600 HPS Cool Tube Grow Light System

[criom]

600 HPS Cool Tube Grow Light System



is the cooltube wired to the right cordset and plugged into the ballast?


i really want to order this system, but every company i email eventually tells me "no we dont wire the ballast to the cooltube"...

anyone have one from bghydro that could comment ?





(talking about this specifically tinyurl.com/3cok5z as is with the sun system 10 ballast)


i just want to open the box, hang the cooltube, plug in the ballast and turn it on.


am i dreaming ?

[Dnutz]

You have to do some wiring my friend. Nothing is as perfect as plug and play in hydro...well the basic systems are...but those are weak. Now its pretty easy to wire...black to black, white to white, green to a ground screw on one of the collars on the cool tube. If you need any help once you get it let me know cuz im an electrician...

[criom]

hm damn. i see that some of the cooltubes have a prewired black plug that comes out the bottom and is compatible with hydrofarm/lumatek/sunsystem ballasts...which is the kind i want.

so that confuses me even more that the cooltube on some sights shows pictures with that cord already there with the prongs that supposedly plug into the ballast.

thanks for the help though, yarg!

[Dnutz]

they do that so you can know what it should look like when your done. there are mounting brackets on the inside of one of the collars that you mount your socket assembly to which plugs into the ballast on the other end.

[criom]

i see...tricky.

so you put your system together seperately or ordered it as one set and wired it yourself?

[PharmaCan]

I just bought two BG cooltubes.

A mogul base socket is mounted inside the cool tube with a short cord coming off of it. The end of the cord has a male BG plug on it.

Unlike computers, the hydro industry has failed to standardize so every ballast manufacturer has their own electrical plugs and every light fixture has it's own plug and unless both fixture and ballast are from the same manufacturer, the plugs won't match. So, you need an adapter. The adapters are readily available at hydro shops and on the net.

Once you have the right adaptors, the system is pretty much plug and play. Below are photos of my cool tubes and ballasts. If you enlarge the pics you should be able to see the wiring real well.

So the wiring goes: cord from light socket -> BGHydro extensin cord -> BGHydro to Sun adapter -> ballast.

Cool tubes rock - heat wise. The outside of my cool tubes is cooler than a cfl.

[criom]

wow that is an awsome setup you have there, very impressive

and those pictures are great that helps so much seeing it all setup

it looks like you have galaxy ballasts, i was going to get the sun system 10 ballast and i was wondering...

it lists

Grow Light Accessories
15' Lamp Cord for Sunlight Supply/BGH

as included in the package. but your saying i need a BGHydro extensin cord as well?

i cannot find that on their site, where did you get yours?

also i thought the cooltube plug/cord was compatible with the sun system 10 and didnt need any sort of adapter...im wrong about that? could i plug the cooltube directly into a wall mounted ballast a few inches away on the other side of the cab?

[PharmaCan]

Criom - It sounds to me like the lamp cord is an adaptor - which is good because it saves you having to spend $12 on the adaptor. Order the package, you'll be good to go.

The Galaxy ballasts are made by Sun - or at least they have Sun connectors. I got the Galaxy because they are digital and can run MH or HPS.

[criom]

yea if i had a choice i would get the galaxys too but i just cant afford them. they have awsome features for sure. i can just sell a kidney later and get a MH convertion bulb after i take out 8 mortgages on my house.

im hoping your right about the lamp cord being an adaptor.


isnt galaxy and sun part of hydrofarm who makes the cooltube?

i thought lumatek was part of hydrofarm too...so i dont understand why you needed the adapters exactly. would this also be reffered to as a universal cord set?

i see them as 25$+ options on some sites, but with no information on what it is of course.

[criom]

is there any difference between the bghydro extension cord (that they dont carry) and a normal extention cord?

[PharmaCan]

is there any difference between the bghydro extension cord (that they dont carry) and a normal extention cord?

The cords are the same - only the ends are different.

[criom]

haha alright then. sounds like i wont know wth im getting for sure until i open the box

[criom]

this is an email response i got from them

The Cool Tube reflector is made by a different company than the ballast, and it doesnâ??t ship to us with a lamp cord, which is why the system doesnâ??t come prewired. It only involves attaching 3 wires (black to black, white to white and green to the socket assembly) and we do provide simple instructions, but Iâ??m sure we can wire it for you before it ships out for a nominal fee ($5-10).



If this is something youâ??re interested in please reply to this email and Iâ??ll find out the exact price and get things rolling for you.


i think it would be worth the 10$...and it also clarifys that the cooltube is not prewired with a male plug.

all together itll be about 400$ with shipping....good deal?

[Al B. Fuct]

$10 to have three connections made, by matching wire colours? I got a trained pet rat that can do that much wiring. :D

DIY, baby. :)

[Weedhound]

Hey Al can I borrow your rat to have him teach me? i'll pay ten bucks......:D

[criom]

yea no shit a rat that does electrical work

ill take 6 thanks!

[Al B. Fuct]

I'm a rat slave driver. The little beggar works for peanuts- literally.

Send me your tired, huddled ballasts, yearning to be wired free (or at least for peanuts)!

Really, we should not overcomplicate things. Most grow op wiring is dead-nuts simple, especially when it comes to putting a power connector on the end of a wire. Not complex stuff. You only need to be sure you're connecting the right wires together and that the connections are tight and sufficiently insulated if necessary.

Anyone who runs a grow op needs to have enough electrical wiring competency to do some basicbasicbasics.

[criom]

well actually i have wired one socket before into a weird wing reflector that was a little overly complicated....maybe i have post traumatic stress syndrome from that. ur right though i probably should do it myself now that i know for sure that the model of cooltube BGH sells has no hydrofarm male out cord.

i wish they would clarify that somewhere, that there are at least 2 different models of cooltubes that require different cords.

oh well...send me your rat

[Al B. Fuct]

Yeah, it's smart for anyone selling goods like that to be very clear on what they're supplying... but a connector is a connector is a connector. Three screws, three wires, line, neutral and earth. Big fat hairy deal.

I should get Ratso to turn you lot on to how to solder (almost as easy as glue) and use heat-shrinkable tubing instead of cheap black electrical tape, too. ;)

Ratso's bags are packed. Cool when you can use a matchbox as an overnight bag. ;)

[criom]

haha matchbox...

theres no soldering involved in setting up a cooltube though right?


also i keep hearing that i need at least an 8" fan to move enough air to keep it cool, is there anyway around this?

they are really expensive and im wondering if a Suncourt 6" In-line Duct Fan - 300 cfm would be enough to cool it.

i could put that on the output from my external air conditioner (in another room) and run the ducting all the way into the main cab right?

or would that not even make a difference?

