( the subjective thing ) would still be able to percive the higher energy which you talk about, well lets hypotheticly take that away as well for the sake of argument. So now we have Nothing to be percived all that is left is the subjective which without an objective isnt realy a subjective, it aswell is nothing. So we can conclude that subject and obejct are codependnet. ( id perform the same logical experiement in the reverse but dont wana fill too much space :P) So the fact of our 'world' is that there are things to be seen and seers to see them and a relation between the two making them codependent. So walter what the hell does this bullshit have to do with God?! We cant find God by scientific objectivism, we certainly cant find God through blind faith to a religion, and we cant find God only through individual perspective. Where we can find God if you ask me is in the relation of subject and object, the relation of the objective tool of science and the subjective seeker. With no one to use science there is no science, thus disproving that science is all.

Id like to hear more about your energy thing tho, what are the higher ones you alude to?

Here ya go... (http://boards.cannabis.com/spirituality/120735-what-your-version-truth.html) this is a thread I started a while back to post my current view on how things might be.

To address your paragraph, I would have to agree with you at this juncture that subjective and objective are codependant. To remove all objective events in the universe leaving only subjective would create a completely different universe, though, with a completely different set of rules. Maybe there are dimensions where this exists, however, and it can be somehow be perceived in ways we cant fathom. Im not quite sure, but its an interesting thought. And I would also like to add that I agree with you that science is not all. By ANY means. There is Science, and there is faith. By faith Im not referring to religion or spirituality, but simply faith. Faith that we are here walking around on this planet doing the things that we are wondering if we are really doing or not.

[GraziLovesMary]

GOD does exist. If you believe there's evil, then you have to believe there's good.

Good and evil are opinions. They are relative to the observer. What you view is evil I might not. There can be no universal constant for good and evil.

[MajMike]

I would say that murder is universally recognized as evil by all mankind (I omit self-defense or war). Do you not agree?

[GraziLovesMary]

I would say that murder is universally recognized as evil by all mankind (I omit self-defense or war). Do you not agree?

Murder is another term that is relative and instead of there being a fine line, it is bordered by a hazy gray area.

I disagree that murder is universally recognized as evil by all mankind, however. What Hitler did was not just murder.. it was genocide. Yet he believed it was the right thing to do, that he was doing the world a favor.

I personally would label that "evil" without a seconds hesitation, but there are neo-nazis and white supremacists worldwide that would repeat the process if they could.

Serial Killers murder people without remorse simply because it fascinates them, they dont view it as evil even though you or I would.


If you were to ask me to define "evil" I would say:

Evil is the absence of all love and compassion. An evil act would be one completely devoid of any love, compassion or empathy for the target of the act.

So instead of evil being a "thing" it is more of a "void." Thats one perspective at least.

[cheeto]

GraziLovesMary (http://boards.cannabis.com/../members/grazilovesmary.html), that was the most eloquent and poetic way i have seen that explanation given, you're good...

[GraziLovesMary]

Thanks man it just kinda came to me after many years of having it on the cerebral backburner. Eloquation is somewhat of a hobby of mine, as is poetry and music. They are all inexorably connected.

[cheeto]

i can understand your love of eloquence, i'm a writer, preferably as profession-

poetry is quite enjoyable to write as well. :)

[GraziLovesMary]

Yeah I started reading when I was three and just went crazy with it. My college english papers usually took me about an hour to write. No outline, and the first draft was the final one. I was never corrected on any of them either. I used to write my ex's papers too lol. I wrote a 10 page expose on the effects of Cocaine use on the human body, especially on teenagers, in full medical format for her nursing final. Took me a day lol.

[cheeto]

i hate people like you :wtf:

makes me look bad, stop being so good at writing!!!
lol

(jks)

[GraziLovesMary]

hahaha thats the cool thing about writing, its mostly done in private so unless the writer talks about it nobody knows how long it took him :p

[cheeto]

lol

[MajMike]

That anything other than Hydrogen exists in our Universe is the ultimate example of evolution, the very atoms that make up our bodies have lived through several generations of star birth and death.

I am a Christian, but I believe that evolution is simply a natural law used by God in the process of creation. To deny it's role in the grand scheme of things is ridiculous, and only makes one seem intractably ignorant.

[AtmanWalter]

I agree with you MajMike. Why is it the people seem to think they must choose either science OR religious faith? Make your own version of faith and tie it in with your own scientific beleifs. thats all anything in your mind realy is anyways, just a belief.

[RobinG]

the world is flat... well that's what they used to think , based on the best available evidence. What the scientific community perceive at any moment in time is based on the tools available to science at that point, and the language available to express that perception. Then, sooner or later, something comes along to blow that perception out of the water, the old rules are suddenly seen to be flawed or inadequate. All of which probably means that we will never know, at least not in our current state of existence, whatever that is.

[AtmanWalter]

Ever changing our beleifs and perceptions

[MajMike]

That constant changing of our beliefs and perceptions is our personal evolution, and on a macro scale the societal evolution we see taking place before our eyes both here in North America and (through CNN and the web) in the rest of the world.

The only constant is change, adapt or die.

[imitator]

I agree with you MajMike. Why is it the people seem to think they must choose either science OR religious faith? Make your own version of faith and tie it in with your own scientific beleifs. thats all anything in your mind realy is anyways, just a belief.

I dont think the majority of the people here responding are using the idea that only one or the other can exist.

The problem lies in the fact that you ask how we got here if God didnt put us here, which would be a valid question if you werent using a non proven dependant as the basis for your question.

You have no proof that God exists. God could very well be an idea in your head, or a magical little leprechun, or any other number of things. We have no proof, you have no proof, no proof has been brought to the light of mankind to prove God's existance, or lack thereof.

As a wise cartoon character voiced by Samuel L Jackson once said...

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."

Granted yes it does work both ways in this situation, but I would imagine most people who take any real time to look into this age old question would realize this. There isnt an answer for or against God(s) or Big Bang theory.

Science does not claim to have any real facts. In essence, all we have are a bunch of things that we have noticed throughout our existance which have happened the same way since we started observing them.

Just because the floor underneath your bed has always been there for you to put your feet on when you get out of bed each morning doesnt mean it will be there tommorow. Most scientific "fact" exists only as long as it takes for our understanding of the matter to expand enough to allow us to see said "fact" more clearly.

The problem lies in one main thing IMO, that man has a hard time grasping the unknown. Man doesnt like not having the answers, and has been known throughout history to use what later on is viewed as false information to explain things that happen that they dont understand. These days we dont have too many God(s) of the Tide/Ocean, or of the Harvest, or any other number of things that existed in quite a few periods in human history.

We dont know what tommorow will show to us in regards to science and all the things that are being researched. Tommorow might show us the true existance of a(n) God, or it might be the same as yesterday. And when we have what we view as a "fact" its beyond most of us to comprehend that being fundamentally wrong, because if we knew why it was wrong, we wouldnt view it as a fact any longer. Just as the earth was flat, but is now round... just as the sun revolved around the earth, and now the earth revolves around the sun... just as gods controlled the tides, and now the moon and other various things do... We are constantly learning, constantly expanding our knowledge of the things around us, which allows us to constantly modify that which we had known before with new knowledge as it becomes available.

If you had mentioned the entire idea behind a computer to someone from the 1400's, they would believe that it was not possible, it was incomprehendable, or so I would imagine. Yet computers exist today. Hell, back in the 80's a certain prominent tech person stated that there would never be a need for more then a certain amount of RAM.. yet today we see computer programs that require 1-2gb of RAM. But just because they couldnt comprehend such things, doesnt mean they wont exist, it just means that it perhaps is beyond our reach with our currently intelligence and information.

"The only thing we can know for certain, is that we know nothing for certain..."

I have heard that quote from somewhere, but cant seem to find who to attribute it to from a quick google search. Most likely a prominent philosoper, although I could have just made it up and not realized. Either way, its point is pretty clear, and I think makes alot of sense, especially in relation to what is being discussed in this thread.

Ive rambled enough for now, and to think that im not even high... well, not THAT high anymore.

