Sicko

[rebgirl420]

Which is of course Michael Moore's new movie abou the healthcare system of America.
Sicko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicko)

He even goes to Cuba to try to prove that their system is better than ours. So what do YOU think?

[delusionsofNORMALity]

....the guy has found his niche.

by amplifying the negative aspects of society and downplaying the positive he has created a rather enviable spot for himself. he has managed to place himself in the position of being both reviled and revered, but even his most ardent admirers seem to view him as a bit of a self-important prick. considering his methods, a rational person should probably view his work with a healthy dose of skepticism.

however, considering the limited number of rational people in the world today, his place in history is most likely assured. for the next 15 minutes, at least.

[birdgirl73]

At least in Cuba the poor and uninsured have health care, Rebgirl. That is an advantage, despite what people may think, and those folks are very happy with that fact. Ask most Cubans who're old enough to remember whether they're in better shape under Castro and Communism than they were before 1959 and they'll tell you yes across the board.

I can say this with a relative degree assurance since my husband works in medicine and since I am training to do the same. No matter how much people disagree with Michael Moore and his political stance, the facts are that pharmaceutical companies and big insurance DO drive our health care here. It's downright scary, too. Yep, the people who are insured can access quality health care in America, but the ones who are not cannot. They can't usually even get inferior care. And they certainly can't afford drugs. And now it's been fixed for at least another political season that no one in the U.S. can import drugs from less expensive places such as Canada.

Someday if you're ever in Texas, I'd like to take you to an average doctor's office and let you watch the goings-on for, oh, about four days. You'll see the pharmaceutical reps come in constantly all day long and bring lunch for the entire office staff, give gifts, push free samples of the newest (and most expensive drugs) so the docs will write scripts for those and not the more affordable ones. They pay for trips and junkets for doctors and pay stipends so they'll prescribe those meds. Most doctors just roll over and lap up all the freebies and money. That ought to be illegal. It's payola for doctors just like paying bonuses through HMOs to under-treat is--or like special interest money is for politicians. Docs like my husband, who resist the hard sell and shun the money and trips and freebies so they can maintain their objectivity, are very rare. Fortunately, cardiologists treat a large percentage of elderly patients, so they have to make sure they're prescribing the less expensive drugs.

Our medical system is scary as hell in its current state. And with each passing year, fewer and fewer people can afford to get treatment or care and more and more influence is exerted from big Pharma and big Insurance. That's a crying shame.

[Psycho4Bud]

The healthcare system is a mess but Micky mouse Moore doesn't care.........look at his fat ass and tell me he's concerned about health care. He's a twinky away from a heart attack right now.....hope he stays in Cuba after his treatment.:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

[RamblerGambler]

It's always refreshing to see Michael Moore pop up, just to see the sputtering outrage that follows. He may not always be right, but he's learned to produce the same kind of attacks repubs have always favored, and turn them back on their makers. If you can't stand the heat...

[rebgirl420]

At least in Cuba the poor and uninsured have health care, Rebgirl. That is an advantage, despite what people may think, and those folks are very happy with that fact. Ask most Cubans who're old enough to remember whether they're in better shape under Castro and Communism than they were before 1959 and they'll tell you yes across the board.

I can say this with a relative degree assurance since my husband works in medicine and since I am training to do the same. No matter how much people disagree with Michael Moore and his political stance, the facts are that pharmaceutical companies and big insurance DO drive our health care here. It's downright scary, too. Yep, the people who are insured can access quality health care in America, but the ones who are not cannot. They can't usually even get inferior care. And they certainly can't afford drugs. And now it's been fixed for at least another political season that no one in the U.S. can import drugs from less expensive places such as Canada.

Someday if you're ever in Texas, I'd like to take you to an average doctor's office and let you watch the goings-on for, oh, about four days. You'll see the pharmaceutical reps come in constantly all day long and bring lunch for the entire office staff, give gifts, push free samples of the newest (and most expensive drugs) so the docs will write scripts for those and not the more affordable ones. They pay for trips and junkets for doctors and pay stipends so they'll prescribe those meds. Most doctors just roll over and lap up all the freebies and money. That ought to be illegal. It's payola for doctors just like paying bonuses through HMOs to under-treat is--or like special interest money is for politicians. Docs like my husband, who resist the hard sell and shun the money and trips and freebies so they can maintain their objectivity, are very rare. Fortunately, cardiologists treat a large percentage of elderly patients, so they have to make sure they're prescribing the less expensive drugs.

Our medical system is scary as hell in its current state. And with each passing year, fewer and fewer people can afford to get treatment or care and more and more influence is exerted from big Pharma and big Insurance. That's a crying shame.

I myself am against socialized healthcare of ANY type however I do know what you mean. When I had cancer there were those free sample people EVERYWHERE! I also know that they take out the doctors too. It's shady yes, but to me I feel its better than having the government take over.

[Psycho4Bud]

It's always refreshing to see Michael Moore pop up, just to see the sputtering outrage that follows. He may not always be right, but he's learned to produce the same kind of attacks repubs have always favored, and turn them back on their makers. If you can't stand the heat...

Any examples on that one? The last anti-dem flick that I can recall good ol' Bill Clinton demanded that it be edited and it was!

Have a good one!:s4:

[rebgirl420]

Michael Moore Faces U.S. Treasury Probe
Thursday May 10 5:27 AM ET


Academy Award-winning filmmaker Michael Moore is under investigation by the U.S. Treasury Department for taking ailing Sept. 11 rescue workers to Cuba for a segment in his upcoming health-care documentary "Sicko," The Associated Press has learned.

The investigation provides another contentious lead-in for a provocative film by Moore, a fierce critic of President Bush. In the past, Moore's adversaries have fanned publicity that helped the filmmaker create a new brand of opinionated blockbuster documentary.

"Sicko" promises to take the health-care industry to task the way Moore confronted America's passion for guns in "Bowling for Columbine" and skewered Bush over his handling of Sept. 11 in "Fahrenheit 9/11."


The Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control notified Moore in a letter dated May 2 that it was conducting a civil investigation for possible violations of the U.S. trade embargo restricting travel to Cuba. A copy of the letter was obtained Tuesday by the AP.

"This office has no record that a specific license was issued authorizing you to engage in travel-related transactions involving Cuba," Dale Thompson, OFAC chief of general investigations and field operations, wrote in the letter to Moore.

In February, Moore took about 10 ailing workers from the Ground Zero rescue effort in Manhattan for treatment in Cuba, said a person working with the filmmaker on the release of "Sicko." The person requested anonymity because Moore's attorneys had not yet determined how to respond.

Moore, who scolded Bush over the Iraq war during the 2003 Oscar telecast, received the letter Monday, the person said. "Sicko" premieres May 19 at the Cannes Film Festival and debuts in U.S. theaters June 29.

Moore declined to comment, said spokeswoman Lisa Cohen.

After receiving the letter, Moore arranged to place a copy of the film in a "safe house" outside the country to protect it from government interference, said the person working on the release of the film.

Treasury officials declined to answer questions about the letter. "We don't comment on enforcement actions," said department spokeswoman Molly Millerwise.

The letter noted that Moore applied Oct. 12, 2006, for permission to go to Cuba "but no determination had been made by OFAC." Moore sought permission to travel there under a provision for full-time journalists, the letter said.

According to the letter, Moore was given 20 business days to provide OFAC with such information as the date of travel and point of departure; the reason for the Cuba trip and his itinerary there; and the names and addresses of those who accompanied him, along with their reasons for going.

Potential penalties for violating the embargo were not indicated. In 2003, the New York Yankees paid the government $75,000 to settle a dispute that it conducted business in Cuba in violation of the embargo. No specifics were released about that case.

"Sicko" is Moore's followup to 2004's "Fahrenheit 9/11," a $100 million hit criticizing the Bush administration over Sept. 11. Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" won the 2002 Oscar for best documentary.

A dissection of the U.S. health-care system, "Sicko" was inspired by a segment on Moore's TV show "The Awful Truth," in which he staged a mock funeral outside a health-maintenance organization that had declined a pancreas transplant for a diabetic man. The HMO later relented.

At last September's Toronto International Film Festival, Moore previewed footage shot for "Sicko," presenting stories of personal health-care nightmares. One scene showed a woman who was denied payment for an ambulance ride after a head-on collision because it was not preapproved.

Moore's opponents have accused him of distorting the facts, and his Cuba trip provoked criticism from conservatives including former Republican Sen. Fred Thompson, who assailed the filmmaker in a blog at National Review Online.

"I have no expectation that Moore is going to tell the truth about Cuba or health care," wrote Thompson, the subject of speculation about a possible presidential run. "I defend his right to do what he does, but Moore's talent for clever falsehoods has been too well documented."

The timing of the investigation is reminiscent of the firestorm that preceded the Cannes debut of "Fahrenheit 9/11," which won the festival's top prize in 2004. The Walt Disney Co. refused to let subsidiary Miramax release the film because of its political content, prompting Miramax bosses Harvey and Bob Weinstein to release "Fahrenheit 9/11" on their own.

The Weinsteins later left Miramax to form the Weinstein Co., which is releasing "Sicko." They declined to comment on the Treasury investigation, said company spokeswoman Sarah Levinson Rothman.

[Fengzi]

At least in Cuba the poor and uninsured have health care, Rebgirl. That is an advantage, despite what people may think, and those folks are very happy with that fact. Ask most Cubans who're old enough to remember whether they're in better shape under Castro and Communism than they were before 1959 and they'll tell you yes across the board.

I can say this with a relative degree assurance since my husband works in medicine and since I am training to do the same. No matter how much people disagree with Michael Moore and his political stance, the facts are that pharmaceutical companies and big insurance DO drive our health care here. It's downright scary, too. Yep, the people who are insured can access quality health care in America, but the ones who are not cannot. They can't usually even get inferior care. And they certainly can't afford drugs. And now it's been fixed for at least another political season that no one in the U.S. can import drugs from less expensive places such as Canada.

Someday if you're ever in Texas, I'd like to take you to an average doctor's office and let you watch the goings-on for, oh, about four days. You'll see the pharmaceutical reps come in constantly all day long and bring lunch for the entire office staff, give gifts, push free samples of the newest (and most expensive drugs) so the docs will write scripts for those and not the more affordable ones. They pay for trips and junkets for doctors and pay stipends so they'll prescribe those meds. Most doctors just roll over and lap up all the freebies and money. That ought to be illegal. It's payola for doctors just like paying bonuses through HMOs to under-treat is--or like special interest money is for politicians. Docs like my husband, who resist the hard sell and shun the money and trips and freebies so they can maintain their objectivity, are very rare. Fortunately, cardiologists treat a large percentage of elderly patients, so they have to make sure they're prescribing the less expensive drugs.

Our medical system is scary as hell in its current state. And with each passing year, fewer and fewer people can afford to get treatment or care and more and more influence is exerted from big Pharma and big Insurance. That's a crying shame.

There are pros and cons to each Birdgirl. My experience with socialized medicine is that it's great for basic things but when something really goes wrong you're screwed. I got serious food poisoning when I was living in China and had to go to the hospital. A day at the hospital, with all kinds of tests, and a sack of meds cost me 25 yuan, about US$3.00. The last time we took our daughter back she got bad bronchitis and we had to take her in to the hospital. Her doctor visit and meds were free. Sounds great, right? But when my father in law got cancer, there was no one around for miles and miles who could treat him. Fortunately he knew somebody, who knew somebody, who knew somebody who was a specialist in Shanghai and agreed to see him, but only if he could come up with US$30K. Fortunately between my wife and I, and my brother in law, the money wasn't a problem but that's not the case with the vast majority of folks.

Socialized medicine really seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of thing. And, until our government starts to think that it's better to spend billions a year to keep our citizens healthy than to kill Iraq's, it always will be.

[rebgirl420]

^^ The thory of it is good: Why shouldnt everyone have health coverage? But like most liberal ideas their good on paper but they just dont pan out.

[dannyboy420]

Michael Moore has a habit of lying and misrepresention when it suits him.

In his famed Roger and Me, the premise of which is that he could never actually get time with the GM head Roger Smith, he left out the fact that he had an extended Q&A with Smith. This isn't new, but it is overlooked -- along with all his other tricks.

A couple of filmmakers have turned the camera on Moore in an upcoming documentry called Manufacturing Dissent.

See: Manufacturing Dissent (2007) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0961117/)

[Markass]

At least in Cuba the poor and uninsured have health care, Rebgirl. That is an advantage, despite what people may think, and those folks are very happy with that fact. Ask most Cubans who're old enough to remember whether they're in better shape under Castro and Communism than they were before 1959 and they'll tell you yes across the board.

I can say this with a relative degree assurance since my husband works in medicine and since I am training to do the same. No matter how much people disagree with Michael Moore and his political stance, the facts are that pharmaceutical companies and big insurance DO drive our health care here. It's downright scary, too. Yep, the people who are insured can access quality health care in America, but the ones who are not cannot. They can't usually even get inferior care. And they certainly can't afford drugs. And now it's been fixed for at least another political season that no one in the U.S. can import drugs from less expensive places such as Canada.

Someday if you're ever in Texas, I'd like to take you to an average doctor's office and let you watch the goings-on for, oh, about four days. You'll see the pharmaceutical reps come in constantly all day long and bring lunch for the entire office staff, give gifts, push free samples of the newest (and most expensive drugs) so the docs will write scripts for those and not the more affordable ones. They pay for trips and junkets for doctors and pay stipends so they'll prescribe those meds. Most doctors just roll over and lap up all the freebies and money. That ought to be illegal. It's payola for doctors just like paying bonuses through HMOs to under-treat is--or like special interest money is for politicians. Docs like my husband, who resist the hard sell and shun the money and trips and freebies so they can maintain their objectivity, are very rare. Fortunately, cardiologists treat a large percentage of elderly patients, so they have to make sure they're prescribing the less expensive drugs.

Our medical system is scary as hell in its current state. And with each passing year, fewer and fewer people can afford to get treatment or care and more and more influence is exerted from big Pharma and big Insurance. That's a crying shame.

well said :thumbsup:

[medicinal]

The Medical system in this country is a piece of shit. If you have an HMO, or have nothing, you'll know what I mean. The money spent on lobbying and doctors junkets to keep the status quo is horrendous. The politicians are bought off by the HMOs and The pharmaceutical companies. I believe if the money being spent to keep the politicians and the doctors in line was used to create a "comprehensive" medical plan that included every "citizen", we could fire a bundle of CEOs (With exhorbitant salaries) and by adding all the money paid by clients through a tax, a significantly lower amount, we could field a medical society that would be much better than the current one. To be the richest country on the planet and be in the bottom 40% of medical care is appaling. We have to eliminate insurance companies and HMOs. The only ones that like this plan are the people that have premium medical coverage like senators and congressmen, CEOs and upper management of large corporations. My personal med care is adequate, but only because I have not been very Ill. who knows what would happen if I contracted a dibilitating disease. BTW, Michael Moore speaks more truth in one sentence than all the politicians in washington do in a year.

[rebgirl420]

My insurance is wonderful! It paid for all of my chemo, surgeries, radiation, my bipolar meds, everything!

[medicinal]

My insurance is wonderful! It paid for all of my chemo, surgeries, radiation, my bipolar meds, everything!

Good for you, you are one of the lucky 5% who have decent Med insurance. The other 95% have insufficient coverage or no coverage. Wait, did I hear Bi-polar meds, Ok, now I'll have to ease up on you. That means you can be nice one minute and a b**** the next. My stepson is Bipolar, a rather severe case. He is actually a paranoid schizophrenic and periodically wigs out and goes to the mental ward. They've tried many types of meds to help him, and sometimes he is fine for a few months, but I guess he builds up a tolerance to the meds and he wigs out again. I really feel sorry for him as he is such a tortured soul.

[Fengzi]

Yippee, I'm in the 5% too...

Seriously though. although I'm not a supporter of socialized medicine I will certainly agree the system needs a major overhaul. The gifts, trips, and other incentives that big pharma gives to doctors are nothing more than bribery which, the last time I looked, was illegal in this country. In addition, insurance companies should not be allowed to pressure doctors into not doing this or that test or not prescribing a certain medicine (or push then to prescribe a certain medicine for that matter).

One other thing that nobody has brought up yet though, is the fact that one aspect of our society is greatly contributing to the cost of health care. That is the fact that we are sue happy. If anything goes wrong, or not just the way a patient wanted, they want to sue, and there is a line of lawyers waiting outside the hospital door waiting for them. Depending on their specialty doctors can expect to pay $50K-$100K+ per year. I can't even imagine what a hospital might pay. This adds up quick and someone has to pay for it.

Sure, there are plenty of cases where a doctor is clearly negligent and should pay, and the victim, or their families, is compensated. But people also need to realize that doctors aren't gods. An open heart surgury is an attempt to save a person. It's not a gaurantee of eternal life. Some complications are exactly that. There are far to many cases of a patient trying to benefit as much as possible from a minor inconvenience caused by a complication. Some people even hope something goes wrong just so they can sue. "Hell, I'll lose a toe if it means I can get a million buck$". Don't people realize they are just contributing to the problem?

[birdgirl73]

There are pros and cons to each Birdgirl. My experience with socialized medicine is that it's great for basic things but when something really goes wrong you're screwed. I got serious food poisoning when I was living in China and had to go to the hospital. A day at the hospital, with all kinds of tests, and a sack of meds cost me 25 yuan, about US$3.00. The last time we took our daughter back she got bad bronchitis and we had to take her in to the hospital. Her doctor visit and meds were free. Sounds great, right? But when my father in law got cancer, there was no one around for miles and miles who could treat him. Fortunately he knew somebody, who knew somebody, who knew somebody who was a specialist in Shanghai and agreed to see him, but only if he could come up with US$30K. Fortunately between my wife and I, and my brother in law, the money wasn't a problem but that's not the case with the vast majority of folks.

Socialized medicine really seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of thing. And, until our government starts to think that it's better to spend billions a year to keep our citizens healthy than to kill Iraq's, it always will be.
Why the disparity in medical costs for the treatment of your father-in-law, Fengzi? Because it was cancer? Admittedly, that is a more expensive disease anywhere than, say, food poisoning or pediatric pneumonia. But I'm just wondering about such a huge disparity, particularly in China.

I agree that there are damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't aspects to the prospect of socialized medicine here. All the opponents say it'll affect our quality of care as it has in other places, and they may well be right. There'll certainly be some bumps and bruises as we're adjusting, assuming we ever get such a system, which, with the current medical, pharmaceutical, insurance, and hospital corporation lobby, is highly unlikely. In the end, we need to make some adjustments to incorporate aspects of both a private and public system. I think it'll have to be a cooperative effort among private employers, contributors (the insured), and a national system. That cooperative effort will help maintain some quality and some of the good aspects of the current system. It'll probably lengthen our wait times for care. And the growing pains will be miserable.

One thing is true, however. The groups who're wailing the loudest in opposition to the idea of a national health care program--conservative doctors, the AMA, the pharma, hospital and insurance industries--are the ones who also wailed the loudest 40 years ago about Medicare and Medicaid when they were implemented. These are companies and individuals who are richer than God, for the most part, and who are brilliantly adept at adjusting their methods so they'll still benefit immensely from a new system. They did that in the 1960s and can do it again. Doctors aren't going to find themselves out in the cold or dying from poverty or providing inferior care to patients, although 9 our of 10 will say that's what'll happen. They'll reinvent themselves and rise from the ashes like the skilled phoenices they are. What may suffer for a time is the quantity of trained professionals to deal with all the newly covered patients. We have a nursing shortage as it is. And we're increasingly seeing a doctor shortage. So that'll be a challenge to overcome. We also won't be able to create a system that provides as well for people who live in remote, rural areas. Patients who live in urban or suburban areas near major medical centers will continue to have more choices and better access to care, I'm afraid.

Hey, Reb, I'm glad you had good coverage. I have, too, for the most part. But I expect if you ask your parents about your insurance coverage, you'll find that you got such good coverage of your Hodgkins treatment because that was a few years ago. If you developed that cancer today, your parents would pick up a larger percentage of those expenses. Our health care plan used to pay 100% of covered expenses. This year it covers 90. Next year it'll be 80. And that's a very good plan. More and more plans nowadays pay only 40% or 50%. The benefits go down with each passing year. Check with your mom and dad or whoever carries you on insurance and see if your coverage would be the same today as it was a few years back. If it's anything like the insurance most people have, the answer is no.

[Matt the Funk]

I'm somewhat excited to see this movie.

[Fengzi]

Why the disparity in medical costs for the treatment of your father-in-law, Fengzi? Because it was cancer? Admittedly, that is a more expensive disease anywhere than, say, food poisoning or pediatric pneumonia. But I'm just wondering about such a huge disparity, particularly in China.

.

Why? Corruption and the fact that a good specialist was hard to find. The $30 wasn't exactly for his treatment. It was paid directly to the doctor for the priviledge of being his patient. My father-in-law had a tumor on his liver and the local docs pretty much just told him to get his affairs in order becasue his time was up. But someone who went to school with my bother-in-law knew somebody who knew one of the top liver guys in Asia (supposedly).The good doc said he'd operate but there would be a charge. Of course the $30 payment had a fancy name, can't remember it exactly, but a box of shit is still a box of shit even if you put a fancy ribbon on it. This has actually become a huge problem in China. Even with socialized medicine the problem is the same. The wealthy get treated and the poor don't.

[rebgirl420]

Good for you, you are one of the lucky 5% who have decent Med insurance. The other 95% have insufficient coverage or no coverage. Wait, did I hear Bi-polar meds, Ok, now I'll have to ease up on you. That means you can be nice one minute and a b**** the next. My stepson is Bipolar, a rather severe case. He is actually a paranoid schizophrenic and periodically wigs out and goes to the mental ward. They've tried many types of meds to help him, and sometimes he is fine for a few months, but I guess he builds up a tolerance to the meds and he wigs out again. I really feel sorry for him as he is such a tortured soul.

Yeah i'm schizo also, and bipolar w/ psychotic features. But after being sent away to JDC and the mental hospital I was court ordered to be on meds and Ive taken them since. I havent had a problem since.

[birdgirl73]

Why? Corruption and the fact that a good specialist was hard to find. The $30 wasn't exactly for his treatment. It was paid directly to the doctor for the priviledge of being his patient. My father-in-law had a tumor on his liver and the local docs pretty much just told him to get his affairs in order becasue his time was up. But someone who went to school with my bother-in-law knew somebody who knew one of the top liver guys in Asia (supposedly).The good doc said he'd operate but there would be a charge. Of course the $30 payment had a fancy name, can't remember it exactly, but a box of shit is still a box of shit even if you put a fancy ribbon on it. This has actually become a huge problem in China. Even with socialized medicine the problem is the same. The wealthy get treated and the poor don't.
OK, now I'm confused. Here you wrote $30 but up above you wrote $30K, which was what I was responding to in asking about the disparity. Did they refer to it as a sort of "honorarium"? That's a fancy name for a fee, from what I've heard. Whatever it was, how'd your father-in-law do with his treatment?

I'm afraid that fact about the wealthy in China getting treatment and the poor not being able to is likely to still be the case here, too, even if we get a new health care system. I'm afraid that's one of the unfair bottom-line inequities, and my gut tells me it won't change here, either. At least not in a lot of cases.

[fishman3811]

Rebgirl you said socialized medicine is good in theory but....Well France has the best healthcare in the world rated number 1 by the world health organization and its socialized medicine.All of the industrialized countries in the world have socialized medicine.Yes its not perfect but it can be pretty dam close.Up here in Canada our health care could be better due to the long waiting lines for just about any kind of surgery,but if i ever get cancer or something serious like that ill get treatment ASAP and i wont have to worry about losing my house or going bankcrupt.Im not saying our system is better than yours but i wouldnt trade it for yours either.Socialized medicine does work and it has been working in many countries for generations.

[mrdevious]

Rebgirl you said socialized medicine is good in theory but....Well France has the best healthcare in the world rated number 1 by the world health organization and its socialized medicine.All of the industrialized countries in the world have socialized medicine.Yes its not perfect but it can be pretty dam close.Up here in Canada our health care could be better due to the long waiting lines for just about any kind of surgery,but if i ever get cancer or something serious like that ill get treatment ASAP and i wont have to worry about losing my house or going bankcrupt.Im not saying our system is better than yours but i wouldnt trade it for yours either.Socialized medicine does work and it has been working in many countries for generations.


I don't know about cancer man, but I can't count how many news stories I've heard about people waiting forever for surgeries that their lives depend on, and often dying on the waiting list for because there's no paid-health option for them. My mom's friend had 2 herniated disks with terrible pain, and it took her 3 years just to get surgery for one of them. The other is still waiting.
I had to wait 2 years for an MRI on my spine, and 2 1/2 just to get a deviated septim in my nose fixed (simple day surgery).

You are right though, there are some major perks to our system (though damnit I wish they'd at least help pay for meds). I've taken countless trips to the doctor for my medical problems that I can't imagine how much would have cost me, but instead are 100% free. My nose surgery, MRI, 2 x-rays, trips to the rheumatologist, neurosurgeon, and neurologist, 100% free. Chiropractor, massage therapy, acupuncture, and physiotherapy, they'll subsidize about 2/3 for 10 visits a year (not each, collectively). I think it's a lame amount of subsidized visits, but it still saves me a few hundred (and I'm poor as is).
Also my brother was in childrens hospital to asess his mental conditions for 2 months, 100% free. My sister's had 10 surgeries for numerous reasons and that's all been free. LOL, you can also get your wisdom teeth removed for free at the hospital, but the asshole dentists will tell you to come and see them and pay through the nose for it.

