What is your version of THE TRUTH?

[GraziLovesMary]

Ill start:

So this is something I posted in a discussion about religion, philosphy, theology, and how they all fit in with the rest of the Universe...

Over the past few years of intensely searching for the truth, scouring every document on theology I could find, pouring over numerous manuscripts from ancient civilizations, perusing endless textbooks and publications on Nuclear, Quantum and Theoretical physics, and long, drawn-out, intense sessions of introspective meditation, I have started formulating my own perspective on the Universe. When I say the universe, I also include the idea of "God", or a higher power, that may have had some kind of effect on us and our beginnings, as I believe it is a very real part of the puzzle.

My work is faaaarr from done, however here is a short (compared to the finished product, that is) journey into my thought process so far:


Alright well first off, I denounce religion because it is man made, and tries to assert authority as if it was created by the divine. FUCK THAT. It may have been INSPIRED by "God" or the thought of "God, " but the fact still remains that it was entirely set up by human beings, and that fact is inevitable.

That doesnt mean that I dismiss spirituality because that is personal and unique to each individual. And much different than an organization of similar-minded people who are all bound by dogmatic law and stipulation that have been mandated by a patriarchial organization for thousands of years. Which, by the way, is way outdated.

So the biggest flaw I find in religion is the concept that "God" is a singular being with emotions of his own... an agenda of his own, sitting in the clouds making people out of clay and flinging lightning bolts to the Earth. I hear many people say things like "Our God is a vengeant God" "Our God is a jealous God" .... umm... what? Vengance is a human imperfection, as is jealousy. That shows me that those people right there have no clue at all what they are talking about. Another thing I blame on religion, which may be a little unfair, but thats how the cookie crumbles.

Anyway, God is a bad name for it, as it inevitably conjurs up images of the archaic, Christian God.

This "God" concept is, instead of one entity, a collection of entities. A collective, if you will. A collective of every single thought-energy body in the Universe, all networked in a dimension of its own.

Whoa... let me back up a little bit.


So... quick physics review... We are all made of matter, and matter is essentially made up entirely of energy. Why? Because matter is comprised of atoms. And an atom is almost nothing but energy. To put it into perspective:

If the nucleus of an atom was the size of a golfball in the middle of a football field... the first electron would be outside of the stadium completely. All that empty space is an energy field. That electron, and any others with it, spin around that nucleus so fast they create a sort of force field that, to other atoms, is a solid foundation for molecular cohesion.

So when you think about it, all matter in the universe is mostly alll energy. Just energy in a very specialized, and highly immobilized state.

Now, classic Law of Thermodynamics: Energy cannot be created or destroyed.

Ill get back to that.


The thought process is a series of energy fluctuations and wave-form patterns along a networked series of matrices. The physical manifestation of this thought process is housed in our brain. I believe it takes place elsewhere, however, due to the frequency and harmonics of the wave-form thought process. Possibly in another, separate dimension....

So when we die... where does all that energy that made up our bodies go to? It can NOT be destroyed so the energy that isnt lost in heat transfer and organ failure must go somewhere. I believe it remains together in a patternized state. The thought process continues, as our personality has much to do with how this energy is structured. If this energy in its pure state is arranged in a series of grid-matrices, partitioned and organized, then in theory it can function in exactly the same manner as the brain... only faster as it does not have to travel through a medium (such as the many synapses in our brain). Some people call it a soul, or a spirit. I like to refer to it as a body of thought-energy. Its all the same thing though.

If this body of thought-energy remains together, continuing some of the same basic thought processes, then it can be deduced that the nature if its existence will cause it vibrate and harmonize to a frequency that enables it to exist in our dimensions, AND in its own separate and singular dimension. A dimension where EVERY SINGLE OTHER BODY OF THOUGHT-ENERGY THAT HAS EVER EXISTED RESIDES.


Think of the "hive effect" or "swarm effect". In an ant colony or bee hive, each individual insect has its own specialized task to carry out. There are soldiers to handle threats to the colony or hive, there is a queen, there are drones to find food, build, transfer larvae or food, bees have drones that produce honey... each insect does its own thing but they all come together with a very basic but very real agenda. It knows what it wants to do, and it knows how to do it, and how to deal with problems along the way. It adapts with each new challenge, and survives quite nicely. Bee hives definitely have the concept of a few basic emotions too... there is most DEFINITELY such thing as an "angry swarm of bees." You tell me they dont get angry and Ill punch you in the face, cause theyve def got pissed at me a few times in my life.


Now... if an unimaginably large, possibly close to infinite number of bodies of thought-energy, each one with the intelligence and mental ability of any human being (if not possibly more), are grouped and networked together with a common general mindset, and a common general set of goals... think of the incredibly mindblowing tangible effects that they could have. It is easy to imagine how somebody thousands of years ago that stumbled upon this concept was not able to see the individuals, but managed a blurry image of the big picture, and it looked like one guy, lol.

Ever hear of the Akashic Records (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_Record)? It is supposedly a collection of all knowledge and all experiences ever experienced by anything with the ability to experience anything. I can definitely see these Akashic Records fitting in nicely with my supposition. Who is to say this collection of thought-energy entities did not assist in the evolution of man in order to be able to experience life as a tangible being for the first time ever! Maybe that is why life is so precious... Perhaps all animals have the ability to house one of these bodies...

I have the sneaking suspicion that our thought process takes place not only in our brains, but also in this dimension as well. Perhaps our "soul, " "spirit, " or body of thought-energy exist in both dimensions while we are still alive as well. If that is true, then every human being really is connected like I feel they are. And in fact, all life would be connected in some way or another.

Great psychics throughout the past, including American Edgar Cayce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce) gave over 20, 000 psychic readings, which range in a very wide variety. Over 14, 000 of these readings were recorded. He put himself into a trance-like state of meditation. A point in which his conscious mind melded with his subconscious mind, and he was able to access things in which few humans have been able to for some time now. He was once asked where his information came from, and he named the Akashic Records as his source, while in his transe. He never remembered anything he said, and had no knowleldge of the Akashic Records prior to the reading, or after it.

Hmm... that should be good for now. Mayhap I will post more later as it comes to me.



Soo.... What does everybody else view as the truth??

Id like to note that, even though this thread is open to discussion by all, I am the most interested in personal views of the truth, and not ones borrowed by an institution. In other words, dont just spit out whatever your pastor told you was the truth. Im looking for serious brainstorming by open-minded people that truly are in the middle of their own personal search for the truth.

[mseerob]

Great way of putting it but there's only so much that we can assume nowadays.

Nobody truly knows what will happen when we die. That is one of the great mysteries of life. We can all assume that this and that will happen but we truly don't know, regardless of the conducted studies.

I've always wondered if there would even be an afterlife? Living a new life in a completely different person. Its pretty hard to know what could happen

[afghooey]

There's more than one version? :wtf:

[GraziLovesMary]

To answer both of your posts... of course theres only so much one can assume... I live my life by the following trifecta:

-To try to learn as much about everything and anything at anytime from anybody
-To always remain as open-minded as possible towards all ideas and perspectives
-To realize that I know NOTHING.


And yes, afghooey there is more than one personal opinion on what the truth is because nobody on Earth fully knows the truth. For now, all we can do is keep searching and sharing our ideas with each other. Each persons perspective puts a slighty different spin on things and allows you to look at your own version of the truth in a different life. Finding the truth is as much a personal journey as a collective goal.

[afghooey]

I'm well aware that there are many opinions and beliefs about what the truth is.

But, there is really only one version of THE TRUTH.

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but I see the words 'fact' and 'truth' being abused so often. Usually when people say these things, what they really mean is 'belief' or 'opinion'.

It was once considered a fact that the earth was flat and that it was the center of the universe. It was once considered a fact that illnesses were caused by demons, and so on. But these, along with everything that we have ever considered 'facts', even what we consider to be facts today -- they are merely what we believe to be true.

By putting our faith in the truth, and that it will remain true no matter what our beliefs about it are, we've been able to go about the process of destroying innacurate beliefs, and by process of elimination some of our beliefs have gradually come to reflect the truth more closely. No matter how closely a belief reflects the truth, though, it's still a belief.

[beachguy in thongs]

The honest to God's truth? If I don't live forever, I will wait for God to bring me back. God wants us to, truthfully, reach perfect peace. If I don't ever come back, then I'm dead.

[PureEvil760]

There's more than one version? :wtf:

LOL "The truth remains the truth regardless of what you or those around you choose to believe" - Kryon

[2600HERTZ]

There is no such idea that more than one truth can exist, because the would defy the word truth, and though the word truth is arbitrary, what truth is, is not arbitrary.

Many people have different truths, but dont look so cloely at the small print, take a larger view and udnerstand what it is they are trying to do, and with that you will see that only one truth exists.

[GraziLovesMary]

I'm well aware that there are many opinions and beliefs about what the truth is.

But, there is really only one version of THE TRUTH.

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but I see the words 'fact' and 'truth' being abused so often. Usually when people say these things, what they really mean is 'belief' or 'opinion'.

It was once considered a fact that the earth was flat and that it was the center of the universe. It was once considered a fact that illnesses were caused by demons, and so on. But these, along with everything that we have ever considered 'facts', even what we consider to be facts today -- they are merely what we believe to be true.

By putting our faith in the truth, and that it will remain true no matter what our beliefs about it are, we've been able to go about the process of destroying innacurate beliefs, and by process of elimination some of our beliefs have gradually come to reflect the truth more closely. No matter how closely a belief reflects the truth, though, it's still a belief.

Im confused as to what your point is... are you trying to imply that I was posting my opinions and beliefs as fact and empirical data? Because if so, then you completely missed the point.

Of course we dont know the truth yet. I dont, and neither does anybody else on this planet, we can not. Not yet, anyways, not in our primitive state. All we can do is do our best to search for our own personal truth, and continue listening to our gut instinct to make sure we are on the right track. Thats why people share their ideas; so that other people who are searching for the truth can have conversations with like-minded folks. And then you have the people that just want to prove their intelligence by telling other people that they are wrong instead of attempting to contribute to the conversation.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Of course we don't know the truth yet.....

unable to grasp the concept of the infinite, we feebly grasp at what little we know and attempt to extrapolate a grand design for the universe. seeking structure, we construct laws by which we believe the universe is constrained and then see those laws shattered as we manage to peer a little farther into eternity. so then we build another set of rules based on the tiny bit more we have learned and so on and so on.....

we humans are great rule makers and we seem to try and find patterns in everything, but in an infinite universe those patterns are so insignificant. we try to impose the idea of our superiority on the vast canvas of reality by imagining ourselves to be immortal in some twisted way. whether through magic or pseudo-science we attempt to refute the reality that we will one day cease to exist.


so here are my assembled great truths:

1. the human soul is a myth. it isn't a magical entity or a cohesive bundle of energy which survives our material demise. we exist for a short time and then we disappear and the minimal amount of energy created by or used in our passing merely goes on to be used in some unrelated activity somewhere else in the universe. our immortality exists only within those who we have touched in our brief span of years.

2. there is no great purpose for humanity's existence. we are merely another happenstance among an infinite number of possibilities and our creation is nothing more than random chance. insignificant and impotent, we are just taking up a bit of space for a while in this backwater of reality.

3. there is no grand design to the universe. chaos reigns supreme and the tiny patterns which we see as immutable laws are merely temporary eddies in the vast maelstrom of existence. there is no benevolent overseer aligning the cosmos into some ultimate harmonic convergence, no shadowy master of ceremonies with a master plan.



there you go. now be fruitful and multiply, eat drink and be merry, do unto others, brush after every meal and don't forget to floss.

[Oh F Yeah]

Gotta' puff a little more before I start at the top of this thread. Get back to you in a few....................

[GraziLovesMary]

unable to grasp the concept of the infinite, we feebly grasp at what little we know and attempt to extrapolate a grand design for the universe. seeking structure, we construct laws by which we believe the universe is constrained and then see those laws shattered as we manage to peer a little farther into eternity. so then we build another set of rules based on the tiny bit more we have learned and so on and so on.....

we humans are great rule makers and we seem to try and find patterns in everything, but in an infinite universe those patterns are so insignificant. we try to impose the idea of our superiority on the vast canvas of reality by imagining ourselves to be immortal in some twisted way. whether through magic or pseudo-science we attempt to refute the reality that we will one day cease to exist.


so here are my assembled great truths:

1. the human soul is a myth. it isn't a magical entity or a cohesive bundle of energy which survives our material demise. we exist for a short time and then we disappear and the minimal amount of energy created by or used in our passing merely goes on to be used in some unrelated activity somewhere else in the universe. our immortality exists only within those who we have touched in our brief span of years.

2. there is no great purpose for humanity's existence. we are merely another happenstance among an infinite number of possibilities and our creation is nothing more than random chance. insignificant and impotent, we are just taking up a bit of space for a while in this backwater of reality.

3. there is no grand design to the universe. chaos reigns supreme and the tiny patterns which we see as immutable laws are merely temporary eddies in the vast maelstrom of existence. there is no benevolent overseer aligning the cosmos into some ultimate harmonic convergence, no shadowy master of ceremonies with a master plan.



there you go. now be fruitful and multiply, eat drink and be merry, do unto others, brush after every meal and don't forget to floss.

Interesting perspective. I dont think there is any grand design to the universe either, and I certainly dont believe in any benevolent overseeing entity, but I do believe there is a bit more to it than you seem to. Perhaps I am wrong though.

I do feel we have a purpose, at least I personally have a purpose. My purpose is to gain as much enlightenment as I can before I die, and to help my species advance closer towards unity and the next evolutionary step. Preservation of self and species. Thats our purpose if you ask me.

[geonagual]

I believe that we have no purpose...we are here, we do stuff, then we die..

[Spoken Word]

Gotta' puff a little more before I start at the top of this thread. Get back to you in a few....................
i'm right there witcha, brother.:thumbsup:



I WILL be back;)

[Spoken Word]

I believe that we have no purpose...we are here, we do stuff, then we die..
but before I read all this and add....he's right. just, we do have a purpose.....to make babies.:)that's it

[MajMike]

I disagree that 'chaos reigns supreme' in the Universe, from the structure of galaxies to the structure of atoms things operate on predictable 'laws' (some of which we have yet to recognize).

What may appear chaotic is actually an intricate dance represented by the four great forces and their respective 'laws', and within these laws the Universe operates in an additive feedback loop where greater and greater levels of organization are achieved (part of which is us, be it by God, evolution, or both).

Even the death of the stars is but a step in this great organization, the supernovae spewing the heavy metals out so rocky planets like ours can exist.

[GraziLovesMary]

^^Exactly... chaos does not reign supreme, that is an absurdity. Entropy is balanced by the positive forces in the universe. It is quite the delicate balance.

And to SpokenWord... you said our purpose is to make babies?? That would fall under preservation of self and species, would it not???

[Spoken Word]

And to SpokenWord... you said our purpose is to make babies?? That would fall under preservation of self and species, would it not???Yes. I also meant teaching what you've learned to your kid. And in turn, the child does the same with it's seed. etc.

but listen, I also like to think about "the purpose" in life. It makes mine that much better. But honestly.....when you die, you're alone. Not your parents, your family. Just you. So everything you've learned...goes down the drain, to be funny about it.
It's true. If you think you've found your reason for life, GREAT. Then that's it. You have found what you need to be happy.

I'll tell you the purpose of my life before I die. Until then, the only thing I can do is make it an interesting and "happy" one.
[edit]and teach my offspring everything I learned.:hippy:

[GraziLovesMary]

Yes. I also meant teaching what you've learned to your kid. And in turn, the child does the same with it's seed. etc.

but listen, I also like to think about "the purpose" in life. It makes mine that much better. But honestly.....when you die, you're alone. Not your parents, your family. Just you. So everything you've learned...goes down the drain, to be funny about it.
It's true. If you think you've found your reason for life, GREAT. Then that's it. You have found what you need to be happy.

I'll tell you the purpose of my life before I die. Until then, the only thing I can do is make it an interesting and "happy" one.
[edit]and teach my offspring everything I learned.:hippy:

Wow, you seem so sure of yourself. I wish I was so enlightened I could verbalize a statement as finite as that without any empirical data to back it up...

[xblackdogx]

There is ONE (unknown) truth, which would explain the way energy flows in and throughout our world and how we interpret it.

BUT, if you would like to find the TRUTH about any OBJECT or CONCEPT in this world, it is unattainable. There are infinite truths in this thing we call an earthly body. The secret is that everyone created their own reality, every concept they hold TRUE within their life is just as much TRUE as someone else's concept of the SAME thing. It seems rather appropriate actually, if our creator can manifest a "human population" whose bodies are completely unique, then he can input the program in our reality to create a self inflicting reality that is completely individualized as well.

Heres a video to help intake the idea that you created your own reality.
YouTube - The Secret: You Created Your Reality (http://youtube.com/watch?v=fKbekY6srtI)

[GraziLovesMary]

Ahhh... The Secret. Ive seen it. Its a cute video. I think they may be on the right track with some of the stuff, but I would take everything they say with a grain of salt.



I feel I must reiterrate something because I feel I am being misunderstood:

When I ask people what their version of the Truth is, I dont want to hear any semantics on how there is only one truth, and how more than one version goes against the definition... you are focussing on the POINT instead of the big picture. Try opening your mind.

Every person has their own view on the world and the universe, and most are searching for the truth. Some of us feel more confidently than others that our personal view is the closest to what could be considered "Truth" than anything we have encountered as yet. This thread is for THOSE PEOPLE. I am interested to hear perspectives on how different people believe the intricacies of the universe behave and operate. To those wishing to pick apart an argument, instead of contribute, do us a favor and go smoke some weed and start a thread about it and spend your time there. To those who contributed your personal views, I thank you immensely.

[jdmarcus59]

I belive that Christ is the truth, that is to say Jesus, a very long time ago,
He reveled Him self to me in such a powerfull way that I could not deni him
I used to tell people that when God calls you up its just not cool to hang up
lol. but I have perfect peace inside because perfect love cast out fear.

I say this with out ego, I say it only for those who have ears to hear.

[Spoken Word]

Wow, you seem so sure of yourself. I wish I was so enlightened I could verbalize a statement as finite as that without any empirical data to back it up...
"But honestly.....when you die, you're alone. Not your parents, your family. Just you."
Seems pretty obvious to me. You die alone. I don't know what empirical data I need to back that up.