[AtmanWalter]

Ok God may not be a provable thing, but the word still exists. Perhaps instead of taking a scientific factual aproach to the word lets look inward for a personal subjective meaning for God. Iv got a belief that everything happens for a reason, that there Is Meaning. God is me proving to my self that there is reason. Heres an intresting thought as well, dont think of God as the Creator but rather as Creating. And not as a person because a person is only a part of the picture God would be the picture, photagrapher, frame and wall the pictures on, if you ask me :P.

[Vanderbiltave]

I think modern religion is like the greek and roman gods. The scientist had to some how explain to the common people why things like natural disasters and other natural things happened so they wouldnt freak out. And the odd greek stories were made so there was some type of code of conduct for the people to live by. I think that modern religion is just made up to explain why things happen because they didnt have the knowledge or technology to scientifcly explain things. The bible is a good book to read on how to life your live, but i prefer non-fiction. :jointsmile:

[AtmanWalter]

I think science is great, but i also believ in somthing beyond reason.

[bhouncy]

Why is it that things are rather than are not. That is to say why are we here as opposed to not? If you are a beliver of the Big Bang, what caused the point of singularity to 'bang' into the existence we know it as we do.

Now Im not a Christian Catholic are Jew but Id like to quote somthing IV read about Moses. When God spoke to Moses and gave him the 10 comandment Moses askd God what his name is so that he could tell the vilagers or whoever who spoke to him, and God said 'I AM THAT I AM'.

We might just be a dream that some spiritual energy is having. That is just one idea and it makes as much sense as the idea that there is a god. And as far as ideas go there are an infinite number of them. You could choose one. You could choose many. I choose to be agnostic. I have no idea what is going on other than what I sense both externally and internally. And all of that is the best guess my brain can make... maybe;)

[imitator]

I think science is great, but i also believ in somthing beyond reason.

The key thing is recognizing that it is a belief, and nothing more. Too many people seem to confuse beliefs with "facts" and truth.

You believe that there must be something beyond what we can see right now. Bob over there believes that this is it, what you see is what you get, nothing more nothing less.

Both of you are equally right, same as all shades inbetween are equally right. And by equally right I mean that neither side is wrong, because we have no means to prove either.

And ironically, at least to me, the only way to prove there is a God(s) is by use of science. Sure a shiny being popping up would convince some people, but others would want hard substantiated data. Which I think makes sense if you are truely religious and part of the Catholic/Christian faith. That whole making sure not to worship false gods and whatnot.

[imitator]

We might just be a dream that some spiritual energy is having. That is just one idea and it makes as much sense as the idea that there is a god. And as far as ideas go there are an infinite number of them. You could choose one. You could choose many. I choose to be agnostic. I have no idea what is going on other than what I sense both externally and internally. And all of that is the best guess my brain can make... maybe;)

I <3 the Dreamer's theory.

[PureEvil760]

We will never know...

...if we never try.

[PureEvil760]

If you have a negative connotation towards anyone or anything including yourself, there is no possible way you qualifiy to answer the question,"Is God real?"

[MajMike]

I just want to point out we are continuing a discussion older than civilization, and one which will continue as long as the species does.

"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible. St. Thomas Aquinas "

"The mind is its own place, and in itself, can make heaven of Hell, and a hell of Heaven. John Milton"

[AtmanWalter]

I like those quotes Maj. Try to think about God in this way ( im not saying this is the only way or even true ), its a totaly subjective word getting all of its meaning from the percivers inward meaning of it lacking any provable objective existence.

[imitator]

But the thing is, how do you honestly expect anyone in this world to fully understand YOUR inward meaning of god.

No one in this world will ever comprehend fully what you think and feel. The only thing available is your ability to communicate said things to us as best as possible.

Maybe you found God, have undeniable proof and everything else. But right now, what you speak of, and how you speak of it, is no differen then any of the other things that people have said in relation to God(s)/deities.

People have had this debate for century upon century upon century. The great philosophers of greek and roman times had these debates, people in all the well known era's in early european history have had them, not to mention countless people in modern time as well.

And the reason the question still remains, and people still debate it, is that there is no known way to prove or disprove the existance of a God(s).

And, technically, God isnt a subjective word. No religion that I have read about yet refers to it as such. God in any religion is a definable, non-subjective "being", that does not change based on who thinks about him. That is why religions have war against other religions... because each believes that their idea of God(s) is the correct one, that there is no subjectivity at all, and the other person is wrong, commiting what amounts to blasphamy, and should perish for their sins.

[beachguy in thongs]

This is what smoking weed is all about. God. You look inside yourself with a third-person perspective. You look at your God, no matter what way you look at it.

[AtmanWalter]

initator im not trying to be some mesiah and end the great philisophical question of all time, im just trying to share my view. And what your saying about God in religion is defineable, first lets draw the line between religion and spirituality. Religion is an organization that uses god for its own reasons, that are often corrupt. Spirituality is the faith in the religion that makes the organization possilbe, it is the belief in a god that can offten be conformed to a relgion. I personaly am not part of any religion but im a very spiritual person. What im saying is try to find your own meaning for God, if it requiers science and proff more power to you. But that is your own meaning for god. Another person may say God cannot be proven and that statement, like yours, is a reflection of their own belief of god. All objective statments, books, forum threads and so on about God are refelctions of the writers and sayers inner meaning of God.

[imitator]

The thing is though, those "religions" wouldnt exist without followers who prescribe to at least the majority of the beliefs of said religion.

Even in your own words, God is very definable, because you can tell us at least in part what God means to you, how it is for you. The fact that you can use anything to describe it means that it is definable.

But I understand what you are saying, and to a large extent I agree with you... but without disagreement and discourse and discussion, everything is so bland.

Never can really fully expand your knowledge and horizons if everyone always agree's with everyone on everything, or at least thats how I always look at it.

[AtmanWalter]

I like the argument :) , hence why i continue. It is true that God is definable, the definition is a reflection of the inner meaning. All inner qualites has exterior corrilates and vise versa.
'The thing is though, those "religions" wouldnt exist without followers who prescribe to at least the majority of the beliefs of said religion'
Yea but it seems most of the time that there are the masses and there are the leaders. The leaders usualy have goals and intentions that are hidden from the masses. And thus the leaders use the masses for those goals and intentions.

[hazetwostep]

boiler... i think string theory is a great theory and very well could prove more accurate than some current theories (relativity and quantum) but it is far from "proven" or even accepted by the larger scientific community

[slipknotpsycho]

if god DOES exist answer me this... why hasn't science even been able to ever think of explaining it or proving it?

we're alot closer to proving big bang and evolution then god...

[PureEvil760]

if god DOES exist answer me this... why hasn't science even been able to ever think of explaining it or proving it?

we're alot closer to proving big bang and evolution then god...

very few scientists have discovered that the application of God to science will enable the creation of technology far beyond what we have created thus far. btw i use the word god loosely to describe all spirituality because god is not just one entity it is everything real...ok it is one entity, but we are all that entity and the earth is that entiy, so it gets a little complicated.

[imitator]

very few scientists have discovered that the application of God to science will enable the creation of technology far beyond what we have created thus far. btw i use the word god loosely to describe all spirituality because god is not just one entity it is everything real...ok it is one entity, but we are all that entity and the earth is that entiy, so it gets a little complicated.

Very few? Care to name which ones have discovered this fabled information?

Anything, any information on this revelation that science will suddenly become so much better if people infused God into it.

Nevermind the fact that some religions state that science and the things it has discovered are all untrue, while others work so closely with theorietical physics and quantum mechanics that its not even funny.

And just living in general will enable us to create technology far beyond what we have created so far. Look at the leaps that were accomplished without any inclusion of God(s) in the past 100 years.

Not to mention, how do you apply something that is by all accounts completely random and unpredictable at best to an art that is based entirely on things being precise and predictable. Is this where whenever we find a problem with a theory or something, that we can now say .. "musta been god" instead of taking the time to try to discover what is causing the problem and resolving it? Can the String/M Theorists immediately validate everything they have been working on by taking the parts that dont add up and invoking the new god rule?