[Al B. Fuct]

I wouldn't expect you'll need to solder anything for this task.

However, if you do need to connect bare wire ends together, solder & heatshrink is the safest, most durable way to do it in a grow op.

You should see Ratso's little toothbrush. It's soooooo coot. :D

[criom]

well thats good to hear at least, ive got the gun and solder handy anyway.

now if i could just seduce ratso into spending the night...

[Al B. Fuct]

Hey, you're halfway home. Haven't got Ratso's boarding pass yet, so this is encouraging. ;)

A soldering gun will work, but they are usually 100 watts or so- a bit big for the small task of sticking a couple wires together. Work quickly with a gun- to avoid overheating the work and melting insulation. Heat the work for no more than a couple of seconds, touch solder to the hot wires and gun tip until the solder flows, remove heat, don't disturb until solder is cool & solidified. If you can't work fast, use a 15-25 watt soldering iron.

Ratso is a slut for the nuts. If you have cashews, he might never leave. :D

[criom]

hahaha

now i dont know which im more paranoid about, having to wire or possibly solder, finding a good enough fan to cool it, or having sex with a slutty rat electrician who lives in a matchbox.


THE HORROR

[Al B. Fuct]

also i keep hearing that i need at least an 8" fan to move enough air to keep it cool, is there anyway around this?

they are really expensive and im wondering if a Suncourt 6" In-line Duct Fan - 300 cfm would be enough to cool it.


I'd match the fan diameter to the cooltube diameter.

You gotta remember that these tubes are normally content to run without any air motion at all- even a small fan, matched to the tube diameter, will be a big improvement.

I expect a cooltube to be about 3.75" dia. A 4" fan, of good quality, should do you just fine. By 'good quality' I mean cast aluminum body and ball bearings, not a cheap plastic bodied computer fan with sleeve bearings.

Any cooltube fan should be on the cool side, blowing air first over the tube socket and then warmed air dicted out of the grow airspace.

If you can't find an appropriate 4" fan in a duct, the 6" will do, using duct size reducers from Ye Olde Hardware Shoppe.

I don't think an 8" fan is necessary, unless you're pushing air through two 4" cooltubes.

[PharmaCan]

Now I understand. Actually, this is a good way of doing things because then you can get the cord you want on the fixture you want.

What are you getting for $400?

I paid:

BGH cool tube $ 80
Lamp cord $ 20
cord adaptr $ 13
400w Ballast $180
MH bulb $ 20
________
Total $313

I just looked on BG Hydro and their price on the complete cool tube is $320.With the digital ballast it is $360.

BG Hydro 600w cool tube system. (http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/items.asp?Cc=H6&iTpStatus=0&Tp=&Bc=)

[criom]

apparantly all cool tubes are 6" in diameter so i was thinking a Suncourt 6" In-line Duct Fan - 300 cfm would do it...

"Any cooltube fan should be on the cool side, blowing air first over the tube socket and then warmed air dicted out of the grow airspace."

so i should put the fan on the socket side of the tube...got it

do i want alot of ducting attached to the exhaust side? or does that not matter? im thinking it could add resistence and make the fan work harder or not as well. so should the exhaust side ducting just go outside the space and stop? or should i run it a bit farther


thanks for the info i was thrown off by the 8' fan suggestion because theyre so freaking expensive

[criom]

your right about the 320$ thas what im going to get.

the basic configuration with the sun system 10 ballast.

the shipping is whats killing me, like 65$.

and now that i need at least a 4" fan thats another 50$...

still way over 400$ :*(

[criom]

crap the BGH guy just emailed me back and said the smallest fan i could probably get away with is Dayton 265 cfm 75$

so that brings the total to like 460$....aaaaaaaaahrg

[PharmaCan]

Ratso sounds like a scab to me. First my wages are driven down by illegal aliens and now there's damn rats working for peanuts. The only upside is maybe all the illegals will be put out of work by the rats and they'll go back home. The rats would make much better neighbors.

For what it's worth, my socket has screws on it and the wire has lugs, so basically a blind trained rat could wire it. LOL

[criom]

haha and hed prolly still do a better job then me

[PharmaCan]

I've got my two cooltubes hooked to one 6" vortex inline 470cfm fan. With all the twists and turns and carbon filter, I'm guessing the cfm is down to around 400cfm. The tubes stay cooler than a cfl. I've got one plant touching the cooltube directly under the bulb and it isn't hurting the plant. My fan is on the exhaust side of the tubes - sucking air.

Dayum - why so much for shipping? Where do you live, at the North Pole?

[criom]

damn 150$ for a 6" vortex too...shiot

thats impressive though youve got it cooler then a cfl. so it must be better to have it exhausting away from the socket and over the bulb...

i like in michigan....the cheapest shipping BGH offers is fedex (I HATE FEDEX) for 65$.

i think that may make me buy elsewhere....

[criom]

with the dayton the shipping is 62$ total is 467$.


this doesnt seem like a good deal anymore

[Al B. Fuct]

crap the BGH guy just emailed me back and said the smallest fan i could probably get away with is Dayton 265 cfm 75$

so that brings the total to like 460$....aaaaaaaaahrg

I hate to second guess the guy... but 265cfm is big enough for a 795 cu ft grow op main exhaust fan. Holy moley. What's your cooltube diameter?

[PharmaCan]

I hate to second guess the guy... but 265cfm is big enough for a 795 cu ft grow op main exhaust fan. Holy moley. What's your cooltube diameter?

I'm thinking this same thing. The 6" fan on my system is overkill. I can turn the fan down to 1/2 speed before any noticable rise in temp.

A 4" fan should do the trick for one cool tube.

Don't you have a local Hydro store? A lot of Hydro stores will match online prices.

[Al B. Fuct]

apparantly all cool tubes are 6" in diameter so i was thinking a Suncourt 6" In-line Duct Fan - 300 cfm would do it...

hmm, OK. I'm doing up some DIY cooltubes absed on the Pyrex "Bake-A-Round" heat-tempered glass tubes. They're supposed to be 3.75" OD.

Zandor has a great photoessay here on DIY "Bake-A-Round" cooltubes. (http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-faqs/59042-diy-pyrex-bake-round-cool-tube.html) I'm liberally thieving from Zandor's bit for my own.

