GH Hardwater

[swisha]

looking for some info. wonder if someone could point me in the right direction. seems as tho my water is crap, ha. from the tap i usually hit a ph of 8.5 and a ppm of 340. not good. not my first time experiment, so have a little background on growing and lately hydroponics.

at first i wasn't using a digital ph meter or tds meter, so went out and purchased some mid grade meters to get me started. and noticed my hardwater problem.

throughout my clone/veg/2weeks into flower stages i simply used GH Flora 3-part series with not many problems(hint* Mg). after i discovered the hardwater problem i then ordered the hardwater 3-part series. like i said i orderd the hardwater series but was only sent micro-hardwater and normal flora grow and bloom. haha guess these happen. and for the ph i have been using white vinegar, seems to be working fine with minor adjustments every few days (6.1).

little off subject but i did try mixing hardwater micro with normal grow/bloom and seems as tho i had a nut lockup. burning leave edges and later burn spots on the leaves. doesn't seem to bad now after i flushed the res and did a clean down. and switched back to the normal flora and vinegar for the ph. so beware mixing them.

anyway just looking for some feedback when using hardwater flora. not really lookin to get into ro or filtering to much. but any info is better than none..thx

[xcrispi]

G/H Hardwater micro is only dif. - not Grow or Bloom .
Use as you normally would . They claim it's for tapwater over 210 ppm or so .
It shouldn't be causing your probs.
Peace
Crispi :jointsmile:

[rhizome]

I'm betting that if the problems you have are nute related, it's the vinegar causing the problems.

I'm too lazy to go look it up, but isn't acetic acid gonna chelate to the acetate form?

Prob citric and tartaric in there too, depending on the brand...and who knows what else making up the other 95%. High sodium in most of the food-labeled stuff.

So you know, vinegar is sometimes used as a herbicide on OMRI cert corn fields- Corn'll take acetic at like 15-18%, but a foliar application of even the 5% you're using will kill just about all the common pest plants. Just sayin'.

I'd go the couple bucks and get some phosphoric- hell, get some GH pH- from the same place. It's phosphoric at a known concentration in nice clean reagant grade water- something you can work with...

[swisha]

i'll look into the GH line of ph adjusters. ive done a lot of reading and have a few ht movies on cultivation all recommended distilled vinegar and seems to work. but nothing wrong with tryin something better.

i just wasn't sure about the hardwater series. also didn't know its only micro that was diff. i figured the burning was from switching nuts besides that nothing has changed to cause the prob. and from reading and pics in cultivation books is where i had the idea of maybe a nut lockup.

but like i said i switched back to normal flora and vinegar and new growth doesnt seem to be burning. i will give the hardwater formula another try when i start off w fresh clones.

are there any other hardwater series out there worth a look besides GH?

[swisha]

rhizome-

I'm too lazy to go look it up, but isn't acetic acid gonna chelate to the acetate form?

not sure what your talkin bout, your just a bit over my head right now.

[swisha]

what about a water softener? was going to install one soon anyway, but seem to think you cant use softwater with plants. anyone know?

sure does get rid of the mineral buildup.

[crazywill]

Get a Reverse Osmosis pure water.A unit is around $160.00 for 80 gals a day.Or you can get the whole house one.Vinegar is ok growing in soil ,the soil buffers the PH.But if You grow in hydro use the PH up and down that are buffer for hydro and stable alot longer that vinegar or bakensoda. PEACE

[indicagrower]

what about a water softener? was going to install one soon anyway, but seem to think you cant use softwater with plants. anyone know?

sure does get rid of the mineral buildup.

water softeners use salt...i don't think your plants are gonna like that (just my thoughts)

[RedEye69]

Yea, you need to use the phosphoric. And pH needs to be 5.2-5.8 depending on stage of growth. 6.1 is just too high for hydro, possible reason for burning. pH is prob. the biggest cause of nute lockout. I've read water softeners are no good for plants. RO's the way to go if you're serious about growing hydro. Better to know what all is in the water you're feeding your babies.And Cal-Mag+ is a must with RO.
I have learned from experience that if you are gonna invest time and money into growing hydro, you need to do it right and don't cut corners.Otherwise you're just wasting your time and money.If you just want to play around and grow cheap, stick to soil.
It does sound like you are at least a little serious about it, as you did spend the money for the meters.:thumbsup:
If an RO filter is too much $ for you and you have a small set up you can get RO water from those machines in stores and parking lots for $0.25 a gallon.Or at Wal Mart for $0.62 a gallon. Thats what we did at first.
And if you need a very good formula for the GH 3 part, here's what we use:
http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/93676-proven-nutrients-all-you-need-gh-3-part-calmag.html

[PharmaCan]

water softeners use salt...i don't think your plants are gonna like that (just my thoughts)

Sigh... It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

A water softner runs your water through a substance called "zeolite" which attract the minerals in the water and hold them. Every now and then the zeolite needs to be scrubbed with brine (salt water) to remove the minerals from the zeolite. The final step of the scrubbing process is that the zeolite tank is back flushed to remove all impurities, including the brine.

The water that then comes from your tap is, tap water minus most of the minerals. It won't harm your plants.

Softened water is not as pure as R/O water. However, considering the many benefits of softened water - cleaner laundry, cleaner skin, bathrooms and kitchen easier to clean, to name a few - a water softner would be a good thing in general and would probably also help with your water problems.

PC:smokin:

[swisha]

thx pharmacan for the info. for the reasons you listed alone is why i have acquired a water softener. just was unsure if i could use it for watering plants, and hopefully i can!

guess this would be a good test before getting into r/o water for extra cash. especially since i own the softener just need to install.

and from what redeye was sayin about buying filtered r/o water, sound like thats the bottled water you buy at the supermarket..etc so that might be a temp solution to test water problems. also i totally agree you get back what you put into the system. just piecing things together when i can, and just testing and experimenting in the mean time.

thx you guys for the valuable info.

[LOC NAR on probation]

You will need the Cal Mag plus no matter. Get some PH up and down. A good PH down is sulfuric acid, many comercial grower use it. That's right go to the auto store and buy battery acid. Just remember a little goes a long way.

[swisha]

That's right go to the auto store and buy battery acid. Just remember a little goes a long way.

well thats an idea i never heard of hehe. thinking of picking up some GH pH downer for my next batch alone with come GH Klean and maybe some other stuff.

think i would be a bit scared buying any batt acid, around here thats stuff is known as a precursor. meaning they make meth with it. things have gotten so out of hand with that crap i refuse to even buy cold meds when im deathly sick or any other product that they use to make that stuff.

thats a diff idea for sure tho. thx.

[PharmaCan]

well thats an idea i never heard of hehe. thinking of picking up some GH pH downer for my next batch alone with come GH Klean and maybe some other stuff.

think i would be a bit scared buying any batt acid, around here thats stuff is known as a precursor. meaning they make meth with it. things have gotten so out of hand with that crap i refuse to even buy cold meds when im deathly sick or any other product that they use to make that stuff.

thats a diff idea for sure tho. thx.

Fuuuuccckkkkk - They use battery acid to make meth????

How stupid do you have to be to ingest that garbage?

I can see the meth head now... "Hey guys, I'm out of crank but I scraped some of that white stuff from my battery terminal and it gives you quite a rush..."

:S2:

PC :smokin:

[PharmaCan]

Swisha - you might want to take at this thread, Another pH Question (http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/116304-another-ph-question.html). It has some real good info about this same topic.

If you buy the RO water from a machine, take a look at the little led display, before you deposit any money, and it should say when the machine was last serviced. (Around here, the machines are serviced every 3 - 7 days). If you are towards the end of the use cycle, i.e. the next service is just about due, the water won't be as clean as if the machine was just serviced. I usually get 2-8ppm from a clean machine; 40-90ppm from a dirty one.

And, like LocNar said, if you start using filtered water, get some Cal-mag+. But you don't really want to start using it at full recommended dosage. Try 2 tsp/gal to start with and see how your plants like it.

Good Luck!!!

PC :thumbsup: