question to the faithful

[juggalo420]

i used to be a christian and now im a agnostic. i lost my faith in god due to mostly the bad things i see happening all around the world.

i have a question to all christians how do you reconcile a belief in a merciful god with the millions of children dying of aids in africa and the innocent people all over the world who suffer and die needlessly? how does a child dying of starvation fit into gods plan? every christian rants against those who support reproduction rights as 'baby killers' why dont you rant and rave against god who allows millions of children to die from hunger and disease daily?

[mr chinnery]

Good post man; strange how few christians have posted back...

[Delta9]

Because Catholics are Hypocrites.
And unfortunately I am Half Catholic.
But I keep to myself and never turn writing into doctrine because I have have heard Judas screaming from hell.

[adh endo]

dont blame god for the worlds problems, its people that let other people starve.
there is more than enough food production in the world to feed everyone completely.

If USA spent a 1/4 its defence budget for the next 4years it would be enough to educate, provide drugs, condoms, etc etc and "almost entirelystop the AIDS epidemic from Sub-Saharan Africa"

this is a good site, a click a day for free saves kids..
http://www.thehungersite.com

the reason this world is in such a shitty state is because most people are selfish.

[Delta9]

Yea.
Mabey its distribution.
I just do not follow.
And Know that I'm damned makes it hard to swallow.
In my hatred I wollow.
And the water I drown in is very shallow.

[NowhereMan]

dont blame god for the worlds problems, its people that let other people starve.
there is more than enough food production in the world to feed everyone completely.

If USA spent a 1/4 its defence budget for the next 4years it would be enough to educate, provide drugs, condoms, etc etc and "almost entirelystop the AIDS epidemic from Sub-Saharan Africa"

this is a good site, a click a day for free saves kids..
http://www.thehungersite.com

the reason this world is in such a shitty state is because most people are selfish.


well i have a question too

if god see's all the mess HE/SHE/IT lets man create with "free will",Why then dont he 'smite' the evil doers and give peace a chance,?


why would he let child molesters and rapist and cold blooded killers even walk on earth for one day

if he is looking ,to me it must be so we are so miserable that we want a new world,,,,his lil promiss of heaven,
like a carrot dangling in front of the horse
the horse keeps trying get it,and takes another step

that is not my idea of compassion and mercy
thats greed of souls,a selfish power trip

there can be only one type of thing


anyway
to those that believe,i dont put you down at all,in fact im happy for you
to those that dont,well i guess i see you in hell someday

peace

[psychonaut]

Its not god who did this, its us. Did god allow gay marrige? Didnt think so....and god didnt allow abortions either...its our fault

[Delta9]

We'll the Isrealites enslaved in Egypt said that their Lord is a Jealous God and all those who do not worship him will be damned to a lake of fire.
But I have hardened my heart.
I have hardened my heart just like the Pharaoh of Egypt hardened his when he would not let the'yer people go.
And so Moses saw to it that first born man was slain in the name of YHVH.
And in blood those that believed in their Lord were spared.

[juggalo420]

We'll the Isrealites enslaved in Egypt said that their Lord is a Jealous God and all those who do not worship him will be damned to a lake of fire.
But I have hardened my heart.
I have hardened my heart just like the Pharaoh of Egypt hardened his when he would not let the'yer people go.
And so Moses saw to it that first born man was slain in the name of YHVH.
And in blood those that believed in their Lord were spared.

that sounds like a spoiled brat, worship me, worship me or ill smite you, worship me 'cause im lonely. Thank god i dont believe in him.

[Delta9]

Who were you thanking again?
Merry "Christ"mas

New blood joins this earth.
and quickly he's subdued.
Through constipated screams a young boy learns the rules.
With time the child draws in
This wipping boy done wrong.
Deprived of all his thoughts.
This young man struggles on.

And then Die regretfully.

[XTC]

I believe in God. I mean how else would we exist. God created us and lets us have free will weather it be bad or good. But we pay for our actions in this life or the next. The world is the shitty place. Its the people with the most money and power that pretty much do as they please. Every few thousands years it seems like some sort of epidemic kills thousands of people. Maybe thats a way of god "cleansing" the world. This is just High talk though. Me and some friends were talking about it a while ago. We either think its going to be smallpox yes its out there it will strike again question is When? or some mutant ungodly flu infection. Flu mutates every year. In the recent years its getting wrose and wrose. So ya thats just my theory

[The C]

i used to be a christian and now im a agnostic. i lost my faith in god due to mostly the bad things i see happening all around the world.

i have a question to all christians how do you reconcile a belief in a merciful god with the millions of children dying of aids in africa and the innocent people all over the world who suffer and die needlessly? how does a child dying of starvation fit into gods plan? every christian rants against those who support reproduction rights as 'baby killers' why dont you rant and rave against god who allows millions of children to die from hunger and disease daily?