[criom]

please feel free to second guess him :)

the cooltube diamter is supposedly 6"

im going to be using about 18 feet of ducting all together, without any major bends or angles....so maybe i dont really need a 265cfm....but the entire point of this is to keep that bulb as cool as possible so im not sure what to do

[criom]

i do have a local hydro store but driving there would probably cost just as much in gas $ as it would to have it shipped. their prices arnt so great either and they dont have any cooltubes on the display floor...

but they sell them on their site

[criom]

oh i love the idea of a DIY cooltube but i keep thinking about "what if it falls/breaks/shatters/comes loose" then it would fry all the plants and goodbye sanity




pharmacan whats the cheapest 4" inline fan you would reccomend? all the ones ive looked at are crappy and have to be wired to a cord to even plugin to an outlet...

[Al B. Fuct]

Well, if you're handy in the workshop, should be OK. Zandor's looks fairly mechanically stable.

I'm only planning one alteration to Z's work- will be using silicone sealant instead of self-adhesive foam on the tube ends where they meet the sheetmetal. I think the foam would degrade from heat & UV and might indeed become loose. Silicone is an instant rubber gasket which will handle 500F all day for years.

[PharmaCan]

I don't have enuf experience with exhaust fans to recommend one. Sorry.

I found 6" od bake-a-rounds on Ebay.

Dude - cooltubes ain't rocket science. You think they are, I know I did, until you install them and then you think, "I could have made this myself." There's a couple of good cooltube DIY's - Al posted one link above. If you're trying to save a few bucks, make it yourself.

[Al B. Fuct]

im going to be using about 18 feet of ducting all together

That's a fairly long run, particularly if you're using flexible duct.

Axial blowers can't push into a lot of static pressure (backpressure). Air pressure leaks backward between the fan blades. Axials won't meet their CFM ratings if there's a lot of flow resistance/backpressure downline. Example of an axial fan. (http://www.hygrow.net/products.php?category_id=2&product_id=9)

Centrifugal types are better when you have to push air down a long run, through a few 90 bends or through a carbon filter. Example of a centrifugal blower. (http://www.hygrow.net/products.php?category_id=2&product_id=10)

I'm probably not giving you any good news as centrifs tend to be more expensive than axials. Sorry!

If you can shorten your duct run or replace long straight sections with plain steel duct, it'll move more air.

[PharmaCan]

Well, if you're handy in the workshop, should be OK. Zandor's looks fairly mechanically stable.

I'm only planning one alteration to Z's work- will be using silicone sealant instead of self-adhesive foam on the tube ends where they meet the sheetmetal. I think the foam would degrade from heat & UV and might indeed become loose. Silicone is an instant rubber gasket which will handle 500F all day for years.

On the BGH cooltube the socket is connected to an L bracket which is attached to the sheet metal. The L bracket is attached with an eye screw & nut which is also used for hanging that end of the cooltube. So, essentially, the bulb is directly supported by the hanger. It would take a major calamity for that part to come disconnected and fall. It's, like, almost impossible.

The above mentioned mounting hole isn't air-tight. Since I'm sucking air thru the tubes, I don't care if it's air-tight. This whole cooltube concept doesn't require air-tight. It only requires that sufficient air be sucked past the bulbs to transfer the heat.

[Al B. Fuct]

If the duct run isn't too long, I think this one will do it (http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/suncourt-inch-inline-duct-booster-fan-wpowercord-p-1020.html) (edit: for 4" tubes). Rated 40CFM. We're only cooling one light, not venting an entire grow op. Presuming you already have a main exhaust fan.

For 6" something like this will do (http://www.smarthome.com/3011.html), but we're back to $57 and 250CFM (also presuming short duct)

If you bring in air from just outside the op and dump it just outside as well, it won't need any scent treatment. You'll only need to use care not to allow warmed air to get sucked right back into the op.

[Al B. Fuct]

The above mentioned mounting hole isn't air-tight. Since I'm sucking air thru the tubes, I don't care if it's air-tight. This whole cooltube concept doesn't require air-tight. It only requires that sufficient air be sucked past the bulbs to transfer the heat.

Airtightness depends on how you organise your airflow and scent control.

If you push 'clean' air from outside the op thru the cooltubes, they're at positive pressure compared to the op. Any cooltube air leaks will just vent 'clean' air into the op airmass, which will then leave the op through the main exhaust blower. No wucking furries.

If you suck air through your cooltubes, they will be at negative pressure compared to the 'stinky' air in the op. 'Stinky' air can then enter the cooltube via leaks and will exit via the cooltube fan. That air then has to be scent treated via filter, ioniser, etc.

I'd prefer to have fans upstream from the tubes for 2 reasons- the fan doesn't get exposed to the warm airstream from the lamp and the tubes run at positive pressure.

[criom]

wow Al B. Fuct thanks for the examples and the link

that 6-In 250CFM is a great deal, but yea needs wiring and stuff...ill still try to get the shortest ducting possible (maybe i can get it down to less then 10 feet total)

also for me air leaks in the cool tubes does make a huge difference because co2 is involved. so i believe i would run them at positive preassure/upstream to be more effective?

great info :)

[PharmaCan]

Al - you make a good point about the air pressure. I'm using the cooltube to exhaust the cabinet w/ fresh, air-conditioned air coming from inside my house. Since this is a veg cab, I wasn't worried too much about the smell. However, I am using a big exhaust filter.

Criom - Why do you need such a long run on the duct?

[Al B. Fuct]

wow Al B. Fuct thanks for the examples and the link

that 6-In 250CFM is a great deal, im definitely going to get that and try the shortest ducting possible (maybe i can get it down to less then 10 feet total)

coolio. :)




also for me air leaks in the cool tubes does make a huge difference because co2 is involved. so i believe i would run them at positive preassure/upstream to be more effective?

great info :)

no worries :)

I think a bead of silicone sealant would make a leak-free connection.

If there's lots of airflow, such as in PharmaCan's case (he's got a bigmuthahompin' centrif on his cooltube), each cubic foot of air passing over the lamp tubes has to absorb less heat and has less time to do so than with smaller fans, so the actual tube output air temp won't be very high for him. He can get away with having his blower downstream, sucking air through the tubes. Betting his cooltube air exhaust temp isn't over 90F, probably less.

If you're not moving air at huge rates, it will get warmer as it spends longer in the cooltube. Fans of lower capacity should be placed upstream, blowing air first over the socket.

[criom]

"Criom - Why do you need such a long run on the duct?"
because i was planning on mounting the intake duct to my air conditioner which is about 9 feet away, i could just intake from the room and use 3-4 feet.

