Westboro Baptist Church Strikes Again! VA Tech Funeral Is New Target.

[GreenLadyOfDankDowns]

This time the church, headed by the notorious Reverend Phelps, plans to picket the funeral of a VA Tech massacre victim.

Hate Group To Protest At Student's Funeral - April 20, 2007 (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0420071ghf1.html)

Hate Group To Protest At Student's Funeral
Rites for Virginia Tech victim targeted by "God Hates Fags" followers
APRIL 20--The reactionary religious group that has staged protests at funerals for soldiers killed in Iraq plans to picket at tomorrow's funeral for one of the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre. The Westboro Baptist Church--which operates the godhatesfags.com web site--announced its plans to protest at student Ryan Clark's funeral in a press release (a copy of which you'll find below). Clark, 22, was a biology and English major who reportedly was trying to shield others when he was shot Monday by Seung-Hui Cho. Clark's funeral is scheduled for tomorrow morning in Evans, Georgia. The Westboro organization has protested at the funerals of soldiers because they claim that God is punishing America for "her sodomite sins" and the persecution of Westboro "for warning America of her doom."


Trying to figure out the thought process of this group's members makes my head want to implode.

[RedLocks]

senseless, all I can say

[Kid Dynamite]

That makes me fucking sick...i mean seriously. With all the shit thats going down in the world today...

torture
war
genocide
pollution

and these nutjobs think we're all going to hell just because of GAY people getting married??? Ridiculous...

[Ready to Rally]

Fag or No Fag; This young man was seen "shielding" his fellow brother and sisters of America from harm and it COSTS him his Young Life. He is a Hero and If I personally was attending the young mans funeral and/or was a family member or close friend these F@cknuggets would receive the beating of their lifetime and would not attend any funerals any time soon. Wake the F@ck up people. We must unite and end the hate we are becoming a Nuisance to every major country and breeding homegrown terror and hate. Black,White,Yellow,Brown,Red it doesnt F@ckin' matter when Red blood and mutilated bodies are found, they're the same. If good Men and Women do Nothing, Evil will win.
God Bless this young man and every other loving being that gives their OWN LIFE so that another may Live. I have Undying Respect and Gratitude for our Heroes. Please beat the crap out of them assholes at Westboro. That young man should have every PHYSICALLY able person at his funeral ready and willing to protect(by any means necessary) the sanctity and dignity of a PROPER BURIAL for a HERO of his caliber.

[HazmatTHC]

Some people in the world will do great things, and should be honoured, others are here because its illegal to kill them. I for one would and WILL honour whoever fires the first slug of lead through Reverend Phelps skull.

[GreenLadyOfDankDowns]

Whatever happened to the churches that promoted "God is Love" as a philosophy? HazmatTHC, from what I hear Phelps isn't seen in public very often. He just sends out his brainwashed foot soldiers to do his hate-mongering.

[Oneironaut]

Well, there are lots of ways to interpret the Bible, since it contradicts itself so much. Some people ignore the bit where Jesus says to love your neighbor and don't ignore the bit where it says gays are an abomination unto God, whereas most Christians will ignore the second but not the first.

In religion, faith is touted as a virtue, and when you aren't held responsible for upholding your beliefs with evidence and good argumentation, you make the perfect environment for these kinds of people to spew hate, since they don't even have to try to justify it. They just search through the scriptures, find a few passages that agree with their prejudices, and then it's the Absolute Eternal Truth for them. And it's not just Fred Phelps; it happens all over the place, although usually not to that kind of extreme level, throughout pretty much all dogmatic factions of people with a common "faith" in some ideology.

We should eschew this idea of faith, and hold everybody responsible for justifying what they believe with evidence and logic. If you can't justify what you believe, question it. Only by making people question their irrational prejudices do we have any hope of destroying them, and as long as we accept faith as a blanket to hide behind when you can't justify what you believe, people are going to use it to justify their hatred and prejudice.

[longgonetx]

westboro is a really sad example of christian ignorance and intolerance. my personal belief is that jesus is my friend. it is easy for me to accept other peoples beliefs and to see other purported christians behave in such an unfriendly and vile manner is shameful

[Antihero867]

Wow. Its not the Gays that are goin to hell. Its those dousch bags. God is all about love. So what if you enjoy the company of the same sex. We have free will. I dont think that god would send someone to hell because of their sexual prefrence. Everyone is different. Thats whats so beuatful about this world. If everyone was just like those baptist then whats the fun in that. Its the people who hate who go to hell.