Aww man that stupid arguemnt isnt even valid enough to be called an arguement. It's a fucking excuse not to put faith in something, or feel accountable for humanities mistakes.
What kind of god who's fair and has given us the right to complete freedom take away our rights.

What do you expect him/her/them to swoop down and fix the fact you hit yorurself in the face? Or stop you from doing it? No because that wold be an infringement on your freedom.

You won't learn the consequence of hitting yourself until you do. Or the feeling of pain, and if you cant feel pain then you cant appreciate comfort. Whats the point in living without feeling experienceing/feeling it?

It's seems your asking for someone to fix your problems, we'll too bad. If humanity does survive, i want to be able to say humanity survived! Not humanity survived because of God. It would be selling out, selling out faith in ourselves. Cheapening our success.

I thinkanyhow. Im tierd and stoned.
Time for bed

[FrenchInhale]

I think the reason why God allows people to die and suffer because of free will. Think about it. How can aids be spread? Through sexual behavior/dirty needles/born with it from parents. So, God states in the bible that people should stay a virgin until marriage. (I personally am not and am a christian, but that is neither here nor there.) So, if people would not have had premarital sex, aids would not have spread around. People would not have died. Its like Gods way of punishing those who don't do what he says. I mean there are plenty of cases in the old testament where God killed peoples kids for being unfaithful. Besides, if God saved everyone then that would mean the end of the seven years of tribulation. One day, everyone in the world will know that God is God. Its just that that time isn't today or tomorrow or anytime soon... so people will continue to die, and God will continue to allow people to die. Just my take on the matter.

[Nullific]

dont blame god for the worlds problems
Hold up, so we can't blame this god for our own or the worlds problems...yet much of society expects everybody to thank and worship god and donate generously to the church?

I believe in God. I mean how else would we exist. God created us and lets us have free will weather it be bad or good.
I accept that I don't know all the answers as to why I exist but I dont go off and blindly worship a God and follow some bullshit from a book thousands of years old that has been translated, copied and 'revised' too many times by people whose agendas were questionable to be called the 'word of God'. The theory of evolution has more evidence to support itself than belief in a god.

And what 'free-will'? We get to do whatever we want, except if we break one of the ten commandments off to hell we go. Theres too much controversy over what is and is not a sin, to some people everything is a sin and im sure as hell not going to some confession or saying any hail-marys "just in case."

[Kid Dynamite]

No offence, but this thread is absurd. Are you saying that god should make everything perfect and save everybody. If God did that we'd have to reason to beleive in him. It sounds tight, but how can we seehow good what we have is if we have nothing to compare it.

[Delta9]

Why would you look to God for an answer to the problem of why people suffer.
People suffer due to the physical conditions that surround them.
If the conditions are good we are generally in better health.
If conditions are bad we are generally in worst health.
Some people are born under horrible conditions.
Others are born under good conditions and bring suffering upon themselves.
It is not to deny the existance of God.
People need to look toward real solutions to problems rather than relying on prayer and faith.
Prayer and faith are good for the soul.
It is up to humanity to bring an end to suffering.

[juggalo420]

No offence, but this thread is absurd. Are you saying that god should make everything perfect and save everybody. If God did that we'd have to reason to beleive in him. It sounds tight, but how can we seehow good what we have is if we have nothing to compare it.

exuse me but that is bullshit about 'how can we seehow good what we have is if we have nothing to compare it' ,so a dying child is being used as a pawn by god to show other people how good they got it. And how is it absured to ask why god lets people suffer and why i dont believe in him IN PART due to this reason? God i thought was supposed to be all loving and all merciful yet he condems people to hell for the free will he gave us, its like a parent giving his child permission to stay up really late past bedtime then punishing them because they wake up late. God is a man made invention.

[juggalo420]

Why would you look to God for an answer to the problem of why people suffer.
People suffer due to the physical conditions that surround them.
If the conditions are good we are generally in better health.
If conditions are bad we are generally in worst health.
Some people are born under horrible conditions.
Others are born under good conditions and bring suffering upon themselves.
It is not to deny the existance of God.
People need to look toward real solutions to problems rather than relying on prayer and faith.
Prayer and faith are good for the soul.
It is up to humanity to bring an end to suffering.

So if god does exist, i guess he doent give a fuck about us.

[Nullific]

That is correct.^

[Delta9]

Of course not.
He is a Jealous God.
He demands that you Bow down and worship him.
He is vengeful of all those whom do not fall before him.
That is what the Hebrews said.
That is what Is revealed in the Torah.
That is as stated in the Bible.
And that is what has been proclaimed by Mohommad.

