Should the U.S. have began started the current war in Iraq

[Sedater18]

Simple poll, yes or no?

[Sedater18]

I made a typo in the title of the thread, sorry.

[NowhereMan]

well i dont think the usa Started any war in iraq
that shit been going on forever
should they be still in iraq,,,,no
should they have kicked out saddam ,,yes
shoulld they do what we the poeple want.,yes
do they, no


happy new year

[Torog]

Simple poll, yes or no?Yes

When America was attacked without overt provocation,on September 11, 2001,it constituted an act of War..at that point-we were within our rights--to respond in kind or worse..to anyone or any nation deemed an immediate threat. Given saddam's stated intent to attack the US,and that the US was already under attack in Iraq,in the No-fly zones..yes- We were justified and supported by,a unanimous vote of the UN Security Council--to use force on saddam,in order to gain compliance with pre-existing UN resolutions.

There are strategic considerations,that also weigh in on this issue,but I ain't gonna go into those right now.

Have a good one...Torog

[Humboldt215]

Support the Troops!!


down with the islamo-terrorists

[BuD MaN]

We were justified and supported by,a unanimous vote of the UN Security Council--to use force on saddam,in order to gain compliance with pre-existing UN resolutions.


Yeah, like 2 countries out of how many...

If you love the army fellaz so much why arnt you fighting...Who says your right anyways

[BuD MaN]

down with the islamo-terrorists

Just in those words youve shown how little you know and plain stupidity. your government has been associating with them over oil for decades and without those "islamo-terrorists", the western world would have a small percentage of the oil available today...The American government is very good at terrorising poorer countries. And for a country who donates a seedy $25M to the tsunami dissaster in Asia and then spends how many billions on going to war to "liberate" a country by blowing it up. Thats before it was accused ov being seedy and then putting in $300M more...

[Torog]

Yeah, like 2 countries out of how many...

If you love the army fellaz so much why arnt you fighting...Who says your right anyways
Howdy Bud MaN,

There are 15 members of the UN Security Council,they all voted unanimously to authorize force-in regards to saddam and Iraq.

I ain't fightin-cuz I'm too old and crippled..but being a vet-I want to fight..because I believe the Liberty is for all-not just for those who already have it.

I bet that you're able-bodied..why aren't you fighting ? Oh yeah,I forgot-you've had Liberty all your life..you take it for granted..and it really doesn't mean that much to you.

[NowhereMan]

Yeah, like 2 countries out of how many...

If you love the army fellaz so much why arnt you fighting...Who says your right anyways

love?
fight?

.errrrrnTTT.
was in the army once cant say i loved it, :eek:
dint have to shoot anyone :D and im glad but i would have :p if called on to be in line of fire and needed to shoot some Enemies of my goverment who had me at thier disposal for just that occasion.


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0862135.html

learn a little
The United Nations
Founded after World War II by 51 "peace-loving states" combined to oppose future aggression, the UN now counts nearly 200 member nations, including its newest members, Nauru, Kiribati, and Tonga in 1999, Tuvalu and Yugoslavia in 2000, and Switzerland and East Timor in 2002.

Security Council
The Security Council is the primary instrument for establishing and maintaining international peace. Its main purpose is to prevent war by settling disputes between nations. Under the charter, the council is permitted to dispatch a UN force to stop aggression. All member nations undertake to make available armed forces, assistance, and facilities to maintain international peace and security
The Security Council has 15 members. There are five permanent members: the United States, the Russian Federation, Britain, France, and China; and ten temporary members elected by the General Assembly for two-year terms, from five different regions of the world. Voting on procedural matters requires a nine-vote majority to carry. However, on questions of substance, the vote of each of the five permanent members is required. As of Jan. 2004, the ten elected nonpermanent members were Algeria, Angola, Benin, Brazil, Chile, Germany, Pakistan, the Philippines, Romania, and Spain. In Jan. 2005 the terms of Angola, Chile, Germany, Pakistan, and Spain will expire.


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0909401.html



as far as iraq goes

here is a lil info

Iraq War Timeline
Jan. 29, 2002: In his State of the Union address, President Bush calls Iraq part of an â??axis of evil,â?� and vows that the U.S. â??will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons.â?�
June 2: President Bush publicly introduces the new defense doctrine of preemption in a speech at West Point. Sometimes, he asserts, the U.S. must strike first against another state to prevent a potential threat from growing into an actual one.
Sept. 12: President Bush addresses the UN, challenging it to swiftly enforce its own resolutions against Iraq. If not, Bush contends, the U.S. must act on its own.
Oct. 11: Congress authorizes an attack on Iraq.
Nov. 8: The UN Security Council unanimously approves resolution 1441 imposing tough new arms inspections on Iraq.
Nov. 18: UN weapons inspectors return to Iraq for the first time in almost four years.
Jan. 28, 2003: In his State of the Union address, President Bush announces that he is ready to attack Iraq even without a UN mandate.
Feb. 14: In a UN weapons inspections report on Iraq, chief inspector Hans Blix indicates that slight progress has been made in Iraq's cooperation with the weapons team.
Feb. 24â??March 14: The U.S. and Britain's lobbying efforts among UN Security Council members to garner support for a strike on Iraq yield only two supporters (Spain and Bulgaria).
March 20: The war against Iraq begins 5:30 a.m. Baghdad time (9:30 p.m. EST, March 19), when the U.S. launches Operation Iraqi Freedom.
March 21: The major phase of the war begins with heavy aerial attacks on Baghdad and other cities. The campaign, publicized in advance by the Pentagon as an overwhelming barrage meant to instill â??shock and awe,â?� is actually more restrained.
March 24: Troops march within 50 miles of Baghdad. They encounter strong resistance from Iraqi soldiers and paramilitary fighters along the way.
March 26: About 1,000 paratroopers land in Kurdish-controlled Iraq to open a northern front.
March 30: U.S. Marines and Army troops launch first attack on Iraq's Republican Guard, about 65 miles outside Baghdad. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld deflects criticism that the U.S. has not deployed enough Army ground troops in Iraq.
April 2: Special operations forces rescue Pfc. Jessica Lynch from a hospital in Nasiriya. She was one of 12 soldiers captured by Iraqi troops on March 23.
April 5: U.S. tanks roll into the Iraqi capital and engage in firefights with Iraqi troops. Resistance weaker than anticipated. Heavy Iraqi casualties.
April 7: British forces take control of Basra, Iraq's second-largest city.
April 9: Baghdad falls to U.S. forces. Looters pillage government buildings, museums, hospitals, and stores. Statue of Saddam Hussein symbolically toppled.
April 11: Kirkuk falls to Kurdish fighters.
April 13: Marines rescue five U.S. soldiers captured by Iraqi troops on March 23 in Nasiriya, and two pilots shot down on March 24 near Karbala.
April 15: Gen. Jay Garner is appointed by the U.S. to run post-war Iraq.
May 1: President Bush declares an end to major combat operations.
May 12: Diplomat Paul Bremer replaces Jay Garner as Iraqi administrator.
June 15â??29: About 1,300 troops launch Operation Desert Scorpion, combatting organized Iraqi resistance against American troops near Falluja.
July 13: Iraq's interim governing council, composed of 25 Iraqis appointed by American and British officials, is inaugurated. American administrator Paul Bremer, however, retains ultimate authority.
July 16: Gen. John Abizaid, commander of allied forces in Iraq, calls continued attacks on coalition troops a â??guerrilla-type campaignâ?� and says soldiers who will replace current troops may be deployed for year-long tours.
July 22: Saddam Hussein's sons, Uday and Qusay Hussein, die in firefight in a Mosul palace.
Aug. 19: Suicide bombing destroys UN headquarters in Baghdad, killing 24, including top envoy Sergio Vieira de Mello.
Aug. 29: A bomb kills one of Iraq's most important Shiite leaders, Ayatollah Muhammad Bakr al-Hakim, among about 80 others.
Sept. 7: President Bush announces that $87 billion is needed to cover additional military and reconstruction costs.
Oct. 23â??24: The Madrid Conference, an international conference to raise funds for Iraq's reconstruction, yields $33 billion but falls short of the target of $56 billion.
Oct. 27: Four coordinated suicide attacks in Baghdad kill 43 and wound more than 200. Targets include the headquarters of the Red Crescent and three police stations. Insurgents increasingly victimize civilians, Iraqi security forces, and aid agencies, not simply U.S. troops.
Nov. 2: Iraqi guerrillas shoot down an American helicopter, killing 16 U.S. soldiers and injuring 21 others. Additional attacks this month make it the bloodiest since the war began: at least 75 U.S. soldiers die.
Nov. 14: The Bush administration reverses policy in a deal with the Iraqi Governing Council, agreeing to transfer power to an interim government much sooner, in 2004.
Dec. 9: Directive issued by Paul Wolfowitz, deputy secretary of defense, bars France, Germany, and Russia from bidding on lucrative contracts for rebuilding Iraq, creating a diplomatic furor.
Dec. 13: Saddam Hussein is captured by U.S. troops. He is found hiding in a hole near his hometown of Tikrit and surrenders without a fight.
Jan. 11, 2004: The Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the most influential Shiite cleric in Iraq, says members of the country's interim government must be selected by direct vote. He opposes the U.S. plan to hold regional caucuses. The U.S. has argued that it would be impossible to ensure free and safe elections on such a tight timetableâ??the U.S. plans to hand control of the government to Iraqis on June 30.
Jan. 15: Thousands of Shiites hold a peaceful demonstration in Basra in support of direct elections.
Jan. 19: The U.S. asks the UN to intercede in the dispute over the elections process in Iraq.
Jan. 28: David Kay, the former head of the U.S. weapons inspection teams in Iraq, informs a senate committee that no WMD have been found in Iraq and that prewar intelligence was â??almost all wrongâ?� about Saddam Hussein's arsenal.
Feb. 2: Under pressure from both sides of the political aisle, President Bush calls for an independent commission to study intelligence failures.
Feb. 10: About 54 Iraqis are killed in a car bombing while applying for jobs at a police station. The next day an attack kills about 47 outside an army recruiting center. Iraqi security forces become a regular target of insurgents.
Feb. 23: UN envoy Lakhdar Brahimi issues a report concluding that the earliest that credible, direct elections could be held is early 2005.
March 2: Suicide attacks in Karbala on Shiite Islam's most holy feast day kill more than 85 and wound 233 others. It is believed that the perpetrators are attempting to foment unrest between Shiites and Sunnis.
March 8: The Iraqi Governing Council signs interim constitution.
March 31: Iraqi mob kills and mutilates four American civilian contract workers and drags them through the streets of Falluja.
April 4: U.S. troops begin assault on Falluja in response to March 31 killings. Coordinated attacks by Shiites are launched in the cities of Kufa, Karbala, Najaf, al-Kut, and Sadr City. The militias are led by Moktada al-Sadr.
April 9: U.S. contract worker Thomas Hamill is taken hostage. In all, more than 20 foreigners have been kidnapped in Iraq, and hostage-taking becomes a regular tactic of the insurgents.
April 15: The Bush administration agrees to a UN proposal to replace the Iraqi Governing Council with a caretaker government when the U.S. returns sovereignty to Iraqis on June 30.
April 22: U.S. announces that some Iraqi Baath Party officials who had been forced out of their jobs after the fall of Saddam Hussein will be allowed to resume their positions. About 400,000 lost their jobs, draining Iraq of skilled workers.
April 30: The appalling physical and sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad comes to light when photographs are released by the U.S. media. The images spark outrage around the world.
May 8: Nicholas Berg, an American contractor, is beheaded by Iraqi militants. Beheadings of foreign workers become a regular terrorist tactic.
May 17: A suicide bomber kills the head of the Governing Council, Izzedin Salim, and six others.
May 27: After seven weeks of fighting in Najaf, U.S. forces and militias loyal to al-Sadr reach a truce.
May 28: Iyad Allawi is designated prime minister of the Iraqi interim government. A Shiite neurologist, Allawi has close ties to the CIA.
June 1: Ghazi al-Yawar, a Sunni, is chosen president, a ceremonial post. The Governing Council decides to dissolve itself immediately rather than wait for the official handover of sovereignty.
June 16: The 9/11 Commission concludes in its report that there is â??no credible evidence that Iraq and al-Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States.â?� The link between al-Qaeda and Iraq was one of the justifications for the war.
June 28: In a surprise move, the United States transfers power back to Iraqis two days early. The ceremony was held in secret to thwart attacks by Iraqi insurgents.
July 7: Prime Minister Allawi signs a law permitting him to impose martial law.
July 9: The Senate Intelligence Committee releases a unanimous, bipartisan â??Report on Pre-War Intelligence on Iraq,â?� harshly criticizing the CIA and other American intelligence agencies for the â??mischaracterization of intelligence.â?� â??Most of the major key judgmentsâ?� on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction were â??either overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence report.â?� It also concluded that there was no â??established formal relationshipâ?� between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein.
Aug. 24: The Pentagon-sponsored Schlesinger report's investigation into the Abu Ghraib scandal calls the prisoner abuse acts of â??brutality and purposeless sadism,â?� and rejects the idea that the abuse was simply the work of a few aberrant soldiers. It asserts that there were â??fundamental failures throughout all levels of command, from the soldiers on the ground to Central Command and to the Pentagon.â?�
Aug. 27: A bloody, three-week battle in Najaf between U.S. forces and militia of militant cleric al-Sadr ends in August when Shiite cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani negotiates a settlement.
Sept. 7: U.S. death toll in Iraq reaches 1,000; about 7,000 soldiers have been wounded. In August, attacks on American forces reached their highest level since the beginning of the war, an average of 87 per day. No official record of Iraqi civilian deaths is kept, but as of this date estimates range from 12,000 to 14,000 (Iraq Body Count).
Sept. 15: The Bush administration requests that the Senate divert $3.4 billion of the $18.4 billion Iraq reconstruction budget to improving security in the country. The worsening security situationâ??with pockets of Iraq essentially under the control of insurgentsâ??threatens to disrupt national elections, scheduled for January. Republican and Democratic senators alike harshly criticize the request as a sign that the American campaign in Iraq has been poorly executed. Senators also denounce the slow progress in rebuilding Iraq: just 6% ($1 billion) of the reconstruction money approved by Congress has in fact been spent.
Sept. 15: In a BBC interview, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan says the war against Iraq was illegal and violated the UN Charter. The U.S., UK, and Australia vigorously reject his conclusion.






so happy new year

[juggalo420]

there is zero reason to be in iraq, they didnt attack us on 9/11, they never killed a single U.S citizen, the al-quada link is proven to be bullshit, no wmd's found, no proof wmd programs where even in develeopment, and about how saddam was a bad man no shit but the U.S goverment was working with him when he gassed people and we didint do shit when he actually filled those mass graves like 10 yrs ago, and the "liberating iraqis" line is a total lie everyone knows we didnt start the war because of that ,that line is being used as no other real reason we went to war is found legitimate.

[psychocat]

there is zero reason to be in iraq, they didnt attack us on 9/11, they never killed a single U.S citizen, the al-quada link is proven to be bullshit, no wmd's found, no proof wmd programs where even in develeopment, and about how saddam was a bad man no shit but the U.S goverment was working with him when he gassed people and we didint do shit when he actually filled those mass graves like 10 yrs ago, and the "liberating iraqis" line is a total lie everyone knows we didnt start the war because of that ,that line is being used as no other real reason we went to war is found legitimate.

Add to this the US helped Saddam gain power in the first place , Taliban trained by the CIA and Americas meddling in the affairs of "enemy" states and it isn't suprising they are reaping what they sowed.
For some bizarre reason (paranoia) America sees enemies everywhere and doesn't seem happy unless they are throwing their weight around.

[Reefer Rogue]

Yes

the US was already under attack in Iraq,in the No-fly zones..

i wonder why? :confused: if saddam was such a big threat to his people and somehow to the us which i dont see how he was at all. then why didnt they take saddam out all those years ago when he killed all of his own people? was that with mustard gas i dunno im a little hazy with the details. or was that was the gulf war was about lol i have no idea what im talking about. but no i dont think they shudve invaded but there stuck there now and they have to stay there and keep there promise to rebuild it.

[Sedater18]

I bet that you're able-bodied..why aren't you fighting ? Oh yeah,I forgot-you've had Liberty all your life..you take it for granted..and it really doesn't mean that much to you.

I would fight to defend my nation in a hearbeat. I would have fought in World War II without hesitation (I might not have signed up if I was in my 30's and trying to support my wife and 2 little kids, but if I was drafted I would have fought.) Otherwise I would have signed up immediatly. The fighting in Iraq, like the conflict in Vietnam, is not defending our country, and I know that for a fact. You conservatives keep changing your reason for going in there. "They have Weapons of Mass Destruction!" "Sir, no weapons have been found. Iran came out and said that they are currently developing nuclear weapons, why did we attack Iraq on a hunch if Iran announced that they are making progress with their nuclear program and will soon have the ability to craft nuclear weapons?" "Shut up, bitch, Saddam Hussien was behind the 9/11 attacks, and Iraq harbors terrorists!" "Sir, the hijackers were members of Al-qaeda, recieved their training in Afghanistan, and were from Saudi-Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Germany. Osama Bin Laden was the main man behind the attacks. Iraq harbors not even an 1/8 as many terrorists as Saudi-Arabia and Iran. We did a good job in dealing with Afghanistan however." "I told you to stop talking. Saddam Hussien is a brutal dictator and we liberated the Iraqi people!" "Well, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussien is a horrible despot and a very evil man, but "liberating" the Iraqi people has not turned out as you had planned. We have currently declared marshall law in Iraq. The terrorists, wich have now grown hugely in number and power since the invasion, are still doing horrible things to our people as well as the Iraqi citizens." "I have no problem putting people to death" "Yes Mr.President, sorry Mr. President."

[Sedater18]

Torog, were you pro-Vietnam?

[sensiskunk]

Of course he was, he does anything people tell him to.

[NowhereMan]

Torog, were you pro-Vietnam?

apples and oranges







only few will have a clue what i said

[Sedater18]

Nowhere did you mean I shouldn't compare apples and organes?

[BuD MaN]

Howdy Bud MaN,

There are 15 members of the UN Security Council,they all voted unanimously to authorize force-in regards to saddam and Iraq.

I ain't fightin-cuz I'm too old and crippled..but being a vet-I want to fight..because I believe the Liberty is for all-not just for those who already have it.

I bet that you're able-bodied..why aren't you fighting ? Oh yeah,I forgot-you've had Liberty all your life..you take it for granted..and it really doesn't mean that much to you.

I would die before I fight for any western country, I hate this country and yours and people like you. I cant wait to be old enough to get out of this country and what you call "liberty" that for 15 years I have been alive has stunk of corruption in this and your country. "because I believe the Liberty is for all-not just for those who already have it", your saying liberty for all, so lets go join the army and go murder some civilians in a poor country and tell the world we're liberating them...

[BuD MaN]

love?
fight?

.errrrrnTTT.
was in the army once cant say i loved it, :eek:
dint have to shoot anyone :D and im glad but i would have :p if called on to be in line of fire and needed to shoot some Enemies of my goverment who had me at thier disposal for just that occasion.


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0862135.html

learn a little
The United Nations
Founded after World War II by 51 "peace-loving states" combined to oppose future aggression, the UN now counts nearly 200 member nations, including its newest members, Nauru, Kiribati, and Tonga in 1999, Tuvalu and Yugoslavia in 2000, and Switzerland and East Timor in 2002.

Security Council
The Security Council is the primary instrument for establishing and maintaining international peace. Its main purpose is to prevent war by settling disputes between nations. Under the charter, the council is permitted to dispatch a UN force to stop aggression. All member nations undertake to make available armed forces, assistance, and facilities to maintain international peace and security
The Security Council has 15 members. There are five permanent members: the United States, the Russian Federation, Britain, France, and China; and ten temporary members elected by the General Assembly for two-year terms, from five different regions of the world. Voting on procedural matters requires a nine-vote majority to carry. However, on questions of substance, the vote of each of the five permanent members is required. As of Jan. 2004, the ten elected nonpermanent members were Algeria, Angola, Benin, Brazil, Chile, Germany, Pakistan, the Philippines, Romania, and Spain. In Jan. 2005 the terms of Angola, Chile, Germany, Pakistan, and Spain will expire.


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0909401.html



as far as iraq goes

here is a lil info

Iraq War Timeline
Jan. 29, 2002: In his State of the Union address, President Bush calls Iraq part of an â??axis of evil,â?� and vows that the U.S. â??will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons.â?�
June 2: President Bush publicly introduces the new defense doctrine of preemption in a speech at West Point. Sometimes, he asserts, the U.S. must strike first against another state to prevent a potential threat from growing into an actual one.
Sept. 12: President Bush addresses the UN, challenging it to swiftly enforce its own resolutions against Iraq. If not, Bush contends, the U.S. must act on its own.
Oct. 11: Congress authorizes an attack on Iraq.
Nov. 8: The UN Security Council unanimously approves resolution 1441 imposing tough new arms inspections on Iraq.
Nov. 18: UN weapons inspectors return to Iraq for the first time in almost four years.
Jan. 28, 2003: In his State of the Union address, President Bush announces that he is ready to attack Iraq even without a UN mandate.
Feb. 14: In a UN weapons inspections report on Iraq, chief inspector Hans Blix indicates that slight progress has been made in Iraq's cooperation with the weapons team.
Feb. 24â??March 14: The U.S. and Britain's lobbying efforts among UN Security Council members to garner support for a strike on Iraq yield only two supporters (Spain and Bulgaria).
March 20: The war against Iraq begins 5:30 a.m. Baghdad time (9:30 p.m. EST, March 19), when the U.S. launches Operation Iraqi Freedom.
March 21: The major phase of the war begins with heavy aerial attacks on Baghdad and other cities. The campaign, publicized in advance by the Pentagon as an overwhelming barrage meant to instill â??shock and awe,â?� is actually more restrained.
March 24: Troops march within 50 miles of Baghdad. They encounter strong resistance from Iraqi soldiers and paramilitary fighters along the way.
March 26: About 1,000 paratroopers land in Kurdish-controlled Iraq to open a northern front.
March 30: U.S. Marines and Army troops launch first attack on Iraq's Republican Guard, about 65 miles outside Baghdad. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld deflects criticism that the U.S. has not deployed enough Army ground troops in Iraq.
April 2: Special operations forces rescue Pfc. Jessica Lynch from a hospital in Nasiriya. She was one of 12 soldiers captured by Iraqi troops on March 23.
April 5: U.S. tanks roll into the Iraqi capital and engage in firefights with Iraqi troops. Resistance weaker than anticipated. Heavy Iraqi casualties.
April 7: British forces take control of Basra, Iraq's second-largest city.
April 9: Baghdad falls to U.S. forces. Looters pillage government buildings, museums, hospitals, and stores. Statue of Saddam Hussein symbolically toppled.
April 11: Kirkuk falls to Kurdish fighters.
April 13: Marines rescue five U.S. soldiers captured by Iraqi troops on March 23 in Nasiriya, and two pilots shot down on March 24 near Karbala.
April 15: Gen. Jay Garner is appointed by the U.S. to run post-war Iraq.
May 1: President Bush declares an end to major combat operations.
May 12: Diplomat Paul Bremer replaces Jay Garner as Iraqi administrator.
June 15â??29: About 1,300 troops launch Operation Desert Scorpion, combatting organized Iraqi resistance against American troops near Falluja.
July 13: Iraq's interim governing council, composed of 25 Iraqis appointed by American and British officials, is inaugurated. American administrator Paul Bremer, however, retains ultimate authority.
July 16: Gen. John Abizaid, commander of allied forces in Iraq, calls continued attacks on coalition troops a â??guerrilla-type campaignâ?� and says soldiers who will replace current troops may be deployed for year-long tours.
July 22: Saddam Hussein's sons, Uday and Qusay Hussein, die in firefight in a Mosul palace.
Aug. 19: Suicide bombing destroys UN headquarters in Baghdad, killing 24, including top envoy Sergio Vieira de Mello.
Aug. 29: A bomb kills one of Iraq's most important Shiite leaders, Ayatollah Muhammad Bakr al-Hakim, among about 80 others.
Sept. 7: President Bush announces that $87 billion is needed to cover additional military and reconstruction costs.
Oct. 23â??24: The Madrid Conference, an international conference to raise funds for Iraq's reconstruction, yields $33 billion but falls short of the target of $56 billion.
Oct. 27: Four coordinated suicide attacks in Baghdad kill 43 and wound more than 200. Targets include the headquarters of the Red Crescent and three police stations. Insurgents increasingly victimize civilians, Iraqi security forces, and aid agencies, not simply U.S. troops.
Nov. 2: Iraqi guerrillas shoot down an American helicopter, killing 16 U.S. soldiers and injuring 21 others. Additional attacks this month make it the bloodiest since the war began: at least 75 U.S. soldiers die.
Nov. 14: The Bush administration reverses policy in a deal with the Iraqi Governing Council, agreeing to transfer power to an interim government much sooner, in 2004.
Dec. 9: Directive issued by Paul Wolfowitz, deputy secretary of defense, bars France, Germany, and Russia from bidding on lucrative contracts for rebuilding Iraq, creating a diplomatic furor.
Dec. 13: Saddam Hussein is captured by U.S. troops. He is found hiding in a hole near his hometown of Tikrit and surrenders without a fight.
Jan. 11, 2004: The Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the most influential Shiite cleric in Iraq, says members of the country's interim government must be selected by direct vote. He opposes the U.S. plan to hold regional caucuses. The U.S. has argued that it would be impossible to ensure free and safe elections on such a tight timetableâ??the U.S. plans to hand control of the government to Iraqis on June 30.
Jan. 15: Thousands of Shiites hold a peaceful demonstration in Basra in support of direct elections.
Jan. 19: The U.S. asks the UN to intercede in the dispute over the elections process in Iraq.
Jan. 28: David Kay, the former head of the U.S. weapons inspection teams in Iraq, informs a senate committee that no WMD have been found in Iraq and that prewar intelligence was â??almost all wrongâ?� about Saddam Hussein's arsenal.
Feb. 2: Under pressure from both sides of the political aisle, President Bush calls for an independent commission to study intelligence failures.
Feb. 10: About 54 Iraqis are killed in a car bombing while applying for jobs at a police station. The next day an attack kills about 47 outside an army recruiting center. Iraqi security forces become a regular target of insurgents.
Feb. 23: UN envoy Lakhdar Brahimi issues a report concluding that the earliest that credible, direct elections could be held is early 2005.
March 2: Suicide attacks in Karbala on Shiite Islam's most holy feast day kill more than 85 and wound 233 others. It is believed that the perpetrators are attempting to foment unrest between Shiites and Sunnis.
March 8: The Iraqi Governing Council signs interim constitution.
March 31: Iraqi mob kills and mutilates four American civilian contract workers and drags them through the streets of Falluja.
April 4: U.S. troops begin assault on Falluja in response to March 31 killings. Coordinated attacks by Shiites are launched in the cities of Kufa, Karbala, Najaf, al-Kut, and Sadr City. The militias are led by Moktada al-Sadr.
April 9: U.S. contract worker Thomas Hamill is taken hostage. In all, more than 20 foreigners have been kidnapped in Iraq, and hostage-taking becomes a regular tactic of the insurgents.
April 15: The Bush administration agrees to a UN proposal to replace the Iraqi Governing Council with a caretaker government when the U.S. returns sovereignty to Iraqis on June 30.
April 22: U.S. announces that some Iraqi Baath Party officials who had been forced out of their jobs after the fall of Saddam Hussein will be allowed to resume their positions. About 400,000 lost their jobs, draining Iraq of skilled workers.
April 30: The appalling physical and sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad comes to light when photographs are released by the U.S. media. The images spark outrage around the world.
May 8: Nicholas Berg, an American contractor, is beheaded by Iraqi militants. Beheadings of foreign workers become a regular terrorist tactic.
May 17: A suicide bomber kills the head of the Governing Council, Izzedin Salim, and six others.
May 27: After seven weeks of fighting in Najaf, U.S. forces and militias loyal to al-Sadr reach a truce.
May 28: Iyad Allawi is designated prime minister of the Iraqi interim government. A Shiite neurologist, Allawi has close ties to the CIA.
June 1: Ghazi al-Yawar, a Sunni, is chosen president, a ceremonial post. The Governing Council decides to dissolve itself immediately rather than wait for the official handover of sovereignty.
June 16: The 9/11 Commission concludes in its report that there is â??no credible evidence that Iraq and al-Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States.â?� The link between al-Qaeda and Iraq was one of the justifications for the war.
June 28: In a surprise move, the United States transfers power back to Iraqis two days early. The ceremony was held in secret to thwart attacks by Iraqi insurgents.
July 7: Prime Minister Allawi signs a law permitting him to impose martial law.
July 9: The Senate Intelligence Committee releases a unanimous, bipartisan â??Report on Pre-War Intelligence on Iraq,â?� harshly criticizing the CIA and other American intelligence agencies for the â??mischaracterization of intelligence.â?� â??Most of the major key judgmentsâ?� on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction were â??either overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence report.â?� It also concluded that there was no â??established formal relationshipâ?� between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein.
Aug. 24: The Pentagon-sponsored Schlesinger report's investigation into the Abu Ghraib scandal calls the prisoner abuse acts of â??brutality and purposeless sadism,â?� and rejects the idea that the abuse was simply the work of a few aberrant soldiers. It asserts that there were â??fundamental failures throughout all levels of command, from the soldiers on the ground to Central Command and to the Pentagon.â?�
Aug. 27: A bloody, three-week battle in Najaf between U.S. forces and militia of militant cleric al-Sadr ends in August when Shiite cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani negotiates a settlement.
Sept. 7: U.S. death toll in Iraq reaches 1,000; about 7,000 soldiers have been wounded. In August, attacks on American forces reached their highest level since the beginning of the war, an average of 87 per day. No official record of Iraqi civilian deaths is kept, but as of this date estimates range from 12,000 to 14,000 (Iraq Body Count).
Sept. 15: The Bush administration requests that the Senate divert $3.4 billion of the $18.4 billion Iraq reconstruction budget to improving security in the country. The worsening security situationâ??with pockets of Iraq essentially under the control of insurgentsâ??threatens to disrupt national elections, scheduled for January. Republican and Democratic senators alike harshly criticize the request as a sign that the American campaign in Iraq has been poorly executed. Senators also denounce the slow progress in rebuilding Iraq: just 6% ($1 billion) of the reconstruction money approved by Congress has in fact been spent.
Sept. 15: In a BBC interview, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan says the war against Iraq was illegal and violated the UN Charter. The U.S., UK, and Australia vigorously reject his conclusion.




so happy new year

Thats great!!!and I care how...

[Sedater18]

I would die before I fight for any western country, I hate this country and yours and people like you. I cant wait to be old enough to get out of this country and what you call "liberty" that for 15 years I have been alive has stunk of corruption in this and your country. "because I believe the Liberty is for all-not just for those who already have it", your saying liberty for all, so lets go join the army and go murder some civilians in a poor country and tell the world we're liberating them...

Where exactly are you going to go? Oh man, you and me should get a space shuttle, fly into space, and live there, like we can hotbox the shuttle. We could even buy a hamster and bring him up there with us. He would be named Henry. Can hamsters live in space?

P.S. I'm not gay.

[BuD MaN]

Smoke hash in Manila, India forever. I have always had that thought, going into space. lol yes with a hampster...

[Sedater18]

Torog can't come on the shuttle, he might eat our hamster thinking it was dinner.

[NowhereMan]

Nowhere did you mean I shouldn't compare apples and organes?

will simply nod and say,,,yea thats about right

but that aint enough
so i will in fact SPELL IT OUT FOR THOSE LIKE YOU i reckon

i dont see what veitnam and iraq has to do with each other
and people keep blah blah blahing . what about nam
what about nam
look what they did,,,,,blah blah blah,
they call the vets babykillers and think nothing of the poor 18 yr old kid thrust into war trying to get a college education,find his ass being shot at by everyone ,even his own side.and you say oh well it your own fualt for being american
we keep most the world free as it gets ,so fuck the hell off with that lame game of being the biggest turd.
fuck all you asswipes given vets a hard time about any service
nam iraq or next 30 years ON THE PLANET MARS,just dont say shit about them and i wont say shit about you.

now im gonna smoke another jiont while some poor soul in itaq gets shot trying help them get a chance at not being DICTATED too and tuaght to hate me and want me dead.
ever hear the words,give peace a chance
well.................lets

[Torog]

will simply nod and say,,,yea thats about right

but that aint enough
so i will in fact SPELL IT OUT FOR THOSE LIKE YOU i reckon

i dont see what veitnam and iraq has to do with each other
and people keep blah blah blahing . what about nam
what about nam
look what they did,,,,,blah blah blah,
they call the vets babykillers and think nothing of the poor 18 yr old kid thrust into war trying to get a college education,find his ass being shot at by everyone ,even his own side.and you say oh well it your own fualt for being american
we keep most the world free as it gets ,so f*ck the hell off with that lame game of being the biggest turd.
f*ck all you asswipes given vets a hard time about any service
nam iraq or next 30 years ON THE PLANET MARS,just dont say sh*t about them and i wont say sh*t about you.

now im gonna smoke another jiont while some poor soul in iraq gets shot trying help them get a chance at not being DICTATED too and tuaght to hate me and want me dead.
ever hear the words,give peace a chance
well.................lets
Howdy NoWhereMan,

Yeeehhhaaaww !! Git em !

Hope that you're doing well this mornin :D

Have a good one...Torog :D

[NowhereMan]

Howdy NoWhereMan,

Yeeehhhaaaww !! Git em !

Hope that you're doing well this mornin :D

Have a good one...Torog :D

sure am
smoking a fat jiont with hash and skunk in it and saying
happy new year thecrackheadedone is history

oh yea,any day now you will smile ya ol goat hahahaha
peace

[Torog]

sure am
smoking a fat jiont with hash and skunk in it and saying
happy new year thecrackheadedone is history

oh yea,any day now you will smile ya ol goat hahahaha
peace
Howdy NWM,

So..are ya saying..that crackbaby is outa here ?

Thanx in advance..for the un-stoppable grin :D I look forward,to having a big ol,possum-eatin-shit grin...lol.

Have a good one...Torog :D

[psychocat]

will simply nod and say,,,yea thats about right

but that aint enough
so i will in fact SPELL IT OUT FOR THOSE LIKE YOU i reckon

i dont see what veitnam and iraq has to do with each other
and people keep blah blah blahing . what about nam
what about nam
look what they did,,,,,blah blah blah,
they call the vets babykillers and think nothing of the poor 18 yr old kid thrust into war trying to get a college education,find his ass being shot at by everyone ,even his own side.and you say oh well it your own fualt for being american
we keep most the world free as it gets ,so fuck the hell off with that lame game of being the biggest turd.
fuck all you asswipes given vets a hard time about any service
nam iraq or next 30 years ON THE PLANET MARS,just dont say shit about them and i wont say shit about you.

now im gonna smoke another jiont while some poor soul in itaq gets shot trying help them get a chance at not being DICTATED too and tuaght to hate me and want me dead.
ever hear the words,give peace a chance
well.................lets

Both are guerrila wars fought on foreign soil against a determined foe.
Both were to gain a foothold in predominantly hostile (to US policies) areas and strengthen the commercial interests of America (yet another market for pepsi and bigmacs).
If you want to protect your own borders then line the outskirts of America with troops and stop sending them to foreign countries on bullshit lies .

[Sedater18]

Both are guerrila wars fought on foreign soil against a determined foe.
Both were to gain a foothold in predominantly hostile (to US policies) areas and strengthen the commercial interests of America (yet another market for pepsi and bigmacs).

That pretty much what I was going to type...

[BuD MaN]

Fuckin hissy fit hillbillys. Cletus, my bad, Torog, I think you just like the company of the other army fellas...you know what Im talkin about...

[BuD MaN]

The only war I would go to is a war against you "freedom fighters" (neo-nazi America).

[Sedater18]

The only war I would go to is a war against you "freedom fighters" (neo-nazi America).

Hey hey, you wouldn't go to war against little old me, would you? :(

[NowhereMan]

That pretty much what I was going to type...
both places have been at war so long with itself and others its all they know
is that what ya siad?

[psychocat]

both places have been at war so long with itself and others its all they know
is that what ya siad?

And both are places where no US or Brit soldier should be.
Both are a death sentence and a body bag home for your precious troops.
Both were destabilised by american subversion (very much like with Pinochets rise to power Saddam had US backing for a long time)

Count the bodies coming home , count the relatives greaving for lost loved ones , count the human cost of a financial war and cut through the propoganda and bullshit , the only profit from war goes to the weapons manufaturers.
Bush and his cronies all benefit financialy in some way , this was never about terrorism or WMD or even Saddams oppressive regime and all about corporate gain.

[sawleaf]

And both are places where no US or Brit soldier should be.
Both are a death sentence and a body bag home for your precious troops.
Both were destabilised by american subversion (very much like with Pinochets rise to power Saddam had US backing for a long time)

Count the bodies coming home , count the relatives greaving for lost loved ones , count the human cost of a financial war and cut through the propoganda and bullshit , the only profit from war goes to the weapons manufaturers.
Bush and his cronies all benefit financialy in some way , this was never about terrorism or WMD or even Saddams oppressive regime and all about corporate gain.

I have to agree with you there.

[llamaman666]

No, hey torog, change your mind you conservitive dipshit. just had to say that, but no, not connected to 9/11, wanted to invade BEFORE 9/11 very simple, no.

[Euphoric]

yay pictures are fun

[Sedater18]

both places have been at war so long with itself and others its all they know
is that what ya siad?
Eh??

[Bman719]

I would die before I fight for any western country, I hate this country and yours and people like you. I cant wait to be old enough to get out of this country and what you call "liberty" that for 15 years I have been alive has stunk of corruption in this and your country. "because I believe the Liberty is for all-not just for those who already have it", your saying liberty for all, so lets go join the army and go murder some civilians in a poor country and tell the world we're liberating them...

No wonder stupid shit is coming out of your mouth, you're only fifteen. You're too young to say SHIT cause you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Maybe know the issues man, before you decide to fucking speak. For the record, I don't agree with the war in Iraq, and I'm American, but I have intelligent responses to back my opinions. Till you know what you're talking about shut the fuck up!

PS: See Attachment

[BuD MaN]

No wonder stupid shit is coming out of your mouth, you're only fifteen. You're too young to say SHIT cause you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Maybe know the issues man, before you decide to fucking speak. For the record, I don't agree with the war in Iraq, and I'm American, but I have intelligent responses to back my opinions. Till you know what you're talking about shut the fuck up!

PS: See Attachment

Do I detect a tantrum coming on FAGGOT. I dont have to know detailed details behind world events to say. Fuck you cunt Ill say whatever the fuck I want and you to be a big fuckin tool and say I dont have the right to say shit and you do coz Im 15. YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP...

[The Piper]

wow ur a fuckin fag huh kid u got a fuckin big moulth i can tell ur a fuckin tool who thinks hes a tough guy id love 2 c u come ova here an say that u fuckin sayin all americans should go 2 hell jus 4 bein american u piece of shit notice we dont say that about n e of ur countrys what u guys think we all live in mansions an shit fuck no we dont most americans dont even like our government its not us makin tha decisions i 4 one fuckin hate bush but i love my country and im goin2 fight for it in a year im goin2 enlist in the marines DEP in a few weeks just think of how many people in america arnt american and r still willing 2 fight 4 it wats that tell u no1s bein forced

[BuD MaN]

yea ya mumma

[Garden Knowm]

for the record.. I suggest we carpet bomb with lsd and ecstacy.. starting with a few people on this thread : )

This threadis kinda how I imagine wars to start... subject comes up... we argue... I can't win... so I bust a capin your ass.... I personaly prfer option "B" .... I offer you some X.. we reconsile our differences we go back to my place and hump all night.. but if y'all want to kill each other... ho hum

[psychocat]

wow ur a fuckin fag huh kid u got a fuckin big moulth i can tell ur a fuckin tool who thinks hes a tough guy id love 2 c u come ova here an say that u fuckin sayin all americans should go 2 hell jus 4 bein american u piece of shit notice we dont say that about n e of ur countrys what u guys think we all live in mansions an shit fuck no we dont most americans dont even like our government its not us makin tha decisions i 4 one fuckin hate bush but i love my country and im goin2 fight for it in a year im goin2 enlist in the marines DEP in a few weeks just think of how many people in america arnt american and r still willing 2 fight 4 it wats that tell u no1s bein forced

I would like you to enlighten me on the idea of a soldier having a choice.
NO soldier has a choice except the choice to sign up or not , once that decision is made then you become a servant who is expected to follow orders without question. As a former soldier I can tell you the consequences for disobeying orders , the brass don't like anyone questioning their methods, or madness, and a quick trip to the guardhouse can be quickly followed by your discharge from the force.
The military is not a democracy.
Explain to me how the US forces in Iraq are fighting for the people of America?? They aren't , they are serving the interests of global commerce.
Cannon fodder is cannon fodder.
Just like in Vietnam the enemy has home advantage , they have support across the country (nobody in Iraq really wants an american puppet) and they will continue to send home more troops in bodybags.
Think how many lives would be saved if America defended only it's own borders , this would also reduce the amount of illegal immigrants , add to this the monetary savings by not having to support overseas bases and operations.
Pre-emptive action is just another word for aggression , if we destroyed everything that could become a threat there would be nothing left in this world.
The arrogance of America in believing it has the (God given) right to impose it's ideas on everyone else is what is making this world an increasingly dangerous place , without US interference the Taliban would never have come to power , Saddam would never have lasted as long as he did and this shit wouldn't be happening now.
America should clean up it's own backyard before it tries to set itself up as a shining example of democracy .

[NowhereMan]

And both are places where no US or Brit soldier should be.
Both are a death sentence and a body bag home for your precious troops.
Both were destabilised by american subversion (very much like with Pinochets rise to power Saddam had US backing for a long time)

Count the bodies coming home , count the relatives greaving for lost loved ones , count the human cost of a financial war and cut through the propoganda and bullshit , the only profit from war goes to the weapons manufaturers.
Bush and his cronies all benefit financialy in some way , this was never about terrorism or WMD or even Saddams oppressive regime and all about corporate gain.

so then your saying America should leave you cocksuckers to kill each other off and just nuke the first one to piss in our yard

ok fine by me ,
just dont cry help me USA when the next fucking so called god chosen idiot stomps over and kills your people.,,,,remember how you dont want no usa to back anyone and help anyone,,,,,you remember that mr bad ass.
yaw expect a country just a lil over 200 years old to be perfect
fuck you

yaw been countries for ages and look,,,,america has to BIAL YOUR ass out of shit year by year
so shut the anti american shit up
i also think we should not be in iraq at this time
but saddam was helped into power
USA righted that wrong now didnt we
so what the fuck has your country did for anyone?
thanks and fuck you too
have a bad day to your anything america does is wrong ass.
peace to those who want it

[psychocat]

so then your saying America should leave you cocksuckers to kill each other off and just nuke the first one to piss in our yard

ok fine by me ,
just dont cry help me USA when the next fucking so called god chosen idiot stomps over and kills your people.,,,,remember how you dont want no usa to back anyone and help anyone,,,,,you remember that mr bad ass.
yaw expect a country just a lil over 200 years old to be perfect
fuck you

yaw been countries for ages and look,,,,america has to BIAL YOUR ass out of shit year by year
so shut the anti american shit up
i also think we should not be in iraq at this time
but saddam was helped into power
USA righted that wrong now didnt we
so what the fuck has your country did for anyone?
thanks and fuck you too
have a bad day to your anything america does is wrong ass.
peace to those who want it

Your eloquence astounds me . LMAO

"Among us today a concentration of private power without equal in history is growing."
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1)

"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling power.

As mentioned earlier, the secret U.S./Nazi corporate alliance during World War II was the result of substantial American investment in post-World War I Germany. In order to protect these investments, and the accumulating profits, the U.S. multinational corporations remained an important part of the Nazi war machine until the final defeat of Germany in 1945. What effect did the end of World War II have on this faction of American Nazi collaborators?

In this section we will review the evidence, much of it from recently de-classified documents, that this pro-Nazi faction, rather than facing charges of high treason, became an integral part of the United States national security apparatus, extending its fascist influence in both foreign and domestic policies and, in effect, creating what has been referred to as America's "Invisible Government." The excuse, of course, was Communism.

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/Elkhorn3.html

America fights for freedom??
Dream on .

"Greed is good" Gordon Ghecko , that seems to be the US mantra.

[The Piper]

I would like you to enlighten me on the idea of a soldier having a choice.
NO soldier has a choice except the choice to sign up or not , once that decision is made then you become a servant who is expected to follow orders without question. As a former soldier I can tell you the consequences for disobeying orders , the brass don't like anyone questioning their methods, or madness, and a quick trip to the guardhouse can be quickly followed by your discharge from the force.
The military is not a democracy.
Explain to me how the US forces in Iraq are fighting for the people of America?? They aren't , they are serving the interests of global commerce.
Cannon fodder is cannon fodder.
Just like in Vietnam the enemy has home advantage , they have support across the country (nobody in Iraq really wants an american puppet) and they will continue to send home more troops in bodybags.
Think how many lives would be saved if America defended only it's own borders , this would also reduce the amount of illegal immigrants , add to this the monetary savings by not having to support overseas bases and operations.
Pre-emptive action is just another word for aggression , if we destroyed everything that could become a threat there would be nothing left in this world.
The arrogance of America in believing it has the (God given) right to impose it's ideas on everyone else is what is making this world an increasingly dangerous place , without US interference the Taliban would never have come to power , Saddam would never have lasted as long as he did and this shit wouldn't be happening now.
America should clean up it's own backyard before it tries to set itself up as a shining example of democracy .

Exactly they have tha choice 2 sign up thats exactly wat i meant, i no and most people who r going in2 tha military no there lives belong 2 tha military for tha next 4 years tha point is they have tha choice 2 join and unless theres a draft no1s forcing them.and as far as america being arrogant thats our government i no it sucks i cant stand bush but most people think tha wars wrong so dont fuck wit americans jus for being american i would neva say that a person should go 2 hell or die jus because of who they are.and 2 psychocat im not goin against u i have more respect 4 soldiers than n e thing else.

[NowhereMan]

The only war I would go to is a war against you "freedom fighters" (neo-nazi America).


and who and what would that be?
wtf is a neo-nazi freedom fighter?

[koshea]

wow i just lost about all respect for the people posting the extremley ignorant posts about america.

on the otherhand, i have a newfound respect for torog

sedater and psychocat, ive had just about enough. pacifistic ways are good in theory, but so is communism.

and do you really think INDIA is going to be a countries with liberties? hah..i laugh at you, especially becuase you hate the USA becuase of the war in IRAQ, but you faild to not be a hypocrite and hate INDIA over the war in kashmere, or were you to uninformed to make that connection.

freedom comes with a price, and yes that price is sometimes death. and in the eyes of me, and probally any other person with a grip on reality, you look like a selfish sonofabitch, taking our freedoms for granted, if we were in an opressed country, with a tyrant leader, killing citizens left and right, at will, raping women, living in a constant sense of fear that you may be next, would you want a country to come in and give their OWN LIVES to save you from your hell? do you have a mother or sister? what if one day some men busted into your house, grabbed them, and raped them. would you be ok with i? if so you are a sick soul. america does have just causes in iraq. the only reason you believe americas only reason was WOMD was becuase thats all the media focuses on. the media in america and across the world mainly makes its reports to make america look bad. yes we found no WOMD, but what did we do? we removed a tyrant from leadership. we saved an entire country from a living hell


but we had no right to go in there...right?

WRONG

we had all the right in the world to go in there

they harbor terrorists
they kill innocent citizens, one reason you hate america, but when iraq kills them by the dosens is ok isnt it? because they arent a WESTERN country..
we had a very good idea that there was a possibility of WOMD, we were wrong, but i guess saving the lives of millions of iraquis are no consolation...

and for whoever said it was for finantial gain...wow...i want beat you with a stick for being so dumb

sending troops overseas...
money for food, supplies...
money for more enlistments...
aid to citizens of iraq...
reconstructing the cities...

all for pepsi and mcdonalds

your so brilliant! i would never have thought about it, we can make a few corporations expant .012% by spending only what? 470 billion dollars?...WOW YOUR FUCKING RETARDED


im sorry...i couldnt take the stupidity ANY MORE

[psychocat]

Firstly I'm not a pacifist of any description (I like fighting a lot) and I don't hate Americans in general , just those ignorant of the facts enough to believe that the troops are in Iraq to "liberate" the Iraqi people.
I don't care about WMD , I don't care about India , the title of the thread should be enough of a clue as to what this debate is about.
The US ""GOVERMENT"" and their ""COMMERCIAL BACKERS"" are the true benificiaries of the war in Iraq , war is very lucrative for weapons manufacturers and the people charged with rebuilding the war torn area , Bush had backers during his election campaign who have a vested interest in the contracts to fix up what US forces blew the fuck out of.

US forces had no right to invade any country , and as for the war on terror and the hunt for those who harbour terrorists how about starting with Isreal.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steveseymour/wecontrolamerica/WarCrimes.html

The pepsi and bigmac comment was simply a reference to corporate America numbnuts not a literal statement.
And of course the US taxpayer is footing the bill while your politicians send even more brainwashed kids to their death in the name of God and the christian way of life.
Sounds to me like you aren't really much use for anything but cannon fodder!
Go for it Rambo !!! LMAO

[koshea]

um, i dont know where you live but in my american troops arent sent to war in the name of god and the christian way of life...that would be the islamic extremests killing thousands of innocent americans in the name of allah and the muslum way of life

thankyou

[F L E S H]

um, i dont know where you live but in my american troops arent sent to war in the name of god and the christian way of life...that would be the islamic extremests killing thousands of innocent americans in the name of allah and the muslum way of life

thankyou
They're sent in the name of money and power..... Oops, I just opened up a can of worms.... :eek:

[NowhereMan]

Unbelievable naivety and arrogance.
yep on your part i agree

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Firstly I'm not a pacifist of any description (I like fighting a lot)

well i dont,but defending ones self and others from Bully ass mofo's is a must.


and I don't hate Americans in general
your a liar.i think you hate everything it stands for,EVERYTHING.

, just those ignorant of the facts enough to believe that the troops are in Iraq to "liberate" the Iraqi people.

it aint for oil ya dum ass

I don't care about WMD ,
I don't care about India ,
the title of the thread should be enough of a clue as to what this debate is about.
The US ""GOVERMENT"" and their ""COMMERCIAL BACKERS"" are the true benificiaries of the war in Iraq ,

and the NEW IRAQ with elections lets not forget oh yea no more dictator saddam to kill anyone who says he is bad
least i can say george bush sucks and not have nobody come drag me out and shoot me for it.,its called freedom,check into it

war is very lucrative for weapons manufacturers and the people charged with rebuilding the war torn area ,
and that is to mean.,is the ONLY reason they do it ?
hahhaaahaa
you cant believe that shit can you.
now im sure some companies enjoy huge profits at war times and love it
but to think THat alone is reason why usa ;s sons and duaghters are dying for it is plain to know you dont know the USA at all.

so your saying ,they should pay wages to people who work making the stuff how,?


Bush had backers during his election campaign who have a vested interest in the contracts to fix up what US forces blew the fuck out of.
so we should just leave it there blew the fuck up,Ok>

US forces had no right to invade any country ,

make that the right to invade ,any thats a threat to it.
as any nation would.
and as for the war on terror and the hunt for those who harbour terrorists how about starting with Isreal.
sure but that take palastine off the map period too so U really think the usa gonna start on such a nation that stands surrounded by enimies
she we protect that place,ONLY becuase it has so many wanting it to fall due to religious reasons,
we (the usa)protect alot of folks

The pepsi and bigmac comment was simply a reference to corporate America numbnuts not a literal statement.

yea like the iwo-jima sign huh ?

And of course the US taxpayer is footing the bill

as we always have will and will do

while your politicians send even more brainwashed kids
fuck you for every soldier out there

to their death in the name of God (some are religious not many)

i think it will say marine us army or US on his uniform not GOD"S ARMY

and the christian way of life. hahahahaa thats just so biased
and a chance and freedom in some form is how i see it

Sounds to me like you aren't really much use for anything but cannon fodder!

see even you think certain types of people are so invaluable that you would not care see them fucked up by being used in meat grinder battles
real humane of ya there cat


Go for it Rambo !!! LMAO

you would shit if he did and one day showed up your house wouldnt ya.,

[psychocat]

Iraq elections to enable a US puppet goverment to be set up.
Explain how Iraq was singled out as a direct threat when more advanced "enemies" (China,Korea) are left alone.
Isreali intelligence was used to justify the war (WMD ready in 45 minutes) and has since proven the term military intelligence is a true oxymoron.
Define terrorist.
Saudi Arabia harbours terrorists but I can't see any troops heading there.
Once again I will point out I don't like or dislike anyone I don't personaly know.
The GOVERMENT of the USA is my bugbear.
The GOVERMENT that refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement.
The GOVERMENT that created the Taliban as a world force (CIA trained).
The GOVERMENT that helped Pinochet .
The GOVERMENT that is the most hypocritical in the world.
The GOVERMENT with the dual goal of creating a foothold for US interests in the middle east and setting up a sympathetic (to the US) Iraqi leader to smooth the way for further commercial deals.

Anyone capable of thinking for themselves would see through the bull.
You mean FREEDOM as in the freedom from being bullied into living as the US decides?

[psychocat]

PS I don't really give a fuck who I upset the truth is the only thing I'm interested in , If I hate all things american why is my favourite singer from Detroit?
If I hate all things american why is my favourite actor from Neptune, New Jersey?
If I hate all things american why do I find someone from Worcester, Massachusetts, USA so funny.

Alice Cooper.
Jack Nicholson.
Dennis Leary.

That plus the fact that I have freinds in Chicago , Florida and Ohio kind of fucks up your theory that I lied about my feelings towards Americans in general.
Americans like yourself do make me feel for the ones who have to share a country with you.

[juggalo420]

PS I don't really give a fuck who I upset the truth is the only thing I'm interested in , If I hate all things american why is my favourite singer from Detroit?
If I hate all things american why is my favourite actor from Neptune, New Jersey?
If I hate all things american why do I find someone from Worcester, Massachusetts, USA so funny.

Alice Cooper.
Jack Nicholson.
Dennis Leary.

That plus the fact that I have freinds in Chicago , Florida and Ohio kind of fucks up your theory that I lied about my feelings towards Americans in general.
Americans like yourself do make me feel for the ones who have to share a country with you.
im from worcester massachusettes :)

[BuD MaN]

Just for the record the American government attacked its own buildings. How can a plane 130ft (approx.) in length and 85ft wide (approx.) fit into a hole in the side of the pentagon 65ft across and i forget how tall and leave no wreckage no engines nothing anywhere. And then if you look closely when the planes went into the towers you can see from 4 different angles on the south tower moments before the plane went in flashes of light in the cockpit and on with the north tower just before the plane went in is a flash of light in the cockpit. The plane that went in the south tower was no commuter plane, it was a military plane of some sort. If you look at the belly of the plane there is something long attached and if you look at an ordinary 767 or whatever it was the belly is smooth. look and see for yourself. And then if you listen to audio of when the towers were about to collapse there are explosions in and around the bulidings. see and listen for yourself. And when the towers were going down if you also listen there are explosions on each floor as they collapse. That doesnt usually happen when a large building goes down. And in the pentagon again, wernt the planes meant to have intense heat say the US government and news, So why is there a book on a stool (opened) on the edge of one of the rooms where the building collapsed and no pages are burnt, gone black or nothing and there is a computer on a desk undisturbed inches away from where the building colapsed. I dont know why but thats a bit odd. And the fuel in the plane that went into the pentagon would be thought of as toxic and the soil would have had to be removed. I dint ever see any special people for removing shit like that around. And out of all the cameras on and around the pentagon there is no footage of any noise, plane anything. But a service station not far away had a camera straight at the place where the plane went in and then a few hours later some FBI or whatever people went to the station and confiscated the tape for unknown reasons. And just randomly, why when Saddam challenged Bush to a live debate on TV Bush declined. I could go on...

[juggalo420]

Just for the record the American government attacked its own buildings. How can a plane 130ft (approx.) in length and 85ft wide (approx.) fit into a hole in the side of the pentagon 65ft across and i forget how tall and leave no wreckage no engines nothing anywhere. And then if you look closely when the planes went into the towers you can see from 4 different angles on the south tower moments before the plane went in flashes of light in the cockpit and on with the north tower just before the plane went in is a flash of light in the cockpit. The plane that went in the south tower was no commuter plane, it was a military plane of some sort. If you look at the belly of the plane there is something long attached and if you look at an ordinary 767 or whatever it was the belly is smooth. look and see for yourself. And then if you listen to audio of when the towers were about to collapse there are explosions in and around the bulidings. see and listen for yourself. And when the towers were going down if you also listen there are explosions on each floor as they collapse. That doesnt usually happen when a large building goes down. And in the pentagon again, wernt the planes meant to have intense heat say the US government and news, So why is there a book on a stool (opened) on the edge of one of the rooms where the building collapsed and no pages are burnt, gone black or nothing and there is a computer on a desk undisturbed inches away from where the building colapsed. I dont know why but thats a bit odd. And the fuel in the plane that went into the pentagon would be thought of as toxic and the soil would have had to be removed. I dint ever see any special people for removing shit like that around. And out of all the cameras on and around the pentagon there is no footage of any noise, plane anything. But a service station not far away had a camera straight at the place where the plane went in and then a few hours later some FBI or whatever people went to the station and confiscated the tape for unknown reasons. And just randomly, why when Saddam challenged Bush to a live debate on TV Bush declined. I could go on...
so wheres are the missing planes, any way a old teachers of mines wife died on one of the planes that hit the towers. i think its irresponible for you to write such bull-shit. no shit the fbi is going to confiscate the tapes from the pentagon, its called evidence collection, if you wanna see them so bad request them from the feds using the freedom of infomation act. i remembered your only 15 so ill forgive you its natural for you to believe crazy shit, but it does give sane liberals like me a bad name.

[NowhereMan]

Just for the record the American government attacked its own buildings. How can a plane 130ft (approx.) in length and 85ft wide (approx.) fit into a hole in the side of the pentagon 65ft across and i forget how tall and leave no wreckage no engines nothing anywhere. And then if you look closely when the planes went into the towers you can see from 4 different angles on the south tower moments before the plane went in flashes of light in the cockpit and on with the north tower just before the plane went in is a flash of light in the cockpit. The plane that went in the south tower was no commuter plane, it was a military plane of some sort. If you look at the belly of the plane there is something long attached and if you look at an ordinary 767 or whatever it was the belly is smooth. look and see for yourself. And then if you listen to audio of when the towers were about to collapse there are explosions in and around the bulidings. see and listen for yourself. And when the towers were going down if you also listen there are explosions on each floor as they collapse. That doesnt usually happen when a large building goes down. And in the pentagon again, wernt the planes meant to have intense heat say the US government and news, So why is there a book on a stool (opened) on the edge of one of the rooms where the building collapsed and no pages are burnt, gone black or nothing and there is a computer on a desk undisturbed inches away from where the building colapsed. I dont know why but thats a bit odd. And the fuel in the plane that went into the pentagon would be thought of as toxic and the soil would have had to be removed. I dint ever see any special people for removing shit like that around. And out of all the cameras on and around the pentagon there is no footage of any noise, plane anything. But a service station not far away had a camera straight at the place where the plane went in and then a few hours later some FBI or whatever people went to the station and confiscated the tape for unknown reasons. And just randomly, why when Saddam challenged Bush to a live debate on TV Bush declined. I could go on...


i got a pimple on my ass older than him
with more sense too.

i hope the fuck his parents find out his 15 yr old punk ass is here spouting shit and take his net away
talking shit like that

and as for crazycat you just spout off all that crap you want im done even trying tell your boo hoo'n ass anything cuase america is bad and your just never wrong are ya
so fuck all you anti american dickheads
i hate gw and any one of you assholes that make me defend him
he didnt fly no fucking plane or have one flown into no fucking pentagon
anyone dum enough to think the usa is behind that shit
needs shot for humanity 's sake,they are dangerous to us all ,pure moron's
fuck yaw rumor creating/ passing bastards,
cant get any sense out of your defected thinking budBOY
change ya name to budpunk
its sure dont need Man in it
.
exits after farting loudly and says to you " smell that on the way to hell"

[pot me up]

I dont think we should of gone over there except to drop the fucking bomb on them get it all over with france too there a bunch of basters if is wasnt for USA they would be speaking german matter of fact most county would be fucked if it wasnt for USA

And If you disagree then fuck you look at your history books

[Sedater18]

Even tho I agree that we saved their asses, germany couldn't have held that much land for too long, and Hitler's government would have failed by now.

[psychocat]

and as for crazycat you just spout off all that crap you want im done even trying tell your boo hoo'n ass anything cuase america is bad and your just never wrong are ya
so fuck all you anti american dickheads
i hate gw and any one of you assholes that make me defend him
he didnt fly no fucking plane or have one flown into no fucking pentagon
anyone dum enough to think the usa is behind that shit
needs shot for humanity 's sake,they are dangerous to us all ,pure moron's
fuck yaw rumor creating/ passing bastards,
cant get any sense out of your defected thinking budBOY
change ya name to budpunk
its sure dont need Man in it
.
exits after farting loudly and says to you " smell that on the way to hell"


Thats the way to win a debate LMAO
Anyone dumb enough to believe the US gov is interested in anything that doesn't benefit them in some way should be re-educated.
My history books tell me enough to know that :
America supported pre war Germany and continued to do business with them even after the outbreak of hostilities.
America has a history of subversion and interference .
Paranoia runs rampant (reds unders the bed) and the idea that the rest of the world is against you may tell you something about your own paranoia.
As for Germany being defeated by America , think again (research would help) the idiots of German high command made the same mistake as Napoleon , they tried to take on Russia in the middle of winter and suffered massive losses due to the Russians retreat and burn policy.
The Russians knew that the German army was relying on the spoils of war to feed their troops so they didn't bother fighting but retreated and destroyed anything the nazis could use , when the enemy arrived to find no food no shelter and not even a single enemy the moral of the troops suffered badly.
Lots of German troops simply froze to death on the march to catch up with the Russians and the supply lines from Germany simply became to stretched.

It also reminds me of the story of how the Americans and the Russians tackled the problem of biro's not working in space.

NASA spent 3 years and millions of dollars developing a pen that could write under water , in space and anywhere else you want to take it.

The Russians ,,, they used a pencil.

[Reefer Rogue]

I dont think we should of gone over there except to drop the fucking bomb on them get it all over with france too there a bunch of basters if is wasnt for USA they would be speaking german matter of fact most county would be fucked if it wasnt for USA

And If you disagree then fuck you look at your history books

man i cant believe you wrote that. first the americans werent the only people on the beaches fighting to free the french. americans are always saying two things two english people: we whipped your butts in the revolutionary war and we bailed ur butts out in both world wars. about the revolutionary war whoop dee doo if you didnt realise we had empires all over the world at that time we cant have enough troops everywhere. "the sun never sets on the british empire" and about the second thing you didnt bail us out of anything you only entered the second world war when you were attacked and russia basically defeated the germans at the end. i forget what you guys did in the 1st world war because im stoned rite now lol :D but i doubt u bailed our butts out. and about that bombing iraq and the french comment its people like you that make people hate americans and that some people were glad when 9/11 happened im not sayin i was happy coz it was devistating but there are some people that felt that way. i cant see how you would want to kill millions of innocent civilians by bombing them just like hiroshima and naggasaki (sp.) ok my stoned rambling is done now il probably read this later and be like when did i write this lol. PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[juggalo420]

man i cant believe you wrote that. first the americans werent the only people on the beaches fighting to free the french. americans are always saying two things two english people: we whipped your butts in the revolutionary war and we bailed ur butts out in both world wars. about the revolutionary war whoop dee doo if you didnt realise we had empires all over the world at that time we cant have enough troops everywhere. "the sun never sets on the british empire" and about the second thing you didnt bail us out of anything you only entered the second world war when you were attacked and russia basically defeated the germans at the end. i forget what you guys did in the 1st world war because im stoned rite now lol :D but i doubt u bailed our butts out. and about that bombing iraq and the french comment its people like you that make people hate americans and that some people were glad when 9/11 happened im not sayin i was happy coz it was devistating but there are some people that felt that way. i cant see how you would want to kill millions of innocent civilians by bombing them just like hiroshima and naggasaki (sp.) ok my stoned rambling is done now il probably read this later and be like when did i write this lol. PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i agree the whole we kicked your ass in the revolution is overblown, i doubt we would have won without french help. but after ww2 the mashall plan reconstructed europe at american expense. and during the war i doubt england would have withstood the german air-raids had not america declared war on germany, also there would have been no d-day without american troops. i agree the iraq war is bullshit, and tony blaire is bush's prison bitch. I was just trying to make the point american foriegn policy wasnt always crappy.

[BuD MaN]

that got yous goin. Denial peoples. You got nothing to use against me except for my age

[Sedater18]

that got yous goin. Denial peoples. You got nothing to use against me except for my age


You tend to be bias...

[juggalo420]

that got yous goin. Denial peoples. You got nothing to use against me except for my age
and the fact that 'your' pentagon theory is from some bullshit video clip from a web site, i have a question to you wheres the plane now and all the people on it? why wouldnt the goverment just say a missile hit the pentagon, i see no logic in them lying? why would the goverment attack it self and kill many of its own people working in the pentagon? you have some bullshit conspiracy theory that doesnt stand up to any serious scrutiny. and the only reason i commented on your age was to illistrate the point kids are guillible.

[F L E S H]

I dont think we should of gone over there except to drop the fucking bomb on them get it all over with france too there a bunch of basters if is wasnt for USA they would be speaking german matter of fact most county would be fucked if it wasnt for USA

And If you disagree then fuck you look at your history books

Hmmm... How about fuck YOU, and then YOU go look at a history book (preferably written anywhere else but the US, then you'll know the truth...)

[BuD MaN]

and the fact that 'your' pentagon theory is from some bullshit video clip from a web site, i have a question to you wheres the plane now and all the people on it? why wouldnt the goverment just say a missile hit the pentagon, i see no logic in them lying? why would the goverment attack it self and kill many of its own people working in the pentagon? you have some bullshit conspiracy theory that doesnt stand up to any serious scrutiny. and the only reason i commented on your age was to illistrate the point kids are guillible.

haha, and Americans arnt guilluble. You wen to war based on a lie and you continue to believe your own bullshit...hmmmm

[BuD MaN]

and no fool, I have watched a thousands docos from left and right winged based reporters and they all say and show the same thing. The diff. is im in a country who doesnt try and controle what I think and say...

[juggalo420]

haha, and Americans arnt guilluble. You wen to war based on a lie and you continue to believe your own bullshit...hmmmm
if your talking the war in iraq i agree it was started on illegitimate reasons, but i thought we were talking about whether or not the pentagon was struck by an airplane or was part of some conspiracy therory. you cant defend or answer any questions i asked you regarding your conspiracy theories so you did a little switch trick by bringing up the war in iraq assuming i was for it. my questions regarding the pentagon cospiracy theories remain-
*wheres the plane now and all the people on it?
*why wouldnt the goverment just say a missile hit the pentagon, i see no logic in them lying?
*why would the goverment attack it self and kill many of its own people working in the pentagon?
of course you cant answer these, if you could you already would have the previous times i asked you.


and no fool, I have watched a thousands docos from left and right winged based reporters and they all say and show the same thing. The diff. is im in a country who doesnt try and controle what I think and say...
what proof, what documents are you talking about, if you have any links provide them(none that are from lunics please, ones that have references)
also i assume you are from australia because on your location it says 'from down under' i hope you relieze australia has troops on the ground in iraq also.

just admit your wrong kid.

[Euphoric]

and no fool, I have watched a thousands docos from left and right winged based reporters and they all say and show the same thing. The diff. is im in a country who doesnt try and controle what I think and say...
sure they do!

[3s BEL]

Only one war was acceptable and America didn't bail us out
Since I live in Belgium I know quite a bit about both WWs, for those who don't know, belgium is just at the north of France,at the South of The Netherlands, Germany is our Eastern neighbour and to get in the UK I just have to cross the english channel, you all know the battle of the bulge? it was here in Belgium been there, seen that. My grandfather was an active member of the resistance and I have a the disfunctioned mausser rifle he gave me (He took it from a german he killed). The town I live in is not far from a German POW camp where many got killed, just to give you an idea: you read in history books, I've seen the places, heard the stories at first hand. Belgium has been occupied for 5 years by German ruling, not fun, und nein, Wir würden nicht Deutsches sprechen. Weil Hitler verrückt war, and do all native americans speak only English? Or do some of them also speak their tongue? and if I remember my history book correct:
Final victory came for Russia when Soviet soldiers hoisted the red flag over the Berlin Reichstag in April 1945.
And for what did you fight? Did the soldiers that fought here, when they came here, knew what they were fighting for? Not many... afterwards when they saw the deathcamps came the horror.... This is the only war that was just, that in terms of humanity you could speak of good vs evil. and after the war to end all wars? let's talk about now and leave all the dumb shit US goverment did past 50 years. WHat are you doing in Iraq? offering peace? giving Iraq to the Iraqees? What about Darfour, the genocide that's going on there? btw I hope bush sended Osama a X-mass card, oops, can't do, he still doesn't know where he is, Osama is the dude after 9/11 Right? (This is just to make clear that 9/11 doesn't justify Iraq war, Osama isn't Sadam). Oh, was Sadam making America scared with weapons of mass destruction? Now Sadam should be in court. And I thought Presumed Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Were are the weapons that the reports said there would be? Objection, those reports were false!
Let's be honnest even if ya could make believe a person that you're doing it for freedom for all the world, isn't it strange you only go to countries were you can get an economical advantage?
Sorry to offend anybody let me just remind myself and others that we don't send the soldiers, the politics do, we just smoke em.
BTW, soldiers, listen to that old hippie song by Donovan, The Universal Soldier.

[BuD MaN]

everyone go out and hire fahrenheit 911 is yous are open to truth

[NowhereMan]

everyone go out and hire fahrenheit 911 is yous are open to truth
thats right
go out give fat ass mr Moore some money cuase he knows the REAL truth about everything there ever was,

hire fahrenheit 911 is yous are open to truth
whoohoo man "he sure does"
" is u 4 he do dat "
siad some retarted dude on crack who agree's with you
"hims- b-da-jebus"
R weet weet warb jebus
whoobah diebah onda coss 4 manba kindba

oh yea,im luaghing my ass off about this geniius right now

i still beeda gibbons ooba fanger

(i still be giving you the finger)

(ok dumass think dialect or look up the word if you aint learned that one in 7th grade yet)


re exits cuase it its smells like bullshit too bad in here

[Sedater18]

You can't count out America in WWII. Russia kept the germans occupied on the eastern front and America allowed for allied victories in the west. Remember Japan? We did most of the fighting over in the pacific with Australia at our side. Do you think that if Japan had it's full fleet and military that they would have surrendered to Russia alone? Don't forget that it was the American lend-lease that gave Russia the weaponry that it needed to overcome the German Wehrmacht.
P.S. Bringing up the revolutionary war is stupid, who the fuck does that? Thats like Canadians brining up the war of 1812 like they seem to do.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=428603 <--- google answers. Google is supposedly omnipotent, the reply is sort of shitty but eh....

[Reefer Rogue]

You can't count out America in WWII. Russia kept the germans occupied on the eastern front and America allowed for allied victories in the west. Remember Japan? We did most of the fighting over in the pacific with Australia at our side. Do you think that if Japan had it's full fleet and military that they would have surrendered to Russia alone? Don't forget that it was the American lend-lease that gave Russia the weaponry that it needed to overcome the German Wehrmacht.
P.S. Bringing up the revolutionary war is stupid, who the fuck does that? Thats like Canadians brining up the war of 1812 like they seem to do.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=428603 <--- google answers. Google is supposedly omnipotent, the reply is sort of shitty but eh....

to answer your question about who brings up the revolutionary war. every american i know brings it up when i tell them im british and yes it is stupid. yes america did most of there fighting over in japan until they were losing and cudnt handle the japenese so they bombed millions of innocent people just so they could save there own lives instead of invading japan. the president at that time even said that. o well it doesnt matter now its in the past lets get over it and toke up :)

[Euphoric]

yea the atomic bomb being dropped on civilians. pure evil. of course the japanese themselves had Unit 731 which itself was more than sadistic.

[psychocat]

You can't count out America in WWII. Russia kept the germans occupied on the eastern front and America allowed for allied victories in the west. Remember Japan? We did most of the fighting over in the pacific with Australia at our side. Do you think that if Japan had it's full fleet and military that they would have surrendered to Russia alone? Don't forget that it was the American lend-lease that gave Russia the weaponry that it needed to overcome the German Wehrmacht.
P.S. Bringing up the revolutionary war is stupid, who the fuck does that? Thats like Canadians brining up the war of 1812 like they seem to do.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=428603 <--- google answers. Google is supposedly omnipotent, the reply is sort of shitty but eh....

The yanks didn't show up in Europe till it was almost over.
The battle that realy decided the fate of all european countries was fought in the skies above the channel and there were an awful lot of men who lost their lives , the funny thing is that when you peruse the list of names and homelands the lack of Americans is obvious.
Aussies , Kiwis ,South Africans even , and Canadians but no yanks.
Czechs , Poles , Belgians , Free French , Palestinian and Irish but still no Americans. WOW I found one , Haviland Pilot Officer J K American 151 , better than none I suppose. JK Haviland obviously wasn't scared of a real fight.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/roll.html

P/O John Kenneth Haviland an American was born on the 19th of January 1921 in Mount Kisco, New York. He spent most of his early life in England, starting school there at the age of five. John went to Nottingham University at 17. He obtained his 'A' Licence and joined the R.A.F.V.R. He was called up at the outbreak of war and was posted to I.T.W. at Pembroke College, Cambridge in November 1939. After completing his flying training he went to the No 1 School of Army Co-operation, Old Sarum. He volunteered for Fighter Command, was posted to No 6 - O.T.U. Sutton Bridge in August 1940 and after converting to Hurricanes joined No 151 Squadron at Digby on the 23rd of September 1940. The following day, the 24th of September he collided with another Hurricane during formation practice and made a forced-landing in a paddock at Waddington. He was awarded the D.F.C. on the 16th of February 1945, as a Flight Lieutenant with No 141 Squadron.

As for the supply of weapons , the US were interested only in making money out of any deals , they didn't do it out of kindness or as an act of support to an ally in times of war. They wanted their pound of flesh , as I said the US is only interested in helping itself.

The thing that pisses me off big time is the habit of hollywood stealing the thunder of brits or others and attributing it to americans.
U571 being a perfect example.

An attack by a British destroyer on a German U-boat in the Eastern Mediterranean in October 1942 altered the course of the entire war. The capture of secret German Enigma coding material from U-559, at the cost of the lives of two of HMS Petard's crew, enabled Bletchley Park's codebreakers to crack a new Enigma system introduced to cover a maximum U-boat offensive. After ten critical months with no U-boat signals intelligence available, this was the crucial factor in defeating Hitler's Atlantic U-boat wolf packs before they could starve Britain into defeat in the winter of 1942-3. Had it been possible to release the facts of her triumph at the time, the name of HMS Petard would surely have ranked alongside that of Nelson's Victory in the annals of British history. Because of the top secrecy about Ultra messages that lasted nearly four decades, the Petard's achievement remained unknown, her fame unrecognized. This text is the true story of how HMS Petard attacked and captured U-559 in the darkness of a Mediterranean night. With the use of vivid eyewitness accounts, the author describes how two of her crew swam across to the sinking, abandoned U-boat (ahead of a boarding party in a whaler) went below and passed key signals documents up the conning tower before being trapped when U-559, leaking from damage caused in the Petard's earlier depth charge attacks, sank. Both men were later recommended for posthumous awards of the Victoria Cross but the Admiralty, concerned this might draw unwanted attention from German Intelligence, instead ordered posthumous awards of the George Cross, the highest civilian award for bravery.

http://www.battlefield-site.co.uk/warII_anecdotes.htm

http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/2119/

[chrace]

i wish their was another option except yes or no and that is:

"of course"

[dreadhed]

haha, and Americans arnt guilluble. You wen to war based on a lie and you continue to believe your own bullshit...hmmmm
Hay did you know your country is over there too?

[mr chinnery]

Speaking as a Brit, we are always in America's debt for helping us in two world wars, whatever their reasons. Alot of young men from all countries died in mud and shit to save our freedom.

[sawleaf]

to answer your question about who brings up the revolutionary war. every american i know brings it up when i tell them im british and yes it is stupid. yes america did most of there fighting over in japan until they were losing and cudnt handle the japenese so they bombed millions of innocent people just so they could save there own lives instead of invading japan. the president at that time even said that. o well it doesnt matter now its in the past lets get over it and toke up :)

We weren't lossing in the Pacific theater. We were winning slowly, but the cost of life on both sides was terrible. The atomic bombs were a great and horrible way to end the war in the Pacific. They took many lives, but saved much more of our guys in the end. I bet you didn't know that all the Purple Hearts that were given in all American conflicts since WW2 are surplus medals made in preperation of the invasion of the Japanese mainland. The casualties we were estimated to take were over a million 1,000,000. Lossing any life is horrible, but it seems like you are saying that we should've continued the war and caused even more death rather than ending it?

[sawleaf]

yea the atomic bomb being dropped on civilians. pure evil. of course the japanese themselves had Unit 731 which itself was more than sadistic.

That's all war is though. It is just a big accumulation of evil :(

[NowhereMan]

to answer your question about who brings up the revolutionary war. every american i know brings it up when i tell them im british and yes it is stupid. yes america did most of there fighting over in japan until they were losing and cudnt handle the japenese so they bombed millions of innocent people just so they could save there own lives instead of invading japan. the president at that time even said that. o well it doesnt matter now its in the past lets get over it and toke up :)


yes america did most of there fighting over in japan
wasnt fighting in japan,,,few islands close to it is about it.

until they were losing ( you sadly mistaken)
and cudnt handle the japenese ( man thats moronic)
so they bombed millions of innocent people
it was the only way to break that society from world domination

just so they could save there own lives
YOU DAM RIGHT THERE,SAVE USA SOLDIERS CLEANING A MESS UP
instead of invading japan.

and ya think invading would have saved who,oh yea the enemy
well
wtf?
losing
invading
save yourself?


if america was losing then they would of been no invasion
it came down to who was to die,them who support a warrior society
or those BRAVE souls who would hit the beach to stop them
its right and wrong at war
japan needed its as kicked and it got the worst asskicking ever givin to any nation it got the bomb
it took two of them to convince them that the usa would kill every citezen of that nation if it didnt lay down its weapons,
i dont see where america should of donated lives to that mess as you seem to be saying.

when it can in fact end it with a couple bombs instead of a few thousand 20 yr old farm boys lives
so for my great uncle who was killed in the solomons
fuck you for saving that
he died on a ship hit by kammkazzi's
so

now we can toke and act like this never happened.?like you never insulted my nations honor when it in fact STOPPED THE WORST GENOCIDE EVER SEEN



smoke on

[Reefer Rogue]

yes america did most of there fighting over in japan
wasnt fighting in japan,,,few islands close to it is about it.

until they were losing ( you sadly mistaken)
and cudnt handle the japenese ( man thats moronic)
so they bombed millions of innocent people
it was the only way to break that society from world domination

just so they could save there own lives
YOU DAM RIGHT THERE,SAVE USA SOLDIERS CLEANING A MESS UP
instead of invading japan.

and ya think invading would have saved who,oh yea the enemy
well
wtf?
losing
invading
save yourself?


if america was losing then they would of been no invasion
it came down to who was to die,them who support a warrior society
or those BRAVE souls who would hit the beach to stop them
its right and wrong at war
japan needed its as kicked and it got the worst asskicking ever givin to any nation it got the bomb
it took two of them to convince them that the usa would kill every citezen of that nation if it didnt lay down its weapons,
i dont see where america should of donated lives to that mess as you seem to be saying.

when it can in fact end it with a couple bombs instead of a few thousand 20 yr old farm boys lives
so for my great uncle who was killed in the solomons
fuck you for saving that
he died on a ship hit by kammkazzi's
so

now we can toke and act like this never happened.?like you never insulted my nations honor when it in fact STOPPED THE WORST GENOCIDE EVER SEEN



smoke on

first of all im sorry your uncle died in the solomans. so your saying that you STOPPED the greatest genocide ever by creating the biggest genocide ever? i dont understand that at all. if i was so moronic as to say that you were losing to the japenese why do you go on to say that the only choice you had other than invading was to bomb them then? you say you ended it with a few bombs other than a few thousand 20 year old farm boys lives. well a few thousand isnt as much as a few million (i think it was around that many i dont know) personally i think bombing them was taking the easy way out. anyone can do that. americans are always boasting about there superior army so why didnt you invade them and prove it? i think the japs would've won if you would have invaded because they would've never given up. i think you saw this and thats why you annialated them. just my opinion take it as you see fit. looking forward to ur reply.

[sawleaf]

first of all im sorry your uncle died in the solomans. so your saying that you STOPPED the greatest genocide ever by creating the biggest genocide ever? i dont understand that at all. if i was so moronic as to say that you were losing to the japenese why do you go on to say that the only choice you had other than invading was to bomb them then? you say you ended it with a few bombs other than a few thousand 20 year old farm boys lives. well a few thousand isnt as much as a few million (i think it was around that many i dont know) personally i think bombing them was taking the easy way out. anyone can do that. americans are always boasting about there superior army so why didnt you invade them and prove it? i think the japs would've won if you would have invaded because they would've never given up. i think you saw this and thats why you annialated them. just my opinion take it as you see fit. looking forward to ur reply.

Yes it is obvious you don't know. The death toll for the two atomic bombs was around 340,000 including the deaths from radiological effects years later. The estimated causalties for the invasion of mainland Japan was 1 million and this is just American casualties, many more Japanese would have died also. I guess it's okay to sacrifice people as long as they are farm boys huh? We kicked the Japanese military's ass all the way across the Pacific, but you would have us waste more lives to "prove" that we have a better military. There is not easy way out in war idiot, just ways to lessen the loss of life. Look at the numbers and do some research before you post such ridiculous shit. :mad:

[Reefer Rogue]

Yes it is obvious you don't know. The death toll for the two atomic bombs was around 340,000 including the deaths from radiological effects years later. The estimated causalties for the invasion of mainland Japan was 1 million and this is just American casualties, many more Japanese would have died also. I guess it's okay to sacrifice people as long as they are farm boys huh? We kicked the Japanese military's ass all the way across the Pacific, but you would have us waste more lives to "prove" that we have a better military. There is not easy way out in war idiot, just ways to lessen the loss of life. Look at the numbers and do some research before you post such ridiculous shit. :mad:

good to see you didnt stoop to a low level of name calling... i regret posting in this thread. i don't know what your talking about with the farmboys i didnt say that it was ok to kill them. i personally think that it was unjustifiable to drop the atomic bombs. here are some reasons why i think that :

Japan was ready to call it quits anyway. More than 60 of its cities had been destroyed by conventional bombing, the home islands were being blockaded by the American Navy, and the Soviet Union entered the war by attacking Japanese troops in Manchuria.

American refusal to modify its "unconditional surrender" demand to allow the Japanese to keep their emperor needlessly prolonged Japan's resistance.

A demonstration explosion over Tokyo harbor would have convinced Japan's leaders to quit without killing many people.

Even if Hiroshima was necessary, the U.S. did not give enough time for word to filter out of its devastation before bombing Nagasaki.

The bomb was used partly to justify the $2 billion spent on its development.

The two cities were of limited military value. Civilians outnumbered troops in Hiroshima five or six to one.

Japanese lives were sacrificed simply for power politics between the U.S. and the Soviet Union.

Conventional firebombing would have caused as much significant damage without making the U.S. the first nation to use nuclear weapons

Anyway id like to see you reply with a bit more class next time instead of trying to belittle me. There is a thing called constructive critisizim, try using that instead of just being an asshole.

[sawleaf]

personally i think bombing them was taking the easy way out. anyone can do that. americans are always boasting about there superior army so why didnt you invade them and prove it? i think the japs would've won if you would have invaded because they would've never given up. i think you saw this and thats why you annialated them.

You are right, the Japanese never give up, for them to surrender was the ultimate dishonor. The Japanese were known for fighting to the death. Why would you possibly want to invade a country where the people see their leader as a living god and fight to the death? Why would you want to send your boys into that situation? In your last post you state that they were ready to give up. They were not ready to give up just beaten back into a corner and that corner was the Japanese mainland. I don't think there should have been a conditional surrender for a country that attacked us, showed zero mercy, and committed mass attrocities against humanity. Do you think it would've been okay if Germany surrendered and Hitler stayed in power? The bomb is always a tough topic, but I believe it's use was justified. Loss of life is always terrible, but this was a terrible war and we had to end it. It is a tough call to decide to end thousands of lives, but in a war our side comes first, and that's what we did, we looked out for our boys by not sending them into a meat grinder. We had been bombing Japan non-stop, but it was a costly mission for our pilots. I will agree with you on these posts though:

A demonstration explosion over Tokyo harbor would have convinced Japan's leaders to quit without killing many people.

Even if Hiroshima was necessary, the U.S. did not give enough time for word to filter out of its devastation before bombing Nagasaki.

The bomb was used partly to justify the $2 billion spent on its development.

The two cities were of limited military value. Civilians outnumbered troops in Hiroshima five or six to one.

Japanese lives were sacrificed simply for power politics between the U.S. and the Soviet Union.

What set me off about your other post is that you seem to justify that more American lives should have been sacrificed. War isn't about weighing the casualties on both sides and trying to balance them out. It's about winning and lessening the loss on your side. If that means killing thousands, that is what is going to happen. Is war terrible? Of course it is. Did the bomb save American lives by ending the war? Most definately.

[Reefer Rogue]

i guess we can agree to disagree on the justification of the bombing. im done with this thread.

[Sedater18]

If there is one thing Americans aren't afraid of, it's a real fight. Look at people like Torog, just sitting there wishing he could die gloriously in battle after saving his platoon. Americans have some sort of superhero mentality Saying that Americans are a bunch of aggressive, bloodthirsty warmongers, waiting for a reason to kill, but are afraid of battle doesn't really make sense, does it?


till no Americans. WOW I found one , Haviland Pilot Officer J K American 151 , better than none I suppose

Donahue Pilot Officer A G American 64 Killed
Fiske Pilot Officer W M L American 601 Killed*
Haviland Pilot Officer J K American 151
Keough Pilot Officer V C American 609 Killed
Leckrone Pilot Officer P H American 616 Killed
Mamedoff Pilot Officer A American 609 Died
Tobin Pilot Officer E Q American 609 Killed


As for not fighting battles in Europe, the Battle of the Bulge seems like a real fight to me...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_bulge

I believe that Patton was very helpful to the Allies in Europe, do you disagree?


As for the supply of weapons , the US were interested only in making money out of any deals , they didn't do it out of kindness or as an act of support to an ally in times of war. They wanted their pound of flesh , as I said the US is only interested in helping itself.

That doesnâ??t mean it wasnâ??t needed. How exactly did the U.S. government profit from the lend lease? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend_lease

The Marshall plan wasnâ??t making the govâ??t any money, it was an act of kindness. I am not 100% certain about the government not profiting from the Marshall plan, but I am pretty sure. If you know different, please inform me.


and do you really think INDIA is going to be a countries with liberties? hah..i laugh at you, especially becuase you hate the USA becuase of the war in IRAQ, but you faild to not be a hypocrite and hate INDIA over the war in kashmere, or were you to uninformed to make that connection.
Were we on the topic of India? No, we werenâ??t asshole. Did I ever say I liked the Indian government? Not mentioning India in a discussion about the U.S. and the Iraq war doesn't mean I'm a fan of India you fucking twit.


in the eyes of me, and probally any other person with a grip on reality, you look like a selfish sonofabitch, taking our freedoms for granted, if we were in an opressed country, with a tyrant leader, killing citizens left and right, at will, raping women, living in a constant sense of fear that you may be next, would you want a country to come in and give their OWN LIVES to save you from your hell?

Obviously everyone doesn't think like you, how strange. Iraqi youths are rallying against America at an alarming rate, that tells me that they did not want America to â??liberateâ?? them. People in other parts of the world don't think like you do. I don't mean that they are pro being tortured or pro extreme censorship, I mean that they have a different way of thinking about how they want to live their lives (like Islamic extremists). I comment more about Americans slaughtering civilians because Americans like you say that we went over there to stop the murdering in Iraq. You should stop acting like the coalition kills no children or innocent citizens.


but we had no right to go in there...right?

WRONG

we had all the right in the world to go in there

they harbor terrorists
they kill innocent citizens, one reason you hate america, but when iraq kills them by the dosens is ok isnt it? because they arent a WESTERN country..
we had a very good idea that there was a possibility of WOMD, we were wrong, but i guess saving the lives of millions of iraquis are no consolation...

"They Harbor terrorists"
...and this information came from the same fucking geniuses in the White House who told you that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? Guess what, by â??protecting our selves from the terrorists in Iraqâ?� (which there were very few of) we have created hundreds of thousands more terrorists. Big brother in the white house may have told you that there were terrorists in Iraq, but maybe you were to ignorant to realize that there were way more terrorists in Israel, Iran, Pakistan, Burma, Brazil, Russia, Albania, Saudi Arabia, Columbia, Kashmir, Uzbekistan, the Philippines, Syria, and many more countries. Many other countries harbor, and Syria even trains, terrorists.
Letâ??s attack them.
â??They kill innocentsâ?�
No shit? So does North Korea, China, Burma, The U.S. (on a slightly smaller scale), and A LOT of other countries. Why donâ??t we attack all of them (except for us, of course, because we can kill who ever we want and itâ??s not bad, right?) North Korea is worse than Iraq was (in terms of civil rights violations and executions), and still is, and the threat of nuclear weapons, which most countries suspect Kim Jung-Il has or is pursuing (more reason to suspect than we had about Iraqâ??s possible possession of chemical weapons, which we now confirmed was incorrect, asshole.) is more dangerous than the threat of chemical weapons, North Korea expelled weapons inspectors, North Korea has shown military aggression like that of Iraqâ??s and has a significantly more powerful military, why not attack North Korea instead of Iraq? Maybe it was because North Korea doesnâ??t have such large oil reserves, maybe because it wouldnâ??t be finishing Bush seniorâ??s old disputes...
In China, there are HUGE numbers of annual executions, many more than the Chinese government confesses to in official reports, and that is common knowledge. There are more than 10 times as many people suffering in China as are/were suffering in Iraq. China has shown aggression such as Iraqâ??s, and has nuclear weapons...why not attack China if you are so into â??liberatingâ?? people? U.S. corporations (that means Georgeâ??s rich buddies) make huge amounts of money off of Chinese prison labor and sweat shops, maybe you were to uninformed to make that connection.
http://www.usvetdsp.com/bush_trp.htm http://www.perspicacityonline.com/Articles/2001/103/Humanrights10302.htm
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/hr_facts.html
http://www.amnesty.ca/china/

As for who is profiting from the Iraq war: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11462
http://www.prwatch.org/node/2793
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=6975
and there are significantly more profiteers ( including ` Michael Moore)

Iraqi citizens are still dying and suffering. The U.S. media doesnâ??t keep specific track of Iraqi casualties, incase you wanted to know...

Oh yea, and just incase you didnâ??t know, I am American. I donâ??t hate every United States citizen (which would include myself) because of the war in Iraq I hate the government, and the people who try to justify the war in Iraq because they are the reason we are in Iraq. I ALSO hate the British government, and Tony Blair for being Bushâ??s little bitch. I think some of you U.K. asses should stop talking about how we are so horrible for starting this war, when you are our biggest ally in the war. Torog, and all of you hick assholes should stop calling Europeans retarded 8th grade insults like â??Euroweeniesâ?� and talking shit about how â??prissyâ?� you think the Brits are. Do you want them to stop helping us? When John Kerry said this war was unilateral you immediately starting spouting your shit about how he is insulting our allies, then you went and did the same thing. You talk about how you are being sympathetic and care about the Iraqis and how you â??liberated them to stop their suffering because you care about your fellow manâ?� and then you call them stupid racist, bullshit insults like â??dunecoons, camel jockey, sandniggers.â?� Not to mention that Great Britain doesnâ??t exactly have a clean past.
As for your comments on pacifism, I am not pacifist. I am on probation for possession and assault/battery. I do believe unnecessary wars are not a good thing, that war should not be used to profit one or a handful of individuals that are not doing the fighting, or to make some megalomaniac asshole feel big and strong. But there are some people who would have strongly disagreed with you on pacifism only being good in theory or war being something declared so quickly and easily.

â??What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?â?�

- Gandhi

â??Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.â?�

- Dwight D. Eisenhower

â??Surely a civilization that can develop supercomputers and send men safely to the moon and bring them back is smart enough to cease the killing of its own kind and the destruction of the accomplishments of previous generations. The only thing necessary is for the present mindset of people to changeâ??all else will follow.â?�

-James M. Carroll

â??Violence is the first refuge of the incompetentâ?�

- Issac Asimov


As for Nowhere Man:
like you never insulted my nations honor when it in fact STOPPED THE WORST GENOCIDE EVER SEEN


The worst genocide ever seen I think would have to be the Soviet Gulag, and we did not stop that.

[Crow Shindle]

Answer yes or no.



Have you come out of the closet yet? :D

[Torog]

Howdy Sedator18,

You said: "Torog, and all of you hick assholes should stop calling Europeans retarded 8th grade insults like â??Euroweeniesâ?� and talking shit about how â??prissyâ?� you think the Brits are. "

Hmm..well..according to you-I'm just a "hick asshole"..you think that I'm so stupid-that I can barely tie my shoe-laces..much less ,stop using 8th grade insults.

I don't think,that all Brits are prissy..just the ones equivalent to the Left-wing in this country..I don't know exactly,what party the anti-wars belong to in Britain..but they are prissy cowards who'd rather surrender to the terrorists and beg for mercy and convert to Islam.

On the other hand,those Brits who are supporting the war on terror,are smart enough to realize,that the terrorists must be stopped and the countries that support,train and export terrorists. The British soldier,is among the best fighting forces in the world..they are tough as nails and brave as all git out,I admire and respect,the British soldiers and the Brits who support them.

I really shouldn't use the term 'euroweenies',that's a bit too broad of a label,but for the most part,it is fitting for those who would rather surrender to the terrorists and appease them,even going so far as to convert to Islam..to escape the brutal slaughter of infidels,planned by terrorists and muslims, world-wide.

Chirac,of France,refuses to label hizbollah a terrorist organization..he's a great example of a euroweenie..he'd rather do business with terrorists and the countries that train them,than stand up to them.

Another thing is,is that most of those who are against fighting terrorism,don't know much,if anything,about strategy or tactics,involved with war-fare..it was a great,strategic solution,to knock down saddam and sons,leaving the US in a position to carry out operations in a centrally placed location,in the middle-east. Oil,is a strategic asset,of industrialized nations,saddam and sons,were using the oil-for-food money,for everything but..they were also using that money for further expansion of military assets,all geared towards another attack on Iraq's neighbors..the ultimate goal,being the destruction of Israel.

[Encatuse]

-laughs-

I've never seen nor heard of someone converting to islam for fear of terrorist attack in Britain. Torog, have you honestly? Because I really think you're lying/exaggerating to prove a non-existant point.

[Nullific]

Thats his style. Then everybody else who wont support the war is instead a 'liberal jihad supported'. What the hell kind of logic is that? I mean seeing as how a jihad is a war, and how he thinks we should go and convert everybody to christianity...after we bomb them.
Oh, THERE IS NO LOGIC IN THAT.

[Torog]

-laughs-

I've never seen nor heard of someone converting to islam for fear of terrorist attack in Britain. Torog, have you honestly? Because I really think you're lying/exaggerating to prove a non-existant point.
Howdy Encatuse,

You could be right..instead of converting out of fear,I can certainly imagine conversion out of admiration and adulation,for the jihad,by anti-wars and those who hate America. The fear,surprise and shock,will come later..when you wake up and find that muslims have more rights than British citizens.

Make no mistake..fundy muslims would just as soon cut yore infidel throat--as they would look at you..if you've ever spent any time with fundy muslims,like I have,you'd understand what I'm talking about.

[Torog]

Thats his style. Then everybody else who wont support the war is instead a 'liberal jihad supported'. What the hell kind of logic is that? I mean seeing as how a jihad is a war, and how he thinks we should go and convert everybody to christianity...after we bomb them.
Oh, THERE IS NO LOGIC IN THAT.
Howdy Nullific,

In every country in the world,the muslim horde grows larger and stronger..now is the time to stand against the jihad..either you're for civilization..or you're for the jihad to destroy it and replace it with a fundy islamic world regime.

I don't think anyone should be converted to Christianity,except by choice..and I only want to bomb those who are attacking America and Her allies. Now if we are talking about bombing brutal dictators and converting folks to the democratic process..I support that.

Have a good one...

[Psycho4Bud]

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
- Attributed to General George Patton Jr :D

Here's a toke for Patton!

[amsterdam]

i like that!how true!

[Nullific]

Howdy Torog,
Now you're talking about mass muslim converting conspiracies, first off christianity still seems to be the majority while islam is a more recent religion. Judaism came before Christianity and it took time for Christianity to gain popularity and become more popular. Now we have Islam as the most recent, is it not entirely possible that it is the new trend in religion and is gaining popularity just as christianity did in the past? How did most people become Christian in the first place? They were forced. Here we have history repeating.
Of course both parties are going to feel threatened by each other and call each other violent jihad supporters when in the end they both are. If you call any modern society 'civilized' I laugh at you.
That is all mainstream religion really is, a trend, and I don't like any of them.
I don't feel threatened by muslims, I know a few and they are as decent as any christian. Just because more people are becomming muslims does not mean there is some huge jihad oh my jesus lord and savior help us going on. You can call them violent, sexist and intolerent all you want but Christians are just as bad.
In fact I don't feel threatened by muslims in the least bit, I feel more threatened by Bush and his wars and his trying to turn America into a theocracy and his PATRIOT Act and his "there ought to be limits to freedom" and undeniable rigging of the first election and taking advantage of september 11th. (Oh im sure it was a big coincidence though)
How much support did Bush have before these terrorist attacks?
Until he told us all there were terrorists and weapons of mass destruction and that we were either with him or against him...He took advantage of a national tragedy, he gave us an enemy. If you don't believe this it is completely understandable, im sure nobody believed Hitler was that evil. Do you think anybody knew that is was actually the Nazis who set fire to the Reichstag? No, Hitler blamed it on the communists and the people for the most part believed him. Germany was considered very 'civilized' and yet Hitler succeeded in Kistallnacht and his persecution of the Jews because he dehumanized them and made them the enemy. Do you think he went about that in a way that made it obvious this was a horrible thing? No, the people were blind because Hitler and the Nazis gave them an enemy and of course they too said you could either be with them or against them. If not, concentration camp for you.
So Torog, terrorists and muslims are the Bush administrations scapegoat, he says with passion that they are attacking us and takes it to the extreme calling all others unpatriotic and saying we are either with him or against him so he can do what he wants. Then he makes us feel all warm and fuzzy by saying we're helping these people and spreading democracy.
What about that genocide of the Rwandans in 1994? You know the one that left 800,000 of them dead. Maybe you don't, Americans pretended it wasn't happening and im sure the news then was just flooded with bullshit about the top actor and musician scandles too.
Fact is Americans don't give a rats ass about anything unless it could benefit them.
Don't worry, I don't just hate Bush...I hate most politicians, they all suck right and left and cannot be trusted. People are putting too much trust in Bush and his administration. History repeats itself, even in our modern technological world.

[Encatuse]

Nullific, you could make 2000 points, or you could just make 1 that tears apart his entire argument. It doesn't really matter with Torog.

Not saying that's a bad thing. He has a right to his 'opinion'.

((even if it's wrong.. -laughs-))

I've never seen Torog's opinion sway once that I can think of. And I've seen him in alot of opinion-based arguments. As I'm sure you have.

[Torog]

Howdy Nullific,

Those who called themselves Christian in the past,were engaged in some forced conversion,but that was a couple of hundred years ago..Christianity today,is a source of good will and voluntary acceptance of Jesus Christ,as one's Lord and Saviour.

Today,Islam is the source of terrorism,brutality,slavery,torture,murder,forced conversion and violent conflict..it's the Christians who are being slaughtered with extreme prejudice,and the western world,is acting in defense of it's self..not on a Christian crusade against Islam,as your liberal masters and propagandists,would have you believe.

It's a simple choice..either you desire to live under 7th century Islam,or you will act in defense of modern civilization. Which is it ?

[Torog]

Nullific, you could make 2000 points, or you could just make 1 that tears apart his entire argument. It doesn't really matter with Torog.

Not saying that's a bad thing. He has a right to his 'opinion'.

((even if it's wrong.. -laughs-))

I've never seen Torog's opinion sway once that I can think of. And I've seen him in alot of opinion-based arguments. As I'm sure you have.
Howdy Encatuse,

Is that a compliment ? lol I can change my opinion-for instance,the Christian woman who treated the gay gals so badly on Wife Swap..I didn't see any call for that kind of behaviour..and in fact,found it to be reprehensible and without merit or cause.

I was raised to be a man about what I stand for,and to be man enough to admit when I'm wrong..which I will not hesitate to do so again,if I'm found to be wrong. For instance,there's a list in my head,of things that Bush is doing or planning on doing,that I don't approve of..but I will not reveal that list-if it degrades the will of the American people to fight terrorism and the countries that support,train and export them.

The Left-wing is intent on destroying the will and resolve,of Americans defending democracy and freedom..I will not aid and abett that..nor will I change my opinion on the war on terror..as it must be fought..the gauntlet has been thrown down,by muslim jihadists..they started this fight..and America,is going to finish it-whether you like it or not.

Have a good one....

[Encatuse]

..Christianity today,is a source of good will and voluntary acceptance of Jesus Christ,as one's Lord and Saviour.

Today, Islam is the source of terrorism,brutality,slavery,torture,murder,forced conversion and violent conflict..

I think those were two sentences that shouldn't be so close to eachother for fear of an oxymoron!

"We christians spread good will! I, as a christian, follow Jesus on his path of PEACE. Now let's go KILL muslims for personal gain!"

You can hear your hatred for muslims in your typing. You ALWAYS have something negative to say about either muslims or liberals. And you always bring up how christian you are as well. I've only got 10 or so years of practicing christianity behind me.. Probably nothing compared to you. But, I thought christianity was about love and turning the other cheek? Sounds like you need to rid yourself of the entire new testament, or maybe read it again.

But, as to the sticking to your opinion. I'd say it's somewhat of a compliment. I'm stubborn in my opinions as well.

[Nullific]

Those who called themselves Christian in the past,were engaged in some forced conversion,but that was a couple of hundred years ago..Christianity today,is a source of good will and voluntary acceptance of Jesus Christ,as one's Lord and Saviour.

Today,Islam is the source of terrorism,brutality,slavery,torture,murder,forced conversion and violent conflict..it's the Christians who are being slaughtered with extreme prejudice,and the western world,is acting in defense of it's self..not on a Christian crusade against Islam,as your liberal masters and propagandists,would have you believe.

It's a simple choice..either you desire to live under 7th century Islam,or you will act in defense of modern civilization. Which is it?
Do you not get it?
This is a fantastic example of history repeating in our modern 'civilized' world.
No one ever said all christians were bad in the past, but there were some with ulterior motives who had power and used religion as an excuse for control. Those are the ones who called upon the crusades and forced people to convert.
Now we have a newer religion that has authoritive figures with power who can use the religion for control. This certainly does not mean all muslims are evil or part of this plot to convert everyone to Islam. It is Islams turn, so to speak, to convert people with violence. Most organized religions of the past including the still practiced christianity have done this, the religion will gain popularity until people come to their senses and then in another few thousand years a new religion will emerge and history will repeat again.
Engaging in war with countries with high muslim populations is only feeding to the problem. Do you have any idea how many times America and the Jesus defender has pissed the middle east off?
You think giving them food and half assed aid is going to help settle their negative emotions towards America?
Say this is going on and all the muslims are in a plot to conver the world with violence, what are you going to do to stop them? Bomb them and kill them? What kind of logic is that?

[Torog]

Do you not get it?
This is a fantastic example of history repeating in our modern 'civilized' world.
No one ever said all christians were bad in the past, but there were some with ulterior motives who had power and used religion as an excuse for control. Those are the ones who called upon the crusades and forced people to convert.
Now we have a newer religion that has authoritive figures with power who can use the religion for control. This certainly does not mean all muslims are evil or part of this plot to convert everyone to Islam. It is Islams turn, so to speak, to convert people with violence. Most organized religions of the past including the still practiced christianity have done this, the religion will gain popularity until people come to their senses and then in another few thousand years a new religion will emerge and history will repeat again.
Engaging in war with countries with high muslim populations is only feeding to the problem. Do you have any idea how many times America and the Jesus defender has pissed the middle east off?
You think giving them food and half assed aid is going to help settle their negative emotions towards America?
Say this is going on and all the muslims are in a plot to conver the world with violence, what are you going to do to stop them? Bomb them and kill them? What kind of logic is that?
Howdy Nullific,

Yup..I git it..history is indeed repeating it's self..once again..we must stop the muslim horde from rising up and dragging us all back to the 7th century..the koran,demands that the world be turned into an islamic state..kinda like the commie's manefesto,which demands the world be a communist state.

Since 9/11,I don't give a damn-how many muslims we piss off-if those muslims want America to be destroyed,and therefore,democracy and freedom,and if they refuse to acknowledge Israel's Statehood..then they can all kiss my big red,hairy,pimpled,redneck butt !

Since we toppled saddam and sons,Quadafy of Libya,gave up their wmd program..and the rest of the dictators are sh*ttin little green apples !

You ask:" You think giving them food and half assed aid is going to help settle their negative emotions towards America? "

For many,it does..they are just dang lucky,it's America there and not the russians or commie chinese..there would be no aid..and most of the country and people,would be laid to waste and killed.

You say:"Say this is going on and all the muslims are in a plot to conver the world with violence, what are you going to do to stop them? Bomb them and kill them? What kind of logic is that?"

The problem mostly lies with the leadership of muslim countries that are hostile to the West,the folks in those countries,want to be free of the brutal shackles of fundy islam..we'll just cut the head off the snake..and Freedom will rise.

The 'logic' of toppleing saddam and sons,has worked very well..and is continuing to pay off..like the pullback of syrian troops.

It all boils down to this..either you will defend modern society..or you will be dragged back to the 7th century..your choice.

[NowhereMan]

first of all im sorry your uncle died in the solomans. so your saying that you STOPPED the greatest genocide ever by creating the biggest genocide ever? i dont understand that at all. if i was so moronic as to say that you were losing to the japenese why do you go on to say that the only choice you had other than invading was to bomb them then? you say you ended it with a few bombs other than a few thousand 20 year old farm boys lives. well a few thousand isnt as much as a few million (i think it was around that many i dont know) personally i think bombing them was taking the easy way out. anyone can do that. americans are always boasting about there superior army so why didnt you invade them and prove it? i think the japs would've won if you would have invaded because they would've never given up. i think you saw this and thats why you annialated them. just my opinion take it as you see fit. looking forward to ur reply.


wasnt a matter of who would have won
its at what cost
no way japan could of lasted but the nuking broke the will of the people to fight and now japan is a nation of prosperous industry
and not a riunt historic relic of past nations

and we do have the best military
and that includes smart enough people to not kill off his own soldiers when he can kill off the ENEMY without doing so
that you cliam it was so how wrong to kill off millions to save thousands is bullshit when the society you speak of was in fact a brutal agressive domination minded war based one
the one way wasnt a nuke, but those farm boys needed not die becuase some OTHER NATIONS ruler could not see he was beat
it took two cities being vaporized to show them america couldnt be beat and they stopped,
war is hell

[amsterdam]

believe it or not but dropping those bombs saved alot of lives on both sides.we were just quicker on the draw as always.

[Nullific]

Yup..I git it..history is indeed repeating it's self..once again..we must stop the muslim horde from rising up and dragging us all back to the 7th century..the koran,demands that the world be turned into an islamic state..kinda like the commie's manefesto,which demands the world be a communist state.
Oh like no other organized religions call for it to be one and only. Not every muslim is an extremist, they are not going to invade the US and try to force their religion upon us...I think we have enough Christians doing that all ready.

Since 9/11,I don't give a damn-how many muslims we piss off-if those muslims want America to be destroyed,and therefore,democracy and freedom,and if they refuse to acknowledge Israel's Statehood..then they can all kiss my big red,hairy,pimpled,redneck butt !
And why do you think this extremist terrorist group attacked us? No, it is not because they 'hate freedom' as Bush would want you to believe. We've been pissing them off for decades.

For many,it does..they are just dang lucky,it's America there and not the russians or commie chinese..there would be no aid..and most of the country and people,would be laid to waste and killed.
I disagree: http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Poverty/FoodDumping/FoodFirst/Consequence3.asp

The problem mostly lies with the leadership of muslim countries that are hostile to the West,the folks in those countries,want to be free of the brutal shackles of fundy islam..we'll just cut the head off the snake..and Freedom will rise.
If these people wanted to be free they should revolt. Perhaps this could have happened peacefully, maybe they need foreign aid...but not all out America "Fuck Yeah" intervention. We do this a lot, and end up sticking around in the country for long periods of time and create more of a mess than there was to begin with.

[amsterdam]

these are people that have been pissed on for a hundred years.they have watched family members get their tongues cut out.do you really believe if you had grown up in a country like this you as a 16 year old kid would stand up and revolt,NO.

Their schools teach them the crap they believe.my friends from school used to tell me stories about the silly shit they teach them.and guess what,once they came here for school they realized what a load of shit it was.

have you been to america?or just seen the movie?

why have more muslim immigrants come to this country in the last 4 years than ever before?are they brainwashed too?c'mon!stop reading those silly ass web-sites with nothing but bullshit in them.i went and read them.they are for the gullible and left out so they can find a meaning in things they dont understand.

[Nullific]

So globalissues.org is a silly website? Despite it being nonprofit and independently operated you're going to discredit it like that?
http://www.globalissues.org/about.asp
http://www.globalissues.org/HumanRights/Media.asp

[amsterdam]

not at all,i just looked at it.it reminds me of the aclu.i hate the aclu.it's a noble cause.

[Nullific]

Why would you hate the ACLU...because they've been protecting the Bill of Rights for over 80 years?

[amsterdam]

suing the boyscouts?because they dont like a position of theirs?trying to change the names of food because they dont like them and they find them harmful?trying to outlaw playing dodgeball in california because it discriminates.they are a joke.

[F L E S H]

and that includes smart enough people to not kill off his own soldiers when he can kill off the ENEMY without doing so

But it's ok to kill allied soldiers and civilians...

[psychocat]

Sick and tired of the religion used for political bull.

ALL RELIGIONS ARE DEVISIVE !!


Dear President Bush,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. As you said, "In the eyes of God, marriage is between a man a woman". I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination . . . end of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's laws and how to follow them:

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that a man is allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness--Leviticus 15:19-24. The problem is, most women take offence when they're asked if they're unclean.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord--Leviticus 1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there degrees of abomination?

7. Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton-polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Leviticus 24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, as we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Leviticus 20:14)?

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Just a little something I found whilst trawling .

[amsterdam]

owning a canadian would be nice.lol

[Encatuse]

-laaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggghhhhhhhhh hhhsssssssssssssssssssss-

[llamaman666]

Howdy Nullific,

Those who called themselves Christian in the past,were engaged in some forced conversion,but that was a couple of hundred years ago..Christianity today,is a source of good will and voluntary acceptance of Jesus Christ,as one's Lord and Saviour.

Today,Islam is the source of terrorism,brutality,slavery,torture,murder,forced conversion and violent conflict..it's the Christians who are being slaughtered with extreme prejudice,and the western world,is acting in defense of it's self..not on a Christian crusade against Islam,as your liberal masters and propagandists,would have you believe.

It's a simple choice..either you desire to live under 7th century Islam,or you will act in defense of modern civilization. Which is it ?


I would say that this is the most racist, disregarded, ignorant, hating, superiortist, and disgusting post I have EVER seen on ANY forum, including freerepublic, which I bet you frequent.
I am Jewish, does this mean I am uncivilized and horrid because I do not accept some random fucker who got nailed to a board? O, he was Jewish too, the ultimate, most correct and accepting religion in this world. Islam, it is fine, militant Islam......not so fine. But you ignorant pile of shit can obviously not stop to think, but would rather think and force your views down my throat. Torog, I think you should have not been crippled, but killed whenever that was, cuz they obviously had a head shot.

fuck you

[llamaman666]

The Left-wing is intent on destroying the will and resolve,of Americans defending democracy and freedom..I will not aid and abett that..nor will I change my opinion on the war on terror..as it must be fought..the gauntlet has been thrown down,by muslim jihadists..they started this fight..and America,is going to finish it-whether you like it or not.

Have a good one....


for some reason you forget that there are catholic terreroists in ireland, or are these people good christians, so exempt from your constant mindless rant of hatred? History repeating itself? lets look back at the "good christian" history.
Catholic church: BURNED heretics, aka, anyone who didn't 100 percent agree with them. Included writing the BIBLE, the source of christianity, in a language that commons could read.
Spain: Jews; burned at the cross for not coverting.
White supremicy: Inspired by christianity, South African invaders: Christian, Murderers of natives: Christian, Inslavers of Africans: Christian.

But wait, since I have a mind unlike you, I know how to not generalize! Not all christians are bad, not all bad is christian. But alot is; their time of horror has for the most part ended, but a large chunk of history is taken up by it. Now, it is Militant Islams time.

Left wingers destroying freedom? NO!!! :mad: Who was against the "(un) patriot act"? left wingers, the patriot act does NOT help catch terrorists, but is used to invade on petty criminals life. Right wingers prevented felons from voting, VOTING, on of the basic, and natural freedoms of mankind. Your fucks try to stop gays from getting ANY bennifits, one even is trying to prevent single mothers from teaching in schools. They are trying to allow creationism to be taught in school. They allow criminals, even terrorists to buy weapons made to KILL PEOPLE!!! You say you want a war on terror huh? Well you, the right wing, the NR fucking A is allowing Oams "your mama" bin Laden to buy sub machine guns. Guerilla armies from Columbia have legally bougten tens of thousands of sholder held machine guns from the US. BEFORE we INVADED IRAQ it was harder to buy a killing weapon there. War on terror? I laugh at your ignorance and closemindness. We are selling terrorists guns while preaching the war on terror. A person on the TERRORIST WHACH LIST can legally buy a machine gun, hand gun, rifle, shotgun, etc etc at an AMERICAN gunshow.
Don't you get it yet? Left wingers are not all wrong, they when to preserve our freedom buy stomping down on our threats and not supplying violent criminals, terrorists, and violent, hard drug running guerilla armies with guns, the guys on the right of the isle do!
America is killing its self with dumness. We must change.

Now before you start calling me some liberal fuck let me tell you that I live in Alaska in a town of 1500 some people. I hunt for sustinence and was in the navy for four years before being released. I am not softy from Sothern California, the only beaches near me are full of rocks, mud and ice, and empty into water that is under 40 degrees. I will not back down to you and your abusive, racist posting.

[NowhereMan]

But it's ok to kill allied soldiers and civilians...
no, its not and who siad so,? accidents like wrong targets and missed targets sux. BUT ITS WAR,nobody is safe
and
i was talking about the invasion of japan home islands and how many lives the bombs saved.on both sides

believe what you want
but it took two cities DYING to save that island and people from total destruction

[Encatuse]

-eats his foot-

[F L E S H]

but it took two cities DYING to save that island and people from total destruction

You SAVED them??? With an Atomic bomb? I'm sure the people of Nagasaki and Hiroshima and all their relatives all over Japan are thankful. I'm sure they get together on the anniversary to collectively thank the Americans for killing hundreds of thousands instantly. I'm sure they thank you for obliterating two entire cities, for irradiating the entire region, for babies being born still today with birth defects from high radiation levels, for entire generations of people dying of cancer.

Thank you USA!

P.S. When are you gonna thank Osama for 9/11?

P.P.S. Psycho, that was priceless :D

[amsterdam]

my boss's wife is japanese and her parents are relieved about the bomb believe it or not!it made the japenese quit fighting and they didnt force any more people to fly in suicide planes or kill themselves hara kiri.i didnt know FLESH is japenese??

[Edgar]

"pacifistic ways are good in theory, but so is communism"

How would you know pacifists ways dont work?(The Netherlands seem to be pretty successful at it.) We in the USA have never tried being pacifists. We very often start the chain reactions that leads us to war. It is for that reason that terrorists are even concerned with us. Most countries at war, are only getting what they put into it. (war doesn't start in a vacuum.) In Iraq all we did (for our own people.) was create new anti-American terrorists and slightly delay the inevitable oil shortage. We may have freed a nation of people from the grip of an evil regime, but that was not our intent going into this war, and it will not prove 'worth it' to our citizens in the long run.(especially if it leads to another terrorist attack on our home soil.) I believe a country has every right to defend its self, but this country is doing little in that regard. Our borders are pretty much wide open, our chemical plants and water supplies arn't being guarded, Airports are still not secure,(Partly because we expect them to pay for all the security upgrades, when they are broke as fuck.) and we have almost all our troops spread thinly across the entire freakin globe, leaving us wide open for attack.

I dont believe this is some religious crusade either, but thats sorta what this whole 'spreading democracy' thing sounds like code for... Its not though, Its all an elaberate charade to expand business interests. Thats why they cherry picked iraq over the many other greater dangers to the US, because it was good for business. Bush has been heard talking about going into Iraq, before 9/11 even happened, so that tends to further indicate that 9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with Iraq.

[Cannabist00]

Today's Christians are in no way Christ-like. Their livestyles are so far removed from his that his teachings, if followed to the letter, would mean instant poverty and humiliation in today's world, just as Jesus suffered in his times. I don't see many so-called Christians doing much suffering. I see a lot of suffering being poured out by them. Most of our leaders profess to be Christian. Born again, no less. Yet they have no compassion for the world that has been militarily destroyed by their sanctioning of the War on Terror, or the War on Drugs, or any war for that matter. The time to have compassion is BEFORE you throw the bombs. The Elite have the Christians and other religions eating out of their tax sheltered, religous based initiative, life and death deciding hands. Even the bible states that in the end times, even the Saints shall be decieved. Sounds like that has been happening for a while now.

I have nothing against Christians or any religion. But my faith is based on hard evidence. Not fantasy, and not violence. The laws of the Universe will be enforced on the religious and the non-religious. I suspect one law of the Universe would be that under no circumstance should you ever wage War to bring Peace. And if you ever see any black sticky stuff oozing out of the ground, leave it alone! "Progress" or "The search for a way to make a profit" has only lead us to the brink of destruction. To be satisfied by the natural order of things, to embrace simplicity, compassion, diversity in culture, and to turn away from "Progress" is the only way to achieve what the Creator intended. But, of course, this is just my opinion, and not that of Yahooka or any other organization.

Peace. Legalize, then Revolutionize!

[amsterdam]

to answer the question finally,yes they should have gone to war.no doubt.

[llamaman666]

http://boards.cannabis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11093
what is so bad with Kofi Annan? and one of the other guys is dead.

[amsterdam]

he is a scum bag

[amsterdam]

heres what you really sound like!

[amsterdam]

hahahah

[Hydrizzle]

I say we shoot al people who shoot at us. By flying a plane into our building, you are shooting at us... When you shoot at the Unioted States, they shoot back, unlike certain European nations....

[NowhereMan]

You SAVED them??? With an Atomic bomb? I'm sure the people of Nagasaki and Hiroshima and all their relatives all over Japan are thankful. I'm sure they get together on the anniversary to collectively thank the Americans for killing hundreds of thousands instantly. I'm sure they thank you for obliterating two entire cities, for irradiating the entire region, for babies being born still today with birth defects from high radiation levels, for entire generations of people dying of cancer.

Thank you USA!

P.S. When are you gonna thank Osama for 9/11?

P.P.S. Psycho, that was priceless :D


and im sure manchuria thanks your ancestors for raping them
anything else??

[psychocat]

Today's Christians are in no way Christ-like. Their livestyles are so far removed from his that his teachings, if followed to the letter, would mean instant poverty and humiliation in today's world, just as Jesus suffered in his times. I don't see many so-called Christians doing much suffering. I see a lot of suffering being poured out by them. Most of our leaders profess to be Christian. Born again, no less. Yet they have no compassion for the world that has been militarily destroyed by their sanctioning of the War on Terror, or the War on Drugs, or any war for that matter. The time to have compassion is BEFORE you throw the bombs. The Elite have the Christians and other religions eating out of their tax sheltered, religous based initiative, life and death deciding hands. Even the bible states that in the end times, even the Saints shall be decieved. Sounds like that has been happening for a while now.

I have nothing against Christians or any religion. But my faith is based on hard evidence. Not fantasy, and not violence. The laws of the Universe will be enforced on the religious and the non-religious. I suspect one law of the Universe would be that under no circumstance should you ever wage War to bring Peace. And if you ever see any black sticky stuff oozing out of the ground, leave it alone! "Progress" or "The search for a way to make a profit" has only lead us to the brink of destruction. To be satisfied by the natural order of things, to embrace simplicity, compassion, diversity in culture, and to turn away from "Progress" is the only way to achieve what the Creator intended. But, of course, this is just my opinion, and not that of Yahooka or any other organization.

Peace. Legalize, then Revolutionize!

Do you know man that even to a heathen like me there is an honesty to what you say that has to be praised , eloquently put I must say.

[makor01]

yeah i refuse to even think that torog has a brain. be contradicts himself everytime he posts.

If we should of gone should not of gone into iraq, the simple fact is that we ARE there. And thousands of our young men and women are dying over there. If you support the war or not, you should at least have some respect for those who stood up and said "yeah ill go even if i may disagree with it, cause its my job". No matter what you write on these boards, left wing right wing, fucking moron or genius...thats not gonna change anything that is and already has happened. If america was so against this war they why the fuck is Bush still president? I cant seem to figure that one out...i know i didnt vote for him, but i still support everyone that is there there with their ass in the mess.

Summed up tho, this is a situation that i see getting much worse before it gets better. There really isnt an easy way out now.

[cotch and bun]

if this is seriosly Your fucking ridiculously stupid presidents "war on terrror" stemming from 9/11 what the fuck is he doing in Iraq? 16 of the 19 hijackers were saudi, i think the rest yemeni. an estimated 100,000 iraqi civilians have been killed. 3000 died on 9/11. George W bush just doesn't get it. this isnt a war on nations its a war on a singular terrorist organisation so you cant just send the marines everywhere to do his dirtywork. I admit saddam was a dick to his people. but how many dick dictators are there in this world? numerous. so why iraq? soft target to make the american public feel there is at least something being done in this stupid "war on terror". all its doing is breeding american hatred across the middle east and making organisations like al-quida bigger.

[Button Basher]

Lol, I remember when Americans were talking about 'capturing those Afghan sumbitches' after 9/11. Suddenly, it's Iraq instead because Bush said so. The entire country changes their opinion instantly. Did someone say 'sheep'?

[amsterdam]

it sure seemed that the iraqis were quite happy on jan. 2?

[Button Basher]

I'm sure they were. Doesn't change my point.

[amsterdam]

just makes it funny.and pointless.move on.

[Button Basher]

Sure, I just thought the whole idea was to make those that caused 9/11 pay.

I'll bet they can't believe their luck :D .

[amsterdam]

and those countries as well as people are being taught a lesson in power.they fucked with the wrong country.

thats why they are focused on WEAK targets like Spain,thailand,etc.

[psychocat]

and those countries as well as people are being taught a lesson in power.they fucked with the wrong country.

thats why they are focused on WEAK targets like Spain,thailand,etc.

Jeez what a load of guff !!
No country has the right to attack another based on lies and bullshit !!
No WMD remember.
America is the biggest manipulator of spin and BS in the world , if they had kept their noses out of other countries affairs they wouldn't have so many enemies.
Just because you have might doesn't make you right.

[Button Basher]

and those countries as well as people are being taught a lesson in power.they fucked with the wrong country.

Lol, but they're not are they. Only Iraq, the place with the oil.

Osama must feel on top of the world. Everyone that died on 9/11 died in vein. He's got nothing to worry about, Iraq's taking the punishment.

What a joke! :D

[amsterdam]

and the typical oil cop out.

actually,the world is undergoing a huge push forward in the direction of democracy.intercepted letters show a falling in support and funding for these murderers.

like i always say,you have more people in LA and New York protesting the war than you do in afghanistan,iraq,ukraine,egypt etc. etc..

once again,liberals are on the wrong side of history.get ready for a republican majority for a long time.

[psychocat]

and the typical oil cop out.

actually,the world is undergoing a huge push forward in the direction of democracy.intercepted letters show a falling in support and funding for these murderers.

like i always say,you have more people in LA and New York protesting the war than you do in afghanistan,iraq,ukraine,egypt etc. etc..

once again,liberals are on the wrong side of history.get ready for a republican majority for a long time.


Once again I am forced to repeat myself because of the ignorance of others , DEFINE LIBERAL ??

I certainly don't consider myself anything when it comes to pigeonholing , my political views are not really in line with any of the major parties.
The attacks on allied forces should give you an idea about how the people of Iraq (please don't try to tell me it's just foreign insurgents because that is BS) feel about the wonderful liberation force.(sic)

[amsterdam]

Once again I am forced to repeat myself because of the ignorance of others , DEFINE LIBERAL ??

I certainly don't consider myself anything when it comes to pigeonholing , my political views are not really in line with any of the major parties.
The attacks on allied forces should give you an idea about how the people of Iraq (please don't try to tell me it's just foreign insurgents because that is BS) feel about the wonderful liberation force.(sic)


you would think 8+ million iraqis who risked their lives to vote in a democratic election would have some impact on your thinking,it dosent.

give that country five years,big things are gonna come from them.they are brave and strong people who will defeat the terrorists.

[Funken Monken]

No, it was not, and what justification that has been produced by all major governments has been proven as a tissue of inacuracy.

Some of the available info is pretty damming, and its interesting (as always) to see amsterdam et al. not giving any factual proof of falsehood, but instead opting for rhetoric, name calling and labelling....but thats the expectation.

[amsterdam]

8 million iraqis aint rhetoric buddy.

like i said,its common sense.

[DJ Cow]

The question isn't should america have gone to war or not, the answear is they simply had no choice. America has been going into the middle east and takin all the oil. And the best part is The United states built sadamm to defeat the irinians if any one can recall that. not only that the US aided afganistan against the russians. Yet The United states still played dictator after the wars and still tried to spread influnece in the middle east. So in reality, america was asking to to go to war and the arabs resonded by destroying the twin towers. If u ask me, i dont call the arabs terrorists, i call them freedom fighters. They want United states rule out of the middle east and i dont blame them. The Middle East belongs to the arabs/ iraquis. For the record the united states had no choice but to go to war. If anything this is a religious war. This war wont be over for a long time. The perfect example of this is jihad and jihid is "any infadele or supporter of the enemy should be exterminated" and that enemy to them is the united states, england and any arabs supporting the united states regime. So when will the war be over, it will be over when all infendales are dead or the whlle middle east is dead, its that simple ladies and gentleman

[ezjim]

Yes

When America was attacked without overt provocation,on September 11, 2001,it constituted an act of War..at that point-we were within our rights--to respond in kind or worse..to anyone or any nation deemed an immediate threat. Given saddam's stated intent to attack the US,and that the US was already under attack in Iraq,in the No-fly zones..yes- We were justified and supported by,a unanimous vote of the UN Security Council--to use force on saddam,in order to gain compliance with pre-existing UN resolutions.

