Thought you ladies may be interested..

[halfassedjediknight]

..this is a bummer, except those who oppose abortion.

here you go (http://www.federalabortionban.org/press_statements/070418-supreme_court.asp)

[BabyFacedAbortion]

This ruling tells women that politicians, not doctors, will make their health care decisions for them."

Gee, thanks Bush, I definitly trust a politician MUCH more then my doc.

[Gatekeeper777]

Sister had an abortion when she was 14 and now she cant have kids now and she is 32.
I dont know if that had anything to do with it, but before the proceedure the
equipment worked fine.

I wonder what life would be like if Mary would have aborted Jesus, or mohomad was aborted? Drastically differant i would think.
I am indifferant on the matter.

[BabyFacedAbortion]

When abortion in the 2nd trimester is spoken about, I (maybe niavely) assume the women or the baby is in serious medical danger, that's why I'm so outraged. I cannot begin to imagine how a politian can determine whether or not a women can have control over her own fucking body especially for the wellbeing of herself and her child.

Some reasons for abortion, I do not agree with, but for the most part I believe there are too many valid reasons to keep it, then there are to get rid of it.

[bobbygreenbear]

i actually believe that abortion is wrong. i believe that even if it's a few cells, whether you call it a "human being" or not, it still has the potential of being a human being. i don't think i would consider abortion if anything less that it was killing my wife, and then i really don't know.

now, i'm sure that the VAST majority of you disagree with me. however, i'll say something here i hope you'll like:

now i'm a Christian (that's not what you'll like ;) ), i believe the bible, i don't follow any sect or denomination, heck i haven't really been to church in years. BUT, i find it a terrible thing that chrisitans and the like think that the LEGISLATING of abortion is the most important issue in our country's politics. folks, we're at war, killing people, we're at odds with half the world, we're making new enemies on every front; our government has too much power and it is corrupt and it is delusional and our president is a hollow shell of idiocy being filled from behind.


i'm not a conservative :) i voted for kerry, and i'm very liberal politically. i'm not saying abortion should be legal. i do think it is wrong, i don't think it is the woman's body. however, the legislation of abortion is just about the last thing on my mind when i think about our country


folks, don't let the goddamn corrupt politicians snow you with one thing while they get away with murder behind your back. don't be taken in. stand up for what you believe and let's turn this country around. i don't know about you, but i don't think the world has to hate us, i think we can help, i think we can be a beacon for good and hope.

sry, got emotional, anyway, most of y'all (heck i wouldn't be suprised if 100% of you) disagree with me, maybe you think i'm evil for believing that abortion is wrong. i certainly don't think you're evil for thinking it is right. i certainly don't want to see young girls self-aborting because they have no hope. God above, i don't want that.

anyway, i'll stop preaching, but i wish you all well, and i hope that you'll consider what matters most when you think about who you want to rule us

so really, i have to ask myself, do i believe abortion should be illegal? well, perhaps, but honestly i really don't know. i believe completely that it is wrong, i DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD DICTATE RIGHT FROM WRONG IN EVERY SCENERIO.

for instance, i think using crack is pretty wrong; you fuck yourself up; but i don't know that the government should tell us what we do to our own bodies. i certainly believe cannabis should be legal

in this case however, i don't believe it's your body, but the beginning of a human being growing inside you, whether it has one cell or millions, it's going to be a person, not a squirrel ( i hope ) ;)

so yes, in the end i would say i think abortion should be illegal, but i'll tell you this, it's just about the last thing i consider when i vote, and until the democrats become pro-life i doubt i'll be helping the anti-aborition cause. first i'd rather stop destroying our national resources, and breeding terrorists and invading countries

peace and love

[Hardcore Newbie]

i actually believe that abortion is wrong. i believe that even if it's a few cells, whether you call it a "human being" or not, it still has the potential of being a human being. i don't think i would consider abortion if anything less that it was killing my wife, and then i really don't know.

I'm not going to argue on the issue of whether or not abortion is wrong, just the text of this statement "potential of being a human being". I waste millions of opportunities for human life every day and flush them down the toilet.

But yeah, it's certainly down the list of concern i think, when there are much more important issues at hand. And government should be about being the moral authority.

[rebgirl420]

Im very pro choice myself. But thats just my 2 cents.

[Polymirize]

sry, got emotional, anyway, most of y'all (heck i wouldn't be suprised if 100% of you) disagree with me, maybe you think i'm evil for believing that abortion is wrong. i certainly don't think you're evil for thinking it is right.

Not at all. Allow me to speak perhaps for a small section of "the opposition", such as it is...

We don't think you're evil for believing abortion is wrong. We don't really believe in evil in the traditional perspective anyway. But we feel perhaps that you're failing to be empathetic to people who are different than you. Which is understandable, but not particularly laudable.