[FrenchInhale]

juggalo its hard to explain the idea of why God allows people to suffer. Think of free will like this:

Free Will = You moving out of your parents house and having to fend for yourself. You make choices yourself and you have concequences for those choices good or bad, and your choices can effect OTHER people. So, the children who are dying and starving and stuff. No it isn't their fault, its their parents fault, or there parents parents fault... somewhere down the line its someone in their families fault. There choices effected their grandchildren. So, God is not going to just come rescue someone. We are on our own... we aren't going to get help from God, because we are on our own on earth. However, christians feel you still have to believe in God and worship him, because what would be better... having a crappy life or not having a life? Everyone on earth should be greatful... they are all alive.. which is a blessing. Again, just my take.

[Delta9]

Angels fighting aimlessly.
Still Dying by the Sword.
Our Legions K_lling all in Sight.
To get to the on called Lord.

[Delta9]

I hate Religion.
All those people dressed in their nice sunday suites.

[Buck268]

Familar with Deterministic philosophy? How about Compatibilism?

[Delta9]

Yea I know determinism, fate, yata yata yata.

compatibilism. No i have not heard of compatibilism.

But I have met a few priests and The Christianity is sold out.
I'm sorry but the church just wants money. They have charoties but the money never goes to the people that really need it. It goes straight into University Officials pockets.
Not only that people that work for the Catholic church also tend to be police officers and firemen. They sorta' take over our government. I mean look at george Bush He's alsways talking about his faith. Or IL Senator Obama Said he likes to mix his spirituallity in with politics. There is a Definite separation between Church and state that is slowly diminishing. We do not need a bunch of 80 year old Catholic Cleargy members running this fucking country expecting a bunch of young kids to getting down on their knees and kissing their hands. I go to A Catholic School and All those people to see ranting and raving about abortion and gay sex and drug use are all Up tight, Anal, Faggots from Catholic Church.

[Delta9]

I think I wrote I support George Bush. And I do. Hes The President. But The Christian concept of proper living in society is not entirely correct. Not only that Christians are never open to other peoples view because they see the Bible as the right way. Look what Christians did to the Native Americans. They tried To Dress them up like School boys and Teach them to read. Come on they were the fucking first generation Nomadmadic warriors that the colonists met. Do you really think that they would accept the Doctrine of the Church.

[Kid Dynamite]

Delta - Why do you automatically associate christianity with sunday best and suits, or priests. People show their faith in lots of different ways. You seem to be tarring all christians with the same brush.

[Delta9]

I guess I was not really trying to refer to Christians as Individuals. So Yea I think I have made a incorrect generalization. It's Just the Government of the Church is not something I would want to be apart of. What I am reffering to is some of the doctrine that Christianity teaches. Most people go to Curch and Donate their money to the Church, but, Do they really know what their donating to. The Bible lays out a strict structure of rules and regulations that Christians are supposed to abide by. And I don't think that your average Marijuana smoker would be too happy living under the rule of the Pope. I go to a Catholic School run by an Abbot and The University/Church officials are extremely republican and have extremely tight security. Do you want cameras watching your every move - being constaintly monitored. You know "Big brother is watching" we'll thats the kind of stuff that these strict Catholic officials believe in and that is the prosecution of all drug users to the maximum extent of the law and the persecution of homosexuals and the abolishment of abortion.

[Delta9]

If you had to take orders from some old jack-off priest like I have too, then you would probably worship satan as well.

[Delta9]

Tenthousand lights come blazing down with razor sharp precision. The speaker pour out molten steel. The beat give double vision.
An armor plated raging beast that's born of steel and leather. It will survive against all odds stampeding on forever.

[Delta9]

Heavy Metal!
Rob Halford has returned.

[FrenchInhale]

I think think delta you are right about the church and money. I am a christian, BUT I don't go to church nor do I agree with what the church thinks... I like to think of myself as a renegade christian with my own personal beliefs... but I still hold true to the bible.

[Delta9]

I get carried away sometimes. It's just hierarchy of The Church seems to me to be a bunch of materialistic people whom cover themselves with fancy dress with gold just as Muslims do. Its like when Christians rebelled against the Roman government the Jews colaborated with the Roman government and now Christians have collaborated with the U.S. government with the Aim of a world order under the church.

[Delta9]

I cannot be misunderstood that what our government does is wrong. It is not wrong. We need sources of nuclear power. But as the Native Americans were stripped of there land and wealth in the name of The Lord so to the American people be stripped of their rights if we are not careful.

[Delta9]

To as they say not as they do.

[Delta9]

I vote for Judas

[Delta9]

It is the strength and purity
It is the True Aryan Nation that will up-lift.
It's of Chrome and Steel.
Of Brass and Leather.
And it must go on.
It must go on forever.

[F L E S H]

Here's a little something I read about in a book written by a former Anglican Priest:

In the first 2 centuries, the birth of Jesus was celebrated in the spring. December 25 was also the birthday of millions of other divinities or religious figures, Horus (Ancient Egyptian), Dionysus (Ancient Greeks), Mithras (Ancient Persians), and countless others.