"I think a bead of silicone sealant would make a leak-free connection."

should i be using this for every connection made even to the fan?


"If there's lots of airflow, such as in PharmaCan's case (he's got a bigmuthahompin' centrif on his cooltube), each cubic foot of air passing over the lamp tubes has to absorb less heat and has less time to do so than with smaller fans, so the actual tube output air temp won't be very high for him. He can get away with having his blower downstream, sucking air through the tubes. Betting his cooltube air exhaust temp isn't over 90F, probably less.

If you're not moving air at huge rates, it will get warmer as it spends longer in the cooltube. Fans of lower capacity should be placed upstream, blowing air first over the socket."

hm if i am going to get the smaller fan, and as you say it should be mounted blowing over the socket...would it be a bad idea to mount the fan right on the cooltube ? or maybe with a small piece of ducting in between it so it was blowing as hard as possible directly up the socket and over the bulb.

im not sure if the vibrations from that would damage the bulb or not, could block the light a little too i guess

[Al B. Fuct]

Al - you make a good point about the air pressure. I'm using the cooltube to exhaust the cabinet w/ fresh, air-conditioned air coming from inside my house. Since this is a veg cab, I wasn't worried too much about the smell. However, I am using a big exhaust filter.


Yep, you're quite right, vegging plants don't stink much. Your filter may not be needed, but soon as you removed it, some nosey-nose would pick it up. ;)

My cooltubes are for a pair of 1000s in a flowering area. They are getting a completely independent air circuit- cool 'clean' air in from outside the op airmass, pressurised tubes with blowers upstream, dumping air also outside the op airmass of course. No filtration needed as I'm not drawing 'stinky' air through the circuit.

[Al B. Fuct]

should i be using [silicone sealant] for every connection made even to the fan?

Sure can't hurt. If you have to disassemble at a later date, you'll have to cut the stuff free with a razor knife, but that's no biggie. It doesn't harden like epoxy or caulk.


hm if i am going to get the smaller fan, and as you say it should be mounted blowing over the socket...would it be a bad idea to mount the fan right on the cooltube ? or maybe with a small piece of ducting in between it so it was blowing as hard as possible directly up the socket and over the bulb.

im not sure if the vibrations from that would damage the bulb or not, could block the light a little too i guess

Remote mounting the fan will provide some vibration isolation, good idea.

[PharmaCan]

Criom - I doubt the occasional cool air you might suck from the a/c duct would be worth the loss of flow due to such a long duct. Also remember, that a/c duct is blowing warm air some of the time too.

This probably goes without saying but, wherever you mount the fan, be sure to take into consideration if you want the light to be moveable.

[Al B. Fuct]

This probably goes without saying but, wherever you mount the fan, be sure to take into consideration if you want the light to be moveable.

Damn glad you mentioned that, PC. I would have forgotten to take that into consideration (but I just blew a cone, too :D ).

[criom]

"Criom - I doubt the occasional cool air you might suck from the a/c duct would be worth the loss of flow due to such a long duct. Also remember, that a/c duct is blowing warm air some of the time too."
it would not be occassional cool air...i would litterally seal the duct directly to the output on my window air conditioner and run that 10 feet to the intake on the cooltube. in addition i could boost that flow with the Suncourt 6 Inch, i think that plus the high powered fan already built into the air conditioner unit would create a pretty strong flow..

or i could use the fan to suck the cool air towards and out..


edit: said air conditioner runs 24/7 at the highest cooling rate...

[Al B. Fuct]

criom, like PC, I think ducting a/c over the lights is overkill. I think you'll keep the surface of the cooltube very cool compared to op airmass temp just by pumping ambient temp air through the tube (unless it's summer and you live in Las Vegas ;) ).

That's your goal, BTW- stopping transfer of heat from the lamp to the room airmass. Cooling the surfaces exposed to the op airmass is how this is accomplished.

You won't stop the radiated shortwave IR with a cooltube- your hand will still feel warm in direct light- but you will stop the longwave IR that normally heats your op airmass.

Reserve drawing air from the a/c as a last ditch trick if the cooltubes don't get your room temps down to the necessary 80F max- but don't put it on the lights, put it on the plants.

[Al B. Fuct]

here's an interesting read on thermal radiation on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation).

[criom]

i guess thats part of my problem is that im trying to setup a sealed room and i cant have any intake or exhaust...so i cant put the AC right on the plants...or anything else really.

but i will definitely keep that in mind...hopefully like you say it wont come to that

[criom]

damn thanks for the wiki link, now ill be up all night doing math :)

[Al B. Fuct]

i guess thats part of my problem is that im trying to setup a sealed room and i cant have any intake or exhaust...so i cant put the AC right on the plants...or anything else really.


mmmm... there's gotta be a 'gozin' and a 'gozout.'

Nothing gozin if nothing gozout.

I hate to spring this on ya, but if you can't vent the space, you can't grow in it. You must have an effective way to bring in fresh, CO2 laden air and exhaust humid, CO2 depleted air (and leaving a closet door open a couple of hours a day doesn't count).

The air volume requirements for a grow op far exceed the size of the building you'll use to house the op. Can't grow in a totally sealed room, simple as that- unless you happen to live in a blimp hangar...

[criom]

haha im aware of that

god id love to live in a blimp hanger on a side note...

i can vent the space whenever i want, and co2 would be constantly pumped in...but for the most part it would stay more or less sealed, aside from whatever way i find to insert the 2 duct tubes into the room...

which im not really sure how to do yet. there is a small 1x1 opening hinge door at the bottom of it and ill run them both through there....but i have no idea how to fill in the space between the duct tubes since theyll be in a square opening.

i ussually flood the op with a fan using that square hole but since ill be putting 2 duct tubes there that will pretty much take up the space ill have to find a new way to exaust..

[PharmaCan]

Croim - what is your "grow room"? A room? A cabinet?

Here's a DIY on a cabinet I just built (http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/118025-diy-grow-room-log.html). Maybe you can get some ventilation ideas from there.

BTW - two 6" ducts won't fit through a 1'x1' square hole. If you're using 4" duct, use a hole saw and cut two 4" holes in a 1'x1' piece of plywood then seal with silicon.

[Al B. Fuct]

1x1- feet?

OK, let me see if i have this right...

You want to use a closed-path cooltube, drawing air from outside to cool the lamp and then dumping it outside the op airmass.

You're supplying CO2 in hope of not having to draw air in for the op- right?

Where is your transpired moisture going?

Is there no ventilation path for the op airmass?

Am I missing something here?