To those wishing to pick apart an argument, instead of contribute, do us a favor and go smoke some weed and start a thread about it and spend your time there.
I hope you don't mean me. Because picking an arguement wasn't my intention. Thanks for sharing. :hippy:

[MajMike]

I don't see the 'die alone' analogy as clearly as you do. Most people are not alone when they die, whether they have family, friends, medical personnel, etc., most have someone near them at death's arrival.

Note: If you are talking about facing our own mortality alone as individuals then I agree, but in the less esoteric sense I stand by the above.

As far as the afterlife goes there either is one or there isn't, if there is one I think it more likely that there will be many souls there vs only you (if we continue to exist as individual consciencenesses and not simply part of the ether [which would make this discussion moot]), again denying the 'die alone' position.

Of course, I have been wrong before, and I respect your right to your own opinion. Peace.

[xblackdogx]

Ahhh... The Secret. Ive seen it. Its a cute video. I think they may be on the right track with some of the stuff, but I would take everything they say with a grain of salt.



I feel I must reiterrate something because I feel I am being misunderstood:

When I ask people what their version of the Truth is, I dont want to hear any semantics on how there is only one truth, and how more than one version goes against the definition... you are focussing on the POINT instead of the big picture. Try opening your mind.

I said that there are infinite truths- that is the ONE TRUTH (the big picture)

[GraziLovesMary]

"But honestly.....when you die, you're alone. Not your parents, your family. Just you."
Seems pretty obvious to me. You die alone. I don't know what empirical data I need to back that up.

Yes the meaning of the statement is obvious enough for me, however I think you and I have different definitions of alone. I have more than one, because you can be alone in some ways, and not alone in other ways at the same time. I dont think death is the end, but that doesnt mean I think we go either up in the clouds or down to a fiery eternity. Perhaps Im wrong, if I am I dont really care because in that case there would be no lingering aspect of me to care. I dont believe I am, though. But thats what keeps me searching. If I feel like I already have the answer, I will no longer look and continue trying to learn more. That doesnt work for me. Diffrnt strokes for diffrnt folks tho.



I hope you don't mean me. Because picking an arguement wasn't my intention. Thanks for sharing. :hippy:

No dont worry I wasnt referring to you. I actually wasnt specifically trying to imply that anybody in the thread had, but was hoping to avoid it.

[GraziLovesMary]

I said that there are infinite truths- that is the ONE TRUTH (the big picture)

No I know, the second part of that post was actually geared towards other posters, and was inspired by your "infinite truths" statement, sorry for the confusion. I also didnt mean to downplay "The Secret" either, it was an interesting video. I kind of laughed the first time somebody told me about it, because all the shit they were telling me about that they had just learned, were things I had figured out through my own observations and studies. Its a good video worth watching though.

[Mountaindewzilla]

GraziLovesMary, I'm gonna call you Hunter.

Hunter, I like the way you operate.

Anyway, the subject at hand. At this point, I have some ideas about existence, and they are somewhat similar to yours.
At this point, I've read most of the Buddhism related articles on Wikipedia, and between that and recent smoke/think sessions, am fairly certain that we exist outside of human existence. That is to say, human existence is just a frame of reference for our minds. I think that there are other frames of reference.
I would not be surprised to find out that the whole idea of reincarnation comes from our predisposition being a function of our perspective (theory!).
My idea is that when (if) you live multiple lives, the common denominator is perspective. The reason that you behave one way or another is because of what you see from your perspective.
I'm not sure how well I am communicating this idea, but that is the best I can do at this juncture.

As far as living as a human, people are irrational by nature, but have the ability to recognize their nature for what it is.
The best one can hope to do is come to terms with what it means to be human, and try to improve.

I think it is pretty cool that you've researched so much, Hunter. Most people don't give a fuck when it comes down to the essential thing.
I have to admit, I am not really interested in the underlying foundation of existence so much as I am interested in understand existence, but I really appreciate your system.

[GraziLovesMary]

GraziLovesMary, I'm gonna call you Hunter.

Hunter, I like the way you operate.

Anyway, the subject at hand. At this point, I have some ideas about existence, and they are somewhat similar to yours.
At this point, I've read most of the Buddhism related articles on Wikipedia, and between that and recent smoke/think sessions, am fairly certain that we exist outside of human existence. That is to say, human existence is just a frame of reference for our minds. I think that there are other frames of reference.
I would not be surprised to find out that the whole idea of reincarnation comes from our predisposition being a function of our perspective (theory!).
My idea is that when (if) you live multiple lives, the common denominator is perspective. The reason that you behave one way or another is because of what you see from your perspective.
I'm not sure how well I am communicating this idea, but that is the best I can do at this juncture.

As far as living as a human, people are irrational by nature, but have the ability to recognize their nature for what it is.
The best one can hope to do is come to terms with what it means to be human, and try to improve.

I think it is pretty cool that you've researched so much, Hunter. Most people don't give a fuck when it comes down to the essential thing.
I have to admit, I am not really interested in the underlying foundation of existence so much as I am interested in understand existence, but I really appreciate your system.

Thanks mountandewzilla, and if you want, you can call me Grazi, as its my name. But I guess Hunter works too :p whichever you prefer.

Im pretty sure I understand exactly what you are trying to communicate, and I agree. Its all about perspective.. but perspective is relative to the perceiver, and is an intimately different experience for everybody. One that we cant truly share with each other until our technology gets a little closer in scope to our imagination. I appreciate your acknowledgement of my research alot.. I just want to know everything about everything lol. Is that so much to ask? I realize it wont exactly happen like that during this existence of tangibility and 3-dimensional perspective, but by having that goal, it ensures I never stop learning or wanting to learn. And trying to truly decipher the truth from the mysteries the universe presents, and the challenges in understanding them that we create for ourselves as a species by setting limits for ourselves.

[timmay215]

watch 9:35-35:53

ZEITGEIST, The Movie - Official Release - Full Film (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331)

[palerider7777]

unable to grasp the concept of the infinite, we feebly grasp at what little we know and attempt to extrapolate a grand design for the universe. seeking structure, we construct laws by which we believe the universe is constrained and then see those laws shattered as we manage to peer a little farther into eternity. so then we build another set of rules based on the tiny bit more we have learned and so on and so on.....

we humans are great rule makers and we seem to try and find patterns in everything, but in an infinite universe those patterns are so insignificant. we try to impose the idea of our superiority on the vast canvas of reality by imagining ourselves to be immortal in some twisted way. whether through magic or pseudo-science we attempt to refute the reality that we will one day cease to exist.


so here are my assembled great truths:

1. the human soul is a myth. it isn't a magical entity or a cohesive bundle of energy which survives our material demise. we exist for a short time and then we disappear and the minimal amount of energy created by or used in our passing merely goes on to be used in some unrelated activity somewhere else in the universe. our immortality exists only within those who we have touched in our brief span of years.