It's funny how one of the central images of Christianity has the 'Virgin' Mary holding baby Jesus, and yet this image has existed for thousands of years before in Ancient Egypt With Isis holding her baby Horus (also a virgin birth, I might add).

Christianity is essentially plagiarizing Ancient Egyptian religion, and some elements of other religions too. The Church fathers of the 3rd-4th Century AD practically appropriated the myths and legends of other religions as their own, and took them away from the realm of myth and made them History.

This phenomenon serves to explain a lot of the religious situation today. We agree that fundamentalism is taking what's written in the Bible or the Qu'ran literally. This stems directly from a decision made almost 2,000 years ago. Before Christianity, the myth of Creation existed in similar forms among the Egyptians and other cultures, yet they understood that it was a legend, a myth from which we are NOT supposed to look for absolute truth, but only moral and spiritual truth.

In fact, this was the main criticism of Pagans towards Christians, that they were dumbing down millenia of ancient wisdom, deliberately lying to their followers, and applying a completely literal meaning to texts which were never meant to be taken literally.

This is all fact, ladies and gentlemen, not conjecture. Go to Egypt and on the ruins of the temple of Luxor there are many depictions of Isis and her baby Horus. Oh, by the way, Horus had other names, such as Iusu (jesus, anyone?) and mummies were always found with the letters KRST inscribed on them, 2,000 years before 'Christ' as we know it ever existed. There are many texts still existing today written by the Church fathers (St Augustine, Eusebius, St Jerome, and others) where they outright say that it is necessary to hide the truth from their followers because they're too stupid to understand any other, and giving them too much knowledge is dangerous.

Just think about these things, even you want to refute them. I am not advocating atheism instead of religion, I am just trying to make people aware that we do not live in a vacuum, and that fighting over religion is Ridiculous. We are all connected, to ourselves and to nature. We just need to wake up and cast out the liars who are still trying to pull the wool over our eyes and keep it there.

[Nullific]

At times I think religions were all jokes created to see how many sheep would follow.

[seeker]

i used to be a christian and now im a agnostic. i lost my faith in god due to mostly the bad things i see happening all around the world.

i have a question to all christians how do you reconcile a belief in a merciful god with the millions of children dying of aids in africa and the innocent people all over the world who suffer and die needlessly? how does a child dying of starvation fit into gods plan? every christian rants against those who support reproduction rights as 'baby killers' why dont you rant and rave against god who allows millions of children to die from hunger and disease daily?

i dont beleive in a merciful God, i believe in a wise God who know that pain is the best teacher and that the only way man will ever become whole inside is if we can come together and help one another instead of waiting for a god to do it for us at the end of times.

i beleive in a Jah who gives us examples of ways to live, through greate saviors and teachers like Jesus, Ghandi, Marley, Mother Teresa,
Tupac, Mohammed and so on.

The only person i would rant against is one who whines that God doesnt exist because there is suffering in the world while he sits around smoking his weed and whining about its quality, living in a land such as America or England and giving nothing back to the world he sees hurting, whether it be the bum on the street or teh dying aids child in africa.

I'd like to ask the author of this thread if he has ever gone and helped these children, has ever held the hand of one dying of hunger and looked into their eyes and prayed for them, has done anyhting real to help someone before he said there is no God. No one has any right to complain about a problem that they have not tried to fix.

no offense kid, but fuck that philosophy. get over it, everyone feels pain but you still ahve to get off your ass and live.

~~pura vida friends~~
~seeker(of Jah and love)~

[Nullific]

I'd like to ask the author of this thread if he has ever gone and helped these children, has ever held the hand of one dying of hunger and looked into their eyes and prayed for them, has done anyhting real to help someone before he said there is no God. No one has any right to complain about a problem that they have not tried to fix.

Hah, the thread starter, Juggalo420 or andy as I know him in real life has enough problems of his own...you really have no idea. He rarely has money anymore but whenever im with him and we're walking down the street if he sees a homeless person he'll give whatever he can. While on his DXM trips he occassionally rambles about how he wants to help people, I have even heard him talk about joining the peace corps.
Andy is hardly the type of person that gives nothing back, he has nothing to give. He doesnt sit around smoking weed and whining about the quality...he doesn't even have weed. Hes done plenty before he decided there was no god, and he has every right to question that belief.

[seeker]

alright, i just hate it when all the spoiled brats in the area i live in whine about ther being bad in the world when their parents wont let them drive for the weekend and shit like that, im glad to hear that hes not a spoiled prick.

[meek mike]

To answer the first question:


From the famous movie Forrest Gump
Shit Happens

To ask a question to those that think God should take care of our problems.

How much have you helped man kind?

If all you have done is given change to a few homeless people or maybe a cheese burger that you weren't going to eat any ways. Why don't you do more instead of asking for help from someone you don't even believe in?