[criom]

pharmacan-your cabinet is amazing, i wish i had seen that thread a few hours ago, some great pictures there. it definitely gives me some vent ideas... had no idea i was talking with a professional builder...jeez.
mine is a closet with an access panel to the attic in the ceiling that is currently sealed shut, but i could mount a squirrel cage fan onto it i guess and use that as an exhaust. which would go perfect with
"use a hole saw and cut two 4" holes in a 1'x1' piece of plywood then seal with silicon". then it could be completely light and mostly air sealed...great!


btw-that story you told your neighbor is brilliant, and if i were him id probably believe that mylar was anti-microwave film if you started going into tech specs :error:

al b fuct-
"You're supplying CO2 in hope of not having to draw air in for the op- right? " no im using co2 for increased yields.

"Where is your transpired moisture going? " i exhaust it with a strong fan, so out of the op and into my room. if i answered that wrong please clarify

"Is there no ventilation path for the op airmass?"
as per the hydrofarm instructions i clear the room out every 3 hours, and run co2 with it sealed the rest of the time.

1x1 feet is just the small access door i made at the bottom of the closet door, it is not the actual size of my growspace lol

what am i doing wrong here?

your correct when you say i want a closed path cooltube drawing air from outside op and dumping it back outside. the ventilation path for the op airmass would be the every 3 hour exhaust cycle with the strong fan.

from your questions it sounds like im doing something very very wrong here

what is it?

[PharmaCan]

criom - Yeah, I'm a noob a growing but an ace at construction. I just took my first clones today (http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/119351-first-time-cloning-suggestions-welcome.html) and I'm hoping all goes well with them. I followed Al's cloning instructions to the "T", so if the clones fail at least I have someone to blame it on. LOL

Anyway, as you can see all that vent stuff takes up quite a bit of space and I don't have your intake duct.

How big is your closet? Are you running your cool tube vertically or horizontal?

Have you seen this thread - The sealed room 3 lbs. per light (http://boards.cannabis.com/growroom-setup/31194-sealed-room-3lbs-light.html) you might get some vent ideas from there.

[criom]

haha good backup plan on blaming Al im sure thatll go well :O
they look great to me, although huge!

yea i was amazed at how much work and design goes into wiring the venting ducts and such...but that home made carbon filter you have is so slick, looks store bought.

the closet is 3 wide 2 deep and 7 high, although i have another 3x3x7 space too. at this point though im thinking of just converting my entire 10x12 bedroom and sleeping in a big carbon filter

im not sure how im going to run the cool tube yet. since everyone says the reflector sucks maybe i should go vertical?



god this 3lbs/light thread is insane....what is it 14 1k lights? if he can figure out how to keep that cool i should be able to learn and handle 1 bulb hehe thx for pointing this out

i wanna see your cab in action though during flowering, be sure to bring your neighbor over to show him the servers

just tell him Dell went all organic

[Al B. Fuct]

what am i doing wrong here?

your correct when you say i want a closed path cooltube drawing air from outside op and dumping it back outside. the ventilation path for the op airmass would be the every 3 hour exhaust cycle with the strong fan.



So, what happens to the temps and particularly the humidity in the room over the 3 hours that no air is moving through it?

[PharmaCan]

That's just a vegging cab. By the time the clones are vegged I will have built a 10' x 10' flowering room. I'm growing mmj (medical) for my sis and I and the number of plants I can have is limited - but the size of the plants isn't. So I'm leaning towards larger plants.

Al's instructions said to take big clones so that's what I did. If this comes down to the blame game, I'm not leaving him any outs. LOL

That's one hefty filter. I had to buy real thunder-thigh tights to get around the eight inches. But it only cost about $25 - I already had the wire so maybe $30 - but hell I saw the same thing online for $250.

I'm going to see if I can find a thread about a guy's verticle cool tube grow. He had about the same size op as yours and his results were damn fine. Ya know, when see a thread on this board that you think has good info that you might want to refer to later, it's a good idea to make some comment on the thread, even if just "way cool", then you can find the thread again by searching your own name.

[criom]

the humidity stays at 45% (i dont know why) and the temps rise to about 90-100, it has one small fan circulating air...comparable to a large computer fan.

the temp is the main reason im getting the cooltube, that and i want more lumens so the co2 is better used.

ive done one run with it and seen a 30-40% increase, so it seems like i could really pull alot if i had that last lumen/temp golden number dialed into my space.

what should the temp/humidity be at in your book?

i imagine if i put the tube in the temps would at least drop to 85F or less, and thats perfect. hopefully...

[PharmaCan]

So, what happens to the temps and particularly the humidity in the room over the 3 hours that no air is moving through it?

According to those much wiser than me, temps in the 90's are just fine if you are using co2. As far as humidity goes, one needs a dehumidifier in a sealed room.

...but criom loves buying equipment so that will surely come as good news to him.:D

[criom]

pharmacan-

thats insane, your plants are going to be so huge you prolly wont even be able to see the light! are you going to build it in the same room as that one or another room in your mansion? seems like you have a really big house from the pics

i cant believe they even make tights that big, a person could fit inside that friggin thing. why dont you sell them on ebay or something? id buy one.

i would very much like to see that thread, i think ive searched the forums for every cool tube post ever but i dotn think ive seen that one you speak of.

will do on the "way cool" technique, my bookmark file is getting waaay tooo big.



that is awsome that you can grow for medical reasons (awsome that they allow you, not that you have medical reasons) are you going to mount vertically for flower? or stick to the same setup as your veg cab only a bit bigger?

and wtf you gonna tell the neighbors about that one? that you run your own isp now? :)

cant wait to see that build thread...ill be printing that one out for sure

[criom]

hahaa i love buying equipment....NO :P

ive heard that temps in the 90s are ok for co2, but this summer it is really hot and it easily slips into over 105+ if i dont keep an eye on it. i dont think that is safe really...considering the wood on the outside of the closet gets so hot it almost hurts to touch.


the plants can barely handle 95+ too....last time i didnt have to trim the top fan leaves off after harvest....because they burnt off..

so yea i think i need it a little colder...



is a dehumidifier needed for 45% humidity even in a sealed room? i thought that was ideal. maybe i got bad info...

[PharmaCan]

This isn't the one I was looking for, but check out this giy's verticle garden (http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/98080-u-g-us-vertical-garden.html).

....still searching for the one....

[criom]

holy crap
that grow is nuts! it better end with an outside shot of the ufo he built that in....

my god..