Belief has no place in science. Science has no place in belief. They work on two entirely different principles, and combining them will only make both near impossible to use.

[powair]

"This leads me to believe that time must be an illusion or else the universe is impossible."

We live inside of time. God made the clock so he lives outside of it. Without the lights that are in the sky (hanging clock), I don't know how we would keep track of time. If the sun never went down, how would we keep track of time? It will be ONE long day.
A day without clouds and plenty of sunshine. So in the future, time will be a thing of the past.

Here is a question:

If god created earthly time, and therefore transcends it, it would stand to reason that he knows all things, past, present, and future. So he knows which of us are "saved" and which of us are condemned before we are born. We would have virtually no free will. So for anyone who believes in this type of Christian god, and his bible, answer:

If god knows this, why would he even create a bible instructing us on how to be a good person and get into heaven? It would be utterly futile. He would already know.

[powair]

And to answer the original question of this thread, I will start by saying that the universe is infinite. If it is NOT infinite, that would imply that something exists outside of it. But the word "universe" includes all things in existence. So if anything did exist outside of the universe, it would also be part of the universe.

In an infinite expanse of space, time and matter, there is an infinite array of matter composition, combination, organization and placement. Some of these are inevitably going to BE in such a manner that they will produce what we all galaxies, solar systems, and our own ecosystem.

If there is any chance of something happening, no matter how infinitesimally slight, it will happen. Over and over and over, and infinite amount of times. We just happen to be the result of one particular occurrence that happened to produced viable, intelligent life.

[imitator]

Here is a question:

If god created earthly time, and therefore transcends it, it would stand to reason that he knows all things, past, present, and future. So he knows which of us are "saved" and which of us are condemned before we are born. We would have virtually no free will. So for anyone who believes in this type of Christian god, and his bible, answer:

If god knows this, why would he even create a bible instructing us on how to be a good person and get into heaven? It would be utterly futile. He would already know.

Making any effort to believe in God(s) would be futile, as if you were meant to believe, then it would be destined. Thats the bitch about predestination... it removes any need to have will to live and act... as if you were meant to do something, you will do it, wether you intended to or not.

[Pass That Shit]

Here is a question:

If god created earthly time, and therefore transcends it, it would stand to reason that he knows all things, past, present, and future. So he knows which of us are "saved" and which of us are condemned before we are born. We would have virtually no free will. So for anyone who believes in this type of Christian god, and his bible, answer:

If god knows this, why would he even create a bible instructing us on how to be a good person and get into heaven? It would be utterly futile. He would already know.

God would like everyone to come to the knowledge of the truth. He allows us to do what we want.
He's not controlling us, he knows what we're gonna do.

Are you saying that everything you do is an act of God?

[Hardcore Newbie]

Here is a question:

If god created earthly time, and therefore transcends it, it would stand to reason that he knows all things, past, present, and future. So he knows which of us are "saved" and which of us are condemned before we are born. We would have virtually no free will. So for anyone who believes in this type of Christian god, and his bible, answer:

If god knows this, why would he even create a bible instructing us on how to be a good person and get into heaven? It would be utterly futile. He would already know.
Not only that, but an all knowing god is incompatible with an all powerful god. God can either know everything, past present and future while being powerless to stop it, or he can be all powerful, changing time on a whim, while not having knowledge of what happens next.

[powair]

God would like everyone to come to the knowledge of the truth. He allows us to do what we want.
He's not controlling us, he knows what we're gonna do.

Are you saying that everything you do is an act of God?

If you read what I actually wrote, you will notice that I did not say god is controlling us. You did not even come close to a rational answer for my question.

[Pass That Shit]

If you read what I actually wrote, you will notice that I did not say god is controlling us. You did not even come close to a rational answer for my question.


If we don't have free will, then we're being controlled. It's one or the other.
Do you feel that you have free will?

[imitator]

If we don't have free will, then we're being controlled. It's one or the other.
Do you feel that you have free will?

What we feel would not be anything that could determine if we actually have free will. It could be possible that what you felt at that moment was predestined, you were predestined to feel that you did have free will even though in actuallity, you didnt.

[SpiralOfDivinity]

"A young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one imagination experiencing ourselves subjectively, that there is no such thing as death, and life is but a dream. Here's Tom with the weather." - Bill Hicks

[SpiralOfDivinity]

God = electricity/light?

"Humans originally evolved from simple organic molecules containing carbon. Energy from the sun, lightning, and earth's heat triggered chemical reactions to produce small organic molecules from substances present in the atmosphere. These molecules were organized by chance into complex organic molecules such as proteins, carbohydrates, and nucleic acids that are essential to life.
And proof of this comes from a famous experiment. two American scientists, Stanley Miller and Harold Urey, carried out an experiment in which they attempted to simulate early earth conditions according to evolutionists. They mixed water vapor with ammonia, methane, and hydrogen gases. They then sent an electric current that simulated lightning through the mixture. Then they cooled the mixture of gases, producing a liquid that simulated rain. After a week, they collected the liquid in a flask and analyzed the chemicals therein. They found that three amino acids (amino acids constitute the basic elements of proteins, which are the building blocks of living cells) were synthesized."

No idea who wrote that. ^

[powair]

God = electricity/light?

"Humans originally evolved from simple organic molecules containing carbon. Energy from the sun, lightning, and earth's heat triggered chemical reactions to produce small organic molecules from substances present in the atmosphere. These molecules were organized by chance into complex organic molecules such as proteins, carbohydrates, and nucleic acids that are essential to life.
And proof of this comes from a famous experiment. two American scientists, Stanley Miller and Harold Urey, carried out an experiment in which they attempted to simulate early earth conditions according to evolutionists. They mixed water vapor with ammonia, methane, and hydrogen gases. They then sent an electric current that simulated lightning through the mixture. Then they cooled the mixture of gases, producing a liquid that simulated rain. After a week, they collected the liquid in a flask and analyzed the chemicals therein. They found that three amino acids (amino acids constitute the basic elements of proteins, which are the building blocks of living cells) were synthesized."

No idea who wrote that. ^
I studied the Miller-Urey experiment extensively in a microbiology class I took. The study is not conclusive, since they were not able to further synthesize macromolecules, but it is extremely compelling evidence (in my opinion) that life could arise spontaneously.

There are 4 steps (modern science's best guess):

1. Synthesis of Organic Compounds on Early Earth - conditions on early earth were likely extremely hot, anaerobic, and the atmosphere was probably exceedingly thick with water vapour and nitrogen- and sulfur-based compounds, along with carbon dioxide, methane, ammonia, hydrogen gas. It has been postulated that it was also a reducing (electron-adding) environment, in which compounds were easily formed and broken apart. Organic compounds (such as the amino acids produced in the Miller-Urey experiment, and nucleotide-like molecules) could have formed from simple molecules using energy from the sun and lightning. It is also possible that they formed near deep-sea vents, areas rich in inorganic molecules and heat.

2. Abiotic Synthesis of Polymers - Researchers have produced amino acid polymers by dripping solutions of amino acids onto hot clay or sand. The polymers formed spontaneously. These human-synthesized polymers are not exactly proteins, but the process shows us that polymers can indeed form spontaneously, without the help of enzymes or ribosomes.

3. Formation of Protobionts - "Life is defined partly by two properties; accurate replication and metabolism" (Campbell & Reece). Nucleic acids and their building blocks were probably not present in earth's very early life. Nucleic acids compose DNA and RNA, which are essential for life and replication. Self-replicating molecules and a metabolism-like source of the building blocks must have appeared at the same time. Protobionts could meet these conditions; protobionts are abiotic molecules surrounded by a membrane, capable of maintaining an internal chemistry different from that of the surrounding environment. They also exhibit simple reproduction and metabolism. A close example of a protobiont are the membrane-bound droplets of lipids (oil) when added to water (simplest example). Some of these liposomes store energy in the form of action potential across a membrane, and thus exhibit excitability.

