Bushs' great Iraq Plan [Archive] - Green Grass Forums

medicinal

04-13-2007, 08:32 PM

Divide and Rule: Bush's Doomed Plan for Baghdad
By Robert Fisk, The Independent. Posted April 12, 2007.

Revealed: a new counter-insurgency strategy to carve up the city into sealed areas. The tactic failed in Vietnam. So what chance does it have in Iraq?
Faced with an ever-more ruthless insurgency in Baghdad -- despite President George Bush's "surge" in troops -- US forces in the city are now planning a massive and highly controversial counter-insurgency operation that will seal off vast areas of the city, enclosing whole neighbourhoods with barricades and allowing only Iraqis with newly issued ID cards to enter. The campaign of "gated communities" -- whose genesis was in the Vietnam War -- will involve up to 30 of the city's 89 official districts and will be the most ambitious counter-insurgency programme yet mounted by the US in Iraq.

The system has been used -- and has spectacularly failed -- in the past, and its inauguration in Iraq is as much a sign of American desperation at the country's continued descent into civil conflict as it is of US determination to "win" the war against an Iraqi insurgency that has cost the lives of more than 3,200 American troops. The system of "gating" areas under foreign occupation failed during the French war against FLN insurgents in Algeria and again during the American war in Vietnam. Israel has employed similar practices during its occupation of Palestinian territory -- again, with little success.

But the campaign has far wider military ambitions than the pacification of Baghdad. It now appears that the US military intends to place as many as five mechanised brigades -- comprising about 40,000 men -- south and east of Baghdad, at least three of them positioned between the capital and the Iranian border. This would present Iran with a powerful -- and potentially aggressive -- American military force close to its border in the event of a US or Israeli military strike against its nuclear facilities later this year. More at:AlterNet: Home (http://alternet.org)

higher4hockey

04-13-2007, 08:36 PM

ATrain

04-13-2007, 09:13 PM

A pro-Bush Philly Fan??? Strike one and two my friend :jointsmile:

Psycho4Bud

04-13-2007, 10:21 PM

But the campaign has far wider military ambitions than the pacification of Baghdad. It now appears that the US military intends to place as many as five mechanised brigades -- comprising about 40,000 men -- south and east of Baghdad, at least three of them positioned between the capital and the Iranian border. This would present Iran with a powerful -- and potentially aggressive -- American military force close to its border in the event of a US or Israeli military strike against its nuclear facilities later this year. More at:AlterNet: Home (http://alternet.org)

You mean that we're cutting off Al-Sadr's supply line? How dare we cut off this insurgents rights of blowing up our troops!

Have a good one!:s4:

fishman3811

04-14-2007, 02:35 AM

When American troops leave at least they will be killing each other not American troops.If oil goes through the roof so be it ill drive less who cares, at least no more American kids will be dying.But of course the violence wont stop until you guys are gone.You just need to look at Vietnam to see that.

medicinal

04-15-2007, 04:14 PM

Remember, Viet Nam, the 10,000 day war. There was even a PBS program titled that. That translates into approx. 27 years, God help us if that happens, the draft is a definent possibility. Can you imagine the American public letting that happen. And just think, Viet Nam didn't even have oil. I believe, come to think of it, that Shell Oil had discovered an oil deposit in the Mekong delta, but It turned out to be not that large, although there was talk at the time that the reason we were in Nam was the oil.

medicinal

04-15-2007, 04:17 PM

Psycho4Bud

04-15-2007, 04:47 PM

BTW, for you hard core wingers, I realize that the U.S. was not in Nam for 27 years, that figure encompasses the french and other factions.

"Hard core wingers".......is that hot wings or basic? LOL....I'm a sucker for the hot ones myself!

Ya, just another case of the French waving that white flag and runnin' but unfortunately we were there to deal with their garbage.

Have a good one!:s4:

ATrain

04-15-2007, 05:16 PM

medicinal

04-15-2007, 06:19 PM

"Hard core wingers".......is that hot wings or basic? LOL....I'm a sucker for the hot ones myself!

Ya, just another case of the French waving that white flag and runnin' but unfortunately we were there to deal with their garbage.

Have a good one!:s4:

So, who's garbage are we dealing with in Iraq, could it be the Brits that drew the boundaries of modern Iraq and put three Nations in the pot to boil. Before that, it was generally divided into three areas, Kurdistan to the north, The Sunnis in the middle and the Shiites in the south, pretty much the only way there will ever be a solution to the problem as it exists. No wonder the Brits decided to go with us, they are the main reason that Iraq is such a mess in the first place. You wingers know who you are, just admit that you're wrong and I will accept your apologies,~LOL~.

Psycho4Bud

04-15-2007, 06:31 PM

So, who's garbage are we dealing with in Iraq, could it be the Brits that drew the boundaries of modern Iraq and put three Nations in the pot to boil. Before that, it was generally divided into three areas, Kurdistan to the north, The Sunnis in the middle and the Shiites in the south, pretty much the only way there will ever be a solution to the problem as it exists. No wonder the Brits decided to go with us, they are the main reason that Iraq is such a mess in the first place. You wingers know who you are, just admit that you're wrong and I will accept your apologies,~LOL~.

LMAO!!! Wingers.....classic! Europe is actually the cause of most the shit in the middle east but it's just so easy to blame it on the evil Bush empire. It wasn't the U.S. in the crusades or the raping of their artifacts not to mention what you just brought up.

Just saw on the news about all the probs in Algeria.......does that ring a bell?

Have a good one!:s4:

Markass

04-15-2007, 06:43 PM

ya know, on one hand i kind of wish bush would decide to leave iraq, i cant wait to see what all you bush-haters have to say when iraqis are still killing each other, america still gets attacked by terrorists, and those crazy fucks decide to start burning oil wells again and you all have to walk to your favorite coffee shop for your morning espresso enema.

wait wait...so you're saying that America can not be attacked by terrorists so long as we're in a war with Iraq? Fuck that shit. You're wrong :thumbsup:

MadHatter79

04-15-2007, 06:49 PM

You are pro-Bush and post on a website like this and have a picture of marijuana for your profile pic??? Smoke some more pot buddy, or even better, get off this site and post on foxnews.

medicinal

04-15-2007, 06:53 PM

LMAO!!! Wingers.....classic! Europe is actually the cause of most the shit in the middle east but it's just so easy to blame it on the evil Bush empire. It wasn't the U.S. in the crusades or the raping of their artifacts not to mention what you just brought up.

Just saw on the news about all the probs in Algeria.......does that ring a bell?

Have a good one!:s4:

As you probably know, wingers is the polite term for your positions. If I used the terms that I really thought, I'd be banned from this site for life. I'm trying to keep it civil. BTW I think the crusades were a few years back, ancient history I believe, and oh yeah, IMO, the Bush regime really is an evil empire, one of the most evil I've seen in my short life. Tell me this: outside if just bombing the whole middle east back to the stone age, what is your opinion on solving the dillema.

higher4hockey

04-15-2007, 06:56 PM

nuke em till they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Psycho4Bud

04-15-2007, 06:59 PM

You are pro-Bush and post on a website like this and have a picture of marijuana for your profile pic??? Smoke some more pot buddy, or even better, get off this site and post on foxnews.

First off Markass if FAR from being pro-Bush........next, I'm just about as close as your going to get in here to it and to have someone with 50 posts stating something like this in a forum open for debate is rediculous!

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

Psycho4Bud

04-15-2007, 07:16 PM

As you probably know, wingers is the polite term for your positions. If I used the terms that I really thought, I'd be banned from this site for life. I'm trying to keep it civil.

And we thank you for that, your absence would be noticed!:thumbsup:

BTW I think the crusades were a few years back, ancient history I believe,

It is, maybe Pelosi could explain that to these people on one of her visits.:D

and oh yeah, IMO, the Bush regime really is an evil empire, one of the most evil I've seen in my short life.

I thought you were old enough to remember Pol Pot.

Tell me this: outside if just bombing the whole middle east back to the stone age, what is your opinion on solving the dillema.

Like I've stated before, take your choice:

1) Complete isolationism; close off all borders and trade with the middle east, anybody of the Muslim faith in the U.S. currently speaking hate will be deported.

2) Inform each country in the middle east to clean up it's backyard of these assclowns or here comes the stone age. NO exceptions! No need for troops on the ground.......just take out the entire infrastructure.(My own personal choice.......I knew you'd be confused as to which I'd pick): :D

3) Talk, yap, debate out all this common knowledge shit until things progress to the point that it's unstoppable........i.e. Iran/Nukes...this will ultimately be the decision.:wtf:

Have a good one!:s4:

Markass

04-15-2007, 07:44 PM

ice#1

04-15-2007, 08:28 PM

if we would of nuked them back during dessert storm 9/11 never would of happened

ATrain

04-15-2007, 10:15 PM

if we would of nuked them back during dessert storm 9/11 never would of happened

I've got to disagree with that one :p Very few instances I can see where "nuking them" is the answer.

I just don't see how the occupation of Iraq ends terrorism? And just because there hasn't been a terrorist attack since 9/11 doesn't mean that Bush is to thank :wtf: Since he was President during 9/11 wouldn't that send some of the blame his way if that were the case?