As is, we find it remarkably refreshing that your apparently open to allowing people to choose their own lives. Nobody thinks that just because the Jewish segments of the population cover their heads, we all do. Similarly, just because Christians choose to practice their particular beliefs about sex and conception, doesn't mean we should all be held to the same standard by the legal system.

we do have vastly differing beliefs concerning the beginning of life, and the rights accorded to human potentiality.

Do you also oppose masturbation? And must all sex be for the purpose of procreation?

[Samwhore]

I am pro-abortion. End of story.

[birdgirl73]

I'm pro-choice, too. But I confess that I do have problems with that form of late-term abortion. There's no reason it should be performed that late in the game, as awful and brutal as the technique is. Those pregnancies should be taken care of much earlier so that late-term procedure can be avoided.

I am troubled that the Supreme Court didn't see any reason to include language that made some rare exceptions when the mother's health and/or life depended on it. This opens the door to what we've all been dreading with this new court--even further restrictions on women's reproductive choices.

[Chronic Chrissy]

The article said that it would only be a crime if you were deemed healthy and it would be safe to have the child. I take that to mean that if there were a health risk to the mom it would be allowable. I see nothing wrong with this law if it is the case. I think that a trimester is plenty of time to decide even with the month of not knowing. Buy the second trimester you have a little human being in there, no longer an embryo. You should have a choice if you want to be a parent or not but you can abuse your window of oppertunity to decide at the expense of a now devolping person, that's wrong. Be responsible and take enough care of yourself and your body enough to know when an "oops" may have happened to make the responsible decision.

[BabyFacedAbortion]

I forgot about that, Chrissy!

[Gatekeeper777]

But an an embryo feel pain? When the doctor sticks that suction tube in you and the suction is so tremendious that it rips the embryo to shreds including tearing off the arms as well as decapitation.
But killing a child during labor is another by the doctor sticking a scalple into the back of the babies neck severing the brain stem or by snapping the babies neck, because its still not all the way out so its abortion and not murder.
Where is the line?
I say cum is cum and a fetilized egg is a human.

[Chronic Chrissy]

I forgot about that, Chrissy!

So does that alter your postion on the subject any differently now?

I'm a new mom any clearly remember the flutters in my belly as my daughter did summer saults inside me, I felt them early easily in the second trimester. Maybe I'm a little swayed by that fact, but I still respect responsible abortion when done promtly.

[BabyFacedAbortion]

It does, dear. :)

[Polymirize]

Where is the line?
I say cum is cum and a fetilized egg is a human.

Well that certainly feels nice and arbitrary...

Why don't we say that a human is a human, and a fertilized egg is... an egg?


A fertilized egg doesn't have autonomy, it doesn't even have a spinal cord. Meanwhile, we still test cosmetics on harmless little bunny rabbits, so why so worried about causing pain to embryos?

(and no, they can't feel it.)

[Gatekeeper777]

A fertililized egg has bbnoth sets of chromisomes (SP).
therefore its a person.

[napolitana869]

I used to be against this form of abortion. Then I read something a mother wrote. She had invetro and really wanted a baby. During the second trimester they found out it had some really bad disease. I forget what it was but it was something that would have pretty much forced the child to have a very painful and short life. She chose abortion (this was before the law was passed). It really hurt her to make that decision, and it was sure as hell not an opps situation. And she didnt regret her choice later. That changed my mind by opening up my eyes to see past the term they use for second trimester abortions. I think it should be allowed in certain medical situations. I also think this law serves as a stepping stone to further chip away at our rights as women.

[Polymirize]

A fertililized egg has bbnoth sets of chromisomes (SP).
therefore its a person.

Does it pay taxes? Does it have to wait in line at the DMV? Does it need identification? Does it get angry? Fall in love? Does it laugh? Cry? Dream?

No. It's not a person.

[Its a Plant]

Well that certainly feels nice and arbitrary...

Why don't we say that a human is a human, and a fertilized egg is... an egg?


A fertilized egg doesn't have autonomy, it doesn't even have a spinal cord. Meanwhile, we still test cosmetics on harmless little bunny rabbits, so why so worried about causing pain to embryos?

(and no, they can't feel it.)
LOL, Jordan fades back, shoots, and THAT'S THE GAME! :jointsmile:

[Chronic Chrissy]

Does it pay taxes? Does it have to wait in line at the DMV? Does it need identification? Does it get angry? Fall in love? Does it laugh? Cry? Dream?

No. It's not a person.

In the second trimester the answer is yes to the actual human requirements. Those other poor excuses for a rebuttal are easily not some thing a child under the age of 5 needs, does it make pre-schooler any less human.

napolitana869
I completely understand and support a decision like that and would do so myself. But that is still a medicle reason to have a abortion which the law allows.