4. The Dawn of RNA - RNA most likely came before DNA. Cech and Altman found that RNA carries out a number of enzyme-like catalytic (instigating) functions. Cech called RNA catalysts ribozymes, some of which are capable of making complementary, short copies of RNA. Others can remove segments of themselves (splicing). With the formation of such RNA molecules came the first natural selection. RNA can form a multitude of different shapes and sizes, and thus has a genotype (nucleotide sequence) and phenotype (physical characteristics). Certain RNA strands are therefore better suited to replicate than others, thereby evolution begins to occur as the best adapted are the ones reproducing. A protobiont that contained RNA would certainly have the advantage. Later, RNA provided the template for DNA, which caused an explosion of diversification.

[Quincyboy]

congragulations you've stumbled upon the worlds most used argument

[Polymirize]

God = electricity/light?


If that was true, and god is everywhere, then why do I need an outlet to plug my computer into?

[MajMike]

How does knowing something will happen equal causation?

I 'know' that more Americans will die in Iraq before we get out of there (statistically a certainty), but I am not the cause of their deaths. (Wish I was the 'Decider' for a day ;)

Each of us can watch people's behaviour and with time make certain predictions, God just does so with certainty due to perfect understanding.

Even so, this does not mean He 'predestined' us to be saved or damned, He just knows His children well enough to see what will happen (imho).

Note: This debate has been raging since before the Council of Nicea, so I know that reasonable people can have differing opinions.

Peace.

[imitator]

How does knowing something will happen equal causation?

I 'know' that more Americans will die in Iraq before we get out of there (statistically a certainty), but I am not the cause of their deaths. (Wish I was the 'Decider' for a day ;)

Each of us can watch people's behaviour and with time make certain predictions, God just does so with certainty due to perfect understanding.

Even so, this does not mean He 'predestined' us to be saved or damned, He just knows His children well enough to see what will happen (imho).

Note: This debate has been raging since before the Council of Nicea, so I know that reasonable people can have differing opinions.

Peace.


But how can he "know" what we are going to do, unless its predestined.

You cant predict with certainty unless you already know the outcome. If you already know the outcome that means there is no other alternatives that could happen. If there is only one course of action for that one being in that one situation, then it had to have been predestined.

On the flip side, one could say that God(s) might know the general outcome of things, like the Iraq war example you mentioned, and that the paths leading up to those general outcomes are our own decisions. But even then, its a form of predestination, its just giving you a bit more of the illusion that you are in control.

[MajMike]

I still don't see how that constitutes God forcing one to make a certain decision, He simply knows what choices we will make with that free will.

I do agree that reasonable people can differ on this, especially with the semantics used in descriptions.

[bhouncy]

I don't know if there is a god but I love the look on christians faces when you say "FUCK GOD!"

[R-L-B BinGall Rec.]

im prob gonna get quite the heat from this one but here goes.
this is my oppinion and i dont say anyone els is wrong or to step on anyones toes, you just do as i do belive what you want!
god(s) only eksists becouse folks dont have anything good in there lives to hang on to.
he was created as the laws are today to get a savege world siviliced
some one (the creators) are layin in there graves laughing, thinkin this was not suposed to have happend
we have what 8-10 diff religions and all of them are different from one another all the cults ect ect how can enyone freely belive in takin there own lives becouse some god suposed to have told em to and not in words but with signs!?
if nothing good ever happends you create your own truth of things, if no one listens to what you have to say you create someone who does, so what is god a super version of your old friend from daycare, invisible sam and no one but you could see him!???
if folks belived more in themselfs we diddent need religion the root of every war on earth.....egeomet amice - I AM MY OWN MASTER and i belive fully in my self and what im capeble of dont need no make belive guy and if i did i would have a imagination to create my very own LOL

(just so you know my parents are roman chatolic so i had the choise)

[cannabis=freedom]

There's a driving force, that's for certain...I've felt it when I've been high, especially. However, I don't call that force "God" because I just tend to associate that with organized religion (which I believe is detrimental to each individual's own spiritual journey through life), so I usually refer to it as The Presence. Whoever says life is no accident is right; it's too amazing to be. The common idea of a "God" is too simple, though, I think. It's deeper; it's all around us; it's in us; we are it; it is nothing and everything, just like the universe. Which, now I think of it, I think it is.

[PureEvil760]

Very few? Care to name which ones have discovered this fabled information?

Anything, any information on this revelation that science will suddenly become so much better if people infused God into it.

Nevermind the fact that some religions state that science and the things it has discovered are all untrue, while others work so closely with theorietical physics and quantum mechanics that its not even funny.

And just living in general will enable us to create technology far beyond what we have created so far. Look at the leaps that were accomplished without any inclusion of God(s) in the past 100 years.

Not to mention, how do you apply something that is by all accounts completely random and unpredictable at best to an art that is based entirely on things being precise and predictable. Is this where whenever we find a problem with a theory or something, that we can now say .. "musta been god" instead of taking the time to try to discover what is causing the problem and resolving it? Can the String/M Theorists immediately validate everything they have been working on by taking the parts that dont add up and invoking the new god rule?

Belief has no place in science. Science has no place in belief. They work on two entirely different principles, and combining them will only make both near impossible to use.


The angel Kryon has indicated multiple possibly 100s of things about science that has come true after the fact. Kryon Book II pg 223. the question was raised what to do about radioactive waste, his responce "look to your biology" and in Kryon Book III pg 249 he says we will start to develop "bioremidation" using living organizmes to "eat" radioactive waste. these books were written in 1989 i believe.

In science news magazine over 10 years later there was an article ..heres a quote from it "..Exxon Corp. and DuPont are testing a variety of plants to see if they can do some of the dirty work of cleaning up such pollutants as radioactive material, lead, selenium, and oil. many plants, it turns out, have a taste for these stubborn contaminants"

Thats just one of..well alot..Kryon has been proven real multiple times and also has been invited to the United Nations many times. I dont like trying to prove sceptics wrong simply because I already know your wrong its just pointless work to me.

[PureEvil760]

Now that a sceptic said it it must be true!

[PureEvil760]

You guys are just clowns, you have been given a chance to discover truth and just throw it away like a piece of trash. It takes work, hard work..somthing which you know nothing of and you will get exactly what you diserve mark my words.

[imitator]

The angel Kryon has indicated multiple possibly 100s of things about science that has come true after the fact. Kryon Book II pg 223. the question was raised what to do about radioactive waste, his responce "look to your biology" and in Kryon Book III pg 249 he says we will start to develop "bioremidation" using living organizmes to "eat" radioactive waste. these books were written in 1989 i believe.

In science news magazine over 10 years later there was an article ..heres a quote from it "..Exxon Corp. and DuPont are testing a variety of plants to see if they can do some of the dirty work of cleaning up such pollutants as radioactive material, lead, selenium, and oil. many plants, it turns out, have a taste for these stubborn contaminants"

Thats just one of..well alot..Kryon has been proven real multiple times and also has been invited to the United Nations many times. I dont like trying to prove sceptics wrong simply because I already know your wrong its just pointless work to me.

You do realize that your "proof" lies in a man who seriously claims that angels spoke to him?

Amazing how so many people can scoff at religions such as mormanism, for the exact same things that are being used as solid logic later on.

Let us look at some of the other gems that this angel has given to the race of men...


Human bodies were altered around 100,000 years ago with the assistance of an advanced race from the Pleiades This explains why there is only one kind of Human Being, an evolutionary trait that not echoed in any other form of life which has massive variety. Scientific American commented that about 100,000 years ago there were at least 17 kinds of Humans in development, but only one emerged.


We were altered by aliens 100,000 years ago. For those wondering what Pleiades and Pleiadeans are...


Pleiadeans (also spelled Pleiadian or Plejaran) is the name given to what are said to be a group of extraterrestrials and "multidimensional spirit beings" from the Pleiades star cluster in the constellation of Taurus), approximately 400 light years from planet Earth. Their home planet is said to be called Erra, and various descriptions of their appearance have been given by those whom claim have been in contact with them.


Far fetched at the very best if we are very gracious in granting tall tales to be accepted anywhere near fact.


The Armageddon prophesied for the end of the last millennium could indeed have happened, but humanity has collectively chosen not to self-destruct, and is now entering the next phase of physical and spiritual evolution, for which any prophecy and prediction becomes nearly impossible.