I'd also like to point out that our medical system has been improving as we develope more innovations for the system, and in theory it could still be brought up to par on wait times. It's become fact recently (in politics) that we need many more doctors and nurses. IMO everybody's debating about how to get more when I think the answer is obvious; UP THEIR PAY. GP's here make an average salary of $95,000 a year here while they can make 3x as much more in America, where they're all running off too. People always give me this disgusted answer around the lines of "oh sure, give the rich doctors more money!", but realistically YES that's what we need to do to keep them!
Also the NDP (who invented our healthcare system under Tommy Douglas) wants to set up a national database accessable by whoever your doctor is wherever you go, to cut down wait times and make the system more efficient. I can't remember the details at the moment, but from the explanation I've heard it seems like it would save a good deal of money on administrative costs.
Other hospitals, especially in Alberta, have massively reduced surgery wait times by setting up rooms where doctors just do one type of surgery (knee-replacement was the first) all day (chaning doctors on shifts of course). This strategy has seen the most successful results of any that I've seen so far. I'm sure more will come.

[fishman3811]

True our system is not perfect but a friend of mine had lung cancer and she say the specialist within a week and was getting chemo the next.but in wpg we have a pretty good cancer care center.95 000 $ for a GP but isnt that just base salary because every patient they see they get an extra 25$ and every prescription they write they get an extra 15$ or so ive been told.In wpg here we have the countries best cosmetic surgeon he works out of the hospital and he deals with burn victims and others that have been disfigured and my wife who works at the hospital told me he gets paid 250 000$ a year plus he has a side cosmectic practice.My family doctor during the summer every weekend is a long weekend for him because he takes every friday off,so these doctors may scream for more money but they are not hurting.But it all depends on what part of the country your in also .Waiting times for surgery is way too long and it does need fixing but at least its free.

[Fengzi]

OK, now I'm confused. Here you wrote $30 but up above you wrote $30K, which was what I was responding to in asking about the disparity. Did they refer to it as a sort of "honorarium"? That's a fancy name for a fee, from what I've heard. Whatever it was, how'd your father-in-law do with his treatment?

I'm afraid that fact about the wealthy in China getting treatment and the poor not being able to is likely to still be the case here, too, even if we get a new health care system. I'm afraid that's one of the unfair bottom-line inequities, and my gut tells me it won't change here, either. At least not in a lot of cases.

Sorry, it was $30K. I think they refered to it as something like a facilitating charge. The doc claimed it was needed to get everything, and everybody, scheduled and ready quickly. probably a bit of truth to it but I'm sure a huge portion went into the doc's pocket.

The problem with health care is that it all boils down to economics (supply and demand). The supply of doctors who can do something like delicate liver surgury or open heart surgury is not that large. Medicine and medical talent are a limited resource, like oil or a new iPOD. So, if you have twenty people needing a triple bypass and enough docs/facilities/etc to do 10 of them, how do you choose? Typically it comes down to who has the most money. Even in a country with socialized medicine, this is often still the case. Maybe not from a strict affordability of the service point of view, but a nice donation ;) always goes a long way in moving your name up on the schedule.

[Mark Bryan]

Yeah i'm schizo also, and bipolar w/ psychotic features. But after being sent away to JDC and the mental hospital I was court ordered to be on meds and Ive taken them since. I havent had a problem since.
Reb,I had NO IDEA you were shizo or bipolar! Does the cannabis help you any? If not,of course follow the doc's recommendations! You seem like such a cool girl online,I wouldn't have guessed any of this! I'm sorry 'bout what's happened to you. I hope things improve! I agree on your views on socialized medicine! That should be left to the DOCTORS,not the Feds! Take care girl!

[rebgirl420]

Yeah it helps and of course you cant tell, im on meds haha. And dont be sorry, I made my mistakes and I deserved the consequences. It's no biggie but thanks for your kind words!

[fishman3811]

Rebgirl i hope you have a very happy and long life....peace

[rebgirl420]

Thanks hun

[medicinal]

and 2 1/2 just to get a deviated septim in my nose fixed (simple day surgery).

I believe those injuries are 90% self inflicted and maybe should be self financed also!

[Mark Bryan]

Yeah it helps and of course you cant tell, im on meds haha. And dont be sorry, I made my mistakes and I deserved the consequences. It's no biggie but thanks for your kind words!

Hey ANYTIME! You sound mighty HUMBLE! I like that!