[Gatekeeper777]

Does it pay taxes? Does it have to wait in line at the DMV? Does it need identification? Does it get angry? Fall in love? Does it laugh? Cry? Dream?

No. It's not a person.
roflmao
My grandmother never drove so so she never waited in line at the DMV!]
Most welfare recipiants dont pay taxes!
all illeagle aliens dont have ID.
And they are people.
as far as if it is sentiant...... I know PEOPLE who are 40 years old and I wonder if they are seniant.
But studies have been done. What would they have to dream about? The big one eyed spitting cobra?

You dont want kids keep it in your pants, or get protection, but if you do get one be responsible, there are thousands of childless couples LIKE MYSELF!
Who would love to adopt a baby,rather then kill it because its parents only wanted to get off.
But if you are going to kill them at least make use of their stem cells to help the poeple that are here now.
What a waste. kill the kid then toss away a possible cure for hundereds of ailments.
Would you be so much for abortion if you were still in the womb? Or were you born with a pro choice banner in hand? I would expect if you were born holding any sign it said" I dont pay taxes, i dont love anyone yet,i9 dont have no dreams yet....but i am human.
weather your 12 weeks old or 36 weeks old in the womb conception=kid!

[Purple Banana]

I am pro choice- simply put, if you're a man, you should not be the one deciding the fate of women, particularly if you don't hold an MD Liscence.

What about rape? Do you think the emotional tolls to the mother and child are worth it? Hell no.

[Polymirize]

In the second trimester the answer is yes to the actual human requirements. Those other poor excuses for a rebuttal are easily not some thing a child under the age of 5 needs, does it make pre-schooler any less human.

The thing is, it's not a poor excuse for a rebuttal. A poor excuse for a joke maybe, but not really a rebuttal.

Your's however, immediately jumps to discussing the 2nd trimester. And then Gatekeeper mentions some 36 weeks period... Regardless, we're not talking about 2nd trimester, we were talking about fertilized eggs. Changing the subject entirely doesn't make for a very solid rebuttal either...

Or, were you trying to be funny? :wtf:

[Chronic Chrissy]

I am pro choice- simply put, if you're a man, you should not be the one deciding the fate of women, particularly if you don't hold an MD Liscence.

What about rape? Do you think the emotional tolls to the mother and child are worth it? Hell no.

The rape victim can have an abortion in the first trimester.
as for men having no say I think that is wrong, both made the baby both should have a choice, it's unfortunate that women are the ones to sacrifice their body for 9 months, but it is also unfortunate when a possible excited father is over ruled and robbed of his potential child. Where's the choice in that?

[rebgirl420]

I am pro choice- simply put, if you're a man, you should not be the one deciding the fate of women, particularly if you don't hold an MD Liscence.

What about rape? Do you think the emotional tolls to the mother and child are worth it? Hell no.

EXACTLY!!!! Well said!

[Chronic Chrissy]

The thing is, it's not a poor excuse for a rebuttal. A poor excuse for a joke maybe, but not really a rebuttal.

Your's however, immediately jumps to discussing the 2nd trimester. And then Gatekeeper mentions some 36 weeks period... Regardless, we're not talking about 2nd trimester, we were talking about fertilized eggs. Changing the subject entirely doesn't make for a very solid rebuttal either...

Or, were you trying to be funny? :wtf:

How did I miss this?
The original article is regaurding the second trimester on, since unless there is an emergency situation NO DOCTOR WILL ABORT A BABY IN THE THIRD TRIMESTER, that leaves only the second trimester. So this talk about ferilized eggs is off topic because by the second trimester. I'm not sure if people hear understand just what that cluster of cells has grown into.

A regular pregnancy is 40weeks, really ten months not nine, but nine caledar months.
The Second Trimester (Weeks 13â??27)
Development. The second trimester marks a period during which the developing fetus becomes active, and begins to move, kick and swallow. Around the fifth month of pregnancy, the fetus gains the ability to turn from side to side or head over heels. It is usually around this point in the pregnancy (between the 18th and 22nd weeks) that most women experience "quickening", or the ability to feel fetal movement. It is also during this stage that the fetus begins to sleep at regular intervals. By the end of the second trimester the fetus is around 8 to 12 inches long and weighs up to 1 pound.

Here's some more
Fetal development during the second trimester includes the following:

The fetus kicks, moves, and can turn from side to side.


The eyes have been gradually moving to the front of the face and the ears have moved from the neck to the sides of the head. The fetus can hear the mother's voice.


A creamy white substance (called vernix caseosa, or simply vernix) begins to appear on the fetus and helps to protect the thin fetal skin. Vernix is gradually absorbed by the skin, but some may be seen on babies even after birth.

The fetus is developing reflexes such as swallowing and sucking.

The fetus can respond to certain stimuli.

The placenta is fully developed.

The brain will undergo its most important period of growth from the 5th month on.

Fingernails have grown on the tips of the fingers and toes, and the fingers and toes are fully separated.

The fetus goes through cycles of sleep and wakefulness.

Skin is wrinkly and red, covered with soft, downy hair (called lanugo).

Hair is growing on the head of the fetus.

Fat begins to form on the fetus.

Eyelids are beginning to open and the eyebrows and eyelashes are visible.

Fingerprints and toeprints have formed.(possible form of ID if you think of it)

Rapid growth is continuing in fetal size and weight.
The 20th week marks the halfway point of the pregnancy.

More...
Week 13: Baby flexes and kicks
You can't feel it yet, but your baby can move in a jerky fashion â?? flexing the arms and kicking the legs. This week, your baby might even be able to put a thumb in his or her mouth.

Your baby's eyelids are fused together to protect his or her developing eyes. Tissue that will become bone is developing around your baby's head and within the arms and legs. Tiny ribs may soon appear.

Here's another.

2nd TRIMESTER

@ 13 weeks:
***Vigorous fetal activity is observed: the child can kick, turn feet, curl and fan toes, make a fist, move thumbs, bend wrists, turn head, open mouth, press lips tightly together, jump and wave arms. (2,10)
***Breathing is practiced. (2)

@ 14 weeks:
***Most body surfaces are sensitive to pain. (5)
***Delicate finger movements present. (6)

@ 16 weeks:
***Child grasps with hands, swims and turns somersaults, fan toes, vigorous moving and kicking. Thumb sucking observed. (2,7)
***Child hears and reacts to external sounds: Classical music has a calming effect, while hard rock music has an agitating effect on the child. (7)

@ 18 weeks:
***Mother first feels baby's movements. (2)

@ 20 weeks:
***Clear sleep patterns evident. (2,7)
***A slamming door will provoke activity. (2)
***Child scratches himself. (7)
***Mother senses punching, kicking and elbowing by child on a regular basis. (7)
***Vocal cords now functional and used to cry. (7)
***Yawning begins. (6)

@ 21 weeks:
***Child documented during fetal surgery via hysterotomy to reach out of motherâ??s uterus and grasp surgeonâ??s finger with vigorous hand grasp. (11)
***Babies borne alive at this premature age can survive, but require intensive care. (12)

@ 24 weeks:
***Child sticks out tongue. (13)

Here are abortion methods used at different times during the pregnancy
Abortion Methods (http://readthetruth.com/abortion-methods.htm)

First pic is a 9 month aborted fetus
The second 13 week old fetus
The third a fetus at 16 weeks
The last a fetus at 7 weeks
This is what we are talking about, not eggs and embryos, this is only the begining of the second trimester.

[Polymirize]

Oh I'm sorry. You're still talking about the article, and I was actually responding to the discussion that developed in the actual thread. Horrible how people lose sight of what they're supposed to be talking about huh?

Anyway... I'm going to say something that I don't even particularly believe but which I feel might be necessary to make a point. If you have a weak stomach, you may want to stop reading now. I'll wait a second to allow you to decide...

...

...


Fuck it. I think you should be able to abort the child anytime before the beginning of the second stage of labor. Until it's crowning abortion is perfectly viable.
Until the fetus goes through the birth canal, that one valve in his heart (I forget the name but you probably know it, you seem to have an amazing grasp on this vocabulary) does not close, and he's not breathing for himself. What do you call it when something lives inside you and grows, using the host organism for nutriention?
Right, a parasitic relationship. As long as it exists as such, it's completely the parents call as to when it comes out...


And no, it's still not the point. Because Gatekeeper thinks life begins at conception and I disagree. That was the point. You've got fantastic cut and paste skills though. I'm impressed.

[Gatekeeper777]

so when does life begin Polymirize? IYHO

[Polymirize]

so when does life begin Polymirize? IYHO

For discussion purposes, I'll take the other pole and say when the fetus is viable to survive on it's own (and no, I don't mean it can fend for itself, but you would have to cut the umbilical cord).

[Chronic Chrissy]

I must make a correction. The first pic is of a nine WEEK aborted fetus NOT nine MONTHS. Sorry.

[Gatekeeper777]

If calling an unborn child a fetus or an embro and saying it is NOT alive or its NOT human helps you to kill babies.
then so be it. I certainly do not understand that its perfectly ok to kill a unborn child but if my dog was old and sick and i was to put him down i could go to jail.
Are we less then dogs?
:beatdeadhorse:

[Its a Plant]

If calling an unborn child a fetus or an embro and saying it is NOT alive or its NOT human helps you to kill babies then so be it.
Your logic seems a bit off here my man. If it's unborn, which it is, how can it be alive? Contradiction at its best. You can't kill something that's not alive, simply put.

Polymirize continues to rack up credibility as he fends off one after another...Well done. :thumbsup:

[Gatekeeper777]

that kind of credibility holds no water with me on this subject...... i mean its easy to say kill it while your the one breathing.
The whole debate hinges on when life begins. I guess its a personal choice. some say when the child draws the first breath and some (like me) say when the cells start to divide.

And by the way Bill Clinton allowed partial birth abortions. the doctor would stick the scalple into the babies brain before the shoulders popped out.
As long as 50% of the baby was still in the birth canal they cold perform the
operation.
why is it that we can do this...when the law states we can not kill someone that wants to die with dignity like Dr.Kavorkian? With assisted suicide?
It is my undying hope that we as a race of beings ABORT the one child that would have grown up to become a doctor and cured cancer or aids.

[Chronic Chrissy]

Your logic seems a bit off here my man. If it's unborn, which it is, how can it be alive? Contradiction at its best. You can't kill something that's not alive, simply put.

Polymirize continues to rack up credibility as he fends off one after another...Well done. :thumbsup:

But who's to say an unborn child isn't alive, That's like saying a Kangaroo joey in it's mothers pouch isn't alive. Wait You'll argue the breathing part.
Ok Now I'll compare a fetus to a common house plant, the rubber tree. When you go to clone a rubber tree one method is to slit the stalk halfway and to tie on a bag of moist growing medium for the roots to form in. It still gets nurtishment from the main plant while growing a foundation for which it can grow independently. Even if the mother plant dies while the roots are forming if there is a begining of roots the cloned portion still attached can survive as the mother parishes. Is that clone not alive because it is begining a new being from an established one? Is that clone alive but only in the sense that it is still conected to the mother, thus only the mother is alive?
How about the parasites and organisms that live and breed and form inside of our bodies comsuming us? Are they not alive because we sustain them and transport their nutrients and oxygen to them. A tape worm is alive, so it a tumor. No brain you argue? A jelly fish and many sea creatures have no true brain only nuclie to dictate the function of the organism, and since every cell has a nuclie every cell single or making up fetus is alive, It just makes us feel better if we don't think that way.

[Its a Plant]

These aren't plants or joeys or trees or jellyfish or tapeworms or tumors though.

We're talking about humans.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. If it's not breathing, and surviving on it's own, it's not alive. You cannot kill something if it hasn't been born (aka given life) yet. That's the road my logic takes me anyways. ~

[Polymirize]

Polymirize continues to rack up credibility as he fends off one after another...Well done. :thumbsup:

You're too kind man. This is like shooting fish in a barrel. Which is to say, not to challenging but still loads of fun.

:D

Haven't seen as much of you now that you're mod'ing. Miss your posting, but I suppose you're busy. I understand. Hard out here to be a mod...

:thumbsup:

[Polymirize]

First, to clarify, I don't need any help killing babies. If I got paid to do it, I'd be a rich man, and I'd still do it on the weekends as my hobby.

No, not really.


that kind of credibility holds no water with me on this subject...... i mean its easy to say kill it while your the one breathing.
The whole debate hinges on when life begins. I guess its a personal choice. some say when the child draws the first breath and some (like me) say when the cells start to divide.


You're probably right. However, legally, one side gets screwed either way here apparently. And I guess you've got to ask yourself that even if abortion isn't desirable (and it's not, I admit that) is it better to respect the rights and autonomy of some fetus, or of the actual sentient beings with lives of their own?

Chrissy has been so eager to prove that fetus are alive that she's cast the largest net she can. And I guess I'll have to conceed that fetus, and embryos, hell, even eggs, sperm and singular cells, are all alive.

When you reduce life to this term though, it becomes less special. You see, I consume life everyday. I'm a vegetarian, but my lunch is still a holocaust for the proud race of romaine lettace and cucumbers.

You've really boxed yourself into a corner, because now, in order to convince me that abortion is wrong, you'll also have to explain to me why we shouldn't operate on tumors, dislodge tapeworms, or eat... well, apparently anything other than rocksalt.

Ain't equivocation a bitch?

[Gatekeeper777]

First I have to say I love science. There is a problem we all have.
That problem is what is life and what is not.
With our quest 2 find life elsewhere in the oceans or on another planet or moon with a sea of water under the ice how do we classify it? whould it look us in the face and say "hello" and pay my back taxes? Or be a single celled organism.
We operate on tumors because even tho they are alive they are cells that have gotten the genetic code wrong and have mutated.
A tape worm on the other hand don't have any other purpose then to get inside you and live off of you, unlike a potential human child it has no potential for love or hate. It wants to be there to harvest your energy. As with an embro or fetus it never asked to be there and it never asked to be decapitated in the womb.
But there is ONE FACT I will say, "Most woman that have made the choice to have an abortion have regreted the decision leaving some to become manic depressive.
Maybe once you have the potential of becomming a parent the choice to terminate wont be so clear because once its made there is no going back you will always remember "My aborted fetus should be 14 today." You will never forget the one you gave up to the DUMPSTER no matter how many childern you let live.

[Chronic Chrissy]

Chrissy has been so eager to prove that fetus are alive that she's cast the largest net she can. And I guess I'll have to conceed that fetus, and embryos, hell, even eggs, sperm and singular cells, are all alive.

When you reduce life to this term though, it becomes less special. You see, I consume life everyday. I'm a vegetarian, but my lunch is still a holocaust for the proud race of romaine lettace and cucumbers.

You've really boxed yourself into a corner, because now, in order to convince me that abortion is wrong, you'll also have to explain to me why we shouldn't operate on tumors, dislodge tapeworms, or eat... well, apparently anything other than rocksalt.

Ain't equivocation a bitch?

There is life in everything, we do consume life everyday. I won't cut a tree down if it is not needed, nor will I pull up carrots or onions from my garden if I don't intend on using them. Plant have just as much determination to survive as any other living things using every last resource to protect it's existance of itself and the extention of it's life through procreating. This theory alone is what brings us all here by smoking a plant that has given it's every bit of energy for the best oppertunity to reproduce while we deprive it of the chance.

Our main goal in life is survival, survival of ourselves, and survival of our species. A tumor is an abnormal formation of cells that threaten our wellbeing, a tape worm parasite sucking our nourishment both for their own survival. A fetus may be a parasite but is what our bodies are designed to host and accomidate, a womans whole body is designed to feed and house a human fetus, and a man is designed to impregnate. The reason we eat, breathe, excrete toxins, is to survive to make a new human to make a new human to ensure survival. That is the difference between a fetus and forgien parasite that is designed to feed off the life supply of other creatures.

Abortion is wrong because the fetus has a will to live and survive and in the event of an emergency the mothers body will sacrifice itself too save the baby with more determination than it would to save its own even if the curupt mind would like to choose otherwise.

"Life is a condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally. A diverse array of living organisms can be found in the biosphere on Earth. Properties common to these organisms â?? plants, animals, fungi, protists, archaea and bacteria â?? are a carbon and water-based cellular form with complex organization and genetic information. They undergo metabolism, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations.

An entity with the above properties is considered to be a living organism, that is an organism that is alive hence can be called a life form. However, not every definition of life considers all of these properties to be essential. For example, the capacity for descent with modification is often taken as the only essential property of life. This definition notably includes viruses, which do not qualify under narrower definitions as they are acellular and do not metabolise. Broader definitions of life may also include theoretical non-carbon-based life and other alternative biology."

There is you definition for life and a Fetus meets every critiria. They have fat stores to use, aa well as an attached plecenta to demonstarte motabolism, They can grow and develope, Respond to outside stimuli, and have the essential organs to reproduce(you could take an egg from a fetus and sperm from another fetus and create an embryo.

Outside of that definition I believe that an organism has life if it has the strive to fight and hold on to the energy which keeps it moving. A person in a vegitative state is dead by my standards, but a fetus is very much a life.

[cannabis=freedom]

There is life in everything, we do consume life everyday. I won't cut a tree down if it is not needed, nor will I pull up carrots or onions from my garden if I don't intend on using them. Plant have just as much determination to survive as any other living things using every last resource to protect it's existance of itself and the extention of it's life through procreating. This theory alone is what brings us all here by smoking a plant that has given it's every bit of energy for the best oppertunity to reproduce while we deprive it of the chance.

Our main goal in life is survival, survival of ourselves, and survival of our species. A tumor is an abnormal formation of cells that threaten our wellbeing, a tape worm parasite sucking our nourishment both for their own survival. A fetus may be a parasite but is what our bodies are designed to host and accomidate, a womans whole body is designed to feed and house a human fetus, and a man is designed to impregnate. The reason we eat, breathe, excrete toxins, is to survive to make a new human to make a new human to ensure survival. That is the difference between a fetus and forgien parasite that is designed to feed off the life supply of other creatures.

Abortion is wrong because the fetus has a will to live and survive and in the event of an emergency the mothers body will sacrifice itself too save the baby with more determination than it would to save its own even if the curupt mind would like to choose otherwise.

"Life is a condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally. A diverse array of living organisms can be found in the biosphere on Earth. Properties common to these organisms â?? plants, animals, fungi, protists, archaea and bacteria â?? are a carbon and water-based cellular form with complex organization and genetic information. They undergo metabolism, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations.

An entity with the above properties is considered to be a living organism, that is an organism that is alive hence can be called a life form. However, not every definition of life considers all of these properties to be essential. For example, the capacity for descent with modification is often taken as the only essential property of life. This definition notably includes viruses, which do not qualify under narrower definitions as they are acellular and do not metabolise. Broader definitions of life may also include theoretical non-carbon-based life and other alternative biology."

There is you definition for life and a Fetus meets every critiria. They have fat stores to use, aa well as an attached plecenta to demonstarte motabolism, They can grow and develope, Respond to outside stimuli, and have the essential organs to reproduce(you could take an egg from a fetus and sperm from another fetus and create an embryo.

Outside of that definition I believe that an organism has life if it has the strive to fight and hold on to the energy which keeps it moving. A person in a vegitative state is dead by my standards, but a fetus is very much a life.

That was beautifully said, chrissy.

I'm anti-abortion except if there is a risk to mother or child (probably the only view I have that can be called conservative)....It makes me very sad that young teenage girls can get pregnant and then just have their baby killed so they don't have to deal with it. If you don't have the means to raise it, give birth to it then give it up for adoption so it can have a good life.

What is this pro-choice bullshit? This is not an issue about womens' bodies, because when women become pregnant, they are not dealing with their own body...they are dealing also with what will become a human being, and in fact is a human being, just not outside the womb yet. This is the exact reason that in the middle ages, a pregnant woman could not be executed. See, even in the fucking middle ages they respected unborn children enough for that!

[Chronic Chrissy]

Your logic seems a bit off here my man. If it's unborn, which it is, how can it be alive? Contradiction at its best. You can't kill something that's not alive, simply put.

Polymirize continues to rack up credibility as he fends off one after another...Well done. :thumbsup:

Where's polomirize now, Since you're keeping score and all....

[Polymirize]

Where's polomirize now, Since you're keeping score and all....

In answer to your query, I haven't felt the need to add anything since you've completely choked and failed to respond to my last post. I mean, you responded, but you didn't address anything.

I trust anyone with more than an 8th grade reading level to know where things stand...

[Gatekeeper777]

In answer to your query, I haven't felt the need to add anything since you've completely choked and failed to respond to my last post. I mean, you responded, but you didn't address anything.

I trust anyone with more than an 8th grade reading level to know where things stand...

After reading your responses to this thread I have decided to appologize.
I will be a man and come forward and say I was wrong and I am sorry, I will no longer try to convince you that abortion is wrong(without special circumstance).
In Fact I encourage you to have as many abortions as you can afford.
Humanity is already fucked up as it is without adding to it.

:thumbsup: :mad:

[Chronic Chrissy]

In answer to your query, I haven't felt the need to add anything since you've completely choked and failed to respond to my last post. I mean, you responded, but you didn't address anything.

I trust anyone with more than an 8th grade reading level to know where things stand...

Obviously there is no convincing you. You choose to give more respect to livestock than you do to a fetus. I wonder though how old are you? and do you have any children? Have you even had the oppertunity to shared the experience of a pregnancy with any female you know, even if it was breif and you were only abe to feel a kick or two?

When I was pregnant do you know how many strangers walked up to me to touch my belly to be in the presence and momentarily connected to my "lifeless" child? Or even the people who watched while I stood somewhere as my baby moves so much inside of me that my shirt rippled with waves? I've used my belly as a table for a warm dinner plate during my pregnancy and have had her kick it off from inside. You say she wasn't alive then and classify her in the same catagory as your veggies and fruit(which by the way are very much alive) Then so be it. Hell We're still breastfeeding at nine months, and I am still providing my daughter with her nurishment directly from the stores of my body, is she still then only partially alive?

Personally you come across as a very young adult who doesn't know the joy of a baby and only see him or her as a burden and parasite to it's mother. Wonder if your mother felt this way about you while she was pregnant, maybe you should ask her.

Oh and I did address your post Cucumber killer

[Chronic Chrissy]

After reading your responses to this thread I have decided to appologize.
I will be a man and come forward and say I was wrong and I am sorry, I will no longer try to convince you that abortion is wrong(without special circumstance).
In Fact I encourage you to have as many abortions as you can afford.
Humanity is already fucked up as it is without adding to it.

:thumbsup: :mad:

See you have to pay for abortions there as well as births here we have medicare and pay for it through our taxes, so our health care is free when we need it.

