Murtha Talks Impeachment

[fishman3811]

By DAVE Lindorf Impeachment is moving inexorably into the mainstream.

On Saturday, April 28, people across the nation rallied to spell out the word "Impeach" with their bodies, from coast to coast. Most of their efforts went unreported in the nation's complicit, propaganda-organ-like corporate media, but the effects of the effort were still felt.

Earlier in the week, the Democratic Party convention in California (the largest state Democratic party organization in the nation) voted overwhelmingly to call for the impeachment of Bush and Cheney. Also that week, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), filed a bill of impeachment against Vice President Dick Cheney.

A day after the national demonstrations, Rep. John Murtha (D-PA), speaking on the CBS News program Face the Nation, told host Bob Schieffer that impeachment is "one of the ways Congress has to influence the president."

The comment so shocked Schieffer, that he immediately homed in on it asking, "Are you seriously talking about contemplating an impeachment of this president?"

Murtha did not back off, and responded, "I'm just saying that's one way to influence the president."

As Bob Fertik, a leader of the national impeachment movement, observes, "It is no accident that Murtha used the `I' word: he wanted to send a shot across Bush's bow that he'd better start negotiating (on Iraq troop funding) * or else." Fertik adds, "And Murtha must have cleared his comments with Speaker (Nancy) Pelosi before his appearance, so one can safely conclude that impeachment is back "on the table" where it belongs.

For too long, Congressional Democratic leaders have been blocking impeachment, beginning with Pelosi's pre-election vow that if Democrats took control of Congress impeachment would be "off the table." The public explanations for this position have never made any sense, and indeed have been specious: the claim that impeaching Bush would mean Cheney would become president is ludicrous (what Republican would want to have the monumentally unpopular Cheney at the head of the GOP heading into the 2008 elections?); the claim that Democrats had an important agenda of bills to pass is preposterous, given their slim margins of control in both houses, the promise of presidential vetoes, and the president's hyperactive use of "signing statements" to illegally kill laws enacted by Congress; and the claim that impeachment would be "divisive" is bogus, because it is the administration and the Republicans in Congress who have been divisive for the past six years.

In fact, the real reason the Democratic leadership has been running from impeachment is that party leaders think they are better off letting this increasingly unpopular administration continue to foul up domestically and especially in Iraq. Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-IL), actually at one point publicly stated that it would be "good" for Democrats if the Iraq War continued into November 2008. This heartless Machiavellian thinking may or may not be strategically valid (I suspect it's not correct), but it is certainly a betrayal of the American people who voted Democrats into control last November, and is certainly a betrayal of the troops who are fighting and dying in Iraq every day.

It appears, from Murtha's comment about impeachment, that leading Democrats in Congress are starting to realize that the public is way ahead of them, and is growing frustrated and angry at Democratic pussyfooting.

Americans don't want symbolic action by Democrats on ending the war. They want the troops brought home--now. They don't want tangential investigations by Congress into the political firing of federal prosecutors, or into the faked documents alleging that Iraq was buying uranium ore from Niger, They want impeachment bills against President Bush, and the convening of impeachment hearings in the House Judiciary Committee to defend a Constitution that has been vitiated by six years of Bush administration crimes, abuses of power and blatant undermining of the Bill of Rights.

Rep. Murtha should be swamped with emails and calls congratulating him for recognizing this, and for putting impeachment back on the agenda (call 202-25-2065).

The impeachment movement, which is just getting going, needs to keep the pressure on Congress and the media.

[Psycho4Bud]

Murtha is so far left Pelosi couldn't even get him nominated by his own party as their leader in Congress.............LOL

Have a good one!:s4:

[fishman3811]

Yeah but its not only Murtha its the American people who want this and last time i checked you guys where suppose to be a free country.

[Psycho4Bud]

Yeah but its not only Murtha its the American people who want this and last time i checked you guys where suppose to be a free country.
The people want what? Impeachment hearings? Since when did the majority say that? A change of a few seats in Congress and Senate doesn't state all that.

Have a good one!:s4:

[fishman3811]

Whats bushes approval rating 30% whats cheneys 18% yep sounds like they have the popular support.

[medicinal]

P4B,I believe I saw a CNN poll today that said 61% of the people polled agreed with the democratic bill sent to the Prez. 28% agreeed with the Prez and 11% wanted to pull out now, count me in the 11%, but I think this disagrees with your previous polling.

[fishman3811]

So 61% of the people want the troops home by next year.The people have spoken

[Psycho4Bud]

According to a recent USA Today/Gallup poll, 61% of Americans oppose â??denying the funding needed to send any additional U.S. troops to Iraq,â?� and opposition is up from 58% in February. (3/23-25, 2007).

A Bloomberg poll reveals 61% of Americans believe withholding funding for the war is a bad idea, while only 28% believe it is a good idea (3/3-11, 2007).

A recent Public Opinion Strategies (POS) poll found that 56% of registered voters favor fully funding the war in Iraq, with more voters strongly favoring funding (40%) than totally opposing it (38%); (3/25-27, 2007).

