Be happy, Not gay t-shirt

[Hardcore Newbie]

Iâ??m fairly liberal in my views, but Iâ??m somewhat torn on the following issue. Remember, this is all coming from a guy that thinks gay people should have all the rights of straight people, and canâ??t stand most religion.

Anyone hear about this story (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2976184&page=1)? The rundown of the story, is that following a day of silence (http://www.dayofsilence.org/), a student chose to wear a shirt that read on the front â??My Day of Silence - Straight Allianceâ?� and on the back said â??Be Happy, Not Gayâ?�. She was told to remove the shirt or go home, and that the reason for that choice was because students were prohibited from wearing messages that upset other students. Thereâ??s a bit more to it that Iâ??ll touch on, and if you read the link you can get the full story, but thatâ??s it for my summary.


I donâ??t get this. If the school bans messages that may upset other students, then clearly the school shouldnâ??t be encouraging a day of silence, which upon further reading encourages pro-gay buttons and the like, in the first place. You canâ??t encourage one side of a view while discouraging the other, especially when the reason for discouragement is that you may â??upsetâ?� other students. If one side of the message might hurt some people, then itâ??s a fairly simple conclusion that the other side of a message might hurt the other people.


If one person is allowed to express themselves, another person should be able to express the opposite view, itâ??s only fair. The shirt in itself isnâ??t even that offensive. It could have read â??Be Happy, Not a Faggotâ?�, which could have been considered vulgar and against school rules, and a legitimate reason to not allow the shirt, but it didnâ??t. Itâ??s not a shirt that incites hate. It might be anti-gay, but that doesnâ??t automatically insinuate hate. If I wore a shirt that read â??Watch Birds, Not TVâ?�, it doesnâ??t mean I hate TV, itâ??s just offering a suggestion, at the most.


However, the reason Iâ??m having difficulty is because Iâ??m not sure where the line should be drawn. If the school were to allow this slogan, it would have to allow practically any slogan that isnâ??t vulgar. In this next example, I was going to use an arbitrary colour so that I wouldnâ??t be singling anybody out, but the message becomes much less powerful, so Iâ??ll use a specific colour.


â??Be Smart, Not Blackâ?�


Should a child be allowed to wear that kind of message on a t-shirt? I say that in most circumstances, the answer is yes. If a school allows a child to wear a message that states one thing, then another child should be able to wear a message declaring the exact opposite, no matter how much I or anyone else disagrees with it. As long as it isnâ??t hateful, or inciting violence towards someone or a group, then it should be allowed.

[Marijuana connoisseu]

If you want free speech you have to give it freely

[rebgirl420]

yeah I don't agree with the message as i'm 100 percent for equal rights for gay people (my best friend is a gay male), they have the right to say it...anywhere...even if it is in bad taste..

[Turtlepik]

I\\\'d quite happily wear a t-shirt like that. I don\\\'t agree with the sentiment, but I find it genuinely amusing that people get so riled up over a few words. I have a close group of friends with whom no subject is taboo, and through (sometimes over)use of words and phrases that\\\'d most people leave the room, the whole power of the words fades away. Kind of like the way coloured people saying \"ni**er\" all the time. It\\\'s been used to death, and now if a couple of black people are talking to each other, they can say it as many times as they want in a sentence, and nobody seems to be offended. Of course the hypocrisy of it is that if I said it to one of them, I\\\'d be lebelled a racist. words are just words, and until people realise that, I suppose there\\\'s gonna be all this shit about what you can say and what you can\\\'t. Anyways, sorry for babbling. I think my meds have kicked in, and I\\\'m chatting shit now. I don\\\'t even want to read back what I just wrote, cos it probably doesn\\\'t make any sense.

EDIT: Can we not use apostrophes without getting a backslash now, or is it just my browser?

[Hardcore Newbie]

It's not your browser, just your post for some odd reason.

My beef with it tho is that pretty much any t-shirt can "upset" someone in the right circumstances. Someone wearing a TOOL (just for you rebgirl) shirt can upset someone, who perhaps didn't get to see them because they were sold out in 40 seconds.