Its really saddens me when the christian community ends up being one of the most hated Religons because of ass holes like that. Christianty is about loving thy neighbor. It is a religon based on love not hate. Jesus never preached about hatred. Neither did any of the prophits in the bible. When are these people gonna grow up and accept things for what they are?

It is when you accept things for what they are. And love this world and everything about it that you will find happiness. Dont try to change someone because of their sexual prefrance. That is what they want. Its their lives and no one elses. So who are we to tell them thats its wrong.

:hippy:

[smoke it]

some people just need to be killed. i know america gives us the right to our own opinion, and you have the freedom to have some fucked up morals, but this crosses that line and is still moving farther away from it. disgusting is all i can say. i dont think theres a word bad enough for the actions of these people.

[couch-potato]

Protesting a funeral... of somebody who literally sacrificed himself for the safety of others?

FUCK YOU.
ASSHOLES.

[afghooey]

Lotta hate going on in this thread... not just from the hate group, either. Kinda ironic. I somehow think that people do this kind of shit just to get reactions like that. They get their rocks off knowing that they're rubbing people the wrong way. I say don't give them the pleasure.

They don't even deserve a 'fuck you'.

[Oneironaut]

Wow. Its not the Gays that are goin to hell. Its those dousch bags.
I personally don't think anybody deserves to go to Hell, that is, everlasting torment. Even Adolf Hitler only committed a finite amount of wrongdoing in his time on earth, so his punishment should logically be finite as well. It is impossible to commit an infinite amount of evil in a finite lifetime, so how come we get punished infinitely for a finite amount of evil? That doesn't seem fair at all. Infinite torture is the most hateful, evil thing anyone can possibly do, so if your God set up a universe with this kind of infinite torture system, then he must be a hateful, evil God.

God is all about love. So what if you enjoy the company of the same sex. We have free will. I dont think that god would send someone to hell because of their sexual prefrence. Everyone is different. Thats whats so beuatful about this world. If everyone was just like those baptist then whats the fun in that. Its the people who hate who go to hell.
Well, there are numerous passages in the Bible which clearly condemn male homosexual behavior as sinful. If you're going to call yourself a Christian, you need to find some reason to ignore those verses but accept other verses, which means you need some criteria for distinguishing the disgusting bullcrap from the good stuff. What are those criteria? Do you really think your own personal moral intuition is superior to what's written in what you consider God's holy book?

Its really saddens me when the christian community ends up being one of the most hated Religons because of ass holes like that. Christianty is about loving thy neighbor. It is a religon based on love not hate. Jesus never preached about hatred.
Not according to my Bible.

Luke 14:26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Those are the direct words of Jesus, promoting hatred.

Neither did any of the prophits in the bible.
Might I remind you that it one of the laws of the prophet Moses was to stone homosexual males to death?

When are these people gonna grow up and accept things for what they are?
When are Christians going to grow up and face the barbarism promoted by the Bible? When are they going to stop publishing this hate-filled bullshit and distributing it to their children? It is not okay to give kids books that say gay men should be stoned to death and tell them it's a divine, sacred document that should form the basis of their morality.

Moderate Christians are still guilty of providing an environment within which this kind of hate-centered fundamentalism can thrive. Yeah, you ignore those bits of the Old Testament which promote killing gays and adulterers, but you continue to publish that stuff in a book that you label as sacred, so is it any surprise that a significant percentage of the American population believes these things to be literally true? After all, there is no objective reason to reject Leviticus 20 (stone the gays) but praise Exodus 20 (the Ten Commandments).

Honestly, I don't understand how Christians can love the Ten Commandments and really take it to heart, and then completely reject the VERY NEXT CHAPTER (Exodus 21) where God says it's okay to sell your daughter into slavery. This is the same God, right? How can he be right one moment when he condemns killing and stealing and graven images and coveting your neighbor's wife's ass, but completely wrong the next minute when he says slavery is okay? How can you say your morality is superior to your God's? Either reject the whole Old Testament including the Ten Commandments, or embrace it. There is no reason to take Exodus 20 seriously but not Exodus 21.

If there's anything to admire about these guys, at least they're being intellectually honest. They're saying "Okay, we have this holy book, and we believe its contents to be divinely inspired. We can't honestly accept the parts we like and reject the parts we don't like. This is God, and his judgment is superior to anything we humans can come up with, so we should follow his word. He clearly states that homosexual males are an abomination and that they are deserving of death, so we are going to promote this holy idea." As horrible as its consequences are, I can respect that logic a lot more than I can respect the logic of these cherry-picking Christians who just ignore the crap that is clearly barbaric nonsense while looking only for the parts that give good advice.

[afghooey]

Wheat and chaff, man. I guess I don't officially consider myself Christian (why get tied up with unneccessary religious affiliations?). But I still selectively take bits and pieces from the bible, because there are stories and lessons that appeal to me. Also, a lot of the wheat appears as chaff if you take it too literally. Take that quote you pulled from Luke:

Luke 14:26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Does that sound like an order from Jesus to go hating everyone? To me it sounds like a statement that in order to become a deciple, you must already be in the state of mind of hating your life and that of those around you. Maybe the word 'hate' here isn't even being used in the same context as we might assume. Maybe it's not meant to be taken so literally. I'm not going to presume to know exactly what the J-man was talking about, but I somehow think there was probably more to what he was saying than, "Hate everyone or you can't become Christian."

Yeah, there is a lot of bullshit in the bible, especially in the old testament, that I'm not even going to try to justify as a good source of spiritual guidance. But would you burn down an entire library just because most of the books there are crap? There's good stuff, too. You just have to search for it.

[Oneironaut]

Does that sound like an order from Jesus to go hating everyone? To me it sounds like a statement that in order to become a deciple, you must already be in the state of mind of hating your life and that of those around you. Maybe the word 'hate' here isn't even being used in the same context as we might assume. Maybe it's not meant to be taken so literally. I'm not going to presume to know exactly what the J-man was talking about, but I somehow think there was probably more to what he was saying than, "Hate everyone or you can't become Christian."
I've actually looked into this interesting verse before. It seems that "hate" is a pretty good translation for what the original Greek word meant. The meaning of the verse, it seems, is that the disciples must leave behind the love of their families to fully embrace their love of Jesus Christ. Much like modern cults, which urge members to leave their families who might try to persuade them into believing something else, Jesus did not want to compete with his disciples' families for their devotion and loyalty. This is also why Jesus urges his disciples not to marry or have children. He isn't literally urging people to feel hatred for their families, but rather to disregard their love for their families so they can put all their love into Jesus.

Yeah, there is a lot of bullshit in the bible, especially in the old testament, that I'm not even going to try to justify as a good source of spiritual guidance. But would you burn down an entire library just because most of the books there are crap? There's good stuff, too. You just have to search for it.
I'm not saying we should burn every Old Testament everywhere. It's an interesting document that provides a lot of insight into ancient Jewish mythology. I'm just saying that most of it is barbaric immoral bullcrap, and a responsible Christian would edit that shit out before giving it to their children. Believe me, I've sat down and forced myself to trudge through it. There are some good bits, sure, but there is so much crap that it's like trying to eat a sundae made out of dog shit with a cherry on top. I'm sure there are some good quotes in Hitler's Mein Kampf too.

The Old Testament God promotes homophobia, sexism, slavery, absolute monarchy, animal sacrifice, human sacrifice (yeah seriously, human fuckin' sacrifice (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/jg/11.html#29)), infanticide, killing adulterers, killing Sabbath-workers, killing rape victims who don't scream loud enough, killing women who aren't virgins on their wedding night, killing disobedient children, punishing people for the wrongdoings of their parents and ancestors, and lots of other crap that just has no place in modern society. If we're going to search ancient texts for moral inspiration, fuck the Old Testament. Let's use Socrates and Buddha and Lao Tzu; their ideas are much more sensible overall.

[Antihero867]

Oneironaut Did you not know that in the middle ages the roman cathloic church added alot of crap to the bible to make people live the way they thought people should. Homosexuality being one of them. If god is all loving then why would he cast out one group of people because of their sexual prefrence. Its sad to say but alot of passages in the bible you have to take with a grain of salt because their has been so much changed over time to make people, in their views "Morally Correct."


Luke 14:26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Jesus said their that anyone who is filled with hate cant be his disciple. He never preached of hatred of a certain group of people. Which is what many Baptist are doing today.

Just because they preach it doesnt mean its right. Christians preach that Weed is bad but here you are. On a cannabis forum.

[Oneironaut]

Oneironaut Did you not know that in the middle ages the roman cathloic church added alot of crap to the bible to make people live the way they thought people should. Homosexuality being one of them.
Uhh, sorry, you're just wrong on that one. The Old Testament had Leviticus 20 in it long before the middle ages; that's why it's still in the Jewish Bible too. If this were just a Catholic thing, how come Jews have the same verses in their Bibles? How come we have copies of Bibles that long predate the Middle Ages with that in it?