So convienient... making sure that one doesnt have to deal with the pesky questions about the fate of mankind in the future. Also nice that they were able to tie up that loose end that some had about the world not ending back in 00.


The Universe is teeming with life, although Earth and humans have a special purpose.

This one seems to be in conflict with the majority of christianity as far as I can tell. Dont recall the bible mentioning anything like that, would think something that big would be mentioned, considering we are so self centered to have assumed, through the church no less, that the sun revolved around the earth.

I could go on, but I see no point...

Also, to address what seems to be an overcommon arguement tactic that needs to stop...


I dont like trying to prove sceptics wrong simply because I already know your wrong its just pointless work to me

Malarky. You do like it, hence why you are doing it. If it bothered you, or you truely didnt like "doing it", you wouldnt. There is no reason to. Unless of course what you are stating is untrue, and you do enjoy doing it.

This tactic is used alot, to try to sway the people reading the conversation, by the use of 3rd party exclusion. You make yourself seem disinterested, and uninvolved or unwilling to be in the conversation taking place. After having done so, and trying to show that you have no interest, you interject with comments in regards to it, all while trying ot maintain the idea that you arent involved. People are more likely to believe, or take the time to digest what a 3rd party is saying in regards to a conversation taking place, due to them not having any supposed bias in regards.

But as we have shown, you did have an interest, you are biased in the arguement, and you even go so far as to flat out state that others are wrong. Personally, when using an arguement so full of holes and "angels speaking to men about aliens altering the human race", id rather avoid putting off that kind of vibe, as it incites people to try to call you on your claim.

[imitator]

You guys are just clowns, you have been given a chance to discover truth and just throw it away like a piece of trash. It takes work, hard work..somthing which you know nothing of and you will get exactly what you diserve mark my words.


"You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt." - Zen and the Art of Motorcycle

Real mature response by the way. Its obvious that you have no intention of actually having a conversation or discussion, you merely wish to repeat your point over and over again with your fingers in your ears.

Grow up, learn how to have a conversation like an adult, and come back then. Until then there is no point speaking to you, you have no intention of actually listening.

I bet at this point right now you arent even reading what I say to see what I mean, but only to find a way to retort in some manner.

[FreeVenice]

Why is it that things are rather than are not. That is to say why are we here as opposed to not? If you are a beliver of the Big Bang, what caused the point of singularity to 'bang' into the existence we know it as we do.

Now Im not a Christian Catholic are Jew but Id like to quote somthing IV read about Moses. When God spoke to Moses and gave him the 10 comandment Moses askd God what his name is so that he could tell the vilagers or whoever who spoke to him, and God said 'I AM THAT I AM'.

It could of been many things that caused the big bang, but you only have one answer. How does that weigh out. . .

[YouAintKnow]

I believe in God and as for my thoughts on the big bang theory, its just that...a theory. Maybe God created the universe that way or maybe he did it with the snap of his fingers. My personal opinion is that we have to believe what we do by faith alone. And the only way to know would be to die, as I believe that it is to complex (or simple) that as a mortal it is impossible to comprehend.

[PureEvil760]

Real mature response by the way. Its obvious that you have no intention of actually having a conversation or discussion, you merely wish to repeat your point over and over again with your fingers in your ears.

Grow up, learn how to have a conversation like an adult, and come back then. Until then there is no point speaking to you, you have no intention of actually listening.

I bet at this point right now you arent even reading what I say to see what I mean, but only to find a way to retort in some manner.

boohoo..man Im alot more grown up than you. Nice job expressing your outright ignorance.
..by that I mean I have had a more realistic life experience thus far, while you just live in a fantasy world where you are King. I bow to your magnifisance oh great one.

[imitator]

boohoo..man Im alot more grown up than you. Nice job expressing your outright ignorance.

Thank you for proving my point.

[PureEvil760]

no problem, ill prove your foolishness anytime.

[imitator]

no problem, ill prove your foolishness anytime.

Its been a few years, how does it feel to be an ignorant teenager again? Still feel like you are on the top of the world? Like no one can fuck with you? That you are always right and the world is wrong?

Yeah, I miss being that ignorant sometimes... was fun until the real world kicked in.

[PureEvil760]

You really arn't getting to me..it seems like you think you are. 1st, no i dont feel like im at the top of the world, I'm suffering. 2, sure anyone can fuck with me if they have some brains, 3 haha i dont know whats right..but I do know whats wrong.

[onequestion]

How come god is rather than is not?

[PureEvil760]

you miss being somthing you are currently? how is that possible..its like I miss drinking water *takes sip of water

[imitator]

you miss being somthing you are currently? how is that possible..its like I miss drinking water *takes sip of water

Everything has a negative and a positive state. For something to exist, it has to have the ability to not exist. Otherwise, what determines that the state it is in is existance and not non existance?

[Krogith]

Everything has a negative and a positive state. For something to exist, it has to have the ability to not exist. Otherwise, what determines that the state it is in is existance and not non existance?


I have to say wow to the work you have done, to even try and start to follow his Tall Tell.

Very amusing.

[imitator]

..by that I mean I have had a more realistic life experience thus far, while you just live in a fantasy world where you are King. I bow to your magnifisance oh great one.

Missed this in the initial response since you edited it in.


See, this is where you got everything wrong. The only person trying to state that they KNOW how things are, is you. The only person telling others that they are wrong for their beliefs is YOU. The only person stating that their way is the only right way and anyone who doesnt see it that way are ignorant or worthless, is YOU.

Looking above, I think the problem so far, overwhelmingly, would have to be YOU. I know, I know, this is hard to believe considering you have experienced "enlightenment" and must be on a wavelength so beyond ours that our puny little brains cant comprehend it... but try this on for size.

Every person here has been able to back up or defend any viewpoint they have in some sort of intelligable manner. Except you. All you have been able to do thusfar has been state your viewpoint, and insult other people.

At this point in time, I dont even care if you are right or wrong, granted I didnt care much to begin with either. All I care about is slowly tearing apart your arguement until you stumble, which you will, and contradict yourself, at which point you will have zero credibility, if you had any to begin with.

Everyone here has given you plenty of chances to try to just explain what you are saying... be it because they didnt understand, or they wanted to understand, or they just wanted to hear a crazy story. You, time and time again, have refused to even begin to participate in a conversation with anyone about anything you say, and instead resort to school yard insults towards other peoples intelligence and life styles, while preporting superiority over us.

Im looking through some of the religious texts I have on hand at the moment. When I get back from getting baked with some friends, granted I remember, Ill go ahead and post the lines from your very own scripture that you so love to use in your defense, which flat out states that we shouldnt believe a word you say. And thats straight from the mouth of Jesus and God, according to you. So it has to be true.

[onequestion]

I'm pretty sure that purevil is just mad that he knows hes wrong.

[Hardcore Newbie]

I'm pretty sure that purevil is just mad that he knows hes wrong.
Actually I'm pretty sure he's not even aware of it.

[PureEvil760]

PureEvil you have resorted to tactics such as running from the discussion and just claiming your ideas to be correct with NO backing on several occasions, even downright attacking skeptics who want to keep up the debate longer than you can handle. How does that make you any more grown up anybody else here?

I posted last here 2 posts above yours, how am I "running away"..I just choose not to answer questions that already have been answered. This board is funny because its like we are trying to proove somthing that we know is real, and you are trying to dissprove somthing that your not even sure about. I wish to flip the discussion from "is god real?" to "is ego real?" once the latter question is answered correctly the first question will be as well.

[PureEvil760]

I'm pretty sure that purevil is just mad that he knows hes wrong.

I've chosen to fight 99% of the world, who have chosen darkness..but now I have realized that there is no point to fight fire with fire. Sure doing that will possibly cause confusion within a few people which is the general idea, but if I rise above the darkness for myself, I will be able to help all of you without you even consiously knowing about it. In choosing the light for myself I will have the ability to annihilate the ego of others, while continuing to weaken my own.

Sure I'm wrong, to everyone who is following everyone else. Society in general.