Someone with a shirt that declares "I love everybody" might upset someone with a view that says people should have to earn love, and thus be upset at the message on the shirt.

[rebgirl420]

well, your always going to piss SOMEONE off, you cant make everyone happy

[lagirl4music]

well, your always going to piss SOMEONE off, you cant make everyone happy

yea i agree with that

[DistantToker]

Religion is something I've always strayed away from as a gay woman, situations like this has soo much red tape regarding civil rights. These kids have the right to say what they want but it doesn't make it right of course, and they would say the same to me.

But there are limits when it comes to schools, I use to have a lot of pro gay stickers or pins on my bags in high school and some teachers would flip it over and I usually would just flip it back over. School's don't want more than
they can handle, of course its a lot different in college.

Either way the message is anti-gay in my eyes, I don't know about comparing an anti-gay shirt to someone wearing a tool shirt or what not, and ppl not enjoying that message. Plus that wouldn't be good for me seeing how I'm gay and do own Tool Shirts lol. If I was in school with these ppl, I would have a hard time. Its like a billboard that won't go away, telling you, you'll be more happy "straight" rather than gay. Last time I checked you don't need to be heterosexual or homosexual to be happy.

"The suit alleges Zamecnik suffered unlawful discrimination and humiliation because school officials didn't agree with her viewpoint."
Its such a contradicting statement that she's being discriminated against because in fact that's how this whole situation started, by a shirt denoucing homosexuality. I understand that everyone is allowed to make statement but there are certain statements that will get you in a heap of trouble, and heated arguments.

I hear a lot of talk even in my classes about homosexuality and how its wrong and immoral, its difficult to comprehend from my stand point, I'm just a person living my life and everyday we all run into situations, or conversations that bother us and heat us up for discussion. I just don't understand why we are a such a judging world, especially with certain religions, I thought judging was left up to god if you are a religious person, therefor didn't you just go against gods word??? I do agree with newbie when it comes to free speech where do you draw the line??

[Hardcore Newbie]

Either way the message is anti-gay in my eyes, I don't know about comparing an anti-gay shirt to someone wearing a tool shirt or what not, and ppl not enjoying that message. Plus that wouldn't be good for me seeing how I'm gay and do own Tool Shirts lol. If I was in school with these ppl, I would have a hard time. Its like a billboard that won't go away, telling you, you'll be more happy "straight" rather than gay. Last time I checked you don't need to be heterosexual or homosexual to be happy.

I think it's always a good idea to examine the extremes of a viewpoint. I agree that wearing a tool shirt is not in the same area as a pro/anti gay shirt, but in a sense, it is. "Tool is the best band in the world" isn't a fact, it's an opinion. People should be able to express their opinions, no matter how how non-factual or unpopular those messages may be.


"The suit alleges Zamecnik suffered unlawful discrimination and humiliation because school officials didn't agree with her viewpoint."
Its such a contradicting statement that she's being discriminated against because in fact that's how this whole situation started, by a shirt denoucing homosexuality. I understand that everyone is allowed to make statement but there are certain statements that will get you in a heap of trouble, and heated arguments.

I agree with the fact that one may get into a heated argument, but at the same, all the student did was offer an opposing view point. The day before was about a pro gay message that many students participated in. This student decided to wear a pro-straight/anti-gay (whichever) shirt. It's an important exercise of our freedom. If the student is not allowed to express their viewpoint, she's being denied her right to free speech. If the school suppresses her view point, they can technically suppress any speech that they don't agree with. They

If they, however, didn't allow any messages regarding homosexuality, positive or negative, I think this would be fine. In this instance, they'd just be saying "This topic is off limits for our school" rather than "While this topic isn't off limits, you're not allowed to express one of the viewpoints" thus being forced to either agree or shut up. Consent can be achieved through inaction, so if you can't argue your view, then you are essentially being forced to agree with the other view.