2. there is no great purpose for humanity's existence. we are merely another happenstance among an infinite number of possibilities and our creation is nothing more than random chance. insignificant and impotent, we are just taking up a bit of space for a while in this backwater of reality.

3. there is no grand design to the universe. chaos reigns supreme and the tiny patterns which we see as immutable laws are merely temporary eddies in the vast maelstrom of existence. there is no benevolent overseer aligning the cosmos into some ultimate harmonic convergence, no shadowy master of ceremonies with a master plan.



there you go. now be fruitful and multiply, eat drink and be merry, do unto others, brush after every meal and don't forget to floss.
__________________
for all those big words u must know everything cause if u can prove just one of these then u would know everything.i love these people that think there above everyone else and there supreme knowledge is to far advanced for anyone else to understand so they throw a few (big) words around well not that big in this case but iv'e seen worse lol

[HighTillIDie]

ok i had to roll up a cigarillo on this one
i also have struggled my whole life with purpose...

i have realized this, basically there is almost no logical way anything a religion says is true ( don't get specific you know what i mean) by that i mean god or gods, or energys spirits whatever

i grew up in a baptist/christian mind.. but something was never right, i was always trying to convince myself to belive, but i couldn't....
thanks to space, and science we have been able to better understand our reality. i know thanking space is retarded like my typing skills but still... you know what i mean... being able to look... and see how matter and energy collide on such a rediculous scale, is amazing. we can litterally see into time... we know we are looking so far away that the light itself is older than anything that predates what was thought possible. there are theories on the origin of it all... but when you add in infinity... we will never really understand the origin... i can't wrap my brain around it... and i have read all the theories, gotten DEEP... but it still boils down to... how is creation possible... how is anything possible... doesn't something have to be first... i mean theoretically though time circulates and the universe creates and recreates itself, there is no time you can't just look at exsistence, and you can't view time or existience... its all just energy, the energys swirl there is nothing we are literally all just energy lol what we all concieve is solid is just somthing to the effect of pushing two magnets together, just vastly more defined, our energy is solid, or stable and aligned

our universe is just a gigantic reaction... how about that... and every reaction possible is happening literally... infinite yall... it happens based around what is reacting (energy) the more we understand energy and all of its reactions the more it will all make sense... but eventually reactions cause matter,energy pulls and tugs at matter... in all the ways we know, thermal, magnetical, ect...boom*** stars and planets... and matter reacts with itself... and everynow and then if the wet towel is left in the dark closet long enough you can get mold... ;)

so you get life if conditions permit... and eventually apearantly there are beings capable of great intelect... but they are weak and die....
do we reincarnate, or whatever? i don't think so... but there is only one way to know... die for the good...

THAT's just my lil opinion... but the way life has shown me... the only things i have seen proven... ya know

[palerider7777]

hey timmay im glad u posted that vid as it was a great peace of knowledge. im not talking about the first part about god i have my own views on that. but the rest answered alot of ? and filled in the gaps. as i remember when i was in private school and i remember my teacher played a vid talking about these people. that at the time was saying something about one of the bush's being the head of this nwo. or one world order where they control everything.

1 gov and they would do this by a chip and card just like it was saying on there. and that if u don't do things the way they want u to. then they can shut u off via the chip. but that vid was great it tied all the loose ends together. and the gag orders to the troops in nam. i know of that to well. as my dad was a force recon in the marines and was there in 67,68,and 69. and thats one of the things he would talk about. how they were over there risking there lifes. and they were'nt even allowed to fire a shot untill they got fired at or mortors raining in on them. then they would have to call in and get aproval to be able to engage the enemy. now thats bs!!!

and thats what kept me from joining too. as im not gonna put my life on the line and have sum prick sitting in an office somewhere state side telling me when i can and can't do something. fuck that and i will for sure spread that vid around thanks bunches

[delusionsofNORMALity]

for all those big words u must know everything cause if u can prove just one of these then u would know everything.i love these people that think there above everyone else and there supreme knowledge is to far advanced for anyone else to understand so they throw a few (big) words around well not that big in this case but i've seen worse lol

above, no. i'm right along side the rest of humanity, even a bit below quite a few. i do, however, love words. i love the way they feel as they drip off my tongue, flow out of my fingertips and rattle around in my brain. i take a bit of pride in crafting a message that is pleasing to my eye and ear. i like to delude myself into believing that there are some out there that might appreciate the care i take with each post and and derive some pleasure from the words, if not their meaning. excuse me if you find my posts pretentious, but that's the way i write and it's sometimes even the way i speak.:p

[delusionsofNORMALity]

or rather, the question implied by the following:

.....cause if u can prove just one of these then u would know everything.
the answer, of course, is - i can't prove a bit of it. i can't prove my truths any more than the faithful can prove the existence of their gods or madam zoltan down on the corner can prove that she can speak with my long dead aunt harold and uncle gladys. isn't that the nature of religion and spirituality? my truths are merely what i believe, you are always free ignore them or even consider them laughable if you wish. if you can actually disprove them i would be more than willing to reexamine my philosophies and adjust them to make room for any new facts.
:hippy:

[palerider7777]

religion is man made anyways, just like kings and queens,and im not saying im in with the man made stuff. but to say just because man has corrupted religion does'nt mean god does not exist.and im not downing u or trying to be mean but the way u write just makes u sound like u think ur above everyone.u know how atheist seem to think they know all just seem the way u come across i might be wrong

[Breukelen advocaat]

above, no. i'm right along side the rest of humanity, even a bit below quite a few. i do, however, love words. i love the way they feel as they drip off my tongue, flow out of my fingertips and rattle around in my brain. i take a bit of pride in crafting a message that is pleasing to my eye and ear. i like to delude myself into believing that there are some out there that might appreciate the care i take with each post and and derive some pleasure from the words, if not their meaning. excuse me if you find my posts pretentious, but that's the way i write and it's sometimes even the way i speak.:p

You don't have to "delude" yourself into believing that people appreciate your talents for written communicaton. I do, for one, and I'm quite sure that there are many others who do, as well. :thumbsup:

[GraziLovesMary]

You don't have to "delude" yourself into believing that people appreciate your talents for written communicaton. I do, for one, and I'm quite sure that there are many others who do, as well. :thumbsup:

Absolutely. I, too, absolutely appreciate an expertly eloquated statement as opposed to a confusing mass of static verbs, nouns, incorrect grammar, lack of punctuation, and lost thoughts.

Although Im human and my posts can vary from one extreme to the other, I usually try to clearly articulate myself so that my thoughts can be accurately interpreted by the masses.

Fear not, Delusions, your literacy is not wasted.

[GraziLovesMary]

for all those big words u must know everything cause if u can prove just one of these then u would know everything.i love these people that think there above everyone else and there supreme knowledge is to far advanced for anyone else to understand so they throw a few (big) words around well not that big in this case but iv'e seen worse lol

Take no offense in this thread, above all others. The real truth is that truth is a human concept, one that is relative to the observer and the perceiver, and it is often confused with fact.

I am merely asking for opinions, thoughts, introspective realizations.... correspondance basically. Human interaction is a good enough purpose for our existence if you ask me. I asked for peoples opinions, and that is certainly DelusionsofNORMALity's opinion. While I disagree with his view that we have no purpose, and as a future physicist I certainly disagree that chaos reigns supreme, I appreciate his input and opinion just as much as those who agree with me. For if there is nobody to disagree with, then what will motivate us to keep searching? Im thankful of his opinion, and moreso, his inoffensive communication of it.

Thanks to all for contributing!! Keep em coming!

[Pass That Shit]

Hey Grazi, Delusions is a "she". :D

Everyone has their view on life. To me, JESUS is THE TRUTH.
We will be changed and we will continue. Life goes on .................................................. .................................................

[delusionsofNORMALity]

You don't have to "delude" yourself into believing that people appreciate your talents for written communication. I do, for one, and I'm quite sure that there are many others who do, as well. :thumbsup:

i'm constantly torn between my desire to turn a pleasing phrase and my belief in the maxim - "eloquence is the last refuge of those who have nothing to say". it's nice to know that the compromise i've chosen is appreciated.

[Hardcore Newbie]

i'm constantly torn between my desire to turn a pleasing phrase and my belief in the maxim - "eloquence is the last refuge of those who have nothing to say". it's nice to know that the compromise i've chosen is appreciated.I get the point of the quote. I don't believe it means that you can't be eloquent. I think it means there's no point in writing a 50 page document describing a table when you can just get to the meat and potatoes of the issue. It's a table, it's made of wood, and it has four legs. :D

[GraziLovesMary]

Hey Grazi, Delusions is a "she". :D

Everyone has their view on life. To me, JESUS is THE TRUTH.
We will be changed and we will continue. Life goes on .................................................. .................................................

Shit that was an accident

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Hey Grazi, Delusions is a "she". :D
did a quick check and, yes, my nuts are still in place. not to worry, you aren't the first person to be confused as to what that creature really is. the beard usually tips them off, but it doesn't really come across over the internet. sorry if the av threw you, she's the love of my life and has been since before she died and i expect everyone to recognize that devilish little angel.
:hippy:

[Inferius]

My version? All versions.
Truth? It's all true.
It's all a lie.

It IS.
Want to know What god is?
God is, for the moment, this dot = .
And now god is THIS dot! = .
But you know what really, really makes god tickle?


=

[MadSativa]

wow this is way to deep for me I am a man of science I envision I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints and then I smoke two more and then I get the muchies............ this is my envision

[GraziLovesMary]

did a quick check and, yes, my nuts are still in place. not to worry, you aren't the first person to be confused as to what that creature really is. the beard usually tips them off, but it doesn't really come across over the internet. sorry if the av threw you, she's the love of my life and has been since before she died and i expect everyone to recognize that devilish little angel.
:hippy:

I thought so!! The avvy threw me off like a month ago and I almost made a "she" comment, somebody else did tho and thats when you corrected them.

Damnit, I hate when somebody erroneously corrects me, and I admit to their correction even though its not what my gut tells me! :mad: lol

[GraziLovesMary]

religion is man made anyways, just like kings and queens,and im not saying im in with the man made stuff. but to say just because man has corrupted religion does'nt mean god does not exist.and im not downing u or trying to be mean but the way u write just makes u sound like u think ur above everyone.u know how atheist seem to think they know all just seem the way u come across i might be wrong

Man created religion, which made it corrupt from the beginning. The corruption didnt take place years down the line, it was wrong from the beginning. Somebody saw a piece of the truth, was enlightened by a glorious glimpse into the unknown, then deluded it with their own suppositions.

Im not saying God doesnt exist either... Im saying he doesnt exist in the form that Christians seem to think he does. Thus, by referring to it as "God" will only serve to bring up those preconceived notions of a man in the sky making people out of clay and hurling down judgements and sentences.

"God" is energy. Everything in the universe is energy, and its all connected.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

"God" is energy. Everything in the universe is energy, and its all connected.
the term "god", as it is commonly used, implies sentience. is energy sentient? is the entire universe sentient? not being omniscient, i really haven't a clue. however, i really doubt that energy contains any awareness such as we would define it. i realize this is all just a matter of semantics, but i believe you should first describe your parameters before you can define an idea such as god.

by describing god as everything, you are essentially saying that everything is everything. aside from being redundant, this would seem to only cloud the issue of the existence of god.

[GraziLovesMary]

the term "god", as it is commonly used, implies sentience. is energy sentient? is the entire universe sentient? not being omniscient, i really haven't a clue. however, i really doubt that energy contains any awareness such as we would define it. i realize this is all just a matter of semantics, but i believe you should first describe your parameters before you can define an idea such as god.

by describing god as everything, you are essentially saying that everything is everything. aside from being redundant, this would seem to only cloud the issue of the existence of god.

Actually that is my point completely. I denounce the Christian view of a sentient being. I put the word "God" in quotation marks to indicate that I believe their concept of this sentient being is nothing more than a connection that all energy in the universe shares, and the mysterious properties that come of this connection.