For those that like to say what other peoples posts are Bullshit that is thier opinion why are you being so negative towards another persons opinion. You have an opinion do you want others to call your opinion bullshit. Why can't you be more tolerant? Why must you be like those that you dislike? Example: Crusade, Christians and Native Americans, etc... You are doing what those people did your just at the begining of the jouney. It starts out by saying thier view is Bullshit. Then it gets worse by hateing people for being one (Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc) you just don't want to go to jail for killing in the name of your view. Be tolerant.

The way I see life and God's part in it is this way:

Do you have a favorite movie?

God has one it's called Reality on Earth.

If he was to correct the mistakes the people on earth make then the movie (life) wouldn't end up the way it is intended to. For example. If someone told the girl in the first Nightmare one Elm street that all she had to do is not believe in him that would make a good movie would it. It would be over after her first nightmare. Then Nightmare on Elm street would nave been made 99 times. (how ever many there are)

That's most likely not the best example but again thats the way I see it and it's my opinion so if your going to say it's bullshit good for your. Cause your a hypocrite that can't accept people that have a different view on life.

Christianity isn't about Church, Dressing good, Tithing, etc. It's about Jesus Christ and what HE did for you. Besides giving free will so people don't have to believe in him he died for our sins (mistakes) he takes way those bad things you've done and makes you clean. Then says if you do screw up again don't worry I'll still forgive you and love you and don't worry I know Shit happens.

Free will in my opinion sucks sometimes because I have a duaghter and I know if she didn't love me I'd feel liek shit. Just think how God feels. So many people don't believe he even exists but he loves them so much to let them still think that because any other way it would be forceing him on them when he doesn't want to do that. He wants them to love him for him. Just like so many people want others to love them for being them. We are Gods likeness in every way.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[FrenchInhale]

I find it amazing that people who can ever do drugs recreationally and can afford a computer can say that have it hard or they don't have money. I mean my lord, in some countries entire families make like $900 A YEAR. I mean shit, i made that much in a stock with spare money I decided to invest. Unless you are homeless, starving, and on the verge of death then you shouldn't be complaining. Anyone that is on this message board is rich enough to live in electricity and be able to access a computer. No money? Give me a break.

[juggalo420]

Hah, the thread starter, Juggalo420 or andy as I know him in real life has enough problems of his own...you really have no idea. He rarely has money anymore but whenever im with him and we're walking down the street if he sees a homeless person he'll give whatever he can. While on his DXM trips he occassionally rambles about how he wants to help people, I have even heard him talk about joining the peace corps.
Andy is hardly the type of person that gives nothing back, he has nothing to give. He doesnt sit around smoking weed and whining about the quality...he doesn't even have weed. Hes done plenty before he decided there was no god, and he has every right to question that belief.
thanx, ill be seeing u soon.

[Nullific]

I find it amazing that people who can ever do drugs recreationally and can afford a computer can say that have it hard or they don't have money. I mean my lord, in some countries entire families make like $900 A YEAR. I mean shit, i made that much in a stock with spare money I decided to invest. Unless you are homeless, starving, and on the verge of death then you shouldn't be complaining. Anyone that is on this message board is rich enough to live in electricity and be able to access a computer. No money? Give me a break.
You are ignorant to the circumstances of anybodies life on this board, maybe he lives with a foster family, maybe his dad is a homosexual, maybe his mom works 12 hours a day at a gas station to support the family...maybe he got a laptop computer for free after attending a seminar that was paid for by the state. Maybe he has a free trial from an internet service provider. Perhaps he is accessing the internet at the local library. Maybe he cleared out his bank account and spent all the money on crack and cough medicine.

Sure someones always gonna have it worse than you, but does that mean you have no right to complain or question the existence of god?
If you got stabbed in the back and paralyzed from the waste down I guess you should just keep your mouth shut and be thankful that you didn't get gang raped and shot in the head right?

[meek mike]

Null and Jugg-

Who do you thank when things happen for the good that you had no control over?

You do you ask for help when things out of your control happen to you?

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[Nullific]

Haha nothing good happens to me, I owe $300 and its my own fault. Im not about to ask 'god' for help...because there is none and there is nothing any god would be able to do. This isn't the only reason I don't believe in god, i've argued over this same subject on different boards well over 50 times and each time I hear xtians say what to me sound like the dumbest things.
"How do you explain your existence?" - My parents fucked and out came me 9 months later.
"What do you think happens when you die?" - Reincarnation, the only afterlife theory for which there is any proof of.
"What if there is a god and you go to hell for not believing?" - Thats called blind faith, its pure ignorance. If there happens to be a god who wants me to go to hell for not believing in him hes an arrogant egotistical asshole.

The whole concept of heaven sickens me. The bible is a joke, you can't pick and choose what you want to follow and according to the bible disobedient children should be stoned to death and it is perfectly acceptable to sell your daughter into slavery.
There are too many religions that claim that their god is the one true god, you cannot refute one without the others.
Past civilizations believed that their god(s) were the true ones, those religions fell as will todays modern religions in the future.