[PharmaCan]

Well, I couldn't find the thread I was looking for. This guy had a closet about the same size as yours and he had four or six plants and a vertical cool tube and when he was done the entire closet was packed with plant growing right up to the cool tube.

But your closet is tall enough you'd probably want two vertical lamps. LOL that pesky equipment thing again.

My "mansion" - roflmao. I've got a three-car garage and I'm using one the spaces for my grow op. A lot of my neighbors have built offices and shops in their garages, so there's nothing out of the ordinary to be building in my garage. From my garage, the only thing you will see of the grow room will be the walls, a door and the backside of the air conditioner.

I'm not exactly sure what the grow room will be. It might be a "clean room" for semi-conductor assembly. I'm not quite sure what a semi-conductor is, or even if I'm spelling it right, but they sure sound like something that need to be put together in a "clean room, don't they?

[criom]

"But your closet is tall enough you'd probably want two vertical lamps. LOL that pesky equipment thing again." AHHHHHHRRrrrggggggg

3 car garage is still bigger then some houses ive seen...but thats an awsome space to have for sure.

ahahaha yea a "clean room" for your semi-conductor sounds right
although they could take that to mean your making porn in there....
which is another good exuse too...


vertical is starting to make more sense to me since the footprint from the tube seems to be alot wider then a normal reflector...not that ive ever seen what it looks like on a large open space.

but i like the way it looks too, like part of a space ship.

thanks for digging for that thread neway, itll pop up again i hope

[PharmaCan]

Hey Al - check out this page (http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/114977-1st-attempt-1st-post-8.html#post1472427). Rock.Steady figured out how to post pics in-line, the way you want to for your cloning photo-essay. He's the guy to ask about it.

[PharmaCan]

"

ahahaha yea a "clean room" for your semi-conductor sounds right
although they could take that to mean your making porn in there....
which is another good exuse too...

Hey, this is SoCal - one's as good as the other. :pimp:

[Al B. Fuct]

jeezus, I take the Queen's flamin' birthday off and I come back to 240 message per hour scroll! :D



Al's instructions said to take big clones so that's what I did. If this comes down to the blame game, I'm not leaving him any outs. LOL


If big clones with thick stems don't work better for you than tiny little snips with the leaves cut in half (the only POSSIBLE way cloning can work, I was told 10-odd years ago... :D ), I'l eat my hat and BBQ a couple of felt fedoras for dinner. :D Fat stems root faster and more profusely. Thing is, the old (pre-HID lighting, mainly outdoor) grow guides didn't want you taking cuttings from mainstems as those would produce the best buds. Cuttings were best taken from lowers that wouldn't produce much anyway.


the humidity stays at 45% (i dont know why) and the temps rise to about 90-100,

If you have a second hygrometer lying around, do a quick comparison, make sure none are lying. Happens from time to time.

Could also have an awful lot to do with this curve (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/Relative_Humidity.png).

Notice what happens to RH when you're approaching 38-40C (100-105F). The amount of water you need in the air to increase humidity rises logarithmically.

The air just might be able to hold all the transpired moisture the plants can put out between 3-hourly ventilations and yet not exceed 45% at 90-100F. :jawdropper: (but it's a dryyyyyyyyyy heat! :D )

Astonishing. Wouldn't have expected that.

I've run CO2 before, but always have had dedicated aircon units set for about 85F, which dealt with the humidity- or so I thought. Seems high temp alone may have been enough to control the RH... but these ops were 8 and 10kW, impossible in the spaces used without aircon, so I don't have a comparison base.



ive done one run with it and seen a 30-40% increase, so it seems like i could really pull alot if i had that last lumen/temp golden number dialed into my space.

Sounds like it!


what should the temp/humidity be at in your book?


With CO2, 85F, 90 max.


According to those much wiser than me, temps in the 90's are just fine if you are using co2. As far as humidity goes, one needs a dehumidifier in a sealed room.


If the heat produced by the dehumidifier (and they make a fair amount, they are little aircon units) doesn't tip the room over 85 avg 90 max, it'd be a solution for a ventless grow. I rely on my dehumidifier to warm up my op in winter during lights off as well as keep RH under control.

[PharmaCan]

If the heat produced by the dehumidifier (and they make a fair amount, they are little aircon units) doesn't tip the room over 85 avg 90 max, it'd be a solution for a ventless grow. I rely on my dehumidifier to warm up my op in winter during lights off as well as keep RH under control.

Walmart has a cute little a/c unit that sits entirely in the room with a small exhaust vent to outside for the excess heat. Naturally, with the cooling coils inside, it's a dehumidifier too.

[criom]

hm that curve is interesting, makes misting them seem pointless heh. i will definitely be getting a new hygrometer the one i have is beat to crap and probably off a little.
"Seems high temp alone may have been enough to control the RH." and it is a drrryyyy heat but maybe the fact that i liveo n a lake has something to do the humidity issues.

im gonna go look at these little dehumidifiers and wallmart a/c's today, ive got space in the closet above on a ledge i could stick them..

but theyd probably be more efficient at the bottom on the floor i would assume...guesss it depends on how big they are and loudness.

ug gotta go to wallmart....the HORROR

[TheGreenFog]

Good thread, guys. Good stuff for those looking to use cool tubes. In fact, I had a couple questions, and so far they have pretty much all been answered. I do have a couple things to ask/add about piping in a/c air thru your cool tubes...but unfortunately, I have not the time to type it all out right at the moment, so I'll have to come back later and add...when this thread reaches 15 pages. :eek: lol...


The Fog :rastasmoke:

[criom]

haha please do tell before it gets to 15 pages, my sanity will be gone by then.

"I've run CO2 before, but always have had dedicated aircon units set for about 85F, which dealt with the humidity- or so I thought. Seems high temp alone may have been enough to control the RH... but these ops were 8 and 10kW, impossible in the spaces used without aircon, so I don't have a comparison base."

do you have a thread on this setup you had?

[PharmaCan]

haha please do tell before it gets to 15 pages, my sanity will be gone by then.



This thread is actually an insidious plot to see which goes first - your money or your sanity. There's actually a pool going on another thread. :S2:

[Al B. Fuct]

Hey Al - check out this page (http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/114977-1st-attempt-1st-post-8.html#post1472427). Rock.Steady figured out how to post pics in-line, the way you want to for your cloning photo-essay. He's the guy to ask about it.

Thanks for that, PC!

I think the problem had to do with me being a new user here. Yesterday, "Registered+" started appearing under my username and the "image" button now appears in my WYSIWYG editor.