My thoughts on the occupation of Iraq and terrorism

Lisa: â??By your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.â?
Homer: â??Hmm; how does it work?â?
Lisa: â??It doesnâ??t work; itâ??s just a stupid rock!â?
Homer: â??Uh-huh.â?
Lisa: â??... but I donâ??t see any tigers around, do you?â?
Homer: â??Lisa, I want to buy your rock...â?

fishman3811

04-15-2007, 10:26 PM

Where would you get your oil from if you nuked the middle east?OH no were going to have the yanks storming our borders better bring your parkas and touques.But at least you wont have to deal with muslim fanatics,just crazy drunk canucks......have a good one and remember dick cheney before he dicks you

twist n shout

04-15-2007, 11:19 PM

wait wait...so you're saying that America can not be attacked by terrorists so long as we're in a war with Iraq? Fuck that shit. You're wrong :thumbsup:

Iv'e got to agree.We are going to get to a point where our military resources in Iraq,Afganastan,maybe Iran soon, will almost certainly leave our home shores less secure and protected,simply because manpower and resources will be depleted here at home. North Korea, Iran, hell even Cuba , can just sit back and wait until we are less able to properly defend the U.S.A.
I don't think we should spend one more minute in Iraq. We should bring our troops home NOW. As long as you are at war with an enemy who is willing to sacrifice they"re own lives on the premis of a "Holy"war,or a civil war,wich is now Iraq,you can not win.We need to concentrate on fully and agressively securing and defending our borders.All it takes is one rogue nation to push the button.And then what? Nuclear winter.Mass casualty"s,immediatly and for generations to come.We need to be able to defend from,and respond to ANY agression,ANY time.We cant do that with our resources stretched to thin.We need to remember the Viet Nam war.The time for change is now.Before it"s too late.:s4: :apachecopter:

medicinal

04-16-2007, 08:02 AM

Like I've stated before, take your choice:

1) Complete isolationism; close off all borders and trade with the middle east, anybody of the Muslim faith in the U.S. currently speaking hate will be deported.

2) Inform each country in the middle east to clean up it's backyard of these assclowns or here comes the stone age. NO exceptions! No need for troops on the ground.......just take out the entire infrastructure.(My own personal choice.......I knew you'd be confused as to which I'd pick): :D

3) Talk, yap, debate out all this common knowledge shit until things progress to the point that it's unstoppable........i.e. Iran/Nukes...this will ultimately be the decision.:wtf:

Have a good one!:s4:
So.... It's isolationism or the bomb. I guess if I had to make a choice, I'd go with isolationism, but I'd rather see an intelligent debate between the opposing parties, sans radicals on both sides. If you see the muslim extremests as radicals, you must by virtue of the confrontational nature of Bushco, see them as radicals also. If the radicals were taken out of the picture, I'm pretty sure you could get some peace deals worked out, IE Nancy Pelosis' intent on her trip. Intelligent men most always view peace as the best solution and only use violence as a last resort. I'm pretty sure that not many will argue that we have both the baddest weapons and the best means of delivery, the key is how to avoid using them.

Fengzi

04-16-2007, 04:21 PM

Remember, Viet Nam, the 10,000 day war. .

There are many parallels to the way we fucked up in Vietnam to the way we are fucking up in Iraq. It's sad to see that our politicians can't learn from the past.

- We are in a war because of unrealistic fears: Vietnam-the spread of communisn, Iraq-terrorism (wmd's ;) ) .

- Like Vietnam, we are making the mistake that this is a war of attrition. If we kill enough of them we'll win.

- In our efforst to save the people we are suposedly helping, we've made their lives even more fucked up.

-People who should be on our side now see us as "occupiers" not saviors.

-We continue to think we have all the answers and know better than the locals.

-Due to the fact that we've done such a shitty job,and the war has become so unpopular back home, we'll leave before it's finished. "Sorry we fucked up your country. Bummer. Now we're going home. Have fun fixing it"

Psycho4Bud

04-16-2007, 06:24 PM

but I'd rather see an intelligent debate between the opposing parties, sans radicals on both sides. If you see the muslim extremests as radicals, you must by virtue of the confrontational nature of Bushco, see them as radicals also. If the radicals were taken out of the picture, I'm pretty sure you could get some peace deals worked out, IE Nancy Pelosis' intent on her trip.

3) Talk, yap, debate out all this common knowledge shit until things progress to the point that it's unstoppable........i.e. Iran/Nukes...this will ultimately be the decision.:wtf:

I don't think that Pelosi is going to have any better luck with Iran than the ACTUAL world leaders have had but what the hell..........lets give Iran more time to develope their plan........

Have a good one!:s4:

Coelho

04-16-2007, 07:04 PM

Just one question. Who of you REALLY believes the iraq is the source of the terrorism, instead a source of oil?

Fengzi

04-16-2007, 08:31 PM

Just one question. Who of you REALLY believes the iraq is the source of the terrorism, instead a source of oil?

Don't kid yourself Coelho, Iraq is a huge source for terrorism. Maybe it wasn't 4 years ago but now, thanks to the extraordinary vison and leadership of George W. Bush, it's a hotbed of terrorist activity. Forget about Osama Bin Laden, Dubya's the best thing to happen to Al Queada since instant hummus

Krogith

04-16-2007, 10:26 PM

Don't kid yourself Coelho, Iraq is a huge source for terrorism. Maybe it wasn't 4 years ago but now, thanks to the extraordinary vison and leadership of George W. Bush, it's a hotbed of terrorist activity. Forget about Osama Bin Laden, Dubya's the best thing to happen to Al Queada since instant hummus

Just wait, here a stat. in WW1 there was a 7% chance you would just shoot anyone you saw ahead of you or what knot. during WW2 there was a 48% chance you would Shoot someone right away and not ask who or whats going on. Iraq war 98% Shoot on the Spot, one young man after killing a man,woman and child said " just like killing cockroaches."

medicinal

04-16-2007, 11:52 PM

Just one question. Who of you REALLY believes the iraq is the source of the terrorism, instead a source of oil?

As has been said a few times: Iraq was not a terrorist state untill we upset the apple cart. Our being there has created an opportunity for all muslims that hate America to come join the killing fields. There were no real terrorists there before we went there. I'm sure the Iraqis didn't really care for us much with our no fly zones, sanctions, and increased rate of cancer and child deformity from "depleted Uranium" shells used in Gulf 1, but they were not plotting to terrorize us. We've opened Pandoras Box and don't know how to close it. It's time to leave and let them kill each other. The right says caos will reign, what the hell do you have now. I say let the caos begin, Oh, I mean continue without us.

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 12:54 AM

As has been said a few times: Iraq was not a terrorist state untill we upset the apple cart.

I guess paying the familys of martyrs $25,000 doesn't count for much these days..........
Or the invasion of Kuwait..........
Or the use of chemical weapons on the Kurds........
OR..............

Have a good one!:s4:

medicinal

04-17-2007, 01:32 AM

I guess paying the familys of martyrs $25,000 doesn't count for much these days..........
Or the invasion of Kuwait..........
Or the use of chemical weapons on the Kurds........
OR..............

Have a good one!:s4:

Old news my friend, old news. I've never said sadam wasn't a scumbag, just not worth almost a trillion bucks and 3300+++ american lives. And be honest, What have we accomplished other than to kill the scumbags (Sadam and his Sons) and start a civil war, do you honestly think it was worth it. You can't be that jaded or brainwashed, or stubborn now, can you? Look send me a PM and confess, that way you won't embarass yourself, ~LOL~! The right is wrong. the left is wrong, somewhere in the middle there must be some common sense.

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 02:04 AM

Look send me a PM and confess, that way you won't embarass yourself, ~LOL~! The right is wrong. the left is wrong, somewhere in the middle there must be some common sense.

Your statement:

As has been said a few times: Iraq was not a terrorist state untill we upset the apple cart.

Likewise.....you got my e-mail, I won't tell a soul in here. :thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

fishman3811

04-17-2007, 03:53 AM

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 04:34 AM

Saddam gave money to martyrs OMG lets nuke the country.Wait a minute doesnt America aid Isreal in their genocide of the Palastienians by giving them arms and nukes and money.So whats good for the goose is good for the gander.Nothing these bushies can say that is any worse that what Bush/Cheney has done.Kinda comical actually.

This is comical..........first off you'd better check out your nuke theory and get back to us. Seems to me that the French were behind that one. Do a google search once just for fun.

Next, if Canada or Mexico were launching rockets into the U.S. I suppose it would be considered a genocide when we kicked their asses.

Bushies.........classic! By the way.......that's the home of Hamas, not Hezbollah just for future reference.

Have a good one!:s4:

fishman3811

04-17-2007, 05:33 AM

True Hezbollah is in Lebanon my mistake.But if America occupied parts of Canada we would be firing rockets into America dont ya think?

fishman3811

04-17-2007, 05:50 AM

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 01:59 PM

True Hezbollah is in Lebanon my mistake.But if America occupied parts of Canada we would be firing rockets into America dont ya think?