If god is all loving then why would he cast out one group of people because of their sexual prefrence.
Where did you get the crazy idea that the God of the Bible is all-loving? In the Old Testament, he's always angry and vengeful and jealous, and in the New Testament, he's condemning people to eternal hellfire. That's not an all-loving God.

Its sad to say but alot of passages in the bible you have to take with a grain of salt because their has been so much changed over time to make people, in their views "Morally Correct."
Exactly. The Bible is a reflection of the morality of the humans who wrote it. God is an invention of theirs that they used to justify those beliefs.

Jesus said their that anyone who is filled with hate cant be his disciple.
Where? Luke 14:26 says pretty much the exact opposite of that.

He never preached of hatred of a certain group of people. Which is what many Baptist are doing today.

Just because they preach it doesnt mean its right. Christians preach that Weed is bad but here you are. On a cannabis forum.
I know it's not right. But if you believe the Bible is a holy book whose contents are "divinely inspired" (whatever that means), it makes sense to take the Bible at its word when it says we should stone homosexual men to death. If you're going to throw out the parts of the Bible that you don't like, and just agree with the things you already believe, what's the point of using the book at all? You seem to already have a perfectly good morality if you can see that stoning gay people is wrong and sacrificing animals is wrong, but being generous and loving is good. There are lots of philosophers with more well-defined and comprehensive moral philosophies than Jesus out there. Philosophers who also don't claim to be the son of God and don't condemn you to eternal hellfire if you don't beg them for forgiveness.

By the way, how come Jesus never said anything about tolerating homosexuals? He must have known that his followers would continue to persecute homosexuals for millennia to come, and one sentence could have stopped it all.

[smoke it]

i just sent them this e-mail. maybe it will do some good.

i would never join your establishment. what you do is disgusting. how dare you protest at the funerals of the men and women who gave you the right to protest. they died so you have the right to beleive in your god. your people shouldnt be allowed to breathe the same air as ANYONE with an ounce of respect for humanity.

and god hates fags? whats that? the "fags" have the right to choose their sexuality just as you have the right to choose to cause pain in the hearts of the families of the men and women who gave you the right to do so. the "fags" live their lives and no one elses.

i dont know what kind of god would permit the death of the innocent people he created. a sensible god would rid the world of the sinners who actually sin. your people protest at the VA Tech shooting funeral of Ryan Clark, a man who saved lives by sacrificing his own. you say that god killed him because of america's sins. what are your sins?

and last but not least, i feel the need to adress the children who you brainwash into your beleifs, as i feel only for them. not you, not your organization, and certainly not your god. ive seen pictures of your protests with children holding signs that say "god hates fags". you say the "fags" target children. in my eyes, you and your organization are the real predators. you beat the ideas of hate into the childrens minds before they can comprehend what the hate is.

if there is any type of sensible god, he will certainly send you and your followers to a place that is more horrible than any human mind can comprehend. please, i beg of you, write me back and try to explain yourselves to me, because no reply will mean to me that you have no sensible explanation and i am right.

With much hatred for your organization,
Zach

[Antihero867]

Uhh, sorry, you're just wrong on that one. The Old Testament had Leviticus 20 in it long before the middle ages; that's why it's still in the Jewish Bible too. If this were just a Catholic thing, how come Jews have the same verses in their Bibles? How come we have copies of Bibles that long predate the Middle Ages with that in it?

You got me on that one dude.


Where? Luke 14:26 says pretty much the exact opposite of that.

Yea i read it wrong. Thats kinda messed up dude.


I know it's not right. But if you believe the Bible is a holy book whose contents are "divinely inspired" (whatever that means), it makes sense to take the Bible at its word when it says we should stone homosexual men to death. If you're going to throw out the parts of the Bible that you don't like, and just agree with the things you already believe, what's the point of using the book at all? You seem to already have a perfectly good morality if you can see that stoning gay people is wrong and sacrificing animals is wrong, but being generous and loving is good. There are lots of philosophers with more well-defined and comprehensive moral philosophies than Jesus out there. Philosophers who also don't claim to be the son of God and don't condemn you to eternal hellfire if you don't beg them for forgiveness.

Yea i dont belive the bible to be holy. Anything written by man cant be holy. It is just a reflection of their views. The only way a book would be holy is if god himself came down to earth and laid in in our laps. But this book was also written at a time when human intelligence was alot lower than it is now. And these people were taught to beleive everything that their taught. That the word of these prophets was the word of god. In my views that is not the case. Its not the word of god but that of a prophet. It is simply theirs views on their world. And although they might have been the Brightest of their generation, they are certainly not the brightest of our generation.Thats why i beleive that you take the bible with a grain of salt.