Religion incourages intolerance, sexism and racism. The only reason why religious beliefs are not recognized as delusions is because so many people follow them. Religions are cults, its all about power and money.

I have spent years of my life in self-exploration, i've researched other religions before deciding what to believe and still am.

http://www.christianitymeme.org/

[meek mike]

Null-

Man I just asked two very simple questions and you go off on a rant about religion and intolerance etc. I just want to know the answers to my question. Sorry if I'm blunt about it but I just read your rant and most of it, well it sounds sad to me. Can you please answer my questions?

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[meek mike]

You do you ask for help when things out of your control happen to you?


YOU should be WHO. Sorry.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[juggalo420]

Null and Jugg-

Who do you thank when things happen for the good that you had no control over?

You do you ask for help when things out of your control happen to you?

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ
when something good happens i think it is just by random chance. Let me ask you something, when something bad happens do you blame god? I see life as a mix of good and bad all the result of either your actions and effort or just through chance.

[meek mike]

When something bad happens do I blame God?

This is a great question. My wife and I were going to have a baby last Feb. One morning while sleeping I heard my wife yell from the bathroom. I quickly jumped up and ran in to see what was happening. She had a miscarrage while taking a shower. I quickly picked her up and took her to the hospital. While driving I new I had lost my son and I was very pissed off at God for allowing something like what happened to happen. The second I was about to damn my maker I realized that things happen like this in life to everyone. It's not a personal thing shit happens. I know God could have saved my boy. I know that he could have taken all the pain my wife was going through away. I know he could have taken the pain then and the pain now I am going through from the loss of my son. Can I blame God for all of that. I was going to but I realized it happens to almost everyone in some form or another. I realized that if these things don't happen in thier lives then they don't become the people they are intended to become. I knew that my wife was going through the shit she went through for some kind of good. I ddin't see it then but later I did. Three months after my loss a friend of my wifes had a miscarrage. She was single but like every mother was looking forward to seeing her child. When she lost her child she became so depressed that she wanted to commit suicide. Luck for her my wife heard what happened and she wnt over to comfort her. When she got there she had a gun on the table and was planing her death. My wife talked with her and comforted her. She didn't do it and today she is very happy. If my wife didn't go through the shit she did she wouldn't have been able to help her friend. I believe we should look at the good to everything no matter if we can't see it yet. Just know it happens for a reason. Do I blame God, I almost did but I do not. My faith comforts me, helps me, and stregthens me. With out God not only would around twelve people be dead by my hands I wouldn't be where and who I am today. In bad times I turn to him and he comforts me. In good times I turn to him and thank him. In so so times I blaze a joint and go back to thanking him for everything. I can't think of a life with out my faith. I don't go to church because I know I can talk to God and worship God any where. When I want to learn more of him or hear his voice I read my Bible. Not everyone is like me. Not everyone can understand me. I live by faith (something I can't see) but am I happy? Very happy. Will I ever be sad. Only until I realize the good I can't see will happen one day. I hope I answer your question they way you thought I would. May my Lord and savior watch , protect, and guide you in the direction of peace.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[Rahein]

Here is another question.

How can you belive in God when 10s of thousands of people died from a tsunami right around Chistmas?

I guess a Christian could say that it is God punishing the non believers. I thought that that was stopped after Jesus died. Maybe the vengful God is comming back.

[sawleaf]

Here is another question.

How can you belive in God when 10s of thousands of people died from a tsunami right around Chistmas?

I guess a Christian could say that it is God punishing the non believers. I thought that that was stopped after Jesus died. Maybe the vengful God is comming back.

There is a reason for everything that happens, even though we may not be able to see it.

[Rahein]

There is a reason for everything that happens, even though we may not be able to see it.

Ah the standard Christian copout.

[sawleaf]

Ah the standard Christian copout.

Why is it always the people who do not believe in God who question the Christians? You never see a post where we Christians ask why people don't believe in God. We are happy with our faith, but it seems like the people who are not Christian are always negative, upset, or attacking Christianity. I don't need scientific evidence to support my beliefs, because I have experienced things that are pure evidence for my faith. I could care less what others believe. Science can not even come close to answering every question and explaining everything.

[Delta9]

The fact that thousands of people die daily does not change the question of whether god exists or not. God is a distinctly separate from man. In all scripture of monothesistic religions god is simply a creator that sits back watches humantity and judges mans soul at death. We don't have to wonder why god allows people to suffer. The Pharaohs of Egypt being exploited in our museums. His body and tomb open for all people to see. The Hashish. That hash. You don't wan't to allow them to get a hold of your mind to ya'. You know that marijuana. You don't whant them to get control of your mind. You can smoke tha' hash, but, you don't wan't them to get ahold of your mind do ya'. Pride you took. Pride you feel. Do I see faith in your Eyes? Never you hear the discouraging lies. Do I hear faith in your dries? Broken is the promise. No No you no no wanna' listen to tha' funkmaster de la' street and take hold de' yo'. no no.