I have gone around the board looking for user policies, but can't find out what the breakpoint is for giving a user img posting privs, whether that's post count or reputation points. Someone will know and chime in, I'm sure. :)

[Al B. Fuct]

im gonna go look at these little dehumidifiers and wallmart a/c's today, ive got space in the closet above on a ledge i could stick them..

but theyd probably be more efficient at the bottom on the floor i would assume...guesss it depends on how big they are and loudness.

Would put it up high in the room (mine's within a foot of the ceiling)- warm air both rises and holds more water than cooler air... but enough circ fans in your room, the air will be pretty well homogenised and it won't really matter where it is.

The only downside to those portable aircon units is that even though they dump their heat via a roughly 4" vent duct (usually like dryer vent), that tube has to lead outside the op's airmass for the a/c unit to do anything at all. The upside is you get free distilled water for your plants. :)

[TheGreenFog]

I had already told you when you first posted that question in the Feedback/Suggestions section, Al B. I told you you'd have to have 50 posts. :) You now have that. Go back and read that post I made to ya, man. :)

Looking forward to the Cloning thread. Maybe it'll get Stickied.


The Fog :rastasmoke:

[Al B. Fuct]

do you have a thread on this setup you had?

Not on those ops. I was brought in as a consultant on those and they're not mine to photograph or talk too much about.

My own op doesn't have CO2 at the moment.

[Al B. Fuct]

I had already told you when you first posted that question in the Feedback/Suggestions section, Al B. I told you you'd have to have 50 posts.

That you did. :) Thanks for that. :)

[TheGreenFog]

I can hear your mouse clicking...I see a cloning tutorial in our future. :)


The Fog :rastasmoke:

[Al B. Fuct]

I do have a couple things to ask/add about piping in a/c air thru your cool tubes...

When you consider that the surface temp of an HPS tube in free airspace is going to be at least 200C (~400F), I don't think it'll make much difference to the room air temp if you pipe ambient air at 30C (~80F) or air cooled by aircon at 10C (~50F) through the cooltubes.

Even if the ambient air you pump through the cooltubes is relatively warm compared to that cooled by an aircon unit, it's not going to pick up THAT much more heat if cooled first.

I'd reserve any feed from a ducted aircon system to be put on the plants instead of being used to cool the lights, bearing in mind that there has to be an air exit from the op or return path to the a/c unit if you pipe in cooled air from a central a/c system.

[TheGreenFog]

You make an excellent point, Al.


The Fog :rastasmoke:

[PharmaCan]

Al - If you go to the FAQ and look at the part on reputation it gives you a pretty good idea of how the whole points system works on this board.

I sent you some good rep to boost yer rating. Now that you have the + next to your registered, I think you're like a full-fledged member ...except there's no such thing as a member at c.com

... it's all quite confusing - obviously designed by a dro.

[Al B. Fuct]

Yesterday, "Registered+" started appearing under my username and the "image" button now appears in my WYSIWYG editor.



aaaaaaaaand now it's gone, no image button again. :mad:

Tried to do a post with manually inserted IMG tags and that won't work either.

[PharmaCan]

aaaaaaaaand now it's gone, no image button again. :mad:

Tried to do a post with manually inserted IMG tags and that won't work either.

Click the little paperclip in the upper tool bar and see if that's what you're looking for. You need to "go advanced" to get the right toolbars.

[Al B. Fuct]

Al - If you go to the FAQ and look at the part on reputation it gives you a pretty good idea of how the whole points system works on this board.

Could you kindly send a link? I have searched everything I could find called a FAQ:

Cannabis FAQs / FAQ , Recipes, Medical Marijuana (http://cannabis.com/faqs/)
Cannabis FAQs / FAQ , Recipes, Medical Marijuana (http://cannabis.com/growing/index.html)

...and don't turn up anything using the term "reputation."


I sent you some good rep to boost yer rating.

Thanks for that. :)

[Al B. Fuct]

Click the little paperclip in the upper tool bar and see if that's what you're looking for. You need to "go advanced" to get the right toolbars.

I'm trying to create a new post, which starts in 'advanced' mode.

The paperclip button is for attachments. These appear at the end of the post in a clump.

I want to put images inline with the text, such as I have done in this post on GC. (http://forum.grasscity.com/grow-journals/156518-batch-clones-rockwool.html#post1648974)

A photoessay/tutorial makes more sense and is easier to read if the photos appear embedded with the text describing them instead of all the images appearing at the end of the post in a clump.

GC and cannabis.com forums as well as several others use the same forum software- I think it's vBulletin. Disallowing image posting inline is an admin setting- and it's shut off, at least for me, on cannabis.com.

[Al B. Fuct]

Hey Al - check out this page (http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/114977-1st-attempt-1st-post-8.html#post1472427). Rock.Steady figured out how to post pics in-line, the way you want to for your cloning photo-essay. He's the guy to ask about it.

Will do that, but was going to try to contact that user via a PM... and promptly found that there's no private msg facility available- at least to me. Am I missing something here?

[PharmaCan]

Al - the rep thread is in this section (http://boards.cannabis.com/feedback-suggestions/). The thread itself is here. (http://boards.cannabis.com/feedback-suggestions/109162-our-reputation-system-faq.html)

BTW - The rules say 50 posts + 2 weeks membership to be able to post photos - but I think you can get approved quicker with rep points.

But - the Mods watch that section in the first link above and I bet if you posted a thread to the mods with a link to your cloning thread, they'd probably activate your photo privileges right away. The mods here seem pretty reasonable and pretty anxious to spread good info so, it's worth a shot.

[PharmaCan]

Will do that, but was going to try to contact that user via a PM... and promptly found that there's no private msg facility available- at least to me. Am I missing something here?

Missing nothing - No PMs on this site.

Damn dude - get over this "victim's attitude" will ya. :D

[Al B. Fuct]

Missing nothing - No PMs on this site.

hmm, ok...



Damn dude - get over this "victim's attitude" will ya. :DI'm sure you're jesting a bit- I'm not terribly buried in victimhood, thanks.

However, it does seem timely to mention that this board's admin deleted my attempts to sign up 5 times before they finally approved it, but not before I sent several queries via the 'contact us' form asking why my signups were being deleted (and admin replied to none of those). Why? Beats the crap outta me, man. Maybe they didn't like my rather fuct username. :D

[Al B. Fuct]

I bet if you posted a thread to the mods with a link to your cloning thread, they'd probably activate your photo privileges right away. The mods here seem pretty reasonable and pretty anxious to spread good info so, it's worth a shot.