Israel has given back lands only to get bitch slapped in the end for it. There is a reason why there is NO international aid to Palestine right now. Hamas has an agenda that doesn't promote a peaceful end to all this.

Have a good one!:s4:

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 02:05 PM

Also the Bush administration equipped Isreals submarines with nuclear armed harpoon missiles.The French did help Isreal but so did the British help Isreal in developing nuclear weapons but bush did give Isreal the means to launch them.my mistake on thinking America supplied Isreal with nuclear weapons.Thanks for pointing that out P4B....have a good one

I don't recall anything on the Brits helping but who knows.....I'll do a bit of research on that one. As for the Harpoon missiles.......they are NOT a nuclear device.
AGM-84 Harpoon/SLAM - Smart Weapons (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-84.htm)

We don't supply Israel with nukes, they got their own. In all actuallity the middle east is fortunate that we supply arms to Israel. Look up the Sampson option. If what it says is true........in case of imminent destruction they launch ALL their nukes into the middle east which would be about 200 missiles by estimation. IF Israel became weak enough they'd have Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria just to name a few storming across her borders.

Have a good one!:s4:

medicinal

04-17-2007, 04:16 PM

Your statement:

Likewise.....you got my e-mail, I won't tell a soul in here. :thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

Hey, I'm not denying it's a terrorist state now, But it was us that made it so! I seriously doubt that the Iraqis want to come over here and fuck with us, they just want us gone. Did you see the protest march in the streets last week, "America go home", Is there something you didn't understand about that? Now don't give me that bull about that under Sadam they would never have been allowed to do that, and you are so right. Sadam had the crazies under control. Democracy will never work in Iraq. It didn't work in Viet Nam, and it wont work there either. It's time to leave, we should have never gone but it's time to leave....... BTW, do you own stock in Haliburton? Thats where I fucked up, when I heard the Bushies rattling the sabers against Iraq, I should have put everything into Haliburton, would have cleaned up.

Fengzi

04-17-2007, 04:54 PM

I guess paying the familys of martyrs $25,000 doesn't count for much these days..........
Or the invasion of Kuwait..........
Or the use of chemical weapons on the Kurds........
OR..............

Have a good one!:s4:

These are acts of war, not terrorism. Something we are equally guilty of. Not to mention that the invasion of Kuwait, and using chemical weapons on the kurds, happened 16+ years ago. And just because some Iraqi taxi diver named Mohamed, who lives in New York, and who has a neighbor who works with a Saudi guy who's 2nd cousin, twice removed, once brushed up againt Osmai Bin Laden, when both were 2 years old, doesn't mean Iraq has tied to Al Queada. It may in Dubya's world but I think even old Peter Pan wouldn't allow that into Never Never Land.

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 04:59 PM

Hey, I'm not denying it's a terrorist state now, But it was us that made it so!

Ever hear of that illegal invasion of Kuwait........$25,000 to families of martyrs. Going in circles here dude.

I seriously doubt that the Iraqis want to come over here and fuck with us, they just want us gone. Did you see the protest march in the streets last week, "America go home", Is there something you didn't understand about that?

LMAO! Al-Sadr throws a protest and you relate that to the feelings of the country. Did ya see that a few days before we bombed ol' boys militia? How about the fact that the Iraqi Government let him know that the games are done? MAYBE that had something to do with it.

Now don't give me that bull about that under Sadam they would never have been allowed to do that, and you are so right. Sadam had the crazies under control.

So when the crazies here in the U.S. start a protest we should just swoop down with some Apache helicopters and take them out? It was a peaceful demonstration.....sign of a democracy like it or not.

Democracy will never work in Iraq. It didn't work in Viet Nam, and it wont work there either. It's time to leave, we should have never gone but it's time to leave....... BTW, do you own stock in Haliburton?

No stock in Haliburton......second guess?

Thats where I fucked up, when I heard the Bushies rattling the sabers against Iraq, I should have put everything into Haliburton, would have cleaned up.

Now wouldn't you have felt bad about making all that money based on the blood of others?

Have a good one!:s4:

Fengzi

04-17-2007, 05:19 PM

Ever hear of that illegal invasion of Kuwait........$25,000 to families of martyrs. Going in circles here dude.
s4:

Who's the one going in circles Psycho? I just can't belive that you keep going back to an argument that is so weak. Now if you wanted to argue that Saddam was an evil shit head, sure, these are valid points. But this is about whether or not Iraq was directly linked to terrorism. You might as well state that Saddam liked to eat falafel because it no less relevant.

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 05:27 PM

19 May 2005

CAIRO - The regime of Saddam Hussain rejected repeated requests from Jordan to hand over Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who now heads Al Qaeda in Iraq, the Jordanian king said in an interview published on Thursday.

King Abdullah II told the pan-Arab daily Al-Hayat that Jordan exerted â??big effortsâ? with Saddamâ??s government to extradite al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian sentenced to death at home for terrorist activities.

â??But our demands that the former regime hand him over were in vain,â? Abdullah said.

â??We had information that he entered Iraq from a neighboring country, where he lived and what he was doing. We informed the Iraqi authorities about all this detailed information we had, but they didnâ??t respond,â? the king said.
Khaleej Times Online - Saddam refused to hand Zarqawi to Jordan: King Abdullah (http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2005/May/middleeast_May570.xml&section=middleeast&col)

But there was NO relationship there..........RIGHT!

And hell, paying the families of martyrs means nothing either.......

Have a good one!:s4:

Fengzi

04-17-2007, 05:43 PM

VisionaryUrbanTactic

04-17-2007, 06:08 PM

no one will get this right untill they understand that israel should not even be a country.

that we are hated in the middle east, because of the "take over of arab lands in 1947"

how can you guys keep missing this all important moment in time?

zionism

a radical jewish sub group that since it's start in the late 1880's has used terrorism and back handed deals to get a homeland for the jewish people.

True Torah Jews Against Zionism (http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com)

only when we stop supporting the zionists in israel(which wont happen since most of our leaders are fed by the jewish/zionist money machine) will there be peace.

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 06:09 PM

(CNSNews.com) - Iraqi intelligence documents, confiscated by U.S. forces and obtained by CNSNews.com, show numerous efforts by Saddam Hussein's regime to work with some of the world's most notorious terror organizations, including al Qaeda, to target Americans. They demonstrate that Saddam's government possessed mustard gas and anthrax, both considered weapons of mass destruction, in the summer of 2000, during the period in which United Nations weapons inspectors were not present in Iraq. And the papers show that Iraq trained dozens of terrorists inside its borders.

One of the Iraqi memos contains an order from Saddam for his intelligence service to support terrorist attacks against Americans in Somalia. The memo was written nine months before U.S. Army Rangers were ambushed in Mogadishu by forces loyal to a warlord with alleged ties to al Qaeda.

Other memos provide a list of terrorist groups with whom Iraq had relationships and considered available for terror operations against the United States.

Among the organizations mentioned are those affiliated with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman al-Zawahiri, two of the world's most wanted terrorists. Zarqawi is believed responsible for the kidnapping and beheading of several American civilians in Iraq and claimed responsibility for a series of deadly bombings in Iraq Sept. 30. Al-Zawahiri is the top lieutenant of al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, allegedly helped plan the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist strikes on the U.S., and is believed to be the voice on an audio tape broadcast by Al-Jazeera television Oct. 1, calling for attacks on U.S. and British interests everywhere.
Exclusive: Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties -- 10/04/2004 (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%5Car chive%5C200410%5CSPE20041004a.html)

THE FORMER IRAQI REGIME OF Saddam Hussein trained thousands of radical Islamic terrorists from the region at camps in Iraq over the four years immediately preceding the U.S. invasion, according to documents and photographs recovered by the U.S. military in postwar Iraq. The existence and character of these documents has been confirmed to THE WEEKLY STANDARD by eleven U.S. government officials.
Saddam's Terror Training Camps (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/550kmbzd.asp)

BUT! ....some Iraqi taxi diver named Mohamed, who lives in New York, and who has a neighbor who works with a Saudi guy who's 2nd cousin, twice removed, once brushed up againt Osmai Bin Laden...................LMAO!!!

Have a good one!:s4:

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 06:11 PM

no one will get this right untill they understand that israel should not even be a country.

GREAT point!:rolleyes: Any affiliation with Great Spirit by chance?

Have a good one!:s4:

VisionaryUrbanTactic

04-17-2007, 06:16 PM

GREAT point!:rolleyes: Any affiliation with Great Spirit by chance?

Have a good one!:s4:

i could little expect someone with your research skills to understand what is going on.

so just for shits and giggles

could you tell me why most true torah jews renounce the israel state?

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 06:19 PM

i could little expect someone with your research skills to understand what is going on.

so just for shits and giggles

could you tell me why most true torah jews renounce the israel state?

From your site:
IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT ALL THE SAGES AND SAINTS IN EUROPE AT THE TIME OF HITLER'S RISE DECLARED THAT HE WAS A MESSENGER OF DIVINE WRATH, SENT TO CHASTEN THE JEWS BECAUSE OF THE BITTER APOSTASY OF ZIONISM AGAINST THE BELIEF IN THE EVENTUAL MESSIANIC REDEMPTION.