[FrenchInhale]

You are ignorant to the circumstances of anybodies life on this board, maybe he lives with a foster family, maybe his dad is a homosexual, maybe his mom works 12 hours a day at a gas station to support the family...maybe he got a laptop computer for free after attending a seminar that was paid for by the state. Maybe he has a free trial from an internet service provider. Perhaps he is accessing the internet at the local library. Maybe he cleared out his bank account and spent all the money on crack and cough medicine.

Sure someones always gonna have it worse than you, but does that mean you have no right to complain or question the existence of god?
If you got stabbed in the back and paralyzed from the waste down I guess you should just keep your mouth shut and be thankful that you didn't get gang raped and shot in the head right?


Exactly. I would never complain about what happened to me. And what is wrong with living with a foster family, having a gay father, getting a free laptop (mine was free), having a library you can go to...... the point is that someone has it worse than you so you have no right to complain... I would never complain no matter what circumstance I was in.. I know myself.. and i know hwat I would do.

[GHoSToKeR]

if he exists, then im going to hell

if he doesnt then im not

either way, i dont give a shit

[Set the Truth Free]

Maybe the reason Christianity is being slammed is because it's something that people actually have the freedom to do; before, they would have been labelled a satanist, dressed in chains and sentenced. I'm afraid to say that Christianity is also, for me, a somewhat irritating religion.
I don't mind Christians, mind you- I mind the fact that they see fit to tell me, quite conversationally, that I'll burn in hell if I don't immediately conform to the will of the Church and Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. All the little offsets of Catholicism- Jewdaism (sp?), Jahovah's Witnesses, Protestants, whatever, are also (for me) classified under the same banner because they're essentially the same religion with a minute difference (I.e., Jesus didn't carry the cross, someone else did). I've read the bible, I've been to churches, and frankly, it doesn't interest me.

Here's an interesting tidbit that I may or may be penalized for. Someone earlier touched on the subject but didn't tread too far, so here I go: You know Christmas? It's not a Christian holiday, sorry to say. And if you want to contradict me by saying it is, then you can happily explain what elves, mistetoe, reindeer, santa clause and evergreen trees have to do with the birth of a miracle-worker, aka Jesus Christ? Halloween and Easter are also pagan holidays. Again, tell me what rabbits have to do with the rebirth of Christ, three days after his crucifiction. See, it would have been very bad for Christians to deem pagan holidays as non-celebrational. (Pagans were the majority, not the minority). Instead, Christians decided to keep most of the holidays, just call them something a little different.

Eastre (Or Easter): It was a celebration! For what? Why, the return of spring, of course! Pagans went out, grabbed a bunch of rabbits and roasted them up in a number of imaginative ways for a grand feast. Nowadays, seeing as it would be sort of detrimental on the rabbit population, chocolate versions of the floppy-eared mammal are used instead. Which is fine with me, because I like chocolate. The rabbit and the egg are both symbols of fertility, so giving someone an egg is reminiscent of wishing them to have many children. In some pagan societies, lots are also drawn to match men and women for a little fun afterwards. Bonfires would be lit to celebrate the return of the sun god as well. (Ever lit a candle during Easter? That's what it symbolizes!)

All Hallow's Eve (Or Halloween): Satanists, druids and witches alike celebrate this day as the New Year because satan's powers are apparently at their highest on this day. :confused: I, myself am more familiar with the tradition of dressing up in the most horrific costumes in order to do one of two things; (1) trick the spirits of the dead into thinking you are a spirit so they won't possess your body, and (2) Scare the spirits away by being more scary than they are. Food was left on the doorstep to appease the spirits as well, and if really poor people came to take the candy instead, why get upset? Hence, dressing up in costumes and going door to door for food.

And last, but not least...

Saturnalia (or Christmas)
*Tidbit Alert!!* Jesus was born in August. The Wise Men arrived at his door, following a star (the planet jupitar) around the middle of December. Need porrf? The shepards were watching over their flocks at night when Jesus was born. Flocks aren't kept outside for six months of the year due to the cold- December being one of them.

Saturnalia is a celebration honouring the Sun God. In the beginning, the Sun God defeated the evil dude (I can't recall his name) and all was well. But each year, the Evil Dude regained strength, and the Sun God was pulled into a battle with him; thus, the sun 'vanished' (or didn't give off as much heat), and winter came about. The celebrations held two meanings- one was to honour the sun god and his battle. The second meaning of the celebration was because the pagans believed what they did now would represent the rest of the year; eating lots now means they would eat lots for the remainder of the year. Thus, the gluttany of X-mas became a tradition. (I use X-mas as opposed to Saturnalia because it's a habit; no one would know what I was talking about otherwise.)
Caroling: Originally called mummers, they originated in Rome where they donned costumes and went door-to-door, entertaining their neighbours with singing.
Evergreen: Trees were brought into the home and decorated with gilded food (nuts, berries and apples) and such to show that winter would not last forever; the evergreen demonstrated the resilience of nature, and the soon-to-be crops that would grow again. The decorations were to show that food would soon grow again.
Misteltoe: A fertility ritual, much like the giving of an Easter Egg. Mistetoe, which could grow without roots, was another sign of the resilience of nature; it was hung inside the house as a reminder.
Gifts: Who can forget presents? Children were offered as gifts to the Sun God, because it was said he liked children. More often, criminals were sacrificed in giant cages shaped like animals, which is more to my liking. Before anyone gets disgusted, God could ask for human sacrifices, so why can't the Sun God?
Wreaths: Made of mistetoe (already explained that) and berries (red was a sacred colour; red was the colour of blood, after all).
Other Tidbits: when Santa Clause began to become adapted again, the stories travelled to two places; one in which there were plenty of reindeeer. Hence, a sleigh being pulled by reindeer. Some homes were built into the ground, and the only way to get into the houses were through the top of the house- or, the 'chimmney'. (Santa Clause was banned by a Belgian priest because he was "too pagan" as a symbol.)
Santa Clause: Has many names. Saint Nick was indeed a charitable Christian man, but he was preceeded by Nicholas, a crafty being who left presents under the tree. More presently, Satan Clause is the modern take on Odin (or Woden), a mythical man with a flowing white beard who crossed the skies on his faithful steed, the eight-legged horse. In Holland, he became Sinterklaas. Migration occured, and North America renamed him Santa Clause, then made him rolly, polly and jolly.
Elves: Erm, I can't recall what they were, except they were the herbalists and midwives of the Big People (us humans) who became hunted down during the Christian Witch Hunts (which interestingly enough occur in a time when the church was beginning to lose power)

Forgive me if I've left anything out, but I'm exhausted and I need sleep!! Hope this little entry interests some people.


PS: It was said, in a book I read, that the Gods of the old religions become the Devils of the New religions. Would you know that Satan bears a remarkable resemblance to the Sun God? Just thought I'd point that out. Good night!

[GHoSToKeR]

very interesting, Set The Truth Free, thanks :)

I knew some of what you have just said, but not all of it.. Most of that will be ignored anyway.. People who are too stuck in their beliefs always ignore the truth.. *sigh*

[mr chinnery]

'Science can not even come close to answering every question and explaining everything'.

Comes a lot closer than Christianity does. If everyone had that attitude, we'd still be taught that the sun goes round the earth.

[mr chinnery]

Also, Elves around during Christian witch hunts? What the fuck? Elves are legendary man.

[Set the Truth Free]

I should have specified about the elves. They've always been around as mischievious little cirtters, but didn't gain much fame until J.R. Tolkien's the Lord of the Rings gave them a little spotlight.

By elves, I meant "Little people" (that's what they're called in history, anyways), abd they're not necessarily the same things as elves- they're just, well, little people. After the witch hunts and around the time that X-mas was gaining more fame, people were like, "Dude! Where'd the little people go?!" so stories were made up to say that the little people went off to live in safety with Santa Clause. And because we associate the characteristics of elves and little people, it was only natural that the Little people would become known as elves, rather than little people...sighs. I guess that sounded kind of lame, but that's my attempt at clarifying.

[bruiser]

i used to be a christian and now im a agnostic. i lost my faith in god due to mostly the bad things i see happening all around the world.

i have a question to all christians how do you reconcile a belief in a merciful god with the millions of children dying of aids in africa and the innocent people all over the world who suffer and die needlessly? how does a child dying of starvation fit into gods plan? every christian rants against those who support reproduction rights as 'baby killers' why dont you rant and rave against god who allows millions of children to die from hunger and disease daily?



Blame it on god how typical,why not ask why don't we all pich in and help,lets feed the famine,lets stop the war's! it's not god ,it's man who is the problem,free will,infact if we did what god wanted us to do everyone would be fead and no war!............out of billions of creatures on earth humans are the only specie's of creatures out ofd tune with everything,so how the hell is it's gods fault animals are all int6une with it's exsistence it's man who is fuxcked.........don't blame god for somethiong we choose to stand by and let happen!

[juggalo420]

Blame it on god how typical,why not ask why don't we all pich in and help,lets feed the famine,lets stop the war's! it's not god ,it's man who is the problem,free will,infact if we did what god wanted us to do everyone would be fead and no war!............out of billions of creatures on earth humans are the only specie's of creatures out ofd tune with everything,so how the hell is it's gods fault animals are all int6une with it's exsistence it's man who is fuxcked.........don't blame god for somethiong we choose to stand by and let happen!
i dont blame anything on god cause hes not real. i dont blame fictional characters. i was making the point that belief in a merciful god is contradicted by the facts of life, such as war, famine and disease.