[PureEvil760]

Big bang never happend.
God always just was.
People seem to need a begining and an end, what if there was neither?

[bhouncy]

If we were not aware of our existance would we exist? Something is going on here that no one has a clue about. All this god nonsense is stopping us from finding out what's REALLY going on.

[PureEvil760]

Maybe the big bang never happened.
How does that prove god exists?

You did'nt ask to prove God is real, you just ask were it came from and I just said it always was just here. If you want proof, meditate every day for at least 2-5 hours per day..truth will come eventually.

[Coelho]

For those who believe in God, always there will be facts that prove it.
For those who dont believe in God, always there will be facts that prove it also.
What is real for someone is what someone believes.

For a more detailed explanation, just click the link below:


Click here ........................^^

[R-L-B BinGall Rec.]

For those who believe in God, always there will be facts that prove it.
For those who dont believe in God, always there will be facts that prove it also.:

wow back up there wheres the proff/facts that god eksists???
there are only old scripts and shit so they dont proff anything!
(who is to know if all thats written are not just fiction)

the only things in life we can know for shure eksists,
are the things we can see and hold in our hands...
and thats the only proff we need.

as for the longer version you wrote in your link...the cupple that said they saw a pic of mary i a jelly sandwich....if they never heard the storie of
her in ther bible or saw picks of here maby they wold have seen spiderman lol

MARY WAS ONLY A WIRGIN IF YOU DONT COUNT ANAL

[Coelho]

wow back up there wheres the proff/facts that god eksists???
there are only old scripts and shit so they dont proff anything!
(who is to know if all thats written are not just fiction)

Ask those who believe in God... im sure they will give you a lot of reasons and facts that prove so.


the only things in life we can know for shure eksists,
are the things we can see and hold in our hands...
and thats the only proff we need.

Well... its not a very safe way of thinking... nobody can see nor touch the radio waves, or the gravitational field, and yet they exist for sure...
Our senses are very very limited, and should be unwise to think that what we see, or hear, or percieve with our senses is all that exist...


as for the longer version you wrote in your link...the cupple that said they saw a pic of mary i a jelly sandwich....if they never heard the storie of her in ther bible or saw picks of here maby they wold have seen spiderman lol

Indeed! Thats one of my points there! Im glad that you did get it, and stated it in a far funnier way! :D :thumbsup:


MARY WAS ONLY A WIRGIN IF YOU DONT COUNT ANAL

Man... i think you will get some heated responses...

[R-L-B BinGall Rec.]

Man... i think you will get some heated responses...

-it wassent posted to hurt someone-its taken from a company here in dk called gorillaz they make all kinds of prints on t-shirts and stuff
(NOTE not my own point of view but a somewhat catchy frase)

as i wrote earlier in the tread
*my parents are roman chatolics so i could have just aswell*

but i made a differant choise, couse i diddent se the point in makin up someone els to blame or guide me when im confused

i belive in myself, my own capabilitys and do not feel the need to have somthing i do not understand or just cant explain, jusified by a non vissible guide to the GREATER GOOD OF MAN nahhh
come on we are in the year 2007 once we thaugt the world was flat and some of the graeter suporters on that issue was.....drumroll the christians wouldent you think that god would have given them a heads up on that one??
if i wanted to let some fairy tale written 2000 years ago control my doing and thinkin, it has to have a nother front carakter and again it would not coeksist with the things i do or have done in my life.
i would have been draged to hell and trown back the sec i got there by satan him self years ago and the funny thing is i dont look back with any regrats its just life, cope with it....

but the ways thing are going in this sick twisted world of hate, destruction and the denayability that will always try to cover shit up....i then seriasly understand the ones who do.
sorry the bad spelling i am but a dane :jointsmile:

[R-L-B BinGall Rec.]

Well... its not a very safe way of thinking... nobody can see nor touch the radio waves, or the gravitational field, and yet they exist for sure...
Our senses are very very limited, and should be unwise to think that what we see, or hear, or percieve with our senses is all that exists

ok bad choise nof words

but again we know where the radio station is, how it works and man plays the music so we dont need to see or feel the waves
we just know its there becouse sounds are played

but if no sound where to come out of that little box on the shelf
MARK MY WORDS YOU WOULDE HAVE HELL OF A TIME GETTING ME CONVINCED THAT IT REALY PLAYED!? as with me and god:)

[BeatlesRGod]

I'm not reading this whole thing, so if this was said than my bad.
As for the whole "why are we here as apposed to not?" question, it's simple. We are here by chance. I f you weren't here, you couldn't ask that question due to not existing. You are what survived and evolved into a being, able to ask that question. What didn't survive or evolve or exist isn't asking this question because its obviously not possible. We weren't "chosen by god," we couldn't explain things so we invented an answer. If I'm off topic its because your wording isn't the best. Peace.

[R-L-B BinGall Rec.]

I'm not reading this whole thing, so if this was said than my bad.
As for the whole "why are we here as apposed to not?" question, it's simple. We are here by chance. I f you weren't here, you couldn't ask that question due to not existing. You are what survived and evolved into a being, able to ask that question. What didn't survive or evolve or exist isn't asking this question because its obviously not possible. We weren't "chosen by god," we couldn't explain things so we invented an answer. If I'm off topic its because your wording isn't the best. Peace.

right on dog you hit that f.... nail, with only one strike and smacked it to the floorbord:thumbsup:

[JaMakin07]

somewhere in this post somebody said "its been proven in theory"

isnt that kindof oxymoronic

[palerider7777]

We will never know...

lmao i think one day, we will all know one way or the other now won't we unless, u have found the fountain of youth...have u??

[snowblind]

you answered your own question, if got is that which he is, then so is everything else, therefore the universe is the universe because it is the universe. theres a thread going round on the big bang and its really interesting. i was explaining one of the majour schools of thought about the universe being a wave. it might answer your question

but will probably provok 100's more

but this kind of debate is healthy

as long as there are no religous preachers where all ok

[snowblind]

btw billionfold spirited away is the most beautiful anime

[Mr.Weed]

God is lost, someone pray for him
Tuck him in, keep him from sin
Show him around, let him be lost,
kill his son, nail him to a cross

Don't touch don't look, for your life he gave and we took
keeper of evil, bringer of sin, damn it all and damn it in

Someone pray for God, his words are lost, not heard,
his mouth speaks but broken is his word


Do you know what Pie times Weiner is?

[Anubis10012007]

I believe in God. I believe that "God" exists because of the very nature of life. It is so complex and beautiful.

[Juggalo k00kie]

man... all christians say the exact same thing, well how about you answer it this time.. if you're a christian then quote me and YOU GIVE US proof of some dude coming out of the sky and making people out of dust instead of us giving you proof all the time

[Juggalo k00kie]

as for the longer version you wrote in your link...the cupple that said they saw a pic of mary i a jelly sandwich....if they never heard the storie of
her in ther bible or saw picks of here maby they wold have seen spiderman lol

damn straight, Penn and Teller did an episode on that, my friend got a chicken strip at Carlos O Kelly's that looked like a squirrel (TRUE STORY LOL he kept that thing for like 2 days before he got rid of it.. it was nasty lol) did people start worshipping that squirrel and bidding thousands of dollars for it on eBay? NO for all you know that Jesus in a waffle could be a terrorist! if you think about it, they look the same

[JJStone]

The human mind cant comprehend what god is , so anything you have ever heard about god , is false. it cant be right because we cant comprehend anything about god. throw all of that garbage that u heard over the years out of ur head and forget about it. who gives a shit about what is after life , just live NOW and try to make it a better place to be alive. dig it

[Hardcore Newbie]

The human mind cant comprehend what god is , so anything you have ever heard about god , is false.I've heard that the human mind can't comprehend god, and anything that I've heard about god is false. Therefore, i conclude, that this is false. :)

[The Green Reaper]

-it wassent posted to hurt someone-its taken from a company here in dk called gorillaz they make all kinds of prints on t-shirts and stuff
(NOTE not my own point of view but a somewhat catchy frase)

as i wrote earlier in the tread
*my parents are roman chatolics so i could have just aswell*

but i made a differant choise, couse i diddent se the point in makin up someone els to blame or guide me when im confused

i belive in myself, my own capabilitys and do not feel the need to have somthing i do not understand or just cant explain, jusified by a non vissible guide to the GREATER GOOD OF MAN nahhh
come on we are in the year 2007 once we thaugt the world was flat and some of the graeter suporters on that issue was.....drumroll the christians wouldent you think that god would have given them a heads up on that one??
if i wanted to let some fairy tale written 2000 years ago control my doing and thinkin, it has to have a nother front carakter and again it would not coeksist with the things i do or have done in my life.
i would have been draged to hell and trown back the sec i got there by satan him self years ago and the funny thing is i dont look back with any regrats its just life, cope with it....

but the ways thing are going in this sick twisted world of hate, destruction and the denayability that will always try to cover shit up....i then seriasly understand the ones who do.
sorry the bad spelling i am but a dane :jointsmile:

Wow. Time for a break from weed and a visit to your local elementary school. (this sounds harsh but its in your best interest)

Good luck!

