Unproven

[Blisterize]

As a Christian monotheist, I start with two unproven axioms:

1. There is a God.

2. It's not me (and it's also not you).

Together, these axioms imply my surest conviction: that some of my beliefs (and yours) contain error. We are, from dust to dust, finite and fallible. We have dignity but not deity.

And that is why I further believe that we should

a) hold all our unproven beliefs with a certain tentativeness (except for this one!),

b) assess others' ideas with open-minded skepticism, and

c) freely pursue truth aided by observation and experiment.

This mix of faith-based humility and skepticism helped fuel the beginnings of modern science, and it has informed much research and science writing. The whole truth cannot be found merely by searching our own minds, for there is not enough there. So we also put our ideas to the test. If they survive, so much the better for them; if not, so much the worse.

And you...?

[Blisterize]

The literary status of the bible has been the subject of endless debate. The origin is obscure and the chronology tentative, although the best guess seems to be that the four principal â??strandsâ?� were written between the 8th and 6th centuries BC before being brought together as single narrative in the late 6th century BC. But what kind of narrative is it? It is comprised of individual stories, cultic regulations, patriarchal tales, lists of tribes, historical accounts and so many other varieties of prose that it seems almost to resist definition.

It is in a sense The Book, the source and origin of all the narratives of the world. The story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and their temptation by the serpent, is one of the shaping myths of the human imagination. The account of the creation of the world may have been called into question by the self-appointed prophets of more recent centuries, but who does not secretly still retain it as a possible and pertinent model of the universe? The myth is perpetual because it corresponds very deeply to some need or belief of humankind.

[Buck268]

A Thomas Aquinas fan, Blisterize? ;) :D

[Blisterize]

No, who's that Buck? Maybe david Meyers or Peter Ackroyd...Dr. J Vernon McGee...possibly.

The question is: what do you believe in that you cannot prove? I know it's hard to decipher from the post, that's what this post is all about. It's a test to see where wer're at demographically at C.Com...k? What is your belief that cannot be proven?

[Pass The Rizla]

not another god thread ffs!!!!

[BuD MaN]

a) There is no god...get over it, its just the way your brought up.
b) No one cares.
c) What the fuck has that bastard, God, done for me lately or anyone...

[Hektik]

I missed Church cuz i was out preforming a human sacrafice. (i love that shirt :D)

[juggalo420]

As a Christian monotheist, I start with two unproven axioms:

1. There is a God.

2. It's not me (and it's also not you).


how do you know im not god, not too many people believed jesus was god when he lived.......... just kidding i dont believe in god therefore i dont believe im god therefore i dont believe i exist :confused:

now ill be serious


It is in a sense The Book, the source and origin of all the narratives of the world. The story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and their temptation by the serpent, is one of the shaping myths of the human imagination. The account of the creation of the world may have been called into question by the self-appointed prophets of more recent centuries, but who does not secretly still retain it as a possible and pertinent model of the universe? The myth is perpetual because it corresponds very deeply to some need or belief of humankind.
ok ill grant the bible and in it the creation account does seem to have a mass appeal to people, but the people it appeals to are those who already profess adhearance to christianity. There is equal amounts of people who are hindus and believe in the hindu creation account and think of it as a 'pertinent model of the universe'. There are also many other creation accounts from varying world religions. I think human-beings are by nature inquisitive and curious about the world around them, and when they cant understand something they tend to make things up, thats what i think the ancients who wrote the biblical creation account as well as other religious creation accounts did. The reason it is still believed today even though its stacked up against science is the fact people find its comforting to think humans where created speacilly that were not just a freak of nature and that theres a god looking out for them.

[Blisterize]

Now for the grades thus far:

Buck: F
PRizz: F
Bud Man: D-
Hektic: absent from class as usual!
Jug: B-....thank you Jug. That was honest! :cool:

[Buck268]

No, who's that Buck? Maybe david Meyers or Peter Ackroyd...Dr. J Vernon McGee...possibly.

The question is: what do you believe in that you cannot prove? I know it's hard to decipher from the post, that's what this post is all about. It's a test to see where wer're at demographically at C.Com...k? What is your belief that cannot be proven?


T. Aquinas was a philosopher during the end of the Dark Ages. He strived (under the guidance of the Church) to reconsile religion (Roman Catholic, actually) with Aristole's philosophical works. Often it is said he merged religion and reason :) Look him up, some interesting stuff :)

[juggalo420]

T. Aquinas was a philosopher during the end of the Dark Ages. He strived (under the guidance of the Church) to reconsile religion (Roman Catholic, actually) with Aristole's philosophical works. Often it is said he merged religion and reason :) Look him up, some interesting stuff :)
I dont think he merged it with reason, but he was a excellant writer. I find its funny that lots of evangelacal(s/p?) christians view Thomas Aquinas works as heretical because he merged christianity with paganism(greek philosophy). ^Just thought that was a little interesting side note.

[GHoSToKeR]

I think a distraction is needed

**causes a distraction**

dammit, it didnt work..

carry on

**moves on to the next thread**

[Buck268]

I dont think he merged it with reason, but he was a excellant writer. I find its funny that lots of evangelacal(s/p?) christians view Thomas Aquinas works as heretical because he merged christianity with paganism(greek philosophy). ^Just thought that was a little interesting side note.

This would be the opposing view point, yes... I would like to state I'm not really on either side...

[Garden Knowm]

Aquinas is a bad dude!! I vote he did merge it with reason.. and he payed the price (didn't they kill him?).. Aquinas was deep thinker and one of the few if only ones to actually be a progressive thinker in the church...

I also think that later ...after his death he was made a saint.. go figure hehhe

[Buck268]

Yeahm the killed him then honor him for it o_()

[RESiNATE]

A very well articulated post, Blisterize, if I may say :)
And some good replies, also.

Unfortunately, it seems that some people have misinterpreted your 'gist'.
If I read your post correctly, Blist, the question that you're asking is whether the Bible is a valid account of history, rather than a Holy book, per se.

In the UK, I would say that a vast majority of schools are under the dictate of a religious organisation; Catholic, Christian, and Muslim. As such, I have been exposed to religious teaching, and have a very sketchy understanding of the content and intent of the Bible. Additionally, internet research and discussion since my schooldays, has gained me further education in this field. Therefore, having assessed the information at my disposal, coupled with my own ideas about such, I can honestly say that my conclusion is not a blind one.
I do not subscribe to religion.
My views about religion are an entirely different discussion, and I don't want to stray from the point :)

That said, I am not so ready to discount the existence of 'God'.
I use the term 'God' in it's purest definition; the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe.
Again, an entirely separate debate.

So, now that we understand my viewpoint, I can present my case. lmao

The Bible that we know today, is the result of numerous translations and re-writes. Terminology and language, is hugely different to that used by its original authors. Expression, passion, and emotion felt by those who first saw the events that are described, might only cause us to raise an eyebrow today. This must be an important consideration when assessing the accounts' authenticity.
The next thing that we must do is to disregard the religious connotation.
This is a somewhat difficult task, because of the general intent of the context - but for the sake of this discussion, please try your best :p

Too many of the events that are described in the Bible are known to have happened in fact, that it would be silly to dismiss its validity out-of-hand. Moreover, we must also regard this text as being somewhat of the first book of law; the Ten Commandments, for example, and that it attempts to inbue a sense of moral responsibility upon its reader.

The biggest problem that the Bible has, is that there are too many interested parties who wish to twist the words to their own advantage. Selected interpretation and paraphrasing, not to mention contridiction throughout, has (sadly) turned a great many people away from what is essentially, a great history book.
The 'great acts of God' that we read about, are indubitably the primitive perception of those who witnessed the actual event. We must be mindful of the euphamistic description that they used, and try to decipher the account in a logical manner.

Back in the days when communication between the tribes was being standardised, and written language was new, I think that the inate human desire for memorabilia spurred on a fad for keeping records. Describing a thunderstorm with their scant vocabulary and limited understanding, would be an extremely different proposal in comparison to our current level of intelligence.