Enough said.........

Have a good one!:s4:

VisionaryUrbanTactic

04-17-2007, 06:24 PM

From your site:
IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT ALL THE SAGES AND SAINTS IN EUROPE AT THE TIME OF HITLER'S RISE DECLARED THAT HE WAS A MESSENGER OF DIVINE WRATH, SENT TO CHASTEN THE JEWS BECAUSE OF THE BITTER APOSTASY OF ZIONISM AGAINST THE BELIEF IN THE EVENTUAL MESSIANIC REDEMPTION.

Enough said.........

Have a good one!:s4:

so, lets get this right

you think it was an accident?

1. do you think the true torah jews should forget the passages that they should not claim a homeland even by force?

2. do you think that god would not punish them for following the zionists?

3. if god is all knowing, why was hitler allowed to kill all those jewish people?

4. is there a god? if so, and the zionists are right, and israel should be a country(again forgeting the passages that state that god himself would bring them back to the holyland), dont you think god should be smitting there enemy's as stated in the torah?

5. you really have no clue at all do you?

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 06:34 PM

so, lets get this right

you think it was an accident?

1. do you think the true torah jews should forget the passages that they should not claim a homeland even by force?

2. do you think that god would not punish them for following the zionists?

3. if god is all knowing, why was hitler allowed to kill all those jewish people?

4. is there a god? if so, and the zionists are right, and israel should be a country(again forgeting the passages that state that god himself would bring them back to the holyland), dont you think god should be smitting there enemy's as stated in the torah?

5. you really have no clue at all do you?

I thought 9-11 was your only issue..........but it's very evident you have many. I'm done with ya.........

Have a good one!:s4:

VisionaryUrbanTactic

04-17-2007, 07:01 PM

of course you are

why would they make you a mod, if you have no debating skills, nor any research skills what so ever?

can we get a mod in here that knows ALITTLE about what they are talking about?

anyone?

surreys princess

04-17-2007, 07:13 PM

p4b may be done, but i am just beginning on this one....

now this forum isnt usually my thing, but you have definately got my attention...

i find your views and propoganda insulting, to say the very least...i am a jew...and what hitler did was what we call a shundah....it is a horrible thing..this monster killed 6 million jews, innocent men, women, and children...and furthermore, there is no such thing as a torah jew....

your information is flawed, to say the least...propoganda at its best......

zionists are people who have a love for israel, and nothing more....you are too close minded to get that all religions have extremist cults, not just jews..

i think before the day is done i am going to have to school you...

ps...you should maybe research before YOU speak....p4b is incredibly knowledgable, and more than an assett as a mod...you on the other hand, leave much to be desired in the form of a member...

VisionaryUrbanTactic

04-17-2007, 07:54 PM

i find your views and propoganda insulting, to say the very least...i am a jew

great

i am jewish as well, you want a cookie?

my great grandparents were gassed, simply because the zionists did not want them to goto "any other country then israel"

there is no such thing as a torah jew

really?

why does this website have a listing for it then?

Question 2.18: What is a "Torah Jew?" (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/02-Who-We-Are/section-19.html)

Answer:

The expression "the Torah world" and "Torah Jew" tends to be used
primarily by the "yeshivish" world, as other groups prefer other
buzzwords. But many other Jews object to the term, as they also claim
to be true to Torah principles in their practice.

In general, if someone dislikes a particular term, switch to another
term which conveys the same information

your information is flawed, to say the least...propoganda at its best......

of course, i remember hearing about the little jewish girl who knew it all

that must be you.

zionists are people who have a love for israel, and nothing more

your right about that

they love the homeland, and will and did sacrifice millions of jews to get it, now thats love, lets quote some of the love shall we?

It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-semites shall be our best friendsâ?. (From his Diary, Part I, pp. 16)

now thats love

you are too close minded to get that all religions have extremist cults, not just jews..

so are you saying zionism is an extreme cult?

i think before the day is done i am going to have to school you...

please do

ps...you should maybe research before YOU speak....p4b is incredibly knowledgable

sure, he is, i dont know any body else, that can insert a eagle flag into each post, another genuis right here under our noses all along.

you on the other hand, leave much to be desired in the form of a member

oh, sorry, so if i thought like you did, i would be a better member?

let me go post 100 threads about pot, maybe that will make me a better member for you.

surreys princess

04-17-2007, 08:01 PM

no, you dont have to think like me, by any means....

but you do not have to spill your hate on this forum, that simple...

if you dont see it that way, go talk to your rabbi...

no, i do not want a cookie, i believe in watching my figure and looking good...

torah jews are not recognized by jews...

no, i dont know it all, but i do know right from wrong....

i am not a little girl, but a full grown, highly educated and successful woman..

as i said in your other thread, i am all for freedom of speech, but you leave a bad taste in my mouth...

go boohoo to your kkk buddies or something.....

you are a complete disgrace to our religion, and need to go to yeshiva and learn about the truth.....

in closing, i will not judge you, i will pray for you...only God can help you...

kol yisrael arevim zeh lazeh.... (all jews are resposible for another, roughly translated...)...

Coelho

04-17-2007, 08:06 PM

I guess paying the familys of martyrs $25,000 doesn't count for much these days..........
Or the invasion of Kuwait..........
Or the use of chemical weapons on the Kurds........
OR..............

Have a good one!

well... i was talking about terrorism against the USA. But if that acts you mentioned are considered terrorism, what do you think about the lots of countries in the Africa which are in civil war? Women, children, killed mercilessly (when dont die of starvation). If the USA are so worried about the well being of the humanity, why does they only fight the iraqui "terrorism"? Does the Kuwaitians and the Kurds are people and the africans are not? Why this great worry about some ones and the total indiference (to say the least) with another ones?
Thats why i say its only because of the oil...

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 08:35 PM

Well, ya got your wish...........how did ya like the new moderator? LMAO!!!!!

Have a good one!:s4:

Psycho4Bud

04-17-2007, 08:37 PM

well... i was talking about terrorism against the USA. But if that acts you mentioned are considered terrorism, what do you think about the lots of countries in the Africa which are in civil war? Women, children, killed mercilessly (when dont die of starvation). If the USA are so worried about the well being of the humanity, why does they only fight the iraqui "terrorism"? Does the Kuwaitians and the Kurds are people and the africans are not? Why this great worry about some ones and the total indiference (to say the least) with another ones?
Thats why i say its only because of the oil...

Do a google search on Bill Clinton and Rwanda........I agree with ya except for the oil gig!:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

fishman3811

04-17-2007, 11:16 PM

P4B did you know that article in the Weekl Standard about terrorist training camps written bye Hayes well he actually didnt see any of the documents and photographs in question.Fact Salmen Pak was a training camp for counterterrorism operations for Iraqi Intelligence Service.Fact the SIC Senate Intelligence Committee staff asked both CIA and DIA analysts whether any AL-Qaida operatives or other sources have confirmed Salmen Pak training allegations,and the unanimous response was that none have reported knowledge of any training.Hayes the writer of this story in the weekly telagraph insisted that if only the U.S government would release these documents they would support his point.So why dont the U.S release them good question wouldnt that be the smoking gun?Or just a pack of lies?Like everything else the neo-cons spew out of their mouths.Also it was Ahmed Chalabi of the INC Iraqi National Congress who first told of these stories of large Iraqi training camps.The INC even supplied Iraqi defectors that claimed to have worked at Salmen Pak.Their duties they said included training Islamic militants in terrorist techniques.Sabah Khodada one of the defectors went so far as to claim that the 9/11 operation was conducted by people who were trained by Saddam.But as we all know now Chalabi turned out to be a liar and a crook intent on making as much money as he can.These so called training camps turned out to be a hoax.

Coelho

04-18-2007, 01:13 AM

Do a google search on Bill Clinton and Rwanda........I agree with ya except for the oil gig!:thumbsup:

Have a good one!

OK... but if is not the oil, what is the interest of the USA in the iraq?

Fengzi

04-18-2007, 04:22 PM

GrowRebel

04-19-2007, 05:35 AM

I guess paying the familys of martyrs $25,000 doesn't count for much these days..........

It doesn't count when the US does it so why should it count for them?

Or the invasion of Kuwait..........

Hussein went to the US ambassador April Glaspie and presented his case against Kuwait (http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html) .... for a boarder/oil payment dispute ..... he was told by Glaspie ..... "But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."
Bush 41 and the neocons wanted Hussein to attack Kuwait so they could put bases there which they did ....

Or the use of chemical weapons on the Kurds........
OR..............

Have a good one!:s4:

Done with the blessings of the US government. (http://www.greenleft.org.au/2002/506/27605) So if they weren't outraged then .... why are you now?

Here's something else for your reading pleasure .....

Did Saddam Gas the Kurds? (http://hnn.us/articles/1242.html)

Don't forget folks at home .... Hussein was the US's buddyboy ....

:noel:

medicinal

04-19-2007, 05:54 AM

Did Sadam gas the Kurds? Yeah, with good old American technical support. According Iraq's report to the UN, the know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained from firms in such countries as: the United States, West Germany, the United Kingdom, France and China.[1] By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[2]

cannabis=freedom

04-19-2007, 06:03 AM

Psycho4Bud

04-19-2007, 03:23 PM

Question for you Psycho: If Iraq is guilty of aiding Osama Bin Laden and Al Queada, and therefore deserves to be invaded, does that mean anyone else who helped Osama Bin Laden deserves to be taken out as well?

You should know my answer on that one but here it is.......HELL YEAH!

Have a good one!:s4:

Psycho4Bud

04-19-2007, 03:27 PM

It doesn't count when the US does it so why should it count for them?

Yeah, reality check.........when do we pay the families of martyrs? I suppose there is some left wing story that can be twisted to suit the need.

Hussein went to the US ambassador April Glaspie and presented his case against Kuwait (http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html) .... for a boarder/oil payment dispute ..... he was told by Glaspie ..... "But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."
Bush 41 and the neocons wanted Hussein to attack Kuwait so they could put bases there which they did ....

LMAO!

Done with the blessings of the US government. (http://www.greenleft.org.au/2002/506/27605) So if they weren't outraged then .... why are you now?

Here's something else for your reading pleasure .....

Did Saddam Gas the Kurds? (http://hnn.us/articles/1242.html)

Don't forget folks at home .... Hussein was the US's buddyboy ....

:noel:

He WAS an allie to not only the U.S. but also Kuwait, Saudi Arabia just to mention a few in the middle east during the Iran/Iraq war. By the way, that is when we supplied the chems.........NOT to take out the Kurds like you implied.

Have a good one!:s4:

Psycho4Bud

04-19-2007, 03:29 PM

There's been quite a bit of French bashing here, but I personally like to measure a country by its beauty, culture, food, etc., not its ability to be an international thug who bullies other countries to further its own monetary interests.

Oh hell yeah.....Like their ambitions in Vietnam before they cut and run.....or their actions in Albania before they cut and run......or thier actions in Rwanda during the genocide.........or their actions in Sudan. REAL beauty under the film of dirt.

Have a good one!:s4:

medicinal

04-19-2007, 04:49 PM

Oh hell yeah.....Like their ambitions in Vietnam before they cut and run.....or their actions in Albania before they cut and run......or thier actions in Rwanda during the genocide.........or their actions in Sudan. REAL beauty under the film of dirt.

Have a good one!:s4:

Well, I've got to hand it to you, you certainly aren't trying to win a popularity contest. It seems you are outnumbered in here about three to one, but you stick to the rhetoric all the way, I don't know if you're that convinced or just like my dad was, stubborn. Anyway I see it as a good thing. If everyone agreed, it would just get boring, and in fact every once in a while I see a little glimmer of light in your responses. Come on out from the darkside, we'll accept you with open arms,~LOL~.

Fengzi

04-19-2007, 04:51 PM

You should know my answer on that one but here it is.......HELL YEAH!

Have a good one!:s4:

Well then, it's time to batten down the hatches my friend, because we were helping the old boy before Saddam(allegedely) was. Have you forgotten when those nasty Ruskies invaded Afgahnistan? I had slipped my mind until fishman reminded me :thumbsup: . Back then Osama was our golden boy. Of course back then radical Islam wasn't nearly as scary as the Red Menace :eek: I guess helping terrorists is bad as long as it doesn't benefit our interests. When it does though...;)

Psycho4Bud

04-19-2007, 04:56 PM

Well, I've got to hand it to you, you certainly aren't trying to win a popularity contest. It seems you are outnumbered in here about three to one, but you stick to the rhetoric all the way, I don't know if you're that convinced or just like my dad was, stubborn. Anyway I see it as a good thing. If everyone agreed, it would just get boring, and in fact every once in a while I see a little glimmer of light in your responses. Come on out from the darkside, we'll accept you with open arms,~LOL~.

LMAO!!! :vader1: I'll stick to the darkside thank you! :thumbsup:

Politics is all about debate and exchanging ideas.....like you stated, "If everyone agreed, it would just get boring".

The U.S. is sitting at about the same 3:1 ratio with world opinion but.........when your "right" your right.........LOL:D

Have a good one!:s4:

Psycho4Bud

04-19-2007, 05:04 PM

Well then, it's time to batten down the hatches my friend, because we were helping the old boy before Saddam(allegedely) was. Have you forgotten when those nasty Ruskies invaded Afgahnistan? I had slipped my mind until fishman reminded me :thumbsup: . Back then Osama was our golden boy. Of course back then radical Islam wasn't nearly as scary as the Red Menace :eek: I guess helping terrorists is bad as long as it doesn't benefit our interests. When it does though...;)

â??A friend is one who has the same enemies as you haveâ?-----Abraham Lincoln

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.----Winston Churchill

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.---Arab Proverb:D

Have a good one!:s4:

Fengzi

04-19-2007, 05:54 PM

â??A friend is one who has the same enemies as you haveâ?-----Abraham Lincoln

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.----Winston Churchill

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.---Arab Proverb:D

Have a good one!:s4:

So, in other words, when we do it it's ok. But when someone esle does it we should bomb the shit out of them.

And we wonder why the rest of the world has such a high opinion of us :rolleyes:

Psycho4Bud

04-19-2007, 06:17 PM

So, in other words, when we do it it's ok. But when someone esle does it we should bomb the shit out of them.

And we wonder why the rest of the world has such a high opinion of us :rolleyes:

Oh the wonderful world of politics......gotta love it! So who were our allies during WW2 again? LOL.......ch,ch,ch, changes...........

Have a good one!:s4:

GrowRebel

04-19-2007, 07:33 PM

He WAS an allie to not only the U.S. but also Kuwait, Saudi Arabia just to mention a few in the middle east during the Iran/Iraq war. By the way, that is when we supplied the chems.........NOT to take out the Kurds like you implied.

Have a good one!:s4:

Yeah Psycho .... lyao is about all you can do .... disputing the report(s) presented with facts it something you continue to avoid. No surprises there. .... You have no facts to dispute it ..... And I never implied the US supply gas so the Kurds could be attacked .... that's another bushies tactic of making shit up. What I do say not imply is that the gassing of the Kurds had the knowledge and blessing of the US. That's a fact.

Hussein was made an "enemy" so they could get those bases in Kuwait .... that's a fact. You can't dispute the report ..... you can use the typical bushie tactics and dismiss it which is fine with me ..... more show for the folks at home.:thumbsup: :hippy:

:noel:

Psycho4Bud

04-19-2007, 08:07 PM

Yeah Psycho .... lyao is about all you can do .... disputing the report(s) presented with facts it something you continue to avoid. No surprises there. .... You have no facts to dispute it ..... And I never implied the US supply gas so the Kurds could be attacked .... that's another bushies tactic of making shit up. What I do say not imply is that the gassing of the Kurds had the knowledge and blessing of the US. That's a fact.

Hussein was made an "enemy" so they could get those bases in Kuwait .... that's a fact. You can't dispute the report ..... you can use the typical bushie tactics and dismiss it which is fine with me ..... more show for the folks at home.:thumbsup: :hippy:

:noel:

Show me where the U.S. gave the blessing. I tried to open your site from, LOL, greenleft.org and it won't open. The other site "History News Network" explains on how Stephen Pelletiere implied that the Kurds may have been attacked by Iran but in all actuallity it was genocide created by Saddam:

The Kurdish minority of northern Iraq speaks an Indo-European language very different from the Semitic language of Arabic, and has long sought greater autonomy from Baghdad. Largely farmers and pastoralists, they practice a mystical, Sufi form of Islam that is distinctive in modern Iraq. During the Iran-Iraq war of 1980-1988, which Saddam Hussein launched against his neighbor, the Kurds sought Iranian support for their insurgency. The Baath regime, threatened, responded by destroying Kurdish villages in strategic zones, resorting to ethnic cleansing.

NOWHERE in that link does it suggest in any way that the U.S. gave its blessings as you implied.

Have a good one!:s4:

medicinal

04-19-2007, 10:27 PM

Show me where the U.S. gave the blessing. I tried to open your site from, LOL, greenleft.org and it won't open. The other site "History News Network" explains on how Stephen Pelletiere implied that the Kurds may have been attacked by Iran but in all actuallity it was genocide created by Saddam:

The Kurdish minority of northern Iraq speaks an Indo-European language very different from the Semitic language of Arabic, and has long sought greater autonomy from Baghdad. Largely farmers and pastoralists, they practice a mystical, Sufi form of Islam that is distinctive in modern Iraq. During the Iran-Iraq war of 1980-1988, which Saddam Hussein launched against his neighbor, the Kurds sought Iranian support for their insurgency. The Baath regime, threatened, responded by destroying Kurdish villages in strategic zones, resorting to ethnic cleansing.

NOWHERE in that link does it suggest in any way that the U.S. gave its blessings as you implied.
Have a good one!:s4:

According Iraq's report to the UN, the know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained from firms in such countries as: the United States,

Psycho4Bud

04-20-2007, 12:33 AM

According Iraq's report to the UN, the know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained from firms in such countries as: the United States,

Never denied that one.......it was meant for the Iranians during the Iran/Iraq war. That Basij army was being a pain in the ass apparently.

Have a good one!:s4:

Coelho

04-20-2007, 02:39 AM

does that mean anyone else who helped Osama Bin Laden deserves to be taken out as well?

You should know my answer on that one but here it is.......HELL YEAH!

Well then, it's time to batten down the hatches my friend, because we were helping the old boy before Saddam(allegedely) was. Have you forgotten when those nasty Ruskies invaded Afgahnistan? I had slipped my mind until fishman reminded me :thumbsup: . Back then Osama was our golden boy. Of course back then radical Islam wasn't nearly as scary as the Red Menace :eek: I guess helping terrorists is bad as long as it doesn't benefit our interests. When it does though...;)

So, all in all, the USA should invade and bomb itself.

"Someone who breeds a snake risks itself to be bitten" - Old proverb.

fishman3811

04-20-2007, 03:09 AM

P4B you say that anyone who helps or aides Bin Laden should be nuked right?Well why the fuck doesnt Bush nuke Saudi-Arabia they give money to terrorist organizations throughout the middle east not to mention Bin Laden.But we all know why dont we.Because the Bin Laden family has given money to Bush,The Saudi royal family gives money to Bush.So if you happen to give money to Bush but also give money to terrorists Bush just looks the other way.Good fucking president wow............

Psycho4Bud

04-20-2007, 03:57 AM

P4B you say that anyone who helps or aides Bin Laden should be nuked right?Well why the fuck doesnt Bush nuke Saudi-Arabia they give money to terrorist organizations throughout the middle east not to mention Bin Laden.

I agree........they have terrorist sponsors and promote this across their TVs...they should be dealt with also.

These folk are promoting a Holy War........that's what people need to realize.

Have a good one!:s4:

fishman3811

04-20-2007, 04:01 AM

P4B come join us leave the darkside....

Psycho4Bud

04-20-2007, 04:03 AM

:vader1: NEVER!

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.......YOU WILL BE ASSIMULATED!!

Have a good one.....while you can!:s4:

medicinal

04-20-2007, 04:33 PM

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.......YOU WILL BE ASSIM i LATED!!
Replace U with I and you have a word. I know, a slip of the finger, they are right next to each other on the keyboard I do it all the time as my fingers are too large to be a typist. But I think you are mellowing...... How can we watch the same news and have such differing views, Oh thats right, you watch Faux Noise. That channel should be banned, I'm not advocating banning them, I just believe it should be. If someone took them off the air, maybe America could start mellowing out. No that would never work, some radical John Bircher would just start a worse one. I guess it'll always be the them and us scenario. It used to be we could find common ground by uniting against a common enemy. But now with them creating the enemies, you don't know who to trust. They attack Sadam, while it was Saudis that brought down the towers, Go figure.

Psycho4Bud

04-20-2007, 04:41 PM

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.......YOU WILL BE ASSIM i LATED!!
But I think you are mellowing...... How can we watch the same news and have such differing views,

I'm not as hard right as lets say Torog but I am considered right of center. Damn......hope I don't start huggin' trees or some shit like that.......LOL

Oh thats right, you watch Faux Noise. That channel should be banned, I'm not advocating banning them, I just believe it should be.

BANNING??? I'm the last one to talk to about something like that........I'm completely against any type of ban........LMAO!!:D

Have a good one!:s4:

fishman3811

04-21-2007, 03:16 AM

Saudis are in bed with the Bush family enough said.

GrowRebel

04-21-2007, 10:19 PM

Show me where the U.S. gave the blessing. I tried to open your site from, LOL, greenleft.org and it won't open. The other site "History News Network" explains on how Stephen Pelletiere implied that the Kurds may have been attacked by Iran but in all actuallity it was genocide created by Saddam:

NOWHERE in that link does it suggest in any way that the U.S. gave its blessings as you implied.

Have a good one!:s4:

Folks at home ..... I'm sure you had no problems looking at the link I provided ....

How he US armed Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons
On August 18, the New York Times carried a front-page story headlined, â??Officers say U.S. aided Iraq despite the use of gasâ?. Quoting anonymous US â??senior military officersâ?, the NYT â??revealedâ? that in the 1980s, the administration of US President Ronald Reagan covertly provided â??critical battle planning assistance at a time when American intelligence knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical weapons in waging the decisive battles of the Iran-Iraq warâ?. The story made a brief splash in the international media, then died.

So the tired bushie excuse for illegally invading a sovereign nation because he gassed the Kurds is part of the power of nightmares that psycho as obviously fallen for.

Follow the money folks and you will find the truth. :rastasmoke: :hippy: :thumbsup:

:noel:

fishman3811

04-21-2007, 10:25 PM

Grow rebel is right and i dont know why these Bushies keep argueing the fact.Did anybody here see Donald Trump bash Bush ?He is one of the last people i would of thought that would of said negative things about him considering he is part of the elite.

medicinal

04-22-2007, 03:35 AM

I don't even like Trump, but by bashing Bush and being a billionaire that easily benefited heavily from the Bush tax cuts, speaks volumes about Bushs' agenda being fucked up. If the rich want respect from the proletariate, they need to get their priorities straight. We have nothing against rich people per-se, just the way they rule over us in that "we're so much better than you" way. A responsible rich person would know that sharing the wealth is a much more positive approach to life, not being a scrooge.

Psycho4Bud

04-22-2007, 05:11 AM

Folks at home ..... I'm sure you had no problems looking at the link I provided ....

FINALLY got it to open:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
Or the use of chemical weapons on the Kurds........
OR..............

Have a good one!

YOUR RESPONSE:

Done with the blessings of the US government. So if they weren't outraged then .... why are you now?

ACTUAL STORY FROM ARTICLE:

The day before, Iran had accused Iraq of poisoning 600 of its soldiers with mustard gas and Tabun nerve gas.

There is no doubt that the US government knew Iraq was using chemical weapons. On March 5, 1984, the State Department had stated that â??available evidence indicates that Iraq has used lethal chemical weaponsâ?. The March 30, 1984, NYT reported that US intelligence officials has â??what they believe to be incontrovertible evidence that Iraq has used nerve gas in its war with Iran and has almost finished extensive sites for mass producing the lethal chemical warfare agentâ?.

However, consistent with the pattern throughout the Iran-Iraq war and after, the use of these internationally outlawed weapons was not considered important enough by Rumsfeld and his political superiors to halt Washington's blossoming love affair with Hussein.

So where does that state that the U.S. gave their blessings for Saddam to gas the Kurds? NOWHERE in that article! I've NEVER disputed that we supplied chem weapons to Iraq for the Iran/Iraq war. It was a way to deal with the Basij at the time.

Have a good one!:s4:

cannabis=freedom

04-22-2007, 08:44 PM

War blows. No country should ever be violent towards another country except in self-defence from an invasion.

No grey areas in that; end of story.

cannabis=freedom

04-22-2007, 08:45 PM

I find it very encouraging to see that Bush supporters are incapable of arguing without desperately pulling hole-riddled arguments out of their ass. It makes our case stronger.

Psycho4Bud

04-22-2007, 09:40 PM

I find it very encouraging to see that Bush supporters are incapable of arguing without desperately pulling hole-riddled arguments out of their ass. It makes our case stronger.

I suppose we could take an article and twist it into a new and improved version like some of you others but hell.........you dig whatever out of your ass that you want to.

Have a good one!:s4:

fishman3811

04-23-2007, 02:19 AM

medicinal

04-23-2007, 06:43 AM

We only dig the truth out of our asses not some fear mongering propoganda.The Bushies use fear to control the masses and manipulate the media.They reward their friends with the spoils of war while sanatizing whats really going on.When this whole Iraqi mess is over and Bush/Cheney are hauled down to the Prague to answer to war crimes and crimes against humanity what will you tell your children or grand children what you did during these dark times?Will you sheepishly tell them you were for the war or lie?When they ask you about the prisoners being tortured what will you say?What will we say when they ask us what we did about it?will we tell them the truth and say we were just too busy........

Fish, the crazy thing is they don't see it that way. They think we're saving the world and whats a few hundred thousand deaths, they were just towelheads, The radicals hate us, so a little collateral damage (50-700 thousand deaths) is allright. If we don't kill them over there, they will be coming down our streets with AKs and RPGs. They are drinking the koolaid gulps at a time. There is no convincing right wing radicals that we are doing anything wrong in Iraq, Just kill them all and be done with it. I can't decide if they are totally brainwashed or just fucking stupid, it's got to be one or the other.

fishman3811

04-23-2007, 07:34 AM

Yeah med its crazy and they think that way too...oohh were saving the world and spreading democracy what a fucking joke.Med the fucking history books will not see it their way either.Whether they are brainwashed or stupid i think its a bit of both,but hey i was brainwashed into believing Iraq had WMDs and when they didnt find any thats when the light came on and i said whoa hold on here what the fuck did we just do...I think any intelligent person can see whats going on but the Bushies are just too blind.They dont want to see the truth.Now they are starting to believe the rhetoric about Iran.The Bush administration actually believe if we bomb Iran the people will rebel against their own government.Now i dont believe that and neither should any one else.But these crazies think this way and its scary.Well we can only hope the next administration just gets the fuck outta Iraq.But then again the terrorists will just hop on a boat and follow us or so the crazies want us to believe.You cant reason with crazy people........

Psycho4Bud

04-23-2007, 01:27 PM

Yeah med its crazy and they think that way too...oohh were saving the world and spreading democracy what a fucking joke.Med the fucking history books will not see it their way either.

LOL....sounds like the Reagan days all over again. History will tell the TRUE story.

They dont want to see the truth.Now they are starting to believe the rhetoric about Iran.

And what might that be?

The Bush administration actually believe if we bomb Iran the people will rebel against their own government.Now i dont believe that and neither should any one else.But these crazies think this way and its scary.Well we can only hope the next administration just gets the fuck outta Iraq.But then again the terrorists will just hop on a boat and follow us or so the crazies want us to believe.You cant reason with crazy people........

Only the FAR left wants us to cut and run.........thankfully their numbers are few.

As for the "elected left" with illusions of promises.....they know that cutting out isn't an option but I'm sure you all feel better with the non-binding resolutions they've come up with.

Have a good one!:s4:

medicinal

04-23-2007, 04:17 PM

Only the FAR left wants us to cut and run.........thankfully their numbers are few.

As for the "elected left" with illusions of promises.....they know that cutting out isn't an option but I'm sure you all feel better with the non-binding resolutions they've come up with.

Have a good one!:s4:
Not as few as you'd like to believe. I believe it's over 60% that want to stop the war:beatdeadhorse:
I'd feel a hell of a lot better if they stopped the slaughter of our young men and women and let the Iraqis fight their own battles. The only reasons we're still there are twofold, The oil and G,W.s overinflated ego! His ego is killing Americans. When will we wake the fuck up? Just think. If we killed a half dozen neocons, the war would be over. What makes more sense? a few warmongers, or a few thousand more troops and civilian casualtys. I'd vote for the warmongers.

Psycho4Bud

04-23-2007, 04:28 PM

When will we wake the fuck up?

I don't know my friend........the left confuses me too!:D

Have a good one!:s4:

growinforthefuture

04-23-2007, 04:40 PM

War blows. No country should ever be violent towards another country except in self-defence from an invasion.

No grey areas in that; end of story.

YES~!! thank you and as there are no gray areas the US army is in THE WRONG!!! THE "INSURGFENTS" ARE DEFENDING.. THEY ARE IN THE RIGHT!~

FUCK YOUR TROOPS! VICTORY TO THOSE WHO OPPOSE THE CAPITALIST EMPIRE AND THE WAR-MACHINE

medicinal

04-23-2007, 04:45 PM

I don't know my friend........the left confuses me too!:D

Have a good one!:s4:

Taken out of context: they all confuse me. Is there not one lick of common sense left in politics. A. killing for oil or more likely, young Americans dying for oil. B. Oil is the largest cause of global warming, Hydrocarbon emissions. C. Insanity dictates more of the same. : Definition of insanity; doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We've been dying for the elites since time began, over and over and over, insane. Time for a change! :beatdeadhorse:

Psycho4Bud

04-23-2007, 04:46 PM

FUCK YOUR TROOPS! VICTORY TO THOSE WHO OPPOSE THE CAPITALIST EMPIRE AND THE WAR-MACHINE

I'm sure that they wish you the best also..........

Have a good one!:s4:

Psycho4Bud

04-23-2007, 05:02 PM

medicinal

04-23-2007, 05:37 PM

YES~!! thank you and as there are no gray areas the US army is in THE WRONG!!! THE "INSURGFENTS" ARE DEFENDING.. THEY ARE IN THE RIGHT!~

FUCK YOUR TROOPS! VICTORY TO THOSE WHO OPPOSE THE CAPITALIST EMPIRE AND THE WAR-MACHINE

So whats life like in the Sudan? Is pot legal there. It's always nice to hear a perspective from a country in the general area of the conflicts the USA puts us into. I'm pretty sure your country is on our list of suspects, most are. Do you live by Kartoum, or on the red sea. I'm always interested in hearing from other countries, we are pretty brainwashed in the good old USA. They try and keep much of the real news from around the world from us. I can understand why you're so anti-American, but let me say this: It's the government you should dislike not the people. there are here as I'm sure over there a lot of good hard working people that wish this government would stop it's world policeman role and just take care of our own people. Best of luck to you and as the mod said, take your anger out on groups and governments, not individuals.

mrdevious

04-23-2007, 05:39 PM

I'd feel a hell of a lot better if they stopped the slaughter of our young men and women and let the Iraqis fight their own battles.]

So after invading their nation, slaughtering hundreds of thousands of their people, and destabalizating their country, it's now fair to just pull out and "let the Iraqis fight their own battles"? Sorry, but under Saddam there was order and law and none of this insurgent crap would have been tolerated. America went in and gave criminals and murderer's the run of the place, now you want to give them full run of the place? It's easy to say "let them fight among themselves", but it's America's intervention that caused the fighting in the first place, and now it's America's responsibility to fulfill their promise to the Iraqi people. They already did a great job pissing off the middle east the first time they told the Iraqi's to rise up against Saddam with impending liberation, then left them high and dry to be killed/tortured/imprisoned when it didn't happen. You can't just destabalize the whole region now and say "well, it's your mess now".

medicinal

04-23-2007, 05:59 PM

BTW Mr. Growinforthefuture, You folks have a shitpotful of trouble in your own country, does Darfur ring a bell, Janjaweed etc..... I think you should look to your government for some improvements before going off on ours, we'll take care of dissing our own govt. At least we can do that without fear of being shot, for now.

medicinal

04-23-2007, 06:13 PM

Fengzi

04-23-2007, 09:38 PM

So after invading their nation, slaughtering hundreds of thousands of their people, and destabalizating their country, it's now fair to just pull out and "let the Iraqis fight their own battles"? Sorry, but under Saddam there was order and law and none of this insurgent crap would have been tolerated. America went in and gave criminals and murderer's the run of the place, now you want to give them full run of the place? It's easy to say "let them fight among themselves", but it's America's intervention that caused the fighting in the first place, and now it's America's responsibility to fulfill their promise to the Iraqi people. They already did a great job pissing off the middle east the first time they told the Iraqi's to rise up against Saddam with impending liberation, then left them high and dry to be killed/tortured/imprisoned when it didn't happen. You can't just destabalize the whole region now and say "well, it's your mess now".

I agree with mrdevious, going in was absolutely wrong but leaving now would be worse. "Sorry we fucked up your country, now you deal with it" . This war has seriously fucked up our image abroad and if we were to bail out now, and everything go to shit, it would be disastrous. That being said, I do feel that Georgie's current plan is getting us nowhere fast. This isn't a war of attrition, we are never going to kill enough insurgents to make them stop. They're never going to wave the white flag then sit down at a table, along with a gloating George Bush, and sign surrender papers. We need to redefine what "win" means at this point. Winning should mean the Iraqi's are better off when we leave than when we got there, period. Whether or not that ends up being a high point on Dubya's resume really shouldn't matter.

Fengzi

04-23-2007, 09:43 PM

To all........if you want to pick out a group to rip on, etc........fine. IF you desire to pick out a single person in here with unwarrented insults you'll be shown the door.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

Ok, fair enough. Groups of people like growinforthefuture, who wish our troops harm and victory to the insurgents, can all fuck themselves.

Psycho4Bud

04-24-2007, 12:14 AM

Ok, fair enough. Groups of people like growinforthefuture, who wish our troops harm and victory to the insurgents, can all fuck themselves.

For the record........my statement wasn't in regards to that post but to another members who is currently on a vacation.

When I first read the comment made I was undecided how to deal with it....being from the "right" I didn't want to come across one sided in here. It seems though with the feedback given it not only offended me but the middle and a bit on the left also.

These soldiers volenteered to do a job that most people don't have the balls to do. They don't pick the missions but follow the orders and I find comments on this level completely disrespectful and in the future will NOT be tolorated!

If you want to badmouth the country, her politics, leaders.........great, BUT show respect for those that HAVE TO follow the orders.

ANY feedback regarding this is welcome!

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

fishman3811

04-24-2007, 02:33 AM

P4B i totally agree with you on this one.Nobody should bad mouth the soldiars in Iraq because they are only following orders its not their fault that they are in this shit whole called Iraq.Yes theire are crimes comitted by U.S soldiars in Iraq but thats not our job to judge them all.I hope every American kid gets out of their in one peace.

Psycho4Bud

04-24-2007, 03:33 AM

Thanks dude.........much respect!:thumbsup:

It's nice to see an issue that both sides can agree on.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

growinforthefuture

04-24-2007, 05:57 AM

its been like 6 years.. you can get out of a bad thing. its kinda a moral issue. i don't work for the us military or wal-mart for the same reason.... and bTW who did I personally attack?!?!?! how did I get an infraction?!?! i just disapproved and told you so psycho... i didn't attack no one. BTW i am not sudanese, my flag is Palestinian i think. I am sadly an American actually.. i just support palestine and the international solidarity movement I just hate my government, and the pople who think they need to over defend it.

medicinal

04-24-2007, 08:38 AM

growinforthefuture

04-24-2007, 01:50 PM

he well it says Palestine on my thing.. Sudan.. they kinda sketch me out. Un-like Irag Sudan actually has been linked directly to state-supported terrorrism against the US.

anyhow there are 2 sides to this war and they are both wrong in some way, and the insurgents may be partially in the right.. violence is not the asnwer thoyugh... it wasn;t i guess it is now, thanbks to U.S> ANY TROOPS IN IRAQ ARE THERE BY CHOICE, and I really don't care about em one way or another.. i would just rathe people like that not return to myu country.

Fengzi

04-24-2007, 04:17 PM

Flag is sudanese, checked it twice

Actually growinforthe future is right. The Sudanese flag has a green triangle on the left and a red strip on top. The Palastinian flag has a red triangle with a black stripe on top. They look almost the same.

Are you color blind medicinal? I mean that seriously. Folks who are color blind usually mix up red and green.

Fengzi

04-24-2007, 04:24 PM

thanbks to U.S> ANY TROOPS IN IRAQ ARE THERE BY CHOICE, and I really don't care about em one way or another.. i would just rathe people like that not return to myu country.

I beg to differ with you here. I'd be willing to bet that most trops in Iraq are not there by their choice but by that fucknut's(George Bush's) choice. These guys signed up for an important job, defending our country, and I salute them for it. There were just dumb enough not to have the foresight that some moron like Bush would come along and send them off to war for the wrong reason.

I do agree with you that violence is not the answer. We need to sit down and find a peaceful way to end this. But oh no, we don't negotiate with terrorists :rolleyes:

Psycho4Bud

04-24-2007, 04:30 PM

There were just dumb enough not to have the foresight that some moron like Bush would come along and send them off to war for the wrong reason.

Speaking on a visit to Kazakhstan, Mr Putin said Russia had warned the US on several occasions that Iraq was planning "terrorist attacks" on its soil.

"After the events of 11 September 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services several times received such information and passed it on to their American colleagues," he told reporters.

He said the information received by Russian intelligence suggested Iraq was planning attacks in the United States, "and beyond its borders on American military and civilian targets".
BBC NEWS | Americas | Putin says Iraq planned US attack (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3819057.stm)

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
George S. Patton

Have a good one!:s4:

medicinal

04-24-2007, 04:39 PM

Actually growinforthe future is right. The Sudanese flag has a green triangle on the left and a red strip on top. The Palastinian flag has a red triangle with a black stripe on top. They look almost the same.

Are you color blind medicinal? I mean that seriously. Folks who are color blind usually mix up red and green.

Nope not colorblind. Check out my avatar, got it right off the google flag page under Sudan. And notice it's identical to growinforthefutures country of origin flag. I'm tired of:beatdeadhorse: so make up your own mind.

Psycho4Bud

04-24-2007, 04:47 PM

medicinal

04-24-2007, 04:48 PM

Speaking on a visit to Kazakhstan, Mr Putin said Russia had warned the US on several occasions that Iraq was planning "terrorist attacks" on its soil.
Do you think Putin was smart enough to know we'd go there and create this huge debacle that would bankrupt us and cause us to be the most feared and hated country on the planet. Maybe he is smarter than we give him credit for. When this war is over (If ever) this country will be a shell of what we were before the war. Bush will be called the worst president ever, and the dollar won't be worth Buttkiss. Pretty good chess playing by Putin I'd say!

Psycho4Bud

04-24-2007, 04:54 PM

Do you think Putin was smart enough to know we'd go there and create this huge debacle that would bankrupt us and cause us to be the most feared and hated country on the planet.

From the article:
But he said it did not change Russia's opposition to the war in Iraq.

"Despite that information... Russia's position on Iraq remains unchanged," he said.

Between oil contracts and military arms sales this really wasn't in Russia's best interests. I see your point but...............

Have a good one!:s4:

Fengzi

04-24-2007, 04:57 PM

"...some Iraqi taxi diver named Mohamed, who lives in New York, and who has a neighbor who works with a Saudi guy who's 2nd cousin, twice removed, once brushed up againt Osmai Bin Laden, when both were 2 years old..."

I got to hand it to you Psycho, you sure can find these Iraq/terrorists connections. Good thing you're not on Dubya's staff. He might still have the majority of American's still buying his bullshit.

medicinal

04-24-2007, 05:03 PM

I just pulled up a google search........the first is Sudan (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/su.html) the second Palestine (http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/meaning_of_flag.htm).

Have a good one!:s4:

Well you're right I checked another site. They had the wrong flag on the site I checked, Go figure. BTW how could you post pictures, I cant figure that out, is that a mod thingy?

Fengzi

04-24-2007, 05:15 PM

Well you're right I checked another site. They had the wrong flag on the site I checked, Go figure. BTW how could you post pictures, I cant figure that out, is that a mod thingy?

anyone can post pics. When you post go down to the additional options section, then go to manage attachments, that will allow you to upload pics

Psycho4Bud

04-24-2007, 09:39 PM

medicinal ...LMAO.......glad it's working for ya!

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

Psycho4Bud

04-24-2007, 09:43 PM

I got to hand it to you Psycho, you sure can find these Iraq/terrorists connections. Good thing you're not on Dubya's staff. He might still have the majority of American's still buying his bullshit.

LOL...I always thought that the BBC was considered a reputable site....Hell, even Great Spirit used to say that he'd believe it if it was printed by the BBC.

I know that the truth hurts sometimes but there will always be room in the darkside for ya....:vader1:

Have a good one!:s4:

Fengzi

04-24-2007, 09:49 PM

LOL...I always thought that the BBC was considered a reputable site....Hell, even Great Spirit used to say that he'd believe it if it was printed by the BBC.

I know that the truth hurts sometimes but there will always be room in the darkside for ya....:vader1:

Have a good one!:s4:

Well, ya got me there. But, since the BBC is so reliable, let's add a bit more of the article. Seems you forgot to post these lines.

"Mr Putin said he had no information the Iraqi ex-leader was behind any attacks."

""But we did not have information that they were involved in any terrorist acts whatsoever and, after all, these are two different things."

Psycho4Bud

04-24-2007, 09:52 PM

Well, ya got me there. But, since the BBC is so reliable, let's add a bit more of the article. Seems you forgot to post these lines.

"Mr Putin said he had no information the Iraqi ex-leader was behind any attacks."

""But we did not have information that they were involved in any terrorist acts whatsoever and, after all, these are two different things."

He wasn't involved with any previous attacks BUT was planning on future ones according to the article. Should have we waited for the episode first? Either way it would have been ass whoopin' time......the difference would have been dead civilians on our shores.

Have a good one!:s4:

jawndoe

04-24-2007, 10:08 PM

I don't recall anything on the Brits helping but who knows.....I'll do a bit of research on that one. As for the Harpoon missiles.......they are NOT a nuclear device.
AGM-84 Harpoon/SLAM - Smart Weapons (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-84.htm)

The missle itself is not a nuclear device but they can be equiped with small nuclear warheads. Which are commonly called tactical nukes....

The warhead section can be replaced by an exercise section which transmits missile performance data for collection and analysis.

Which also means it can be replaced with a nuke.

Fengzi

04-24-2007, 10:34 PM

He wasn't involved with any previous attacks BUT was planning on future ones according to the article. Should have we waited for the episode first? Either way it would have been ass whoopin' time......the difference would have been dead civilians on our shores.

Have a good one!:s4:

Well shit Psycho, ya got me sold. Let's just wipe 'em all out. Every last Muslim there is. While we're at it, let's take out the Hindu's and those fucking Buddhists too. Always talking about karma and shit. We all know they ain't meditating. They're just thinking real hard, planning something big. So why wait, the only way to be safe is to take them out now. Right??

medicinal

04-24-2007, 11:44 PM

Well shit Psycho, ya got me sold. Let's just wipe 'em all out. Every last Muslim there is. While we're at it, let's take out the Hindu's and those fucking Buddhists too. Always talking about karma and shit. We all know they ain't meditating. They're just thinking real hard, planning something big. So why wait, the only way to be safe is to take them out now. Right??

Can you say KaBoom?images[1].jpg (3.5 KB)

fishman3811

04-25-2007, 12:33 AM

Yep the thought police are at it again.There is a big difference between wanting to do a terror strike and actually doing it.

fishman3811

04-25-2007, 12:34 AM

P4B Stop humping my head......get away aaaawwwww

Psycho4Bud

04-25-2007, 01:30 AM

Psycho4Bud

04-25-2007, 01:32 AM

P4B Stop humping my head......get away aaaawwwww

LOL.......take that, and THAT, AND THAT!!!!!!!:asskick:

Have a good one!:s4:

Fengzi

04-25-2007, 04:19 PM

DAMN........I said come to the darkside NOT get lost in the abyss. :eek:

Have a good one!:s4:

Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.
Hatred leads to power.
Power leads to victory.
Let your anger flow through you.
Your hate will make you strong.
True power is only achieved through
testing the limits of one's anger,
passing through unscathed.
Rage channeled through anger is unstoppable.
The dark side of the Force
offers unimaginable power.
The dark side is stronger than the light.
The weak deserve their fate.