[JJStone]

Exactly , so there is NO way to understand god completely. so stop being so concerned about god and what happens after we die , it doesnt matter , its irrelevant , just live life.

[TallCoolOne]

If we still are, and we were, how do we know God's language? We created our own, and nobody saw him watching. The big bang was a contraction of energy. God must be the universe. He was the big bang.

you just blew my mind

[R-L-B BinGall Rec.]

Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007 (http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com)

then S.T.H.U.F.G.V.F

DILLIGAF!

[R-L-B BinGall Rec.]

Wow. Time for a break from weed and a visit to your local elementary school. (this sounds harsh but its in your best interest)

Good luck!


WTF ???

[The Green Reaper]

WTF ???

That was one of the greatest butcheries of a post I have EVER seen. ROFLMAO.




-it wassent posted to hurt someone-its taken from a company here in dk called gorillaz they make all kinds of prints on t-shirts and stuff
(NOTE not my own point of view but a somewhat catchy frase)

as i wrote earlier in the tread
*my parents are roman chatolics so i could have just aswell*

but i made a differant choise, couse i diddent se the point in makin up someone els to blame or guide me when im confused

i belive in myself, my own capabilitys and do not feel the need to have somthing i do not understand or just cant explain, jusified by a non vissible guide to the GREATER GOOD OF MAN nahhh
come on we are in the year 2007 once we thaugt the world was flat and some of the graeter suporters on that issue was.....drumroll the christians wouldent you think that god would have given them a heads up on that one??
if i wanted to let some fairy tale written 2000 years ago control my doing and thinkin, it has to have a nother front carakter (hahaha)and again it would not coeksist with the things i do or have done in my life.
i would have been draged to hell and trown back the sec i got there by satan him self years ago and the funny thing is i dont look back with any regrats its just life, cope with it....

but the ways thing are going in this sick twisted world of hate, destruction and the denayability that will always try to cover shit up....i then seriasly understand the ones who do.
sorry the bad spelling i am but a dane :jointsmile:

I need some of what your smoking..LOL:rastasmoke:

[palerider7777]

I've heard that the human mind can't comprehend god, and anything that I've heard about god is false. Therefore, i conclude, that this is false. :)

with a face like that...is that ur real face if so i can see why u don't believe lmfao

[Delta9 UK]

with a face like that...is that ur real face if so i can see why u don't believe lmfao

No, its a make believe man in his avatar.

Just like yours :giggity:

[The Green Reaper]

with a face like that...is that ur real face if so i can see why u don't believe lmfao

lol. Its Kimbo Peppers!

[R-L-B BinGall Rec.]

That was one of the greatest butcheries of a post I have EVER seen. ROFLMAO.





I need some of what your smoking..LOL:rastasmoke:

ok now i follow you lol...im am danish, and are not english its like the 5th lang i speak/write thats why all the misspells :rastasmoke:

[The Green Reaper]

ok now i follow you lol...im am danish, and are not english its like the 5th lang i speak/write thats why all the misspells :rastasmoke:

Ok. Sorry bro. :rastasmoke:

[Greenbud420]

I think god realy does exsit because how did everything come to exsit? with him I dont think it would.;)

[Juggalo k00kie]

I think god realy does exsit because how did everything come to exsit? with him I dont think it would.;)

yes.. god was made up so things would make sense.. but think about it, it all makes less sense

[palerider7777]

yes.. god was made up so things would make sense.. but think about it, it all makes less sense

yea like why sum of us stink more than others humm it does make u think???

[R-L-B BinGall Rec.]

yea like why sum of us stink more than others humm it does make u think???



it makes me think that this is the reason for all fuckin muslims, jews and christians cant deal with each other....

why is it that one belive is better than the other if you cant accept your naighbor dispite his or her belifes then in my eyes your all fucked!

[mfqr]

Why is it that things are rather than are not. That is to say why are we here as opposed to not? If you are a beliver of the Big Bang, what caused the point of singularity to 'bang' into the existence we know it as we do.

Now Im not a Christian Catholic are Jew but Id like to quote somthing IV read about Moses. When God spoke to Moses and gave him the 10 comandment Moses askd God what his name is so that he could tell the vilagers or whoever who spoke to him, and God said 'I AM THAT I AM'.

The only God are the people controlling you, if you do indeed believe there is a God. I am not saying that there is no chance that God exists, of course it's possible - but I don't buy it.

The God you speak of is The Church. This applies to christianity, catholicism, judaism, buttfuckism, all sub-categories of christianity, and nearly all religions. It's called an institution, and this institution only aims to control you. Originally in the bible, I believe that the God they spoke of were actually aliens. Back then they saw UFOs, too. However, this lead to a very good chance of the people in control to set more control, by altering the bible. Isn't it obvious? Or maybe not to a lot of people... but for years this has been obvious to me. It's to keep order, and further control YOU! Even if the current people at the top of the churches aren't in to control you, the whole concept was meant to brainwash and control. This lead to generations and generations of religion-programmed people... and I mean thousands of years, dude. So, the current people most likely don't think this - they probably actually believe in God. But that is the extent at which the brainwashing has been embedded into our culture. The original editors of the bible (meaning, the REAL Bible was much different than what it is today, and had a much different purpose) only sought out to control the masses. Well, what a perfect way to scam shitloads of money out of the people, and still remain in control, huh? It's genius, really. They were so good at persuading people that they convinced them that there is an invisible "God" watching and controlling everything!

You could go ahead and say that this control is good for society... but is it good for a free society? Oh, that's right, there is no such thing as a free society. Damn you, Harry Anslinger, and Nixon! Damn you, George Bush Jr. and Sr.! Damn you, J.D. Rockefellar!

My point is, don't go diving into bullshit like religion unless you don't care about your whole view on life being changed. It will change you if you decide to listen to it. Personally, I don't give a fuck if people are brainwashed and sitting in their churches putting their hard-earned dollar bills into the "charity" bowl that goes around (WARNING: SCAM!!!). All I know is that I'm not going to do it. :thumbsup:

Have fun, and smoke ganja! :stoned:

[Juggalo k00kie]

muslims have the most peaceful religion... but it's still fake

[chuckin deuces]

Read Steven Hawking's little kids book and you'll get the best idea the human mind has come up with yet. As I've said on other posts, religion is our explanation for what we cannot explain. Yet history has shown us that the phenomena which religion explains often turns out to be explainable following scientific discovery. Now it's my turn to ask a question. If God DOES exist, who made God? AHAH! A paradox, much like time, space, the universe and our existence! Walk with your eyes open, seek and you shall find the answers. So should we continue to attempt to discover how we have become what we have become through science, the only tangible means we as humans can advance ourselves? Or should we shroud ourself in fear of being alone and ignorance of the world as we can understand it?

[chuckin deuces]

and buddhism is far more peaceful than islam. while all contemporary religions are theoretically based in peace, buddhists are the only ones who actually believe in it as a way of life.

[GraziLovesMary]

and buddhism is far more peaceful than islam. while all contemporary religions are theoretically based in peace, buddhists are the only ones who actually believe in it as a way of life.