I also believe that as we humans are a form of energy, we, too are connected on some cerebral level. Many laugh at this, but look at two people who are very intimately intertwined. When my ex and I were still together, I would always know when she woke up in the middle of the night because I would wake up at the same exact times. Sometimes she would call me if she woke up for no reason because she knew that I had just woke as well. In the mornings I would tell her the exact times during the night that she woke up, and sometimes the reasonings. I was never wrong.

Conversely, the fateful day that she slept with another man, I could instantly tell. I had the most sickening feeling in my gut, one that left me short of breath and my connection with her felt tainted. I knew immediately that she was having sex with somebody else, and I even knew how many times during that day and for how long. Accurately as I later found out. Im not trying to say Im psychic because I cant control any of this, but I do believe that all humans are connected on some level or another. My personal experiences are just a fraction of why I believe this.

[HighTillIDie]

lol you know what is cool... since basically everything is a form of energy, and scale is such a relative thing, you know our universe could be a damn atom in another universe... lol

i wish i didn't sound crazy... and more people put their faith in simply extending the rules of our world to the rest of exsistence.

here is the truth... morals shouldn't be tied so heavily to religion, in people's mind

[jdmarcus59]

unable to grasp the concept of the infinite, we feebly grasp at what little we know and attempt to extrapolate a grand design for the universe. seeking structure, we construct laws by which we believe the universe is constrained and then see those laws shattered as we manage to peer a little farther into eternity. so then we build another set of rules based on the tiny bit more we have learned and so on and so on.....

we humans are great rule makers and we seem to try and find patterns in everything, but in an infinite universe those patterns are so insignificant. we try to impose the idea of our superiority on the vast canvas of reality by imagining ourselves to be immortal in some twisted way. whether through magic or pseudo-science we attempt to refute the reality that we will one day cease to exist.


so here are my assembled great truths:

1. the human soul is a myth. it isn't a magical entity or a cohesive bundle of energy which survives our material demise. we exist for a short time and then we disappear and the minimal amount of energy created by or used in our passing merely goes on to be used in some unrelated activity somewhere else in the universe. our immortality exists only within those who we have touched in our brief span of years.

2. there is no great purpose for humanity's existence. we are merely another happenstance among an infinite number of possibilities and our creation is nothing more than random chance. insignificant and impotent, we are just taking up a bit of space for a while in this backwater of reality.

3. there is no grand design to the universe. chaos reigns supreme and the tiny patterns which we see as immutable laws are merely temporary eddies in the vast maelstrom of existence. there is no benevolent overseer aligning the cosmos into some ultimate harmonic convergence, no shadowy master of ceremonies with a master plan.



there you go. now be fruitful and multiply, eat drink and be merry, do unto others, brush after every meal and don't forget to floss.
__________________
for all those big words u must know everything cause if u can prove just one of these then u would know everything.i love these people that think there above everyone else and there supreme knowledge is to far advanced for anyone else to understand so they throw a few (big) words around well not that big in this case but iv'e seen worse lol

sorry you see it that way

[Inferius]

I remember the very day I thought to myself, probably around 7 years old, that being human meant I couldn't understand infinity.

I gave it up, and then 7 years later started over again.

Infinity is the only "rational" understanding god can be given to a rational person.

Irrationally... God is a marble.

[Nightcrewman]

The only truth is what I know to be fact.
The rest is only hearsay until proven

Cheers

NCM

[GoldenGoblin]

I remember the very day I thought to myself, probably around 7 years old, that being human meant I couldn't understand infinity.

I gave it up, and then 7 years later started over again.

Infinity is the only "rational" understanding god can be given to a rational person.

Irrationally... God is a marble.

The Universe is what it is. A expanding something.
If it is expanding then it has a edge and is therefore not infinite, just really damn big so that the bigness is just to big. Least we know the direction to the center.

Anyway great philosophical debate.

My thoughts as I read this are about interpretation and expression. You can interpret anything personally, socially, as a group, or as a race, but it comes down to the expression used.
I think that the idea of God is a great idea, but in reality its probably just not real. I am a scientist (Guided by Voices) in my thinking. Was there a Jesus? Was he the son of God? Probably, but he was just a man who had great ideas of how to treat other people and yourself. Its the expressions he used to explain himself e.g. the stories, parables. In every religion there are expressions used to define God, and your Higher Power/conscience.
The interpretations of this is what get me. Organized religion is to specific and in need of money.
Not sure where I was going to go here. Hmm.

Basically, I walk the path in front of me in this shared reality I share with all of you. The body is the temple, god is inside you, find meaning in things, do unto others...


I almost said:
"Everything is true..... god is an astronaut, oz is over the rainbow, and midian is where the monsters are....... and you came to die."
- Nightbreed

[GraziLovesMary]

lol you know what is cool... since basically everything is a form of energy, and scale is such a relative thing, you know our universe could be a damn atom in another universe... lol

i wish i didn't sound crazy... and more people put their faith in simply extending the rules of our world to the rest of exsistence.

here is the truth... morals shouldn't be tied so heavily to religion, in people's mind

Insanity is only misunderstood enlightenment.

What you said makes perfect sense. I ponder this concept quite often when contemplating past our 4 dimensions of X, Y, Z, and Time.

[Pass That Shit]

did a quick check and, yes, my nuts are still in place. not to worry, you aren't the first person to be confused as to what that creature really is. the beard usually tips them off, but it doesn't really come across over the internet. sorry if the av threw you, she's the love of my life and has been since before she died and i expect everyone to recognize that devilish little angel.
:hippy:

I apologize for mistaking you for a lady. :(

[GraziLovesMary]

I apologize for mistaking you for a lady. :(

ASSHOLE!!!

lol :p j/k

[OnionsOfLove]

There are a lot of things in this thread that I want to quote and scrutinize, but it would be a long and very critical post, so I wont do it.

There is one quote though, from the last few posts..


Insanity is only misunderstood enlightenment.


Insanity is only misDIRECTED enlightenment. And that misdirection, arguably, comes from ego battles within the self. It would be hard to misunderstand real enlightenment because when someone becomes enlightened they become so in-tune with the truth that they are able to communicate it to anyone they meet. In fact, a tendency to communicate your own enlightenment is probably a condition that comes with being enlightened. People who are insane dont often give advice of the quality that an enlightened person would be able to give. Insanity might be a different sort of enlightenment, but it would be a limited one relative to the traditional enlightenment.

and, to stay on topic..


What is your version of THE TRUTH?

A description of the truth as I have been allowed to understand it in my life would stretch across a bunch of posts and still come nowhere near to explaining the truth well enough that it could be understood by someone else the way that I understand it for myself. I have spent a lot of time relating my understandings of the underlying concepts in math, physics, philosophy, chemistry, evolution, biology, psychology, and anthropology. I have also taken many different types of psychoactive drugs in an effort to crawl out of the box, but to be honest I dont think that they have helped me more than hurt me, or at least so far. The good news is that I am learning how to use them more carefully by shutting out the ego, and the last few trips that I have gone on have revealed a lot to me. I have found that if I recognize the drugged mind as being incapable of traditional use and then decide not to use it but instead simply perceive it, psychoactive drugs can indeed be a teaching tool. There is truth to be found through drugs, but "drugland" (where you go when youre on a "trip") is not the only place that truth hides, so I have to broaden my search to places outside of "drugland" in order to see the bigger picture.

here is a quick version of my understanding of the truth:

a polygon with infinite sides approximates a circle, just like a polyhedra with infinite faces approximates a sphere. pi describes the ratio between the diameter of a circle and its circumference. it is impossible to find a precise value for pi, as its decimal places seem to go on infinitely.

when you describe the relationship between two points in a horizontal line on the cartesian coordinate plane, their relationship is easy to describe. every x value in that line has the same y value. for vertical lines, every y value has the same x value. this relationship is linear. describing the relationship between two points in a diagonal line is also easy - it depends on the value of the slope, which is simply a number that says that when you move x units horizontally, you move y units vertically. it is also a linear relationship.

if you define an n-sided polygon as having n linear relationships that make it up, (that is, a hexagon has 6 linear relationships between its verticies while an octagon has 8) then it is easier to see that a circle is a geometric definition of a system that contains infinitely many linear relationships.

everything in the universe is related and interrelated in an infinite amount of relationships. infinity is a concept that we cannot understand because the ego perceives its finiteness first and foremost. before we realized that earth was only a part of the solar system, we assumed that it was at the center and that everything revolved around it.

I watched this video the other day and I thought it was very well worded, though the background music is a little cheesy. Some of the related videos arent close to being as well worded as this one and some of them are completely confusing, so just watch this one :P

YouTube - Sri Bhagavan: What is Enlightenment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiRIndmiKyU)

[GraziLovesMary]

There are a lot of things in this thread that I want to quote and scrutinize, but it would be a long and very critical post, so I wont do it.

There is one quote though, from the last few posts..



Insanity is only misDIRECTED enlightenment. And that misdirection, arguably, comes from ego battles within the self. It would be hard to misunderstand real enlightenment because when someone becomes enlightened they become so in-tune with the truth that they are able to communicate it to anyone they meet. In fact, a tendency to communicate your own enlightenment is probably a condition that comes with being enlightened. People who are insane dont often give advice of the quality that an enlightened person would be able to give. Insanity might be a different sort of enlightenment, but it would be a limited one relative to the traditional enlightenment.

and, to stay on topic..



A description of the truth as I have been allowed to understand it in my life would stretch across a bunch of posts and still come nowhere near to explaining the truth well enough that it could be understood by someone else the way that I understand it for myself. I have spent a lot of time relating my understandings of the underlying concepts in math, physics, philosophy, chemistry, evolution, biology, psychology, and anthropology. I have also taken many different types of psychoactive drugs in an effort to crawl out of the box, but to be honest I dont think that they have helped me more than hurt me, or at least so far. The good news is that I am learning how to use them more carefully by shutting out the ego, and the last few trips that I have gone on have revealed a lot to me. I have found that if I recognize the drugged mind as being incapable of traditional use and then decide not to use it but instead simply perceive it, psychoactive drugs can indeed be a teaching tool. There is truth to be found through drugs, but "drugland" (where you go when youre on a "trip") is not the only place that truth hides, so I have to broaden my search to places outside of "drugland" in order to see the bigger picture.

here is a quick version of my understanding of the truth:

a polygon with infinite sides approximates a circle, just like a polyhedra with infinite faces approximates a sphere. pi describes the ratio between the diameter of a circle and its circumference. it is impossible to find a precise value for pi, as its decimal places seem to go on infinitely.

when you describe the relationship between two points in a horizontal line on the cartesian coordinate plane, their relationship is easy to describe. every x value in that line has the same y value. for vertical lines, every y value has the same x value. this relationship is linear. describing the relationship between two points in a diagonal line is also easy - it depends on the value of the slope, which is simply a number that says that when you move x units horizontally, you move y units vertically. it is also a linear relationship.

if you define an n-sided polygon as having n linear relationships that make it up, (that is, a hexagon has 6 linear relationships between its verticies while an octagon has 8) then it is easier to see that a circle is a geometric definition of a system that contains infinitely many linear relationships.

everything in the universe is related and interrelated in an infinite amount of relationships. infinity is a concept that we cannot understand because the ego perceives its finiteness first and foremost. before we realized that earth was only a part of the solar system, we assumed that it was at the center and that everything revolved around it.


Haha I like that, very true, very true. To adress the first part, let me propose a scenario: A man of average intelligence is privy to a small glimpse on an overwhelmingly bigger picture. His mind percieves it, and grapples with trying to understand it. In the process, he loses touch with aspects of reality, in particular, his ability to effectively communicate with other human beings, as his obsession with attempting to understand infinity overloads his brain. This is but one example of how I believe one can be subject to enlightenment, yet appear to the rest of the world to be completely insane. I am not saying this man is enlightened, but then again, there are perhaps an infinite number of levels of enlightenment.

As far as my quote "Insanity is misunderstood enlightenment", I was referring to misunderstanding of the outside perceiver, not the enlightened. Perhaps in achieving enlightenment, the man lost a part of his old self that allowed him to effectively communicate with us, but allowed him to communicate with higher planes of existence. I really have no clue myself, this is only speculation, but misunderstanding and misdirection are related as well. So in actuality I am not disagreeing with anything you say.