Debate: Dilution vs. Substitution

[boogey]

Okay, so I've been reading everything like mad on the forum. Marvelous work everyone, and much appreciated by this girl!

I notice that there seem to be two camps here: The Diluters and The Substituters. I've seen some pretty heated debates from these two sides.

As I've mentioned in a few other threads, I quit a couple of weeks ago in order to ensure I pass a test in August. That gives me between 3 and 4 months of clean (and boring) living. My plan is to dilute a little just to be on the safe side.

But, man, it sucks. I wanted to open up this thread so that the two camps could try to convince me to join their side. I'm not sure if i'm brave enough to try substitution... I would totally DIE if I got caught. But then again, it sure would be nice to keep smoking through the summer.

So, let the debate begin...

[evertking]

Well, you will be good and clean by then.. and no need to dilute!! hell if i were you i would smoke one today... but, hey, thats me.
I have tried subing and was nervous as hell.. walking all funny with a condom nestled in my jewels.. emptied my pockets and went in the john..slid out the nail file i broke off my clipers and stuck it in my tightie whities.. and started shanking at the codom like an inmate going after a pack of smokes... i got just enough in the cup and plenty on the floor, my shoes, and hands... after that.. well i will go two weeks without smoking and dilute!! :stoned:

[dawninthemorning]

I subbed just last Friday, and I feel so much better knowing that I have a completely clean sample. Being a woman, I just wear a baggy shirt and I put it in my bra (under my boob). One that that I noticed, is that I try to keep the temp close to 100 (I use quick fix so it has the temp strip right on it), because when I pour it into the speciman cup it only reads 94-96. This is acceptable, but my concern for people that don't know this and follow the directions and only get the temp up to maybe 94, the temp on the speciman cup is going to register in an unacceptable range.

I wouldn't worry about diluting either. buy a home test before your test and check yourself. if you come up clean, i would feel comftorable if testing without diluting.

good luck

[boogey]

Yeah, I may just have to smoke a little this weekend. Hell, I figure three months is safe, especially given the success people on this site seem to be reporting with dilution after only a couple of sober weeks.

[happiestmferoutthere]

Hell, after 3 months your pee will be so clean I might be hitting u up for a sub! lol:thumbsup:

[boogey]

Hey Happiest. It's great to meet another tokin' chick. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the dudes, but I'm glad there are other chronic babes out there too.

[happiestmferoutthere]

:thumbsup:

[winston3338]

Just to chime in on this debate with My untested plan.....

Urine Test = substitute

Hair Test = Bleach My hair twice and color it.

I live in Las Vegas and all the big casinos hair test and I would like to see more debates on hair test tips.

JMHO....JM

[Dizzy1]

This is how it went down for me...

I read and read and read (here) about both options, decided I didn't have to quit because I have a good friend on call who would supply some clean wee.
Got a very nice job offer and was told I needed to go do the UA. No worries, call my friend and met him at his shop...
"Sorry bro", he told me after handing over a very small sample in the travel shampoo bottle I gave him.
Well hell's bells. I took what he had and went through the thought out motions to keep the sample at temp. I'm a commando kinda guy mind you so I had to improvise a way to keep the bottle secured between the legs. I did this with an ace bandage configured in such a way that I truely believe I could have been passed off as a skinny sumo wrestler... not a pretty picture and really not that comfortable OR all that secure. I had also used a store bought heating pad meant for muscle soreness (said it got to 104 degrees or something) and wrapped it around the bottle and then crotched it for the ride to the UA testing center. When I arrived I pulled up close to the front door and started to get out of the truck... well... if you aren't real used to walking with a half assed wrapped up bottle of someone elses urine wedged between your legs, you miiight feel out of your walking element, I.E. you will walk funny! I kept thinking to myself that I must look like a 40 year old nun shuffling across the court yard. Speaking of a nun, I was praying the damn bottle didn't drop down my freakin pant leg.. how would I explain that? "That's where I left it!!"..
I manage to shuffle in without dropping a urine bomb and sign the sheet to be seen, then made my way to sit down... if I didn't feel funny trying walk, trying to be smooth while sitting down changed that... thank god the bottle didn't tip up on the way down. "OH!!!... MY BACK!". As I was sitting there I noticed that the extra package I was carrying didn't feel all that warm, but I just knew that it was all going to pay off in the end...
"Dizzy?"
yes
"Though the door, station three".
shuffle shuffle shuffle
Did the paperwork, emptied my pockets (and yes I was sweating bullets) and was told to go in the bathroom with the cup and do the deed.
I wrestled the bottle from my Sumo diaper and quickly took the temp with the new baby thermometer I bought that morning... BEEP doh... and then the temp... 94 degrees... I waited to see if the temp went higher... BEEP BEEP BEEP went the thermometer, signaling that the temp was as high as it was going to go... 92 degrees. DOH..
"Dizzy, you have 30 seconds"... DOH!
I quickly tried to wrap the cup with the heating bandage, not thinking that with a wide open cup, nothing but an open flame could could actually warm it up... So I suited back up and came out the door to present my prize. A 90 degree cup of urine that didn't quite reach the fill line they requested I fill it to.
"Hmm"
What?
"It's not a temp"
What's that mean? (and how the hell do you know just by looking at the.. is that a temp strip on the cup?? shit)
"Did you set the cup on the floor?"
No
So her co-worker in the next booth pipes up.
"He's going to have to resubmit under observation"
"Sir, I guess you need to provide another sample"
You saw I couldn't even make the line, I don't have anymore to give"
"We'll provide water"
I have a conference I need to be to in 20 minutes and I didn't think this would take that long.
Co-worker "So your refusing to submit a sample"
No! I blah blah blah blah.
"Your refusing"
I'll just call the company I'm applying for, explain the situation and will come back tomorrow.

So I left.
I called the company, explained the "situation" and was told in a somewhat sarcastic voice that I NEED to provide a clean sample because they are under Federal laws which require blah blah blah and I need to get it taken care of SOON.
No worries!
Now here I am, stressed out to the max about the next day and what was I going to do. I decided I needed to try dilution!

I went straight from the UA clinic to the store to stock up on Creatine, B vitamins and energy drinks. I got home and proceeded to get my guts and nerves destroyed. Between the mega doses of creatine and B vitamins I managed to get the runs like NO ones business and the shakes from the B12's... But I carried on, determined to land this killer job!...
/runs to the bathroom
The next day arrived and I went through the same motions as the previous night, Creatine, B12, water, energy drinks... running to the bathroom. I had picked up a pee test from the store and it said there was nothing in my urine, so I went back to the UA clinic.
I arrived with a bladder that was so full that my kidneys started to hurt very badly and I got the news that the fax from the company hadn't arrived yet so I would have to wait... and wait... 45 minutes passed and I thought I would have to pass, I was in agony. I had to run through the strip mall the clinic was in to use a bathroom, I couldn't take it anymore... No sooner than I walk through the door. "There you are! your fax came in"... aww damnit..
"Station 2"
ooook
Luckily my body was drenched inside and ready to pee again.
So I repeat the bathroom cycle using my own wee. First part of stream in the toilet, middle in cup, rest in the toi...
"Dizzy?"
Uhh, yea
"You need to come out here"
I come out to hear that since the request form was faxed in, that they would need to watch me pee. I was told this as I handed over my cup.
Well come on in, I still got some! So I pee again!.. while home-slice intently watched the action... I hate that, but what the hell, glad I wasn't subbing!
So we finished up the paperwork and I left the building wondering how the sample would turn out. Would it be clean? Would some THC make it in the cup since I couldn't use the middle of the pee session to fill the cup? Would it be a negative dilute? And if it was diluted, how would the company take it???

3 days later, on Monday, I called and called to try to reach someone at the company... no one returned my calls. I went to the UA clinic to get a copy of the results... Negative-Diluted).. shit. Then I got in touch with the company who proceeded to accuse me of playing games (which made me feel like complete shit, I'm actually a decent person) and they pulled the job offer... I was devastated.

Fast forward 1 week and another job offer and another UA appt.
I'm going to sub and make it perfect... and I did.

I bought a smaller bottle with the intention of having it filled since I estimated that a bigger bottle and less wee would cool off a lot faster.
I bought actual underwear! Two pairs that were a little too small so the bottle would surely be secured.
I bought real hand and foot warmers, same idea as the thermal pads, but these babies get up to 140+ degrees and they were a 1/4 of the price of the thermal pad, I bought 4 packages so I could test out the operation and get it right.
I also bought a non BEEPing thermometer, get them at a pet store in the fish section. Don't bother looking at the temp strip types, they don't even get to 100 degrees, I think they might even max at 90.

I spent the whole night working out the details. Testing how quick the pads work, how long it takes to heat a luke warm sample, how long the heat stays in with one heating pad, 2 pads, etc etc.

How it went down.
I woke in the morning, immediately opened 2 packs of heating pads.
( They take 2 hours to reach a good heat level that you can work with, 3 hours will make them pretty freaking hot, but still manageable and I would recommend waiting at LEAST 2-1/2 hours before you make the journey to get tested)
I took the donated urine from the fridge and wrapped it in a sock with the heating pads and tested every half hour for it to get to temp.
Once it reached 96 degrees I headed towards the UA clinic and parked out of site while I kept testing the sample until it reached 105 degrees, a temp I was comfortable with to head inside. I also rolled one of the pads in my sock in case I needed the extra heat from having to wait or whatnot.
I indeed had to wait to be seen but also noticed that both the pads were gettingwarm. I finally got my turn in the latrine, and like a pro, I went to work with extreme confidence.
Pulled out the bottle, temp tested, 109 degrees, poured sample in cup, temp tested, 105 degrees, swished cup around and blew over the cup (deffinetly not hot coffee!) watched the temp strip, 97 degrees, dammit, packed both pads on the cup since I want it perfect, cup reached 100 and I packed up the supplies and headed out.

The rest went down without a hitch and I was called 2 days later and told to come into work. :thumbsup:

After all of this shit, what would I recommend?
Subbing.
Do what is preached in the stickies, PRACTICE THAT SHIT! Perfect it, own the procedure! Write down notes of temps, experiment. Practice with water and learn.

Other things to know, don't let the company fax over the request, pick that crap up in person to make sure you won't be watched.

Good luck and happy smoking. :)

[happiestmferoutthere]

OMG, Dizzy! That is indeed a fucking subbing nightmare! A beeping thermometer! I'm sorry, but...:giggity:

Glad the second one went better!:thumbsup: I also subbed and am damn glad I did! Theres no way I would have passed on my own! The information on this board is priceless. It really is!

[TitusCicero]

Dizzy that is one funny story you told and had me laughing out loud. Though I am sorry about your first misfortune.

Personaly I have had luck with the dilution method twice. I am awaiting my third dilution test now and as usual am nervous as anything! I used Ready Clean this time and the last two times I passed. Figure stick with what works. I know the Ready Clean doesn't mask the THC it just masks the dilution which is fine by me if I get a negative without a dilute.

In retrospect and after reading this board through I think I will use the quickfix sub method next time because it seems it has less risk if you do it right. Probably dilute and try to sub just in case they try and watch me. But atlas I hadn't the time to get the quickfix for this test. :(

[jeffman]

Congrats....:thumbsup:

[CannabisCarl2134]

QF (Quick Fix) FTFW!! I just had a Drug test today, and once I had found the place I sat in my car, put the heat pack with rubber-band around the "Specimen Container,QF", turned the car heater on full blast, set the bottle on the defrost for about 5 sconds, and Viola instantly at 100 degrees Fahrenheit.

So I walked into the building waited until they called me back, and when I got back there they made me do the usual, and made me empty my pockets. I walked in the bathroom Pulled out the QF and emptied it into their container, and once I did that I saw that there Temp reading said 94f !! I thought I was Facked!, because I am an idiot and took the heat pack off........I got Mcguyver on them though, and cupped my hands around it and started blowing hot air into the cup..LMAO Well it worked and got it around 97-98 and gave it to her, she checked me off and I was gone! I am pretty sure it worked and being my first time using it I must say its the best, and far FAR better than any of the Diluting Drinks, that make you Toilet Stationery for about 6 days...

I have done the drinks several times in the past, and now I will never do them again Thanks to QF lol.