Therefore, with all of this in mind, I do not think that it would be reasonable of me to conclude that the Bible is meritless.

I believe that the Bible has been used to acheive too many things.
It seems to have lost its original identity; changed by man, from a collection of memories and accounts, into a means of political ideology and coersion.
I think that we can learn a great deal from it - archeology and science have discovered some truisms in the stories, or at the very least, some logical explanation.

Anyways, I'm stoned as assholes, so what do I know? lmfaooo
Res...
:D

[Garden Knowm]

Yeah, what HE said!!!!!!!!!

Especially the "too many interested parties who wish to twist the words to their own advantage" and the "I'm stoned as assholes" part...

[Reefer Rogue]

i think we need more threads about god we dont have like any... :rolleyes:

[GHoSToKeR]

Yeah, I was just reading through the boards, and I thought "Damn!! There hasn't been a thread about God for like, a whole hour!! We need more God threads now!" lol :p :p :D

[Reefer Rogue]

we should make a poll about more god threads. that being said some1 else should coz im a lazy shit. i think i see more god threads in loungin then spirituality lol.

[RESiNATE]

That's cause everyone's still stoning from Christmas, dudes :D
We, like, need the answers, man!

Plus, 'cos we're all so stoned, we can't quite muster the energy required to leave the lounge, and move to the spirituality department lmfaooo

As long as it all keeps respectful, it's all good.
If we don't discuss it, we won't know.
Shit, just think..one day, when we least expect it...we'll know the conclusive answer!

Imagine if that answer came from this board, dudes!

ROFLMFAOO

That would shut them the fuck up, wouldn't it!!!!
:D:D:D:D:D

[az666]

lol yes it would...
Judas Priest Rule!!!

[NowhereMan]

i think god is the one absent from class
hellooooooooooooo
wake the fuck up my lord you have a world to fix that is all fucked up

[Blisterize]

Now for the grades thus far:

Buck: F
PRizz: F
Bud Man: D-
Hektic: absent from class as usual!
Jug: B-....thank you Jug. That was honest! :cool:


Time for more grades in semester two:

Buck: C-

Jugg: D+ (this will greatly hurt your average!)

Az666: wake up in my class or get out and take Nowhrman with you!

G/T: he has been sent to the office for disruption of class and subsequently expelled.

GardenKnowm: A+++++++++ (youre done with this pre-requisite course, please participate in the upcoming ones....ty)

Resinate: the question is: What do you belive in that you can't prove? You have done excellently in other professors classes here and I know you're reputation. That is why I am sorry I miss give you a A-. Few pass these courses and yours is nothing to be ashamed of, you just came to class stoned and I know it!!!!

RefeRog: EXPELLED!!! :eek:

[maryjanemama]

Me and my spliffs have been trying hard to stay away from these types of threads because they are completely exhausting, BUT, my big mouth has gotten in the way. Again. I do not believe in God but my questions is this to everyone: Why do some other non believers think that if there was a God he would make the world perfect? Even if there was a supreme being, wouldn't there still be suffering? I certainly do not know the answer to this, I just thought I'd throw it out there.

[RESiNATE]

Resinate: the question is: What do you belive in that you can't prove?
You are quite correct in your assumption that I came to class in a state of cannabinoid inebriation...in other words...stoned!
I must advise you that my condition has changed.......very little!
:D

To answer your question.
I guess I believe in possibilities; I regard the possibilty of an 'all powerful creator', as much as I do not. It's not the same as 'hope', though.
Conspiracy theories intrigue me, as much for their thought provoking ideas as their entertainment value.

I believe that we humans have a hidden power within us. The Chinese would call it Chi - the inner power. Demonstrations of this phenomena are abundant; from martial arts exhibitions, to TV shows.

I believe that we all want the same things, but we are too scared of what might happen if we persue them.

We are one race of beings, and yet, for all our intelligence, we still find ourselves segregated by class, race, and beliefs.
What do we all want from life?
We all just want to be happy, right?
We want to be free from the chains of society, money, and commitments - just live out our lives and enjoy this planet.
I wonder if it will ever be possible?

It could easily be possible...more possible, perhaps, than there being a God.
You're never gonna prove that there isn't a God, but there may come a time when someone can prove that there is a God.
For me, I think that the world is too perfect to be a fluke - it could quite possibly be designed.
It is a logical theory.

It wasn't created in seven days...or was it?
It's quite possible that a higher intelligence used a kind of 'Genisis bomb', like in Star Trek !!

:D

[BostonToker]

i belive in aliens, and ghosts, but not god. I belive in fate and destiny, but not religion. I am my own god. thats how i live.......

[RESiNATE]

I can't prove 'possibility', anymore than anyone can prove that there is or isn't a God.
But.
At least by entertaining the possibilty, and with discussion and research of such, is surely better than flat denial or wild claims.

We can only progress as a species, if we learn to think about possibilties, rather than outright dismissal.

I also believe that we are fast running out of time.
I am beginning to 'feel' the mortality of this planet, and am concerned that we have still much to learn; about ourselves, and the planet that we live on.

Res...

[az666]

ill probly get sent out for this or summin...but i you dont know ask rite?
if the question is what do i beleive in that i cant prove......a main power source not controlling us but empowering us...i could explain more but i would just lose my self in my own confusion....i dont like all these god threads...even tho this isnt 1 rite!!??
oh well....

[az666]

thinking about it it dont actually beleive in what i just said well i do but not as i explained it....................i'll leave now..........

[GHoSToKeR]

We want to be free from the chains of society, money, and commitments - just live out our lives and enjoy this planet

Ahhhh, my friend, that is the fundamental flaw in your belief Not everybody would like to live that, and unfortunately, those people are either the rich or the powerful. If you ahd power over loads of people, or money enough that you didn't need to work ever again, would you want to change how the world is run? Humans have developed (i'm sure it's not an instict, but more of a learned skill) a hungry greed for power and money, so even if the majority of the People decided to stop paying taxes, stop listening to their governemts, start a revolution, the governemt and/or corporations would do their best to get us back under control.

Did you notice how I didn't say the word 'God' even once in that whole paragraph? I'm quite proud of myself, even if Blist did expel me lol :p

[RESiNATE]

So, you have proved my point, GHoST.
Humans' inate thirst for power and money, is what is stopping us from progressing to the next level of enlightenment.
You're right; the people at the top of the tree wouldn't want the world to run any different - it would be detrimental to their way of life. And, since those people are the one's that 'control' our lifestlye, we aren't gonna see a change any time soon.

I'm not talking about anarchy.
I'm talking about trying to find a way of existence that negates the need for class systems and monetary wealth. However, it is an unattainable dream.

We, as a society, have been brainwashed so completely by those who seek to 'control' us, that we can no longer even entertain the idea of a cash-less world.

When I look at the problems that truly affect my life and cause me misery, I discover that 99% of those problems are to do with financial strain; I am surely not unique.

*need to do some research...be right back*

[Blisterize]

While we are waiting for Res' return from his research library, I want to say one final word before the next class begins. First, the next thread will not deal with God although you will have to dig down deep inside your soul for your own beliefs. It will be easy for some and not so easy for others. Don't start criticizing me for the content and text, I am ill concerned with tutorial supervision and it may result in immediate dismissal, thank you in advance for your respect! :)

MARYJANEMAMA: Excellent question but I think you may be looking for the classroom next door. Please feel free to sign up for the next course, although it may illicit FEW responses!

BostonToker: You are actually so late for class that you cannot possibly catch up as the finals are today. But thanks for coming by anyway. Please feel free to come to the next topic, also!

Az666: Welcome back. excellent way to return there, my man. Sit down and plenary penetration regarding your cranium is likely to occur. See how easy that was? C+

GhostT: I'm gonna grade you and not completely flunk you, also. Consider yourself lucky. I will accept your disortation as an apology, although we'll make that our little secret! B-

Ok, as soon as Res gets back we'll close this popsickle stand and ride out o' here! :confused:

[RESiNATE]

Ok, I'm back lol

This topic has swayed about like a rope bridge, from it's original purpose.
Why do people believe in something that they cannot prove?

Because they are scared.
We are all scared of those things that we do not understand fully.
Religion is used to prey upon those fears, and is used by people who want to take advantage of those lesser informed.
Even the analogies are there; 'I am your shepard'...you are my sheep(?)

Demographically speaking, my point can be proven by looking at the places where religion has it's firmest grip.

I cannot prove 'God', nor can I disprove 'God'...but I believe that it is entirely possible.

Maybe, once upon a time, the Bible held some truth...however, I'm afraid that it has been tampered with so much, since then, that the truth has been lost.

[Blisterize]

The question was: What do you believe in that you cannot prove?

GardenKnowm: A+

Res:A- This grade stands despite my conviction to reduce it to a B+. Focus Res. You are such a good communicator, for you to get off subject, even by one word, is a travesty of academia. (It's not Why do you...It's WHAT do you....I did'nt get onto your rope bridge for one minute, although some of the class was on that unauthorized field trip!) LOL! :p

G/T: B-

Jugg: C+

Az666: C+

Buck: D+

BudMan: D-

Hekti: F

PRizz: F

ReefRog: F

MaryJanemama and Bostontoker: Incomplete

[RESiNATE]

lmfao:D
Yes, you're absolutely right, Blist..*hangs head*..I often try to over-explain myself and, as a result, my tangential thinking takes me on wild rides into the 'Explainatory Zone'.

In my defense, I would like to say that the presence of this kick-ass weed has had much to do with that :rolleyes: :p

The 'What' that I believe in, is 'possibility'...as I did say (before I went on my little carpet ride lol).

I am of a mind that if something is logically possible, no matter what the odds are, then it is worthy of consideration.
We humans have a generally universal quality - we try to prove that something CAN be done, rather than prove that it cannot be done.

(warning - subject derailment imminent)
I cannot prove that God doesn't exist, but I might be able to prove the possibility that He exists or existed.


I am in very much danger of going off on a tandem here, so I'd better stop :D

Let's just say that my mind is always open to possibilty.

*stands by the door, coat slung over my arm, as I do that big sigh and shoulder-sag cliche move*
But, how can I talk about what I believe, when I struggle to find my beliefs?

(roll credits)

[Blisterize]

Excellent work, everyone! ;)

[maryjanemama]

Blisterize, I took your advice and visited the prof next door. The class happened to be "Measuring Penises For Profit", I received an A+ and will be putting what I've learned to good use. :D

[RESiNATE]

So, MJM, err...what's the profit margin bwhahahahaha:D

[Blisterize]

MJM...u go gurl!

[GHoSToKeR]

The question was: What do you believe in that you cannot prove?

Woah, I totlly didnt even answer the question.. I'm going to submit my answer late - not for extra credit, you understand, more out of boredom. :p

The one thing I believe in that I cannot prove is not God, Fate, Destiny, Jesus, Santa, or any of those...

The one thing I believe in is that everybody has somebody.. If you havent found them yet, then you will, and if you dont, its because you let them pass you by. Call me a hopeless romantic, lol, thats just what I believe.

I also believe that everyone has a 'true love' (as I explained in a different thread) and that everyone is 'destined' (again, not the word I would like to use, but it seems fitting) to be with that one true-love, and that nothing can or will stop that. I believe once you find your true-love, you will spend the rest of your life with that person.. I guess, in a way, it can be proved.. If you have been with the same person for 50 years, and are still with them as you lie on your deathbed, then you could say that at that point you would realize that this person was your true-love.. If you believe in true love, of course :p

[Blisterize]

hey G/T, I read that Love thread and I totally agree with (most) of what you think. I made a post there, too. I have another great question (at least in my mind) ... look for it soon.