Just curious how much do hospitals charge for you to have a child?

[birdgirl73]

Here in the U.S. the hospital costs begin at about $5,000 or so for an uncomplicated two-day stay for a vaginal delivery. There'd be an additional $3,500 or more for the doctor's care, too. The hospital can range way on up over $12,000 for a cesaerean section with complications or other problems. And the doctor would charge much more in that case. Those prices don't include what would be charged if the baby had to stay in the NICU for any period of time, which isn't at all uncommon. It's very very expensive to have a baby.

It's become a rare exception here in the U.S. for federal tax money to fund abortions. Except in cases of rape, incest or medical necessity, federal Medicaid funding doesn't support abortions, and even then the allowances are very limited. Most states have followed suit by limiting their own state-level spending on abortions, too. This means the women who can least afford to have a child or carry a pregnancy to full term--health, circumstances and education-wise--are inevitably the onces who end up doing just that. And the vicious cycle of poverty, unwanted/uncared-for children, lack of education, and crime just progresses from generation to generation.

Don't get me wrong. I think anyone with a heart and brains believes abortion is awful. It is. That may not be a viable fetus until 22 or more weeks of gestation, but there's no doubt in my mind that it's an incipient life. Pregnancy prevention is the way to go (and not with ridiculous abstinence-only education, either), and I wish far more people would consider giving such babies up for adoption instead of terminating those pregnancies. But here in the U.S. we've so limited abortion services for the very poor--and are limiting the private services more and more every day, too--that it's terrifying. These limitations will not stop abortions. They'll just increase back-alley butcheries and end up raising our taxes to pay for either the complications of butcheries or the care for full-term deliveries.

In my ideal world, abortion would be safe, legal and very very rare.

[napolitana869]

Here in the U.S. the hospital costs begin at about $5,000 or so for an uncomplicated two-day stay for a vaginal delivery. There'd be an additional $3,500 or more for the doctor's care, too. The hospital can range way on up over $12,000 for a cesaerean section with complications or other problems. And the doctor would charge much more in that case. Those prices don't include what would be charged if the baby had to stay in the NICU for any period of time, which isn't at all uncommon. It's very very expensive to have a baby.

I think abortions run between $300-600. For someone who doesnt have much money, they may think its their only option.

[Chronic Chrissy]

Maybe I'm veiwing this differently because abortions are free here and easy to get. I know so many people who have had abortions and then become pregnant again by accident and just get another one. I've talked with many friends about new relationships and protection and when I ask wwyd if you got pregnant(because most don't use protection) they reply that they would go for an abortion. I believe in pro choice but that choice has to be made before another life is impacted. I've known couples where the young lladie becomes pregnant because they are irresponsible then terminate through abortion when the Guy really wants to be responsible and step up to prevent an abortion. The abortion is done because it is the womans choice then the guy mourns the possible child that is taken from him. Often the baby is teminated to maintain the lifestyle they have and the guy leaves as a result, be it directly or indirectly. Not to mention that with unplanned pregnancy there is alot of fear and uncertainty that can cause rash decisions that are later regretted.

When I first became pregnant my first thought was abortion and if I went and got it when I wanted it instead of waiting and thinking about it I would be devistated today and once I calmed down and handled the situation maturely I relized that an abortion is not the answer and while my regnancy was unplanned and unwanted so many pregnancies are and often work out to be a a perfectly happ functioning family because once you get into the process you body takes over and you world changes but more for the best.

Anyways I'm wasting preciouse nap time. As for the price of having a child, all I can say is it's about time ho,e births and midwives were used more because you don't nee a hospital to diliver a baby, but you do need someone who knows when it is time to go to the hospital and if it is needed because child birth can kill you or your child, but it can also be done naturally on you own. Wow I can see the price of having a child scaring people into abortion. In total we've spent $1000 in stem cell banking, and everything else has cost us less than $1000 in the last 9 months of caring for our daughter, the most expensive thing being clothes. We put aside $20 a paycheck(every 2 weeks) and that covers what wee need till the next paycheck. I think societuy has created the a level of consumption that is associated with babies that is entirely unneeded.

Wait rambling again, I really must go....

[Gatekeeper777]

Along time ago my Sons mother had 2 abortions before i met her. One day she came to me and told me she was pregnant. We carefully weighed out our options. She did mention having another abortion. I toild her that if she kills my unbornn child i would perform a post natal abortion on her!

[halfassedjediknight]

hey, this is about womans rights being trampled on. while your busy debating and yelling about when life turns into life and when an egg turns into a fetus into a human, there are people out there voting to take your rights away.

are you gonna do something about it? or let your president tell you when to take your cough medicine? the point is your rights are being compromised..and most of the us is fine with that. stand up already,