Honestly I think Zen Buddhism is the one Earthly religion that comes closest to achieving a true perspective on how the universe really is.

[palerider7777]

Honestly I think Zen Buddhism is the one Earthly religion that comes closest to achieving a true perspective on how the universe really is.

u only say this as ur in love with a ninja lmaoand u want to be asian so bad u can taste it lmfao lmao

[palerider7777]

That might be one of the more racism comments I've seen on the Spirituality board in a while... Being a Buddhist has nothing to do with being Asian, neither does learning self defense.

racist//oh here we go as it was clearly a joke, i see now u hang on every word i say trying to find faultlmfao..lame.and as far as the whole "Being a Buddhist has nothing to do with being Asian, neither does learning self defense"really self defense and asians go hand in hand, as they are into it way more than most other cultures. so to say im racist for saying that means u know alot less than i thought. and have proven what ur really all about, ur one of those kids that brown nose alot i can tell, oh oh teacher he said a bad word oh teacher teacher my pussy hurts.oh cannabis mods he's using free speach he should'nt be allowed to i'll throw out that he's racist for saying something...u know with 666 in ur name i'd think you'd have a bigger set,... but i guess not, it's all a front like it is 100% of the time just a front very lame

[GraziLovesMary]

That might be one of the more racism comments I've seen on the Spirituality board in a while... Being a Buddhist has nothing to do with being Asian, neither does learning self defense.

Dont worry about him dude, hes just a religious troll. He doesnt even smoke any weed, which he admitted himself. He just enjoys trolling on the boards and instigating pointless arguments with a religious base. I have no clue how the mods missed it for so long but whatever.

[R-L-B BinGall Rec.]

yeahh lets get this thread back on track again, i think its a good thread, it shows just how diffrent we all are and how diffrent we think...we cross religions, we cross borders and love it when we visit other cultures, so why is it that religion allways gets the blood boilling when we take it to our homes...its just old books

i no its never gonna happen...but im so lookin forword to the day our kids (i dont have any yet) wont have the same hastles i/we did just becouse the color of skin!

im living my life by this:
i dont care what color or witch religion they seek out...
if i like em and they like me for who i am i would spend time with em, but you will never see me being fake or lie just to get some one to like me...
and if i know that others lie or so when they are with me, i dont care for spending time with em at all... i rather wanna spend more time with those i care for

lifes like a chess board you got all the ekspensive ones you wont part with on line with you, the rest is just pessants you can manipulate for your own gain....

[stinkyattic]

ur one of those kids that brown nose alot i can tell, oh oh teacher he said a bad word oh teacher teacher my pussy hurts.oh cannabis mods

Funny, the person who hit the 'report post' button was YOU.

This should have been a good thread, but it keeps showing up in my reported post box... hmmmm...

From my point of view here you guys have some very strong opinions, and while I see that yes, there is some argumentative personality stuff going on here, so far I'm not going to yell TROLL on anyone.

If I see anyone name-calling though it's going to be a problem. The post quoted above is very close to that.

If you are going to stand on a moral high ground, you can't be calling names either. So can we just get back to a politer discussion?

[Hardcore Newbie]

Funny, the person who hit the 'report post' button was YOU.
that's classic info :p :)

[Nation_1ne]

Funny, the person who hit the 'report post' button was YOU.

Can't we just have him banned? He's obviously not welcomed here. I say have a vote.....

[stinkyattic]

....there is some argumentative personality stuff going on here, so far I'm not going to yell TROLL on anyone.
.....
If I see anyone name-calling though it's going to be a problem. ...... So can we just get back to a politer discussion?

This is my stand. If you think he's a troll, don't respond to him. If rules get broken, there will be bans. Until then, I'm just chillin' here. There will be no ostracism on my watch, lol.
Was it Voltaire who said this- "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it"? Excuse the assuredly inaccurate quote... but that's what I'm going by too. As long as it doesn't break site rules, argue away.

[GraziLovesMary]

This is my stand. If you think he's a troll, don't respond to him. If rules get broken, there will be bans. Until then, I'm just chillin' here. There will be no ostracism on my watch, lol.
Was it Voltaire who said this- "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it"? Excuse the assuredly inaccurate quote... but that's what I'm going by too. As long as it doesn't break site rules, argue away.

Stinky... while I would love to not see his posts anymore... you prove to me why you are so worthy of being a moderator. Overmoderation can be worse than trolling. Heres to you! :thumbsup::D

[Nation_1ne]

"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it"?

Generally something I find to be true, however with someone of this calibre it's a quote I'm willing to disregard. The situation is frustrating because this guy is bound to be banned. It's a matter of dealing with his shit for the time being that's the issue here.

[GraziLovesMary]

muslims have the most peaceful religion... but it's still fake

Islam is more peaceful than Buddhism?? I dont see any Buddhists claiming a Ji'had on anybody lol. I know not all Muslims are geared towards that, however, it IS part of their religion.

[R-L-B BinGall Rec.]

Islam is more peaceful than Buddhism?? I dont see any Buddhists claiming a Ji'had on anybody lol. I know not all Muslims are geared towards that, however, it IS part of their religion.

id have to back you up on that one, i bet budhism is far more peacefull than eny other religion on this plannet:)

[GraziLovesMary]

id have to back you up on that one, i bet budhism is far more peacefull than eny other religion on this plannet:)

I would have to say so lol. Oddly enough, I didnt know too much about it until the past couple of years when I began doing alot of study on different belief structures. After forming my own theory on the origins of the universe in regards to the existence of a higher power, I noticed that Zen Buddhism shared an alarming number of similarities to what I had been forming in my mind.

[BeforeYourTime]

The big bang, and our universe, is the cause of two parallel dimensions colliding with another. We are the fragments of that collision.

It's been proven in theory; String theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Theory)



TV Links (http://www.tv-links.co.uk/listings/9/5239) a vid about String / M theory

[BathingApes]

Why is it that things are rather than are not. That is to say why are we here as opposed to not? If you are a beliver of the Big Bang, what caused the point of singularity to 'bang' into the existence we know it as we do.

Now Im not a Christian Catholic are Jew but Id like to quote somthing IV read about Moses. When God spoke to Moses and gave him the 10 comandment Moses askd God what his name is so that he could tell the vilagers or whoever who spoke to him, and God said 'I AM THAT I AM'.

It's always the Christians asking for evidence against God, so I'm gonna ask a few questions of my own to all Christians out there.


Why do Christians use the bible to justify what they believe yet discard the parts that contradict their beliefs?
What is religion?
Why can I not choose to worship Marijuana as my God? Afterall, you claim that God can change state of mind and mood, just like MJ. Even if you take the government bullshit about weed to be fact.. God can cause paranoia, God can cause Schizophrenia. God can cause lung cancer.

[twoguysupnorth]

I think "its" called scientology. I don't believe in all they preach either. I believe in a supreme being, somthing made all this happen!! What is was or is I haven't yet discovered. But we are here, for better of for worse. So I try too make the best of it. I believe what I feel comfortable believing, try not to push it down anyones throat, and just be happy with my life. Try not to get too distracted in my life, and do what is the best thing to do. I really think that "if " there is a "heaven" that I will make it there somday, (not soon I hope) but if not then I will do something else when I finally die. I hope that when I die that is not the end and that I just become worm food. (which I won't, I will be creamated unless I figure this all out before). But part of what I think says we can't figure it out before then! So guess aI just keep doing what I'm good at. and wait too see!!

[EbelEyes]

Why is it that things are rather than are not.

Why?

Just because.

Thats why.

[ice#1]

if there is a god why did he wait until 2008 years ago or how ever long ago it was to show himself after all man has been here how many years now i think god is just mans way of exsplaining stuff they cant comprehend yet. it use to be beleaved that god was up in heaven ie up with the moon and stars yet we've been to the moon not passing heaven on the way just as hell is sapose to be below us but who here beleaves in the center of earth is where every bad soul is stored in my opion god is just a person someone came up with in the darkages cuase they didn't like being told what to do or how to live