I hear a lot of talk even in my classes about homosexuality and how its wrong and immoral, its difficult to comprehend from my stand point, I'm just a person living my life and everyday we all run into situations, or conversations that bother us and heat us up for discussion. I just don't understand why we are a such a judging world, especially with certain religions, I thought judging was left up to god if you are a religious person, therefor didn't you just go against gods word??? I do agree with newbie when it comes to free speech where do you draw the line??

I think religion is the only reason people look down upon homosexuality. And you do bring up the irony that people are not the judges, yet many seem to take it upon themselves to speak for their god. Hopefully one day the anti-gay message will be irrelevant, and makes as much sense as someone who wears a "legalize marijuana" shirt in Amsterdam :P

[orangeman]

I don't think they should be allowed to wear those shirts, we'd hate it just as much if people walked around with abovetheinfluence t-shirts on with one of their stupid things from their commercials like the guy smoking a joint with a dog with some stupid dialog on it . Just because some one chooses to do something doesn't mean it's o.k. for you to go around displaying you're against it, that should only be right if you are protesting in a group or trying to get laws changed. Maybe Cannabis is changing the way I think and some might think it's not good to think too deep but just some thoughts of mine when I was thinking on that subject is just that people that are gay are just as normal as people that are straight. Religion might tell us so many things and that's why I don't really participate in religion too much but I do believe in a God or a higher power. Most people think gays are wrong because it's an abomination according to the Bible. But some people don't understand that's just how they were born. I mean really, if the person was born like me or any other heterosexual guy there is no way in hell you could switch your sexual preference to males, it just can't happen because that's not how I was born. I do believe that some people are just born gay and I believe it's wrong to offend people with t-shirts about something they can't change.

[Matt the Funk]

Sure I guess it should be allowed in public, but school isn't a place for negativity. That isn't expressing yourself or bullshit like thats. It's pretty much pure negativity.

[andruejaysin]

Someone wearing a TOOL (just for you rebgirl) shirt can upset someone, who perhaps didn't get to see them because they were sold out in 40 seconds.

I used to have the one with the wrench that looks like a dick and balls, it upset a few people.

[halo]

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" --- Patrick Henry

This is one of those tricky situations. The kid has a right to express himself. What if he wore a shirt that said "White and Proud" and it offended black students? He would probably get in trouble. If a black student wore a "Black and Proud" shirt, nobody would really think too much of it. I guess thats a different situation though. The White and Proud shirt isn't denouncing being black, and the Black and Proud isn't denouncing being white. The problem is that this particular students shirt denounced being gay by stating "Be happy, Not gay." Although im incredibly pro-free speech, i agree with the school's decision. Thats almost like insulting someone.

I think the biggest problem though is that this is a public school and sends the wrong message to students. The students know that it is a government institution and that they have certain rights, but if the school deems the shirt/word/thing with offensive content/etc. then the students accept it and go on thinking that the government can dictate what you are to where and say in a government institution. This makes kids think that the government can control you, which it can't and shouldnt. I guess this is just one of those reasons why i dislike the idea of public schooling, or at least the way its set up in this country. If this were to happen at a private school, the faculty would say remove the shirt or youre in trouble. This is perfectly okay and not a violation of rights because it is a private school. I dunno, topics like this really make you think and question things.

[Hardcore Newbie]

I agree that a shirt saying "Be Happy, Not Gay" is a dumb shirt to wear.

come to think of it, the best reason for allowing someone to wear a shirt like this is that we'll know to ignore anything that comes out of their mouth :P It's almost an advertisement stating their stupidity :)

About the wrench shirt, if that offends people, I feel it's on the person who is offended to deal with it. A shirt is a very passive medium. You are not invading space, or yelling in someone's ear, or anything of the sort.

And what are you laughing at Billionfold? I'm not sure if I missed a joke :)

[DistantToker]

Free speech is so important but I think that some people may take it too far with certain things, yes it is free speech but your abusing that freedom at someone elses expense. Its just really difficult living in texas when I stayed in california for a year, I had that real taste of liberalism.

Now that I'm back its difficult when your hear people slaming your life on a daily bases and they don't even know that their talking about a person in a room, you can't help but want them to stop promoting and thinking that way, its purely hateful especially when its come from christians.

Same thing with the above the influence, they have some crazy ass idea of who we are as people, and its far from the truth. I'm a lesbian, I love my girlfriend very much and I'm tax paying indivdual who loves to smoke pot, its just hard hearing such hateful words of people sitting next to you, whether its about marijuana or being a homosexual. Sorry for my rant. *onto the bong* :) :thumbsup:

[rebgirl420]

I used to have the one with the wrench that looks like a dick and balls, it upset a few people.

I have one too, it has this logo!

[Hardcore Newbie]

Free speech is so important but I think that some people may take it too far with certain things, yes it is free speech but your abusing that freedom at someone elses expense. Its just really difficult living in texas when I stayed in california for a year, I had that real taste of liberalism.

Now that I'm back its difficult when your hear people slaming your life on a daily bases and they don't even know that their talking about a person in a room, you can't help but want them to stop promoting and thinking that way, its purely hateful especially when its come from christians.

Same thing with the above the influence, they have some crazy ass idea of who we are as people, and its far from the truth. I'm a lesbian, I love my girlfriend very much and I'm tax paying indivdual who loves to smoke pot, its just hard hearing such hateful words of people sitting next to you, whether its about marijuana or being a homosexual. Sorry for my rant. *onto the bong* :) :thumbsup:

No worries about ranting, I think we're all enjoying discussion and learning where people are coming from :)

I'll confess that I've never *really* been oppressed. I've been age discriminated a few times, I almost got taken to the police station once when I was younger because I was in a fight, and some cop thought I was "an illiterate youth with an attitude problem". I've never had any ongoing discrimination against me though.

The closest thing that i can think of is that part of my family is very, VERY religious and I do have arguments with them all the time, but they never get heated, thankfully. Our problem is that I guess I'm a humanitarian, I live my life by the virtues of courtesy and compassion. They live their life by the word of the Bible, and they are also very courteous and compassionate people.

The problem, I believe, comes from people who have a viewpoint and are discourteous and not compassionate, and force their views on others. My family tells me, and reminds me often, that my lifestyle is not a holy one, and they also remind me of the consequence (you know, the whole lake of fire thing). But they have every right to do it in my eyes.

So if a shirt reads "Do Drugs and Go to Hell", it may seem a bit hateful, but really I could care less what their shirt says. Something that I find unites many pot smokers is the fact that we are very courteous for the most part and if someone chooses to state their viewpoint in a non compassionate manner, why will I give any notice to what they're saying? Just let them wear it and it won't bother myself one bit :)

I thank everyone in this thread so far for bringing their views to the table :) and that's a bad assed tool shirt :)

[sickstrings84]

Freedom of speech is all well and good, and that girl does have every right to wear a shirt that say whatever she wants...........However, you have to limit yourself, cause what you say with your freedom of speech can make you look like a douchebag. :twocents:

Tim :bonghit:

[sailboat]

i disagree with that shirt completley.
yes, i agree with freedom of speech, yes i agree that everyone is allowed their own oppinion but hear me out.

gay rights does not impede on anyone else's rights. gay rights does not take away from striaght rights or attempt to persecute straight people,
that shirts only message is intolerance, which in my oppinion crosses the boundries of free speech.

it's such a confusing topic because free speech is so important to this country, but when free speech spreads hate, i think we need to draw the line.

[Hardcore Newbie]

I hear you, but something like "Jesus is the only way" is borderline intolerance (just playing devil's advocate)

[sailboat]

^^
i think those shirts are in terrible taste too, but not as intolerant as the gay one. well, imo. especially because jesus shirts generally dont single any one group
'jesus is the only way.... sucks for you, jew' or something.... (sorry, offensive, that is in no way my belief system!)

[Hardcore Newbie]

How about if it addressed non-believers? :)