There are strategic considerations,that also weigh in on this issue,but I ain't gonna go into those right now.

Have a good one...Torog
hey torog whats up.. i like most of your posts but i have to respectfully disagree with you on this one we never should have gone to iraq until we finished in afganistan saddam was not a threat and i want osama bin forgottens liver on a stick we were lied to about the threat that iraq posed and because of the war in iraq we have not had the manpower or resources to go after the people who actually did attack us now im not sayin im a G.W. SHRUB or i mean BUSH supporter im not nor was i in favor of kerry they are both related to each other and are both imo very evil people and as far as the UN goes no self respecting redneck or redneck hippy would ever support a orginization thats sole purpose is to destroy the sovereignty of our great nation im sure if you and me sat down and burned one and had a couple cold ones we'd find we agree on most subjects [ 2cnd amendment states rights privacy ect.] but as istated i have to respectfully disagree with you on this one hope all is well down your way and take care bro peace jim

[Killa.Kali]

*reads title*
*laughs and goes about his day*

[Aleax]

and the typical oil cop out.

actually,the world is undergoing a huge push forward in the direction of democracy.intercepted letters show a falling in support and funding for these murderers.

like i always say,you have more people in LA and New York protesting the war than you do in afghanistan,iraq,ukraine,egypt etc. etc..

once again,liberals are on the wrong side of history.get ready for a republican majority for a long time.

Wrong side of history? History is written by the victor, so I guess it just depends who wins.

Republican majority? Ye gods, I hope not. But I fear you may be right. We haven't had a worthwhile Democrat in office since Carter. He almost legalized it, but he failed us at the last minute. And what have Republicans done for us? Nixon founded the DEA, and therefore the War on (some) Drugs. Reagan told us to "just say no" while D.A.R.E. told our children overblown lies about drugs. G.H.W. Bush said "the rules have changed" and "we'll make room" (in jail for drug offenders). Guess that doesn't apply to his cokehead family! Clinton may or may not have inhaled (I personally hope he did), but neither did he do anything to change the status quo. :rolleyes:

The flaw in your thinking is that democracy can truly work in a corner of the world that missed out on the Enlightenment. You know, the age of reason, and the birthplace of the idea of separation of church and state. This NEVER HAPPENED in the middle east, and religious leaders control the state. Politics and religion go hand-in-hand there. This is a bad idea, for historical reasons that should be obvious - the Church of England had enormous political influence and that is exactly what the founders of this country came here to avoid. It seems that Bush and his right-wing bible-beating followers have forgotten that little fact, and seem to want to push their religious ideals on the rest of the country. Just look at Roe v. Wade. Conservatives would love for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. I'm sure they loved the Asscroft v. Raich decision, too. That sickened me, personally. My wife has chronic pain that only chronic seems to relieve, so I can only imagine Angel Raich's plight. That the Supreme Court ruled against her... to me, is just unconscionable. How can we claim to support life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and deny (by force, as usual) a sick woman the medication she needs? That woman is a prisoner in her own body... you don't need to take it any farther than that.

Don't even get me started on the war on Iraq. I'm still trying to figure out what the fuck Saddam Hussein had to do with Osama Bin Laden. It just doesn't seem related at all. And even if it was, is 100,000 Iraqi's lives worth 3,000 of ours? Are we somehow more important than the rest of the world? Wait a minute... don't answer that. I think I already know your answer.

I just get the bad feeling that Iraq is merely a training ground for our troops to practice urban warfare... next thing you know, Lord High Emperor Bush will turn them on the people of this country and make Kent State look like a picnic in the quod. :eek: There's already a bill that has been introduced that would repeal the 22nd amenment, making it possible for Bush to continue seeking office. New Bill (http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/bush_new_bill_make_president_for_life.htm) This should scare EVERYONE, regardless of your political affiliation.

I could be wrong, but what if I'm right? Actually, I'm a bit left of center... I guess if you could call me anything it would be libertarian. Leave me the fuck alone to do as I will. Don't tread on me. The government's only role SHOULD BE to protect its citizens, not persecute them. Jefferson and Washington would agree. I would love to spark a doobie with them, then (after we came down, because this would be a total buzzkill) take them to D.C. to see what a mockery of their original intent this nation has become. They would be absolutely APPALLED. :(

[F L E S H]

You're bang on Aleax. Welcome to cannabis.com!

[amsterdam]

that bill passed yesterday,and you should go and read the bill and see what it means and why it was passed before you invoke the typical knee-jerk.

ah fuck it,long live king george.

[WalkaWalka]

Your Godamn right about the war in Iraq The world trade center bombings were staged
Got to info wars and read up Bubba

I serisouly suggest in investing in assualt type weaponry

[Psycho4Bud]

Your Godamn right about the war in Iraq The world trade center bombings were staged
Got to info wars and read up Bubba

I serisouly suggest in investing in assualt type weaponry

Another Sativa smoker bites the dust...news at 11:00!

BWWWWAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!! :D

[amsterdam]

seriously,what a joke.the issue of national security will never be trusted to the left again,digging their own graves as we speak.

[dankness42o]

no if we were as mad as everyone said we should have did what we did to japan when they attacked pearl harbor nuke em

[amsterdam]

we didnt nuke Japan right after they slaughtered our people.we waited to the last minute to join WW11 and then after a long hard choice decided to drop the bombs.(in the process saving probably a million lives on each side)

[Anousenka]

Yes

When America was attacked without overt provocation,on September 11, 2001,it constituted an act of War..at that point-we were within our rights--to respond in kind or worse..to anyone or any nation deemed an immediate threat. Given saddam's stated intent to attack the US,and that the US was already under attack in Iraq,in the No-fly zones..yes- We were justified and supported by,a unanimous vote of the UN Security Council--to use force on saddam,in order to gain compliance with pre-existing UN resolutions.

There are strategic considerations,that also weigh in on this issue,but I ain't gonna go into those right now.

Have a good one...Torog

OH WHATEVER!!! The US CAUSED the september 11 attacks! You know why? BECAUSE OUR GOVERNMENT IS CORRUPT AND EVIL EVIL EVIL!!! The Bush's are in alliance with the Bin Ladens! Isn't it convenient that noone's found Bin Laden yet? THE BUSHS' ARE PROTECTING HIM! Why? because they want money and power and world domination. We should not be in Iraq, the poor old country has almost fizzled out into nothingness anyway, there's not much we can do to help, everyone there is brainwashed...just like you.

[Anousenka]

no if we were as mad as everyone said we should have did what we did to japan when they attacked pearl harbor nuke em


OH and by the way, the US bombed pearl harbour in secret alliance with Japan because the insane president wanted to be sadistically part of the war. It's this fucking country's fault that all the bad stuff happens. WALT DISNEY WAS ALSO IN ALLIANCE WITH HITLER BY THE WAYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

[Anousenka]

Oh, my goshie! Sorry about those silly posties ^-^ Annousenka really isn't this keyed - uppie usually, heehee ^-^

♥ Annousenka ♥

[MPLSweedman]

why dont you ask the 12 million people we freed over there if it was worth it

alot of them are so ignorant their opinions don't matter but there really are a lot of grateful people over there

[psychocat]

Iraq was attacked twice and thousands of thier citizens killed , the first attack based on what the US and Britain had created, the second to secure business access to the middle east.
Both attacks were completely wrong.

I am pretty damn sure that sectarian violence will continue in Iraq, just as it has all through this occupation.
I am also a firm believer in the edict of "you reap what you sow" and for each person killed by Brit or US forces there will be at least one of thier family who swears revenge. Thats how terrorism works and also where the idea of "one mans terrorist being another mans freedom fighter" comes from.

The dream that all Iraqis are gratefull for our "help" (cough cough) is soured by the knowledge that the same two countries that liberated them from Saddam were once very good buddies with him.

BS wars caused by BS goverments to keep thier house of cards in place and to secure the economic future of the elite groups of families that have always been part of the old boys brigade.

Soooo much bullshit , so little time..:thumbsup:

[overgrowthegovt]

I think I've become one of the site's harshest critics of U.S. foreign policy in general, not just the Iraq War, so you know which way I voted.

MPLSSweedman, one could easily argue that the opinions of your average reality-TV-addicted philistine don't matter...the author of "The Age of American Unreason" (I can't remember her name), was inspired to write it after she overheard one guy telling another about how Pearl Harbour started the Vietnam War. These people shape their values based on cultural tradition and what they've been told just as much as any Iraqi citizen. The lies are different, but equally poisonous.

What viewpoint has caused, from a utilitarian perspective, more death, the view that non-Muslims are infidels who should be blown up, or the view that it is the duty of the morally superior U.S. to enforce its values throughout the world? The answer's easy.

Edit: That seemed to imply that the guy thought Pearl Harbour started Vietnam because that's what he's been taught...that isn't the case, of course; the case is that intellectual curiosity is basically dead, and all anyone wants to do is kick back to the latest vacuous entertainment, assured that their government must have the right basic values. The notion that their leaders' values may be wrong and destructive isn't one entertained by many.

[Delta9 UK]

Wow, this thread is 4 years old!

Don't forget! Only 80% of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi...

oh, wait...

[MPLSweedman]

any way you look at it, if you threaten the USA you will get fucked up

you mess with the best, you die like the rest. dont fuck with america and expect us to sit back and watch like pansy ass french or canadians. we get it done

[psychocat]

any way you look at it, if you threaten the USA you will get fucked up

you mess with the best, you die like the rest. dont fuck with america and expect us to sit back and watch like pansy ass french or canadians. we get it done

How did Iraq mess with the US?
How did Afghanistan mess with the US?
How did you come to such a stupid conclusion ?

I believe that if you check your history you will find that the US only has itself to blame for the hatred directed towards them.
The US has constantly interfered in the business of both countries.
Have you forgotten how the US helped Saddam?
Or how the Iranians were allies to the US in Afghanistan?
Or how the US was instrumental in allowing the Taliban to buy weapons through proxies ?

Please don't insult my intelligence by bringing 9/11 into the argument as neither the Afghans or Iraqis were implicated in any way.

[MPLSweedman]

maybe we shouldve just let saddam stay in power, he wouldve came close to hitler in number of murders

you non-americans have absolutely ZERO right to tell us how to fight our wars

theres a good reason we're america and you arent

[psychocat]

maybe we shouldve just let saddam stay in power, he wouldve came close to hitler in number of murders

2 posts in and already you're throwing Hitler into the mix , that's gotta be a record.

Did you skip the bit about the aid that Saddam recieved from the US during the Iraq/Iran conflict?


you non-americans have absolutely ZERO right to tell us how to fight our wars
America has zero right to tell others what they can or cannot do but the arrogance of your goverment knows no bounds.
How about calling out your foreign policy of interference and destabilisation of supposed unfriendly regimes?
Please enlighten me ,when did Saddam declare war on America , did we all miss the Afghan declaration too ?
America took it upon themselves to ignore any real information and go with what suited them and thier interests.


theres a good reason we're america and you arent
Because we're too smart to be ?
Or are you assuming that the very fact that you're an American means that you're always right? LMAO


Are you one of those people who believes in the "we got nukes so we always right and if you disagree we'll bomb ya" !
I do hope not .

[DaBudhaStank]

maybe we shouldve just let saddam stay in power, he wouldve came close to hitler in number of murders

you non-americans have absolutely ZERO right to tell us how to fight our wars

theres a good reason we're america and you arent

Lol, how are you even still alive?

[overgrowthegovt]

MPLSWeedman...I join DaBudhaStank in expressing my incredulity at your remaining alive (or being able to to tie your shoes). As a "pansy ass Canadian", as you put it, my opinion doesn't matter, but it's clear to anybody that you have no knowledge of wordly affairs whatsoever, no ability to grasp another perspective, no ability to transcend the xenophobic propaganda of your tyrannical government (who has caused more death than Saddam).

I have ZERO right to tell you how to fight your wars? Since all critical debate has been dismissed with a strawman of patriotic, exceptionalist elitism, please feel free to ignore me when I say you have ZERO right to justify your country's savage butchery, horrendous war crimes and shameful disrespect for other nations' sovereignty and right to freedom from economic and cultural imperialism. I'm typically more polite than this, but don't ever, ever fucking try to shut people up with an assertion that you're American and we're not. An American citizen is no more human, more intelligent (as you illustrate quite well), or more deserving of peace and a quiet family life than the citizens of any other country in the world, a concept that seems to get lost in ethnocentric arrogance. Iraqi civilians love their families just as much as you do, and when their brother gets blown to bits they feel it just like anyone else.

[Delta9 UK]

alot of them are so ignorant their opinions don't matter but there really are a lot of grateful people over there

Oh boy does this thread deliver - in spades!

If it wasn't so cripplingly appropriate, this might even be funny.

[MPLSweedman]

say what you will

i just hate reading about canadians' views on america and the war in iraq

when members of your family are killed for no reason in 9-11 you'd agree with me too, but no one bothers attacking canada


show me the civillian deaths like you claim, you guys are believing straight up lies. the numbers are over-exxagerated to get libs like you all fired up. the terrorists over there are animals, blowing up anything they can shoot. i would like to invite ANY of you to talk to a real US marine about what life is like over there and it will change your views completely. iraqi women and children are being recruited as suicide bombers

the honest to god truth is that the american military did a great thing for the iraqi people. no matter who you are or what you think, liberating 12 million from saddam hussein outweighs a few civillian deaths

the problems iraq faces in 2009 are solely religious issues

america did all it could, single-handedly took care of saddam and gave a new chance at life to all of the people. when the sunnis and shiites dont get along, america has no say in what happens. i believe religion is the cause of all wars and until the islamics settle their shit then its never going to work

[overgrowthegovt]

Go to iraqbodycount.org, if you're convinced claims of civilian death are false fuel for liberal rage. This is just Iraq, mind...the death and destruction wrought by your heroes, the American military, elsewhere in the world, would be a much larger number.

If you think the 9/11 attacks were for no reason, examine the U.S.'s foreign policy a little more closely.

I'm not asking this to be insulting; I'm genuinely curious: do you truly believe that the Iraq War is a philanthropic deed, the sole motive for invasion being to kindly liberate the people from an oppressive regime? If that's the case, I guess they need to invade Saudi Arabia, China, half of Africa, etc. next. Or...perhaps ulterior motives come into play?

And hey, I'm not anti-American in the sense that I have anything against the people, and I'm equally critical of my own government's moronic decision to go into Afghanistan.

Oh, by the way, trying to justify civilian death in a whirlwind of rhetoric is cool and to be expected. Denying its existence is not. I have a friend who's joining the army next year, and we've had countless debates about the morality of armed intervention...he also denies Afghani civilians are being murdered by Canadian troops. Japan also claims to this day that the Nanking Massacre was a big exaggeration.

[psychocat]

say what you will

i just hate reading about canadians' views on america and the war in iraq

when members of your family are killed for no reason in 9-11 you'd agree with me too, but no one bothers attacking canada


show me the civillian deaths like you claim, you guys are believing straight up lies. the numbers are over-exxagerated to get libs like you all fired up. the terrorists over there are animals, blowing up anything they can shoot. i would like to invite ANY of you to talk to a real US marine about what life is like over there and it will change your views completely. iraqi women and children are being recruited as suicide bombers

the honest to god truth is that the american military did a great thing for the iraqi people. no matter who you are or what you think, liberating 12 million from saddam hussein outweighs a few civillian deaths

the problems iraq faces in 2009 are solely religious issues

america did all it could, single-handedly took care of saddam and gave a new chance at life to all of the people. when the sunnis and shiites dont get along, america has no say in what happens. i believe religion is the cause of all wars and until the islamics settle their shit then its never going to work

You fail to see the fault in this statement, what does 9/11(mainly Saudi) terrorist attack have to do with the unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation ?
America did nothing single handed , did you forget that it was a joint attack ?
A marine is hardly going to be in a position to tell anyone how the Iraqis feel, I imagine that Iraqis feel the same way you would if they had invaded the US.
I bet you would be out there waving them on as great liberators.. :D

Religion has caused wars ... BUT ... nowhere near as many as greed has.

You really have no idea of my political affiliations so the liberal tag is completely wasted, I'm more a fuck humanity kind of anarchist if the truth be told.
I'm not liberal , I'm not even sociable... :thumbsup:

[painretreat]

Hey pc nice to see ya--lol, you never fail to entertain and edumakate!!!

I support our soldiers for doing whatever we ask, even if we don't believe in it, we have to when we have our brothers and sisters there!

I do not think we should have started the war in Iraq, but I do feel we needed something done. The idea we are chicken shit here and won't fight, I think not. I may seem passive, but I've killed a rattlesnake before!

I believe greed started this war in Iraq and one man's vengence. He should have taken Michael Phelps bong or the American Indian Peace Pipe and put some peace smoke in it. If it didn't work, dope him with the 'truth serum' and make him talk, would be a shorter war. Crap, we didn't even dope him before we sentenced him. Imagine all the military info they could have gotten! When someone kills so many civilians over many years, they should have no rights! Saddam was a very bad person and was killing too many of his own people.

It wasn't until this war I understood Monday morning Quartback analogies! TGIalmostF PR :rastasmoke:

[bobthenuker]

any way you look at it, if you threaten the USA you will get fucked up

you mess with the best, you die like the rest. dont fuck with america and expect us to sit back and watch like pansy ass french or canadians. we get it done

:S2:

You make me laugh man...I don't even think that you believe half the stuff you say...I could be wrong on that though. AMERICA AMERICA WOO WE'RE THE BEST AT EVERYTHING...YES, DOESN'T MATTER IF OUR GOVERNMENT IS RIGHT OR WRONG, AS LONG AS WE'RE NOT SMELLY FRENCH OR CANADIANS!! How about you have a nice serving of...

[painretreat]

Is it possible to stop calling a person Canadian, French and American without it sounding like an insult! This is an international site and that is simply offensive! IT OUGHT TO BE ANOTHER THREAD AT THE VERY LEAST!:(
Unless the person is the President, Czar, Dictator of the country, they are not single handedly running their country! Even though we feel the responsibility of our Gov't's, it does not mean we personally made the decision's. The hatred makes it difficult to understand the issue! :hippy: :jointsmile: