gun control (really)

[slipknotpsycho]

LEAVE OUT INSULTS, MAKE YOUR ARGUMENT, BUT BE CIVIL.

i made this thread cuz it's obvious everyone has their peice to speak on this, especially after today's events. so bring those arguments here... from this point on, lets leave the VT thread alone, other then to express condolonces or share stories relating to it (family members, friends, ect directly involved in the event)

there's a good possibility alot of people lost someone today, and that thread shouldn't be continually litered with arguments that have nothing really to do with the devestation.... i'm sure it hurts/angers those people that they may have lost someone, and all that's going on in the thread is THIS discussion...

so bring it here, but keep it civil.. if you got something to say, bring it here... (mods i dunno if you can, but if you could, move all that crap here... or atleast from this point on... i really honestly feel everyoen who even knew anyone there....)

[Psycho4Bud]

Because of the nature of this thread combined with todays events I moved this into politics.........lets try to keep this civil.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[xxxhazexxx]

sorry for being an arse but what happend that bad slipknotpsycho:(

[Diary of a Madman]

yuck........I don't think Im going to change anyones opinion on this one, and you arent going to change mine.......too much typing anyways.

I smell a shit storm a-brewin.

[higher4hockey]

"when guns are out-lawed only out-laws will have guns"

its the same with weed, i dont see how any pot smoker after seeing the damage prohibtion has done, can honestly say that we need to get rid of guns. i own many guns, i am a responsible gun owner. why should i have to give up my guns because a few bad apples use them for harm?

[xxxhazexxx]

i just watch the cnn report them poor peeps i dont know what to say sad days:( :( :(

[pwn3dy0]

I think you gun grabbers are missing the big picture. The number of people that have been disarmed and massacred by their own governments is exponentially higher than the number of people that have been killed by common criminals armed with guns. The real threat comes from agents of the State, not Jamal mugging you for your wallet. This should be the main focus of any anti-victim-disarmament argument.

That being said, Having a gun on Virginia Tech campus was a crime. Therefore, students couldn't defend themselves. All they could do is call 911 and wait for the cops who stayed outside and hid behind trees instead of trying to find the gunman.

If the students were allowed to be own a firearm the casualities would be reduced greatly.

[Fengzi]

I support logical gun control. By that I mean a background check, waiting period for purchasing, and something along the lines of a yearly proof of ownership/re-registration of a person's guns. I also think there's no need for a person to own an M-16 or AK-47, regardless of whether or not they're fully automatic or otherwise. I am sensible enough, however, to realize that making guns illegal is not the answer. Maybe if we did it 100, or even 50, years ago but now there are just too many out there. Like the saying goes, if owning a gun is a crime, only the criminals will have guns.

[ATrain]

I don't know much about gun control but I know something needs to change. I don't want to strip people of their right to arms but I think I heard on BBC World today that there have been 19 fatal school shootings in the past ten years :(

I would just like to see an end to gun violence, that is all it comes down to for me :hippy:

[guitar_player882006]

As far as I'm concerned gun control is load of BS. Maybe that's because I'm on the good side. I respect all my firearms with the up most respect, including that they're secured properly, seperated from any ammo, and ALWAYS empty. Except for the home defense weapon, that stays loaded, but in a safe. It has been proven in states that have looser gun control laws there is a LOWER rate of crime. This is something that the media normally tends to hide under the rug. Just my $.o2

[AsianStoner420]

Some people own guns for their own protection, like me I own a 50 Caliber Desert Eagle, but i can assure that im not goin around the park shooting random peoples like a fuckin idiot....i know its illegal and deff. risky but i gotta protect myself,..

[Marijuana connoisseu]

Perhaps this is a good thread to insert the Virginia Tech shootings that happened today.

The top news headlines on current events from Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/)

[guitar_player882006]

No offense asian stoner, but the Desert Eagle certainly isn't mean to be a self defence gun. A self defence gun would be either a smaller caliber semi auto, such as a 9mm-.45 acp. Or for a home defense gun a short length pump action shotgun, I prefer my mossberg 500 20 gauge. The DE has far to much penetration. if you miss that bullet would easily go through walls, and endanger innocent bystanders. Not to mention that follow up shots wouldn't exist, it would take too long to regather yourself, not to mention you'd be def.

[Scarlet Sky]

Perhaps this is a good thread to insert the Virginia Tech shootings that happened today.

The top news headlines on current events from Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/)

perhaps you should read the introductory post in this one...

[AsianStoner420]

yeah if ur lack in experience that would be deff. it,...

[Scarlet Sky]

i personally own three guns; my brothers have enough arms to supply a militia. i believe that we will soon have need to protect ourselves, and our guns will be our only defense.

[FreeVenice]

I feel that CA has a decent gun law. I think it shoulds be tighter though. I mean I bought a 12 gadge at Big 5 (sporting goods) same day. I say, now it sounds crazy, Put tracking devises on all firearms. Shit if they could invent something that tells them when and where it is fired. I don't think it is an invasion of pirvacy if it saves a life. And for all the hunters and Skeet shooters out there, you would have to just give notice before hand. It could work. . .

[brewdy]

common guitar... a 45 acp ...small caliber semi-auto, just hope the person
shootin' at you is a baad shot (like most people) otherwise ......

[Diary of a Madman]

"when guns are out-lawed only out-laws will have guns"

its the same with weed, i dont see how any pot smoker after seeing the damage prohibtion has done, can honestly say that we need to get rid of guns. i own many guns, i am a responsible gun owner. why should i have to give up my guns because a few bad apples use them for harm?

3 cheers for common sense. Hey everyone, is weed legal where you live? Oh, ok. So what happens whne guns are illegal?

So, my mom should give up her firearm she travels state to state with, because then, since they are illegal, the guy that was gonna rob/rape my mother will be like "oh shit, I forgot to turn in my illegal handgun I was gonna rape this cracker woman with".....

Somebody in a country that has a full-on gun ban speak up (I believe Australia is one), tell us what its really like with your massive influx of home invasion robberies, so these utopians that have never been in a life or death struggle can stop telling us to let ourselves be attacked.

All of the convenient little statistics dont do much for me. In Florida, EVERYONE I know is armed, mom, dad, friends, sister, etc.....No gun accidents yet, but my sister held her gun up to the back window of her car when she was being followed really close by a car full of gangstas in the middle of nowhere that were fucking with her (a bit before everyone had a cellphone). They were coming up on her ass and trying to hit her car. My mother has shot a giant fucking water moccasin in our backyard that would kill our dog when she was by herself. My dad pulled a gun on a group of guys that were surrounding his car at a gas station at night. They were asking him for a few bucks to go to miami, trying to get him to pull his wallet out. They surrounded his car and wouldnt let him backup, well, guess what the fuck made them change their minds to let him go????? Oh yeah, here in Jacksonville, someone dies at a gass station almost every night. Someone got shot this week helping a car in the middle of the road with its flashers on, next to a gas station in the bad part of town.

THE END

[slipknotpsycho]

Perhaps this is a good thread to insert the Virginia Tech shootings that happened today.

The top news headlines on current events from Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/)

that's what started this thread.... this thread was made, cuz everyone was piling gun control arguments in a thread originally intended to express sympathies and share stories...

[guitar_player882006]

Brewdy.....I don't understand what your trying to say. Are you against the .45, or the smaller calibers? Or are you against guns all together.

[Gatekeeper777]

I once read a bumper sticker that said: People with guns are citizens.
People without guns are subjects.
I truely believe the ONLY reason as to why there has never been a major war over here in over 100 years is because the people are armed.
The first thing hitler did was confiscate all the guns.
If the man didnt have a gun he would have used a bomb.
I dont mean to be cruel but if he would have used a knife and stabbed people to death in the chest killing them at random should we then ban knives?
How ill I butter my dinner roll? A spoon? Now who ever heard of that?.!

[slipknotpsycho]

No offense asian stoner, but the Desert Eagle certainly isn't mean to be a self defence gun. A self defence gun would be either a smaller caliber semi auto, such as a 9mm-.45 acp. Or for a home defense gun a short length pump action shotgun, I prefer my mossberg 500 20 gauge. The DE has far to much penetration. if you miss that bullet would easily go through walls, and endanger innocent bystanders. Not to mention that follow up shots wouldn't exist, it would take too long to regather yourself, not to mention you'd be def.

i'm afriad i agree on this point... a DE is an offensive assault weapon.. not a defensive weapon.... there is literally no argument to own such a gun for defense.... (except the my dick is bigger rule, but that never works... i can promise i can get 3 shots off with a 9mm centermast, while you're still trying to fire the 2nd shot while very possibly missing the first) that'd be like arguing a .50 barrett is for hunting bigger game... or the .50 barrett semi is cuz you have bad aim....

it's your choice ultimately tho, and you make your own choices... so don't think i'm telling you to get rid of it or some other shit... just saying i agree with this point of view... there really is no reason to own a .50 DE for defense (if anything, you could get the .44) if you miss, you are putting other people's lives in danger.. matter of fact, if you don't hit a very thick body part, you're still risking other's lives... an arm is not gonna stop that bullet...

[JackdaWack]

dont forget its in our constitutional rights to bear arms...

People kill people, not guns.

Many people like to blame things like this on gun control, maybe if we all stopped being ruthless pieces of shit, people wouldnt have to make there point using guns.

Just like columbine... do we really need to take the extremes to show the mistreatment of people.

Things like this shouldnt open our eyes to gun control, it should open our eyes to the way people are treated in our society.

No offense to people who dont agree with me, but if your really thing gun control is the problem then your missing the whole point.

At any point in time past present or future, any one can get a gun legally or illegally, gun control wont stop people from obtaining guns, we should take the time now to reflect on how we should treat people, like human beings, were all the same, who is to say you better then another, or put some one down.

If you have to make your point using a gun, then im sure you've tried other means of persuasion.

To be honest im surprised there arent more people showing up to schools with guns the way kids treat eachother these days

[higher4hockey]

guns arent the problem, people's hate, anger, and jealousy are.


'its not the heat, its the humidity. its not the hate, its the stupidity.'

[medicinal]

All they could do is call 911 and wait for the cops who stayed outside and hid behind trees instead of trying to find the gunman.

And there you go. the cops are not there to protect you. They are there to catch the perpertrater after the fact. In all the school shootings I've seen, the cops hide behind cars or trees or block walls, but don't try and stop the mayhem. They usually know that the perp will shoot himself when he's done, so they don't have to take any risk. If a cop would have burst in after hearing the first shot, who knows how many lives would have been saved. Me, I have a carry permit although I seldom carry. sometimes I'll take it in the truck if I'm going into a bad part of town or out late at night, a rare occurence. This re-inforces my opinion of cops as chickenshits. I'll bet one of those soldiers that are in Iraq would have gone in there and taken him out, If I had the body armor the cops have, I might have given it a try. You can't disarm America, too many guns. There will always be crazies, and just like the soldiers in Iraq, you take your chances daily, only our odds are much better.

[Diary of a Madman]

I don't know much about gun control but I know something needs to change. I don't want to strip people of their right to arms but I think I heard on BBC World today that there have been 19 fatal school shootings in the past ten years :(

I would just like to see an end to gun violence, that is all it comes down to for me :hippy:


I will try not to jump down your throat, but what does this mean exactly?

You dont know what you are talking about, but, you want to drasticly change society as we know it, you know, because thats what some cool kids at a college campus, and a dike in a pants suit on TV said. How trendy. I have no idea what im talking about, but my opinion should be forced on others and their ways of life changed.

19 shootings in ten years? what does that even mean? Do you mean accidents? Im sure that more than 19 people have died in the past 1 year from auto-errotic asphixiation. 19 deaths in 10 years is supposed to hurt the anti-gun control argument? Cops kill more innocent bystanders than that every year as well, so lets get rid of our guns and wait for the moustache patrol to save us, because we are so fucking helpless. But hey, at least I seem cool now to some of my peers.

[FreeVenice]

There's alot of honor in a knife fight, death doesn't have to be the only way. A persons pride now a days is far to inflated, including my own. I own two firearms at the moment, one of which is not licenced. Like I said I bought it at a sporting good store whith no paper work. They were also selling M1 working replicas. But if you were to count all the weapons in my apartment it would be up near the 50's, with my knife collection and other self-defence items. Guns are just the biggest enemy because it is a cowards way of attack. Self defence is one thing, if a guy is coming at you and he is three times your size, you might have to put one in his leg. It should be a last resort in defence, nothing more. . .


I have a batton that is illegal in some states, because it can be consealed. . . In it's smallest form it is still much larger than my HK, but last time I checked my gun has a much larger range. Guns need to be a concern, wouldn't you be worried if no one was talking about how dangerous a gun is?

[JackdaWack]

Oh yeah... a gun is gun. Does it matter how big it is? U guys talk about shotguns like there a little 9mm or something. when a shotty can put a hole in a wall the size of a basketball. Either way they all have the potential to kill. Yeah a desert eagle is powerful, but its also more intimidating so maybe u wont even have to shoot it.

Personally i dont think it matters, if it were up to me i would have an AR-15 sitting under my pillow.

[thcbongman]

If Virginia didn't close the loophole allowing people to carry guns on holsters and openly, this shit wouldn't have happened. The asian guy would've been shot before he could've killed all this people........

Gun Control simply doesn't work. Allowing people to have guns is control.

[Diary of a Madman]

Now, dicks have drive and clarity of vision, but they are not clever. They smell pussy and they want a piece of the action. And you thought you smelled some good old pussy, and have brought your two small mincey faggot balls along for a good old time. But you've got your parties mangled up. There's no pussy here, just a dose that'll make you wish you were born a woman. Like a prick, you are having second thoughts. You are shrinking, and your two little balls are shrinking with you. And the fact that you've got "Replica" written down the side of your gun...And the fact that I've got "Desert Eagle point five O"...Written down the side of mine...Should precipitate your balls into shrinking, along with your presence. Now... Fuck off!

[Gatekeeper777]

maybe an HK9 would fit better. or an uzi. or micro uzi

[medicinal]

A gun is only as dangerous as the person weilding it. If you are half smart, you keep your guns locked away from children and only use them for self protection or hunting if thats your bag. I don't hunt. I believe the animals deserve a fair chance, and since they can't shoot back, I don't shoot them. A human threatening me with a gun is another story, I don't really know the ending to it, but I would try and survive. I've been told that the army went to the .45ACP auto in WWII because it would knock an enemy coming into your foxhole back out. That is my main hand gun.

[FreeVenice]

Now, dicks have drive and clarity of vision, but they are not clever. They smell pussy and they want a piece of the action. And you thought you smelled some good old pussy, and have brought your two small mincey faggot balls along for a good old time. But you've got your parties mangled up. There's no pussy here, just a dose that'll make you wish you were born a woman. Like a prick, you are having second thoughts. You are shrinking, and your two little balls are shrinking with you. And the fact that you've got "Replica" written down the side of your gun...And the fact that I've got "Desert Eagle point five O"...Written down the side of mine...Should precipitate your balls into shrinking, along with your presence. Now... Fuck off!

who are you directing that at?

o wait nvm. . . Lock Stock right?

[JackdaWack]

Nah that would be snatch in the bar with the replicas!! ahahah!

[guitar_player882006]

Oh yeah... a gun is gun. Does it matter how big it is? U guys talk about shotguns like there a little 9mm or something. when a shotty can put a hole in a wall the size of a basketball. Either way they all have the potential to kill. Yeah a desert eagle is powerful, but its also more intimidating so maybe u wont even have to shoot it.

Personally i dont think it matters, if it were up to me i would have an AR-15 sitting under my pillow.

I said that a shotgun was a good home defense gun, because it has limited penetration. Unlike the M16 which shoots a .223 Full Metal Jacket, which could easily pass through many walls.

[JackdaWack]

if any one in here seriously thinks that gun control is the main problem of people killing echother.... i dont even know what to say...open your eyes.

Canadians...how many gun related deaths are there in canada a year..?
And im sure your gun laws are half as short as the US laws.

Take into concideration alll the other places on earth whom have little gun control, and whom have like 10% of the US ratings of death due to guns. It a mear illusion to mask the real facts that, we cannot control people in this county.

[JackdaWack]

I said that a shotgun was a good home defense gun, because it has limited penetration. Unlike the M16 which shoots a .223 Full Metal Jacket, which could easily pass through many walls.

I agree with your statement fully.
But a spread shot cannot be aimed precisely at anyone, didnt dick chaney shoot some guy with a shot gun hunting...?

Anyway sorry for the confusion

I good home defense gun would be a typical 9mm barreta.
Im way to small for a DE so i wouldnt bother, i mean if u own a DE u gotta have some serious muscle just to fire it.

[slipknotpsycho]

I agree with your statement fully.
But a spread shot cannot be aimed precisely at anyone, didnt dick chaney shoot some guy with a shot gun hunting...?

Anyway sorry for the confusion

I good home defense gun would be a typical 9mm barreta.
Im way to small for a DE so i wouldnt bother, i mean if u own a DE u gotta have some serious muscle just to fire it.

that's from his own idiocracy....

YouTube - Lewis Black-Hunting With Dick Cheney(stand-up comedy) (http://youtube.com/watch?v=jNcnubZyJpI)

he describes what happened quite well actually..

[guitar_player882006]

Well see spread shot only spreads at long distances. So for home defense your spread is only going to be maybe 3-4 inches in diameter....if that. Unless your gun has a spreader choke tube in it. Which is rifled, which causes the shot to spin, and centrifugal force will then spread them out farther. The advantage is that it has much more stoping power. And yeah he did, but that wasn't due to the shotguns spread, that was due to chenney's ignorence of other shooters.

[JackdaWack]

every one has there dream gun to own, u wouldnt pick up a gun u couldnt fire unless your, well, a moron, and in fact if bystanders are hit, or killed, u should be brought up on murder, simply becuase how can u fire a gun u cant aim. I would pick a mp5 honestly as my weapon of choice. But thats just me. Now the point of some one breaking into your house is to take the offense and push him out. If there is a wall between me and him, id like it to go through.

The fact shouldnt be the gun, it should be the person using it.

[JunkYard]

I say even the playing field...We should ALL own guns!!!

my list:

.45 - bullnose
.357
.38
9mm
40 cal
12 guage
.270
.243

I'm able to carry concealed, but I only carry my bullnose .45 (Boot) and my .40 cal (shoulder) on "occasion" The rest I keep locked up in a gun safe.

Gun control is BS!! I understand automatic weapons, but rifles, shotguns, and handguns should always be legal, IMO.


Junk~

[FreeVenice]

Nah that would be snatch in the bar with the replicas!! ahahah!

Blast! the dog right. . .

[guitar_player882006]

I was reading an article not too long ago that was talking about a town (can't remember where) that was planing on making a law that EVERY home needed at least one firearm. Unless there was a serious reason not to have one, such as religion or something like that. Thoughts?

[slipknotpsycho]

I was reading an article not too long ago that was talking about a town (can't remember where) that was planing on making a law that EVERY home needed at least one firearm. Unless there was a serious reason not to have one, such as religion or something like that. Thoughts?

just seems like they're setting everyone up for more taxes somehwere in the future.... or by some other means, to raise money for the city (city permits needed, something... sorry but my frist instinct to anything a government type thing does, the first thing that comes to mind is some hidden way to make money off it's peopel)

[JunkYard]

gun ownership should remain a right. you can't hardly force someone to own a gun...

[JackdaWack]

U cant force people to own something. Besides why would u provoke people.

[ATrain]

Question for gun owners. I hear that most gun owners purchase their gun for protection, which even though I'm not a gun fan I can totally understand :) , but my question is this...

How many of you have used your gun (Could be just pulling it out, not necessarily firing it) in the defense of yourself or someone you love?

Kinda curious :rastasmoke:

[higher4hockey]

ive never pulled a gun on anyone. but its better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

[JunkYard]

same here... most people don't even know I carry, and I plan on keeping it that way.

[guitar_player882006]

Well I have never used my home defense gun for defense. I hope I' never put into that position. I buy most of guns for sporting. Mostly trap and skeet, and I just recently bought a remington 700 .30-06 for target shooting.

[guitar_player882006]

correction "I hope I'm never put into that position"

[skatin_foo15]

I dunno but in my opinion, the people that think guns that should be banned in the US, really arent thinking too straight. Think of how many people that wouldnt give up there guns, it just wouldnt work. Incidents like Waco and Ruby Ridge would happen daily if the government tried enforcing it.

[medicinal]

ive never pulled a gun on anyone. but its better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Very true. Just the fact that I have one handy gives me peace of mind, it may be false peace because you still have to get to your gun if someone stomps in your front door, and having grandkids around, I can't keep it that close, but if an intruder knew that all law abiding citizens could not have guns, don't you think there would be a lot more home invasions? The fear of not knowing what is on the other side of that door keeps a lot of scumbags at bay.

[halo]

People can not be free unless they are allowed to bear arms. Look at what hitler did in the 30s. He took all guns away under the guise of more safety. And then he killed 6 million jews because they were law abiding and had no guns to defend themselves with.

If you outlaw guns only the criminals will have guns because they don't care. Like in england, law abiding citizens dont have guns but some criminals do. How is a law abiding englishman supposed to defend himself against a dude with a gun when he doesnt have one?

[slipknotpsycho]

Question for gun owners. I hear that most gun owners purchase their gun for protection, which even though I'm not a gun fan I can totally understand :) , but my question is this...

How many of you have used your gun (Could be just pulling it out, not necessarily firing it) in the defense of yourself or someone you love?

Kinda curious :rastasmoke:

i don't own one currently, but i do want to, i like guns they can be great fun at the target range (i've always been into guns, my grandma gave me my frist pellet gun at 5) tho i see them as a last resort, mostly i see them as a form of entertainment... it takes awhile to learn to shoot a gun, and accurately... believe me i'ts not just pointing in the general direction... for long shots you gotta take into account speed/velocity of the bullet, and recoil for example.. shooting a pellet gun accurately over 30 yards is even harder, since it's weaker...

i've known alot of people (and it's evident durring shootouts) that people think you just point a barrel at someone and pull the trigger and that solves the problem...

shooting a gun is easy.. shooting a gun accurately takes a certain ammount of skill.... for example, point a 9mm at someone's head a bit downrange, and that bullet is gonna sail right over their head... the recoil is actually amazing o.0 it's hard to think such a small device has such recoil power...

anyways, i've known countless people that owned guns, and thank whoever.. they haven't had to pull one on anyone yet... that's the ideal situation.. as H4H said.. it's better to have it and not need it, then to not have it, and need it....

[slipknotpsycho]

People can not be free unless they are allowed to bear arms. Look at what hitler did in the 30s. He took all guns away under the guise of more safety. And then he killed 6 million jews because they were law abiding and had no guns to defend themselves with.

If you outlaw guns only the criminals will have guns because they don't care. Like in england, law abiding citizens dont have guns but some criminals do. How is a law abiding englishman supposed to defend himself against a dude with a gun when he doesnt have one?

tehre's apparently a couple here who expect you to run up on them and start beating their ass... or say "hey! he doesn't have a gun.. i guess i need to put this away and make things fair"

[twentysac]

gun control would never work in america. its that simple. it dosen't matter if your with it or against it you have to admit its impossible do disarm a country that took up arms, personal weapons not military/militia issue, and made this an actual country. and just to touch on the whole VT issue. its a very sad day all around. not only did more than 30 young people lose there lives, hundreds more were torn to peices. these were people that were just begining to figure life out, and were getting ready to shift it in to high gear. but not only is it a sad day for the victims, its a sad day for the young man that felt he had no other option then to take the lives of his peers and eventually his own. i know the general consensus is going to be that he was scum, and i in no way condone anything he did, but when you get to the point of doing that it has to be a very lonley place. not only do i share my condolences with the victims and their families, but my heart goes out to his family as well.

[higher4hockey]

im glad most of you are in favor of guns. that b eing said, all you gun owners need to give this some attention.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/409898348


any PA gun owners out there need to call the state rep.

HOUSE BILL 30 P.N. 55 (http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&sessYr=2007&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=0030&pn=0055)

[Diary of a Madman]

Question for gun owners. I hear that most gun owners purchase their gun for protection, which even though I'm not a gun fan I can totally understand :) , but my question is this...

How many of you have used your gun (Could be just pulling it out, not necessarily firing it) in the defense of yourself or someone you love?

Kinda curious :rastasmoke:

I gave you 3 examples.......

Not only that, I asked you some questions regarding your ignorant statements and you just disappeared for a while, go back and read.

Dad pulled gun on robbery attempt, mom shot poisonous water snake in back yard, Sister stopped attempted rape robbery by holding up gun in rear window.

Actually everyone......my very good friends father was a clerk at a convenience store in the 70's. He got robbed, was shot, shot back, killed the guy, and almost died as ambulance came. He said he knew that if he fell asleep he would die.........now go repeat what others tell you so you can feel like you know something. You are cool now. You have an opinion about a subject now.

[Psycho4Bud]

Lets keep it civil........it's been a busy day in here and I don't need it to get busier. Thank you for your cooperation!:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[fishman3811]

Canadian here well im very sorry to hear what happened at VT its a sad day.Gun control will never work in your country because too many people are armed so what do you do?Idont know but im glad our country has strict gun laws.But we do get the odd shooter at a school just like you guys.3 in the past 20 years i think.But not many deaths are caused by guns in Canada maybe 50-100 a year but i really dont know i can speak for my city which has about 1 or 2 a year with a population of 650,000 people some years none.most of the killings are done by knife or domestic abuse that kind of thing.The bikers tend to kill each other so thats ok usually with guns.But having a unregistered firearm here is pretty fucking serious the cops dont like you having guns.But hey this is Canada its always been like this so we are use to it,and in my city there is not alot of home invasions either so your pretty safe here i rarely lock my doors but my 2 big dogs help alot.So again im really sorry for what happened today and you guys do not have an easy answer and i dont think there is one to your problem of gun violence:(

[AlwaysBlazed]

Once I can I'm going to legally purchase a gun, just for protection of course.\\:rastasmoke:

:rastasmoke:

:hippy::wtf:

[VisionaryUrbanTactic]

first off ,lets understand that the 2nd addmendment is shit, and has been shit for about 100-150 years.

when the 2nd addmendment was made, it was not made for you to defend yourself from jamal robbing and ass raping you.

for the history people in here that read the federalist papers, they know one of the biggest concerns of the newly formed usa was a standing army(king george ring a bell?)

the framers understood, that without weapons to defend ourself from outside invasions(and inside ones as well), america would slowly go the way it is going now.

to the few.



now, tell me exactly

if the us government order martial law, and was taking control of it's citizens for no reason.

how would you defend yourself from nato troops with m-16's?


if during the war in iraq, we get invaded by mexico(or whoever)

how would you keep there army off your land and loved ones?

with your 9mm?


against a fully loaded squad?



Origin of the Second Amendment

In 1786, a decade after the Declaration of Independence was signed, the United States existed as a loose national government under the Articles of Confederation. This confederation was perceived to have several weaknesses, among which was the inability to mount a Federal military response to an armed uprising in western Massachusetts known as Shays' Rebellion.

In 1787, to address these weaknesses, the Philadelphia Convention was convened with the charter of amending the Articles. When the convention concluded with a proposed Constitution, those who debated the ratification of the Constitution divided into two camps; the Federalists (who supported ratification of the Constitution) and the Anti-Federalists (who opposed it).

Among their objections to the Constitution, anti-Federalists feared creation of a standing army that could eventually endanger democracy and civil liberties as had happened recently in the American Colonies and Europe. Although the anti-Federalists were ultimately unsuccessful at blocking ratification of the Constitution, through the Massachusetts Compromise they laid the groundwork to insure that a Bill of Rights would be drafted, which would provide constitutional guarantees against encroachment by the government of certain rights.

The Federalists on the other hand held that a Bill of Rights was unnecessary, particularly as the Federal Government could never raise a standard army powerful enough to overcome the militia. Leading Federalist James Madison wrote:

Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops.[7]

Similarly, Federalist Noah Webster wrote:

Tyranny is the exercise of some power over a man, which is not warranted by law, or necessary for the public safety. A people can never be deprived of their liberties, while they retain in their own hands, a power sufficient to any other power in the state.[8]

One example given by Webster of a "power" that the people could resist was that of a standing army:

Another source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States.[9]

The controversy of a standing army for the United States existed in context of the Continental Forces that had won the Revolutionary War which consisted of both the standing Continental Army created by the Continental Congress and of State and Militia Units. In opposition, the British Forces consisted of a mixture of the standing British Army, Loyalist Militia, and mercenaries (e.g., Hessians).

Federalists, on the other hand, believed that federal government must be trusted and that the army and the militias "ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal" of federal government. This belief was fundamentally stated by Alexander Hamilton:

The power of regulating the militia, and of commanding its services in times of insurrection and invasion are natural incidents to the duties of superintending the common defense, and of watching over the internal peace of the Confederacy.[10]

The origin of the Second Amendment also occurred in context of an ongoing debate about "the people" fighting governmental tyranny, (as described by Antifederalists); or the risk of mob rule of "the people", (as described by the Federalists).


if only they knew that, instead of americans(unlike the swiss)being able to fully arm themself(m-16's/army type arms/etc), we would be held to 9mm hand guns and shotguns, of which there is no way the citizens could defend itself against a rogue government.

then we would have seen wording like, "the american citizen possess the right to own any arms the federal government can own."


the 2nd addmendment came from the thought of us not being able to protect ourself(not so much from criminals) but from our own government and other governments.


so, like i said, if you think the 2nd addmendment means anything today, besides keeping the gun rights guys semi happy, then your wrong.


so, when the day comes, and the army is at your door talking martial law, and they have to split up your family and put them in work camps, see how well your 9mm does against a squad of m-16's.


enjoy your imaginary freedoms untill they get taken away for security from the terrorists.

[VisionaryUrbanTactic]

lets go further shall we?


The following COMBAT ARMS SURVEY was sent to Geoff Metcalf by a U.S. Marine, with a (non-anonymous) note explaining that the survey was given May 10, 1994, at the Twenty-nine Palms (CA) Marine base, to a number of Marines from different units which had participated in either: Operation "Just Cause," "Desert Storm" or "Restore Hope."



The following survey questions, except for the last one, were not reprinted in the July 11 New American article. They were forwarded by the magazine to the New Jersey Conservative PAC (NJCPAC, 2 Thornton Lane, Piscataway NJ 08854-5044 ph/fx:908-463-0797), which also reports that preliminary fact-finding at the base indicates that the "surveys came through the chain of command." The questions are reproduced here with NJCPAC's permission.

NJCPAC asks that anyone who knows of other administrations of this or similar COMBAT ARMS SURVEY(s) pls contact them or Congressmen Bob Dornan (ph:202-225-2965) or Duncan Miller (ph:202-225-5672 fx:202-225-0235).



the last question is the only one that really matters


The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, sale transportation, and transfer of all non-sporting firearms. A thirty (30) day amnesty period is permitted for these firearms to be turned over to the local authorities. At the end of this period, a number of citizen groups refuse to turn over their firearms. Consider the following statement: I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. government.


now, most of the people said no to this question, but there are ways around this.

example: most of our armed forces are off fighting terrorism in iraq/iran/etc

a terrorist attack takes place in the us, we are now under martial law.

the government decides to(do a whole crapload of things) lets just say, they wanna implant chips in everyone to keep the terrorists from comming in(sounds good huh)

meanwhile, thousands of americans resist this ideal, some with force(as i would)

now, the president calls in nato to "help keep the peace"


you think those nato "peacekeeping" troops from (anywhere but the us) are gonna have any problems shooting you?

WAKE UP

[medicinal]

the government decides to(do a whole crapload of things) lets just say, they wanna implant chips in everyone to keep the terrorists from comming in(sounds good huh)
meanwhile, thousands of americans resist this ideal, some with force(as i would)
now, the president calls in nato to "help keep the peace"
you think those nato "peacekeeping" troops from (anywhere but the us) are gonna have any problems shooting you? Could happen, I know G.W. could pull that on us, I don't know if the congress would be willing to go along as they get their support from the states, but if the state governments willed it, then you're right, I'd have to break out the secret stash of weaponry. Every adult citizen that is not crazy or a criminal, should be issued an M-16 or an AK-47, I'd prefer the AK as it is indestructable. A deer rifle makes a good sniper rifle, and for close in wet work, you can't beat a shotgun, of course, you should always carry at least two hand guns into combat, one to defend yourself, and one to take yourself out with if being captured by crazies, always save the last bullet for yourself.

[Abunai]

Got to protect yourself in such environments and realities.

[Souproller]

could guns be phased out in us?
i dont know but I find gun laws like yours hard to believe if noone has guns it is surely a lot safer.
YouTube - Pennywise - Homesick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba07TOIV2KQ)

[JackdaWack]

VisionaryUrban Um what?

Yeah i see what your saying.... but the point for us bear arms for what ever reason, has shifted to the protection of ourselves.

I dont know what the hell your rambling on about, why the gov would show up at my door with an an arm telling me to go somewhere? what? this isnt a conspiracy issue duh,

The fact is, we have a right to bear arms, for what ever fucking reason we have to protect our selves, and the gun laws dont limit you to your 9mm, u can purchase assault rifles if u wanted to. You could in fact have an legal gun arsenal.

The point of the 2nd ammendment is for our protection, from anyone, it doesnt limit it to the gov trying to force us to do anything, the law is so we may defend ourselves rightfully, in any situation.

Lets stop thinking about how our government is trying to fuck us over, when there the ones telling us we can own the guns and defend ourselves.

When people stopp rapes and murders becuase they simply have a gun, how can u say the ammendment is twisted?
I think its stupidity to think the ammendment was only made to defend ourselves from governing powers, it so we can protect ourselves in a situation where no one else is able to.

[JackdaWack]

could guns be phased out in us?
i dont know but I find gun laws like yours hard to believe if noone has guns it is surely a lot safer.
YouTube - Pennywise - Homesick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba07TOIV2KQ)

You would be in stict violation of the rights of the poeple in the US.
Not to mention all of the crime that will increase because store owners wont be able to legally defend themselves when some ass hole shows up to robb them with a illegal weapon. The point of guns are for protection, not wars, sorry people think differently, but its people who kill people not guns, its not going to change a damn thing, most killings with guns are done with illegally obtained weapons anyway so does it really matter?

[Psycho4Bud]

I come from a state that is big for hunting.....serves it's purpose keeping the deer numbers thinned out. I'm no hunter so I don't own a rifle or pistol.......BUT I do have a VERY nice stun gun (350,000 Volts) for them "just in case" times in life.:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

[Gatekeeper777]

they want to make yo pay a fee for owning:

The Pennsylvania State Police may charge a fee for each
registration and for each registration renewal under section
6154 (relating to registration of assault weapons).

[medicinal]

I come from a state that is big for hunting.....serves it's purpose keeping the deer numbers thinned out. I'm no hunter so I don't own a rifle or pistol.......BUT I do have a VERY nice stun gun (350,000 Volts) for them "just in case" times in life.:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

I hope it's the kind that shoots out a missle with wires attached, like the cops have, or if you wait untill he gets close enough to reach out and touch him, it may be too late. I prefer the .45 acp colt, the barrel is 5 hundredts less than a half an inch in diameter and looks like a cannon from the business end. It carries enough knockdown power to put a 250 lb man off his feet if you hit center mass and lord knows I hope I never have to use it, but if I do the test for the carry permit details how to do it, 2 in the chest and one in the head. Never shoot to wound, he might survive and come back and kill you.

[fishman3811]

mEDICINAL shoot too kill why waste tax payer money on a trial and jail later on.Here in Canada if we shoot to kill an intruder we will be charged with murder no shit.The intruder has to attack you and cause serious injuries before you can defend yourself otherwise its excessive force and you will be charged with murder.

[skatin_foo15]

Wow VisionaryUrbanTactic we only have 9mm and shotguns? If thats so why can I go to my local pawnshop and buy AK's, SKS's, Tech Nines and such?

[medicinal]

mEDICINAL shoot too kill why waste tax payer money on a trial and jail later on.Here in Canada if we shoot to kill an intruder we will be charged with murder no shit.The intruder has to attack you and cause serious injuries before you can defend yourself otherwise its excessive force and you will be charged with murder.

Like I said, I hope to never have to use a firearm against another human being. That being said, There have been a couple of homicides by gun owners that made the news lately here in Vegas, both times by intruders, the first was a slambang aquittal, the second was a little more involved, but he also got off. the second guy actually shot the perpertrator but didn't kill him and followed him into the street and killed him, that was after enduring a brutal attack. He got to his gun and went after the guy, but got off on some kind of probation. If you kill an intruder, expect to spend at least 10 grand on a lawyer to keep your ass out of prison as D.A.s like to prosecute. Always say nothing to the police without a lawyer, and contend at all times you thought your life or your familys lives were in emminent danger. The carry permit class explains the ramifications of taking another persons life, it is not something to be taken lightly. To be able to carry a concealed weapon actually gives you more authority to shoot someone than the police have, as police must adhere to strict guidelines, and you are considered just a citizen, and not expected to know all the police professionalism that dictates their duty.

[eg420ne]

When Bad People Kill
Bloodbath in Blacksburg
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

The tragic murders of Virginia Tech students, apparently by an insane person, will prompt new attempts to ban private ownership of guns. Once guns are banned, crime will explode. Households and vulnerable members of society will lose the ability to defend, which will invite more intrusions and attacks. Knife crimes will rise as they have in Great Britain.

Gun prohibition will create a new industry for criminals--gun running and black market sales. Police will conduct stings by posing as black market gun dealers and entrap innocent citizens driven by fear and threat to secure means of personal protection.

A large industry of family businesses dedicated to meeting the needs of shooters, who would never shoot at anything but a paper or clay target, will be wiped out. Gun clubs will close their doors.

Collectors of valuable Winchesters and Colts, beautiful pieces of Americana, will have to give them up or be at risk of prison sentences.

Gun banners might be surprised at the number of Americans who provide parts and repairs for firearms that have been out of production for 70 or 80 years. Other businesses provide components from which dedicated hobbyists fashion ammunition that is no longer commercially produced.

Paul Craig Roberts: Bloodbath in Blacksburg (http://www.counterpunch.com/roberts04172007.html)

[Torog]

Howdy slipknot,

VT banned students and faculty from utilizing their concealed-carry permits and actually though that such,was a victory. Just one student or teacher,being armed,would have made all the difference.

Another solution,is what the University of Texas has done,that being their own swat team,that can take down a gunman,without having to wait for the cops to git there.

Clearly,criminals and the criminally dereanged,don't follow gun laws,making schools gun-free zones,is just a big,loud invite to any predator.

Have a good one ...

[JackdaWack]

When Bad People Kill
Bloodbath in Blacksburg
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

The tragic murders of Virginia Tech students, apparently by an insane person, will prompt new attempts to ban private ownership of guns. Once guns are banned, crime will explode. Households and vulnerable members of society will lose the ability to defend, which will invite more intrusions and attacks. Knife crimes will rise as they have in Great Britain.

Gun prohibition will create a new industry for criminals--gun running and black market sales. Police will conduct stings by posing as black market gun dealers and entrap innocent citizens driven by fear and threat to secure means of personal protection.

A large industry of family businesses dedicated to meeting the needs of shooters, who would never shoot at anything but a paper or clay target, will be wiped out. Gun clubs will close their doors.

Collectors of valuable Winchesters and Colts, beautiful pieces of Americana, will have to give them up or be at risk of prison sentences.

Gun banners might be surprised at the number of Americans who provide parts and repairs for firearms that have been out of production for 70 or 80 years. Other businesses provide components from which dedicated hobbyists fashion ammunition that is no longer commercially produced.

Paul Craig Roberts: Bloodbath in Blacksburg (http://www.counterpunch.com/roberts04172007.html)

Im glad some one has a clue about this, or altleast many people do and will stand up for the fact that guns arent the problem.

[fishman3811]

MED yeah the laws sure are fucked up if your being attacked or protecting your family their is no way you should be charged for killing the scum that attacked you.Instead of you having to pay lawyer fees and such the police should be paying you for getting rid of a scum bag.

[Cornelius]

listen folks:

Countries that have stricter gun control have less gun violence. Period. look it up. If you want to decrease gun violence, you must decrease the number of guns out there.

You cannot hunt with a pistol. They are for killing People at close range. does it seem safe to you for millions of people to be carrying person killing machines ? sure, most of them will be safe and responsible, but it only takes a few nutjobs to kill lots of people.

Gun proponents use the argument that guns are for protection. How often are guns used for protection? how many people have used guns in that fashion? Now, how many people have been murdered by guns? do the math. Guns are a net harm to society.

Now I agree that it would be hard as hell to control existing guns, but don't you think it's worth it? I personally do.

[fishman3811]

Cornelius i dont disagree with you but you just opened up a bag of worms bro.

[thcbongman]

listen folks:

Countries that have stricter gun control have less gun violence. Period. look it up. If you want to decrease gun violence, you must decrease the number of guns out there.

You cannot hunt with a pistol. They are for killing People at close range. does it seem safe to you for millions of people to be carrying person killing machines ? sure, most of them will be safe and responsible, but it only takes a few nutjobs to kill lots of people.

Gun proponents use the argument that guns are for protection. How often are guns used for protection? how many people have used guns in that fashion? Now, how many people have been murdered by guns? do the math. Guns are a net harm to society.

Now I agree that it would be hard as hell to control existing guns, but don't you think it's worth it? I personally do.

A country like Britain, which banned guns, have their problem spilled over into non-gun related violent crime, which is higher per capita than the states.

[fishman3811]

thcbongman come on...Im ex british and the violence their is mainly due to soccer violence.Look at Canada if you want to see what gun control is about.

[slipknotpsycho]

When Guns are Banned (http://www.the-eggman.com/rants/gun_ban.html)
BBC News | UK | Handgun crime 'up' despite ban (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm)

[Psycho4Bud]

I hope it's the kind that shoots out a missle with wires attached, like the cops have, or if you wait untill he gets close enough to reach out and touch him, it may be too late. I prefer the .45 acp colt, the barrel is 5 hundredts less than a half an inch in diameter and looks like a cannon from the business end. It carries enough knockdown power to put a 250 lb man off his feet if you hit center mass and lord knows I hope I never have to use it, but if I do the test for the carry permit details how to do it, 2 in the chest and one in the head. Never shoot to wound, he might survive and come back and kill you.

No, the wire style (taser) only delivers 50,000V......I guess up close and personal is more my style. LOL

DAMN DUDE! You may be a peaceful person on the outside but your a full fledge neo-con on the inside. Seems funny to me that the peace lovers that have no fear are the best armed in here.....who lives in fear? NOT I said the man with the stun gun. LOL

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

No, the wire style (taser) only delivers 50,000V......I guess up close and personal is more my style. LOL

DAMN DUDE! You may be a peaceful person on the outside but your a full fledge neo-con on the inside. Seems funny to me that the peace lovers that have no fear are the best armed in here.....who lives in fear? NOT I said the man with the stun gun. LOL

Have a good one!:s4:

Well, I don't think there is that much crime in Wisconson anyway is there? If I lived on a farm, I doubt I'd have need of a Handgun, but I'd definently have a shotgun and a deer rifle. I have a 700 lb fireproof safe that I keep my guns in, so the kids can't get to them. I have enough guns for everyone in my immediate family to have at least two if needed for home defense. I believe in "better safe than sorry", or " better to have a gun than not when needed" I keep one gun out of the safe in a place where the kids do not know and can not get to but I can very easily, just in case, it's my colt .45ACP. I have it loaded with hollow points and it would only take one shot to bring down a crazed 250lb. man on PCP. It's a one shot wonder, you shoot once and wonder where he went. I don't keep a round in the chamber so if by any chance a kid found it (Absolutely no chance) they couldn't chamber a round anyway. Have you ever chambered a .45, takes a bit of strength.

[thcbongman]

thcbongman come on...Im ex british and the violence their is mainly due to soccer violence.Look at Canada if you want to see what gun control is about.

How can you even compare Canada to America. One thing, the density of the population is 3 per mile vs 25 per mile in America. Look for example in Toronto. The crime rate there is comparable to some metropolitan areas in America.

In terms of habitable land, we have more ground to cover. In the countryside, at least in VA and WV there is a strict rule. You trespass, you get shot. It's only fair, because you shouldn't tread on other people's property. I'm sure most non-urban shootings are related to this concept.

When you are aware that people own guns, you think twice about robbing someone house, or harming someone. You never know if someone would end up popping a cap in your ass. This fear is a great deterrent to crime.

[Psycho4Bud]

Well, I don't think there is that much crime in Wisconson anyway is there? If I lived on a farm, I doubt I'd have need of a Handgun, but I'd definently have a shotgun and a deer rifle.

LMAO!!! Talk about a stereotype dude.....yipper, we's all to busy with the cow tippin' contests to be a shootin' at each other. LOL

I don't live in the mean streets of Milwaukee but I'm not out on the farm either. LOL........if someone breaks into my house and I'm here they'll initially notice a very nice collection of knives/swords and accessories on the walls. From there I got my friendly zapper not to mention a mase fogger.

About the ONLY reason I'd be leary of using a pistol is because of stray bullets.....wouldn't want to kill the wrong asshole. But I sure don't deny the right for anyone else to have them.......just a personal choice.

Have a good one!:s4:

[fishman3811]

MED will you be my bodyguard next time i go to Toronto.I can just see it now Rambo protecting little old me lol.......Torontos murder rate is the lowest in Canada per capita .In 1995 Toronto with a population of 2.5 million 78 murders 52 of them gun related.So thats not even close to U.S cities...Sorry i couldnt find any statistics from last year