POS found also that a majority of voters (54%) oppose the Democrats imposing a reduction in troops below the level military commanders requested (3/25-27, 2007).

A separate POS poll finds 57% of voters support staying in Iraq until the job is finished and â??the Iraqi government can maintain control and provide security for its people.â?� And 59% of voters say pulling out of Iraq immediately would do more to harm Americaâ??s reputation in the world than staying until order is restored (35%); (2/5-7, 2007).

A Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll show 69% of American voters trust military commanders more than members of Congress (18%) to decide when United States troops should leave Iraq. This includes 52% of Democrats, 69% of Independents and 88% of Republicans (3/27-28, 2007).

According to a recent Pew Research survey, only 17% of Americans want an immediate withdrawal of troops (4/18-22, 2007). That same poll found a plurality of adults (45%) believe a terrorist attack against the United States is more likely if we withdraw our troops from Iraq while the â??country remains unstableâ?�
Should a date for withdrawal be set, 70% of American believe it is likely that â??insurgents will increase their attacks in Iraqâ?� starting on that day. This is supported by 85% of Republicans, 71% of Independents and 60% of Democrats. (FOX News/Opinion Dynamics, 4/17-18, 2007).

An LA Times/Bloomberg polls reveals that 50% of Americans say setting a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq â??hurtsâ?� the troops, while only 27% believe it â??helpsâ?� the troops (4/5-9, 2007).

THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[medicinal]

THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!
So you are discounting the CNN poll, figures. Seems like even the Polls are just a political hack at Democracy. If you believed all the polls, you'd think things were peachy in Iraq and the Iraqis just love us being there, and would really hate to see us leave. Then, you see on TV 100,000 Iraqis in the streets screaming "Yankee Go Home". But yeah, we should just believe the Polls. The Polls are Bullshit. You pick a demographic and then poll it to get the results you want. Go to a Base in Iraq and have a secret ballot on staying or going and I'll wager a years pay you'd have an overwhelming majority say get the fuck out. So go on with your polls, they are pure smoke and mirrors.

[Psycho4Bud]

THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!
So you are discounting the CNN poll, figures.

It would be nice to see the actual poll instead of "I believe I saw a CNN poll".

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

It would be nice to see the actual poll instead of "I believe I saw a CNN poll".

Have a good one!:s4:

I don't know how to tivo a news poll to this site, but I saw it on wolf blitzers show yesterday. I'll go to CNN.com and see if it's still there.

[medicinal]

Can't find the previous one and can't get the current one to upload but if you go to CNN.com they have a poll that says the impasse over the funding bill is 69% Bushs' fault, 31% congressional democrats fault, about the same as Bushs' popularity #s and that only means that 30% of the population is fucking insane. I hold no sway with polls, but I know that anyone that stands behind Bush at this time, must have a few mental problems.

[Psycho4Bud]

Looking for the poll but stumbled on this VERY nice article:

(CNN) -- Pulling U.S. forces from Iraq could trigger catastrophe, CNN analysts and other observers warn, affecting not just Iraq but its neighbors in the Middle East, with far-reaching global implications.

Sectarian violence could erupt on a scale never seen before in Iraq if coalition troops leave before Iraq's security forces are ready. Supporters of al Qaeda could develop an international hub of terror from which to threaten the West. And the likely civil war could draw countries like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran into a broader conflict.

President Bush vetoed a war spending bill Tuesday precisely because the Democrat-led Congress required the first U.S. combat troops to be withdrawn by October 1 with a goal of a complete pullout six months later.

Bush said such a deadline would be irresponsible and both sides are now working on new proposals -- which may have no pullout dates.

A rapid withdrawal of all U.S. troops would hurt America's image and hand al Qaeda and other terror groups a propaganda victory that the United States is only a "paper tiger," CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen said.

"It would also play into their strategy, which is to create a mini-state somewhere in the Middle East where they can reorganize along the lines of what they did in Afghanistan in the late '90s," Bergen told CNN.com.

It was in Afghanistan where Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda allied with the Taliban, and were allowed to run terror bases and plan the September 11, 2001 attacks against the United States.

Bergen says it is imperative that the United States not let that happen in Iraq.
No safe way for U.S. to leave Iraq, experts warn - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/02/iraq.scenarios/index.html)

Have a good one!:s4:

[eg420ne]

Looking for the poll but stumbled on this VERY nice article:

(CNN)

It was in Afghanistan where Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda allied with the Taliban, and were allowed to run terror bases and plan the September 11, 2001 attacks against the United States.

Bergen says it is imperative that the United States not let that happen in Iraq.
No safe way for U.S. to leave Iraq, experts warn - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/02/iraq.scenarios/index.html)

Have a good one!:s4:HuH :wtf: thats there story and they stickin 2 it
Bergen is evvvvvvilllllll

[medicinal]

So are you saying this will be the longest deployment of US troops in modern history, maybe history period? That's absolutely insane. It will kill thousands more americans, Hundreds of thousands of the "enemy" and firmly Bankrupt this nation. Utter gobblygook! not to mention stirring up thousands of more terrorists. I wonder what geniouses thought this up. Must have something to do with war profiteering. Here's the truth: get our interests out of the middle east and the threats will go away. Those ragheads have to sell the oil to someone, like the highest bidder. At the prices we are paying that has to be us. Why am I the only one that sees this clearly. Leave the middle east and the al queda threats will be taken care of by the Iraqis them selves. Hasn't that been shown recently? These are the ramblings of neocons like Richard Perle, who think the only good Arabs are dead ones. BTW, you saw the poll I assume!

[fishman3811]

The neocons wont pull out because Iran will take over southern Iraq making them even more powerfull than before with alot more oil.Its actualy pretty funny how these idiot neocons fucked things up soo bad for themselves and GAVE Iran more oil more power and the idiot neocons are still in power.What does it take for Americans to say"fuck these guys are dumb look at the mess they created".I dont think Americans realize that other countries leaders are laughing at their stupid leaders.

[Zohar]

I for one, don't care for Bush, but impeaching him is just absurd. Impeach him for what, on what grounds? That he's unpopular? Personally, I'm glad that our government will most likely not allow him to be impeached...it's just stupid. All this is turning into is a bunch of whiney democrats who act like their tough, claiming they speak for us, but what they are really doing is proving they are so disconnected from reality.

I saw a surprising story on CNN last night, they were actually speaking FOR staying in Iraq...even CNN (even if it was just one story) is starting to come around. Give it up already, we all hate this conflict but most of the American people (and these beloved polls show it) are mature enough to relize you can't just run away from your problems. We got into this mess and we have to get out of it, we can either cut and run or stick it out and clean the mess we made.

[Psycho4Bud]

I for one, don't care for Bush, but impeaching him is just absurd. Impeach him for what, on what grounds? That he's unpopular? Personally, I'm glad that our government will most likely not allow him to be impeached...it's just stupid. All this is turning into is a bunch of whiney democrats who act like their tough, claiming they speak for us, but what they are really doing is proving they are so disconnected from reality.

I saw a surprising story on CNN last night, they were actually speaking FOR staying in Iraq...even CNN (even if it was just one story) is starting to come around. Give it up already, we all hate this conflict but most of the American people (and these beloved polls show it) are mature enough to relize you can't just run away from your problems. We got into this mess and we have to get out of it, we can either cut and run or stick it out and clean the mess we made.

The voice of reason! Rep points heading your way soon!:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

[eg420ne]

I for one, don't care for Bush, but impeaching him is just absurd. Impeach him for what, on what grounds? That he's unpopular? Personally, I'm glad that our government will most likely not allow him to be impeached...it's just stupid. All this is turning into is a bunch of whiney democrats who act like their tough, claiming they speak for us, but what they are really doing is proving they are so disconnected from reality.

I saw a surprising story on CNN last night, they were actually speaking FOR staying in Iraq...even CNN (even if it was just one story) is starting to come around. Give it up already, we all hate this conflict but most of the American people (and these beloved polls show it) are mature enough to relize you can't just run away from your problems. We got into this mess and we have to get out of it, we can either cut and run or stick it out and clean the mess we made.
OMJ... dude lied the U.S.A into an ill fated war...he hindered any investigation into 911, b4 911 he had the FBI stopped from hunting ALquida, and uncle USAma....goddamn you can go on on on on on on on on on on...

[eg420ne]

The voice of reason! Rep points heading your way soon!:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4::asskick:
Have a thoughtful one:hippy:

[medicinal]

I for one, don't care for Bush, but impeaching him is just absurd. Impeach him for what, on what grounds? That he's unpopular? Personally, I'm glad that our government will most likely not allow him to be impeached...it's just stupid. All this is turning into is a bunch of whiney democrats who act like their tough, claiming they speak for us, but what they are really doing is proving they are so disconnected from reality.

I saw a surprising story on CNN last night, they were actually speaking FOR staying in Iraq...even CNN (even if it was just one story) is starting to come around. Give it up already, we all hate this conflict but most of the American people (and these beloved polls show it) are mature enough to relize you can't just run away from your problems. We got into this mess and we have to get out of it, we can either cut and run or stick it out and clean the mess we made.

I hope you're talkin from war experience and not out your ass. If you want to stay the fuckin course, saddle up, grab an M-16 and head on out. your services will be greatly appreciated. If you're talkin out your ass like most of the warmongers, then shut the fuck up. Untill you've had incoming headed your way, quit trying to push your crazy ideas off on the brave men and women that have it coming at them right now. Nothing like a pussie talkin how we should stay the course. The people that started this war never saw a minute of combat, pussies all!

[andruejaysin]

We got into this mess and we have to get out of it, we can either cut and run or stick it out and clean the mess we made.Or we can stay ten years, make the mess worse, then cut and run. It's over, we lost. All that's left is the loss of a few thousand more american lives.

[fishman3811]

Impeach bush for lying to the American public.Impeach bush for attacking a country that never attacked America.Impeach bush for torture of prisoners.Impeach bush for lying to congress on the reasons to attack Iraq.Impeach bush for outing a CIA operative.