I've already sent a query last week via the 'contact us' form asking about this- and there has been no reply from admin. I just sent another query a few minutes ago, now that I have the 50 posts and the 'Registered+' thing happening.

I'll follow your suggestion anyway.

[Al B. Fuct]

ok, the problem with imgs for me must be that I haven't been a user for 2 weeks yet (http://boards.cannabis.com/feedback-suggestions/114401-new-member-privs.html). I'll try again later.

[PharmaCan]

Al - of course I was 100% kidding about the victim thing.

Don't know what to tell ya about the other - this site doesn't seem real pc about usernames, so???

I never used the "contact us" form. I had a thread deleted and wondered why and I asked and Surrey's Princess posted a reply within about 30 minutes.

[Al B. Fuct]

Yeah, I don't know what happened with the signup thing, nor am I all that stressed about it. I run a couple of non-dope related forums myself and I've inadvertently deleted real signups when weeding out the pharmaspammer signups, so anything could have happened.

[criom]

thanks for the info on the dehumid/ac units...the ability to produce distilled water would be almost worth it on its own...

ima have to read up on this, as the tap water here isnt so great. prolly has a lot of prozac in it or something....i know for sure it has low magnezium and zinc. havnt called the water company yet to ask for their analysis...

hopefully if i can produce my own distilled i never will


on another note if anyone still cares BGH gave me a quote for a fully assembled, wired, and 5 year warranty'd cooltube/600W sunsystem10 for 380$, which is the same price from high tech garden supply for a 1000W/agrobrite ballast/cooltube setup with shipping.

but as you all have said the heat from a 1000 is a helluvalot more then a 600 so i think ive made my choice.

now to sell some kidneys!

[PharmaCan]

now to sell some kidneys!

Uhhhh - I'm no doctor, but I think you'd better start with only one. :stoned:

[criom]

haha its okay ill just hook some DIY ducting to the other organs...let them figure it out

[Al B. Fuct]

the tap water here isnt so great. prolly has a lot of prozac in it or something...

hahahahahahaha :D


but as you all have said the heat from a 1000 is a helluvalot more then a 600 so i think ive made my choice.

wellllllll.... if you can cool a 600, chances are you can cool a 1000... and it's 90K lumens vs 160K lumens- and lumenz meanz budz (apologies to Heinz beans UK).

[criom]

"wellllllll.... if you can cool a 600, chances are you can cool a 1000" would that really make a difference in a smaller space?

i thought the extra lumens would be wasted unless i was using at least 5x5x7 space...

maybe not?

[Al B. Fuct]

Is your intended lighted floorspace 5x5 or 5x7?

Either way, the Rule-O'-Thumbâ?¢ for HPS in flowering is 50W/sq ft. If your plantspace is 5'x5', that's 25sf, which by the Rule-O'-Thumbâ?¢ would want 1250W of HPS.

[criom]

no neither is, but it could be with enough pvc piping to create a room within a room....

well according to that rule o thumb trademarked madness i cannot handle such a large area anyway.

hadnt heard that before actually

[PharmaCan]

But see, if you are using a verticle cooltube then all that square footage stuff goes out the window because you are bradcasting the light in a completely different way. You are using the entire bulb effectively, whereas in Al's computation you have to allow for the fact that half the light is going up and then being reflected back.

I dunno - but 1000watts sounds better than 600 to me.

[Al B. Fuct]

Yep, 50W/sf is the generally accepted bell-curve centrepoint for HPS.

Tents of pandafilm within a room work great. They don't necessarily need verticals; a rectangle of 2x4 screwed to the ceiling or joists above, with a sheet of film over the top and the perimeter wrapped with film make a fine, reflective room-within-a-room. Nice technique for basements, attics, garages, etc.

[Al B. Fuct]

But see, if you are using a verticle cooltube then all that square footage stuff goes out the window because you are bradcasting the light in a completely different way. You are using the entire bulb effectively, whereas in Al's computation you have to allow for the fact that half the light is going up and then being reflected back.


Totally right, great point.

I'm also familiar with the 'stadium' or 'coliseum' type of vertical grow op you're describing, where the light is in the centre and the plants surround it. This lights the plants from one side as opposed to relatively evenly from above. I'm sure the plant phototropes to deal with one-side lighting- to some degree. There will always be 180 degrees of each bud in total shade.

However, at the end of the day, I think it's 6 o' one, half-dozen of the other. The more conventional method, with an efficient batwing reflector and flood trays (or other horizontal method) would yield relatively equivalently with less mechanical complexity.

[Al B. Fuct]

Further to that, SoG exploits the normal growing habit of cannabis. The mainstem growing tips will always produce the biggest, most resinous buds. Side branches produce smaller, less dense buds, begging the question why one would side-light and encourage such growth.

The SoG technique uses a relatively large number of small plants grown for their mainstem tips only. Branching on the lower 1/3 of the plant is pruned off in wks 1 & 3. This forms a canopy of buds well suited to the max radiation pattern of horizontal-tube, batwing reflector type systems.

[criom]

ah "less mechical complexity" those are soothing words.

since i do a scrog i guess i couldnt really do vertical then because i cant rotate the plants.

unless i could also wall mount plants too...which sounds like a fire heh


pandafilm looks very useful but every only seems to sell it in rolls of 100 feet for 90$.

weird there arnt half orders anywhere

[PharmaCan]

ah "less mechical complexity" those are soothing words.

since i do a scrog i guess i couldnt really do vertical then because i cant rotate the plants.

unless i could also wall mount plants too...which sounds like a fire heh


pandafilm looks very useful but every only seems to sell it in rolls of 100 feet for 90$.

weird there arnt half orders anywhere

Looking at this typing, I'm wondering if you've been out selling blood this morning. When you do that, you probably should limit it to 3-4 pints per day. LOL

[jus4this]

Hey, Al. B Fuct. I read a couple of your posts... and you know too much. Youre now my idol. :D

[Al B. Fuct]

pandafilm looks very useful but every only seems to sell it in rolls of 100 feet for 90$.


Some hydro shops will sell you cut pieces of pandafilm but they usually jack the hell out of the price for small lots. It's great stuff, well worth buying, but I agree, a whole roll is a lot. I didn't even use a whole roll when I recently rebuilt my op. Still coming up with inventive new uses for leftover pandafilm. Makes great weedmat for my flower beds. :D


Hey, Al. B Fuct. I read a couple of your posts... and you know too much.

cripes, I hope this doesn't mean you have to kill me now... :D


Youre now my idol. :D

Thanks for the compliment... but anyone who has run a grow op for several years will probably tell you anything I would.