how many plants will my setup flower

[MRovergrow]

i currently have a 5foot by 5 foot floor plan with an 8foot hight in a walk in closet. theres a huge 2foot by 3 foot home made air cooled 400watt hps in the center with many side lights. i run 4 2foot floro tubes on the dimest lit wall spaced evenly every 1 foot, and 4 four foot floro tubes on eather side of the hps hood. a total of 520 watts. 400hps. i have many more lights to add if need be but i would like to cover every ince of floor space with plants 3 feet tall before i flower. how many plants can i cram into my space? im guessing 100 give or take if i use many long and thin pots on risers combined with 1-5gal's. painted water bottles with cut off tops, and strait sides make great pots and 16 fit into a sq foot. 16X25=400plants?

[bongerstonerd00d]

You are going to veg 100 plants to 3 feet and THEN flower ????? And do all this on a 5'x5' footprint ??? Tell me you are not serious........this is just a chain yankin post.......

If you are going to flower plants at 3 feet in height you need enough HPS lights to illuminate a Super Wal Mart parking lot. I'd poke around in the FAQ's for 3 or so months, then I'd worry about growing.


b0nger

[MRovergrow]

i have growen and flowered over 100 plants in my day. indoor and out door. from merical grow mishaps to promix. currently growing 8 plants under 520watts and im having no problems at all. tallest plant is about 3 foot from bottom of pot, begging to go into a 20-30gallon pot. im using pure farfard soils with an extreamly light 6month slow release fert. i know they are to be avoided but this one is premixed and comes with lime and phed to 7. after about a month i start using alaskin fish emultion 5-1-1- petters 4-16-8 strong start, superthrive, and rooting hormon depending on the plants needs/nut probs. seen em all and a combo of the above listed can clear up almost n e thing.

[xcrispi]

They'll be rootbound long before 3 ft. esp. in such lil containers .
Do a lil more research , and how about some pics of the enviroment you have for them , we might be able to help a lil more w/ more than just a mental pic.

100 in a 5 x 5 will never happen , muchless that large . Usually as a rule you need 1 gal. of room in a pot per 1 foot of vert. plant desired .

Peace
Crispi :jointsmile:

[MRovergrow]

i understand all rules and laws that go with growing pot, and i have 25 one gallon pots but i want to really blow the top off this grow with insain yield numbers. the idea behind my madness is maxamise root systems=maxamise buds. no matter the end numbers i will use pots way to large for my plants and lst or top to mantain an even canopy. sry about pic's i have many from past grows in c22's and what not but i cant seem to find my digital cam, maby i can make do with a scanned poloride just to give a good idea of what im working with. i have a huge potential for massive plants with towering colas totaly surrounding my hood in the past i have pulled a half p dry from one plant scroged under a 4by2foot screan and 150watt hps. with nothing more than a 5gallon shallow pot, i think the overall hight wasent over 2.5feet, with 50 budsites all exactly the same hight each swelling to 7g+. i added some pics of my last 150watt scrog i mentioned for refrence. the hood is my smaller hps currently out of service. replaced by a kit ballest i built using an old militart water proof ammo case for ballest box and an old extention cord. works great but it gets so hot i have to draw my intake from the case just to counter act the heat build up seeing as the balast transformer is the hotest thing in the room by far. 130F+

[stinkyattic]

you can't flower bushes in a 5x5 with a 400hps, and expect maximum efficiency or anything even close, it simply doesn't have the power. try a SOG flowering clones at ~10 inches under a 1000hps or a couple of them in that small space, or 4 x 400hps in that space.

[MRovergrow]

how the hell can i vent such massive lights, and will i blow my breaker with over 1000watt loads. i know the lower branchest will be way under lit givin 3 foot to 6 foot finishing hight but many many floresent toobs lineing the walls will counter act this making for 5 walls of light all directed inward or so i hope. atm escaping light is so intence from under the door it takes 3 blankets over the large window in the room just to hide it, im guessing the largest plant suffered light burns dew to being bent under the hood 2 inches, i was playing around with the closest my lights could go 2 the plants. as far as i can tell touching the hood is a nice 80F a mear 2 nches from the bulb. correct me if im wrong but is that not the closest distance possible with out heat damage. emagion 100s of budds all evenly spaced under such a hood. growth resembles outdoor results in the past as far as nod spacing.

[stinkyattic]

how the hell can i vent such massive lights, and will i blow my breaker with over 1000watt loads. .
snippy eh?

Well that's up to you... the greatest skills a grower can posess are patience, willingness to learn, and a healthy DIY problem-solving talent. I can tell you from firsthand experience that a 5x5 walk-in WILL accept 2000 watts of light WITHOUT use of cool tubes, no shit, and by staggering the ignition of the 2 lights, there will be no breakers popping (FUSES blow, btw), and with properly installed ductwork with an active intake AND exhaust, you can keep temps in the correct range.

But it seems that you are going to do it your way no matter what anyone tells you so why bother asking?

BTW I'd love to know how you pulled the half P under a 150... the half gram per watt of HID per month rule would have you at a little over 2 zs dry... :wtf: and almost no one actually hits that .5g/w/m mark!

[MRovergrow]

well to be honest i did line the sides with clfs so the combined wattage for the grow was a little over 220. 350grams means i was well under .5gpw. the stem structre was insain starting from 4 main stems weaved to cover a solid grid with a single growth site per 1inch square. total time start to finish was over 4months vedge alone. any tips on improving my current venting system welcom. via 4inch duct into roof with passive intake coming from the crack formed by the door when shut. as far as i can tell 95% of the air is drawen from the house as long as i shut my centrial ac off, keeping temps under 85F. more fans and more moving air maby?

[stinkyattic]

A half pound is 224 grams, and the formula only counts HID light, and only counts it in the flowering room... you can add a LITTLE for flouros but not much, I'll give ya 200watts.
With a 2 month flowering strain, this is your GOAL:
((0.5g/200w)/30d)
So you have 100g per month, and a 2 month strain, that gives you 200grams total, and that is actually considered a level attained by an experienced indoor grower with everything dialed in perfectly.
Anyway not to argue about that...
Your problem is that you don't have 'real' ventilation. A passive intake (=crack under door) can't handle the heat from HID lighting.
You're going to want another exhaust placed high up... oh fuck it, there's someone doing this exact space, here's a link to her log....

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/103361-foxysox-back-game-p.html

She's growin in the same size walk-in closet and has the capacity to flower ~ 50 plants finishing at ~1-2 feet each under 2000w total. The plants have to go in as 10 inch clones, rooted and then vegged for a couple weeks. She isn't finished getting her clone production up and running so the plants that are in there aren't quite the way they are eventually going to be, and she's only got one of the 1k HPS turned on atm.

[MRovergrow]

i would like to acheave somthing similar to foxysox grow space, given the fact i dont want to devide my space and have to tend so many diffrent plant cycles. i guess u guys are right in thinking i need more hps lighting. time to figure out how to get a second hood in the venting chain, and where best to place it. may the temps in south tx stay low all summer and the humidity high.

[xcrispi]

25 - 1 gal. pots sog , veg . till 10 in. tall ? Be reasonable .

5' x 5' = 25 sq ' x 50 watts per sq = 1250 watts for your closet for optimum conditions and your nowhere near it even w/ add. tubes n cfls. Plus the ability to vent. it and have tonsa fresh air . It's all about having the firepower / lumens , an effective reasonable plan , and lotsa research .

G.P.W - the best I have seen is 336 grams 12 oz. from a 400 hps = .84 G.P.W. That was done w/ only 3 w/w clones using scrog . Look up JustASeed "LOVELY LADIES" thread . I have Mad respect for him , best / most productive use of space I have ever seen . Thats after 2-3 yrs practice w/ just scrog , not 2-3 years total under his belt . You dont need those crazy plant count numbers to yeild well .

My personal best after 17 yrs of playing off and on is .68 G.P.W
w/ 290,000 lumens -2000w. and only 4 plants . And my sis. Stinky and a cpl. others here helped in their own little ways . Shes your friend wether ya know it or not . A mind boggling wealth of info she is !

Peace
Crispi :jointsmile:

[foxysox]

Ohhey sup, I just updated actually.
You want to keep your humidity LOOOOW!!!! Mine stays in the high 20s.
The thing is I DO have a second grow space which is a small mother/cloning closet. You can easily build one with a portable tool shed like Xcrispi did. His is VERY nice.
I've only got a single 1000 going right now because I don't have enough plants to fill the space, but doing all the work myself, the total is going to be:
2x1000HPS Sunsystem X.... $350 each including all the toys
1x400HPS inside sun... I think it was like $150... it's for the first 2 weeks that the plants are in that room, I can just cram a whole bunch under there because they are still short and the light penetration isn't a problem.. it's suitable for only a 3x3 foot floor space, hung ~20 inches from the plants
Exhaust shit... 2 duct booster fans, $30 each at home depot, 16 feet of flexible duct hose, the good shit, not that plastic crap, $25 also at home dePOT, and a roll of duct tape. You have to wire that shit yourself.
Okay also a bunch of Panda film to make a light-lock entryway where I can keep additional fans... even though I have an active intake, there's a fan in the entryway blowing even more air around the edges of the film. That fan only comes on when the lights are on but the duct fans are on 24 hours a day to make sure temperatures remain not constant, but dont fluctuate more than 15 degrees.
The room that the closet is off has an air conditioner in it that is on a thermostat and runs when temps get above 70, and the closet stays below 85.
MR Overgrow I can't say this enough!! You need LOTS of airflow and LOTS of light.

ima go copy part of this post back into my log too.

[MRovergrow]

here is an idea of my current light placment. u can see the 4 footer and 2 footer toobs and where i have em. any advice where i could/should add additional watts. im no plant but dam its bright in there even with one wall cluttered. seems to me the next best thing would be to splurge on a giant role of milar and get that crap off the back wall to make room for the 150 watter. maby even work on a larger pasive intake to counter act the increase in air flow. by means of a think plastic "light lock" . would this be a wast in the shaddow of my 400watter?

[stinkyattic]

The flouro tubes are uneccessary, trust me, just get a 1kHID in there and use the flouros to start your tomato seedlings under or somethin. Or use them for your cloning area, f'real, that's a good place for flouros, which have no place in a 'real' flowering room... fine if you are growing a lowryder in an old computer case... pointless in a nice walk in closet... I mean, you've got the space, you should use it.

[MRovergrow]

thank u that is basicly what i am going at. am i wasting my time with all the xtras the plants seem to respond well when the supplemental lights are on rather than off. 0 rotating has to be one of the most odvious.

[MRovergrow]

just checked hight for kicks and the largest female i have is pushing 30inches with out pot mantaining atm giving me about..... 1-2 months to decide when i want to flower before i pass the point of no return. i cant bring my self to top the mighty xmas tree. im contomplating the idea of using the 150 for my single large female, and relying on many many toped and tied clones along with what ever els comes from the bagseeds i have. this would put me at 690watts over my space. 550h.i.d. i know its not even 25watts a sq foot but i think i will manage, with reflective walls and hanging cpfs where ever there is a shadow.

[stinkyattic]

I think the biggest concept you are missing overall is light penetration.
Flourescent light does not penetrate foliage well at all.
HID lighting does but tall plants indoors are NOT efficient! You said you'd had good luck with a scrog... that whole style is designed so that penetration of light into the plant's foliage is a nonissue, because the plant is PLANAR. a TREE is 3-dimensional, lol... if you are going to use a 150 on her, you have to tilt her on her side and train the branches more into a plane... get it?
The benefit of a big ass light is that it CAN penetrate deeply.
Better yet, a 1000HPS under a 4-foot parabolic... ooooooooh sexy baby!!! THAT'S the way to do it!!!
You should see the bushy lil monsters BlueBear was showing off that he grew under paras. mm mm good.

IMHO at 30 inches if you are going to hemm and haw over whether that plant is ready to flower, you need to get going on tying her down NOW becaue you have already passed the point of no return for an untrained plant indoors. That bitch is gonna double in size, and your little light can NOT effectively illuminate a 60+ inch plant, period.

[MRovergrow]

well i just took another peek at the closet to brain storm and came to the conclusion that penatration is not a problem at all. even at a distance of 2 feet the 400 watter keeps em nice and stocky. i get what all of u are saying, stop the bull shit and get a 1k hps so u can grow real buds but i have what i have.....FYI the plant i refered to as 30inches has growen an inch sence i last checked, maby that superthrive dose do somthing..lol watered some time last night. i like the idea of growing on a slope might just try that one out if it dosent retart normal root growth. plz dont mind the crude pics i just have so many ideas and 2 hours till lights off..

[stinkyattic]

even at a distance of 2 feet the 400 watter keeps em nice and stocky. ..right BUT it is not going to FINISH at 2 feet! That's why you have to either tie down or get a more powerful light.
Or get a 600 (GREAT light, very efficient) and run both... with multiple points of light in the smae small space you have a little more wiggle room with penetration... oooooh that does NOT sound good... lol

[MRovergrow]

could u point out the dark side of runing multible H.I.D. lamps cuz in another 5min im gona be riping out weeks of work and doing a totaly revamp. mylar the works. i emagion air cooling more than one hps light would be vary diffacult but if u used increasingly larger duck sizes as i went from light to light wouldent that reduce the total resistance. i cant see that lil fucking 150 runing cooler than my air hood, even in the dead of winter the whole hood is made of plexie glass and holds heat quite well. it would give me 10 diffrent points of penatration from all sides but below. i am aware that i am stuck with a 3 foot plant and i did this intentionaly to force my self to keep one nice traditional looking plant with one large cola. advice on training such a large nicely shaped tree with out losing that main bud?

[stinkyattic]

could u point out the dark side of runing multible H.I.D. lamps ........ i emagion air cooling more than one hps light would be vary diffacult but if u used increasingly larger duck sizes as i went from light to light wouldent that reduce the total resistance..?well you know the dark side obviously, lol!! it's running more duct. But you can do a LOT to control temps with ROOM intake/exhaust... I wasn't even talking hood exhaust, I have never even used an air cooled hood! lol Look at foxy's shit too... it's BASIC. Those aren't even GOOD duct fans, and they're a couple of the cheapest bottom of the bargain bin reflecotrs you can buy! :D
I don't know how much benefit you'd get from the varying duct sizes; to decrease resistance obviously the bigger the better, plus a SMOOTH interior surface, but that isn't always possible with flexi duct, ya know?


it would give me 10 diffrent points of penatration from all sides but below.? um I'm confused, 10? is that with flouros? I think this is still wicked complicated for what you are trying to do... just a couple medium sized HIDs.. if you already have a 400 and a 150 and buy one more 600 there you have 3 points of light and really flouros on top of that seems like a major pain in the hinders.


i am aware that i am stuck with a 3 foot plant and i did this intentionaly to force my self to keep one nice traditional looking plant with one large cola. advice on training such a large nicely shaped tree with out losing that main bud?
Sure, tip her over! If she needs to be repotted soon, repot her so that the main stem is coming out of the pot at an ANGLE, and tie it that way. You'll still have the dominant tip plus the side growth will be nicer.

Okay now say with me slowly:

Keep
It
Simple
Stoner

lol

[MRovergrow]

wow that is a great idea ty at least i have a game plan now. u are right about all the lights being a pain, raises temps quite a bit. will update when i get around to repoting, and moding current mounting locations for lights. as for my reason to air cool, all i can say is why not? it dose nothing but good. i find that constant turbulant air flow over leaves tends to dry them out much to fast. i have alwayz battled heat and air flow thanks to my resadence in south TX and harsh summers.

[stinkyattic]

Well there is no reason why you cannot run cooled hoods AND still cool the whole room.
Given the choice though I would say cool the whole room (if you could only do one or the other) and this is because you HAVE to have a source of fresh air, this is not optional!! Unless you are doing a TRUE sealed room and I have no experience with, nor do I desire to fuck with, one of those. f'real. LOTS of tweaking. It's for nerds lol.

Dry leaves... have your intake duct blowing in among the pots rather than right on the leaves..you'll still have a couple little fans scattered around the room... helps prevent mold and shit too. And keep up on watering. Generally dry leaves are not a result of the air flow; if it really IS a transpiration problem the plant will look wilted like it hasn't been getting enough water, when the leaves go crispy-dry like that I'm gonna say it was actually straight heat stress.
okay I gotta run, that's all you get for today, now go build something. :D

[MRovergrow]

thanks for the input. im on it man painting 20 pots and prepairing to repot the monster after some carful cuts and dilagent placment of lighting/venting. got a bad feeling that the bitch is pot bound as a mug, and to top it off i just watered 12 hours ago. ;-( should be intresting eather way. well im off to move some boxes and shit while my paint drys on my make shift pots lol

[MRovergrow]

transplant was a sucess to my surprize the root ball was a solid mass and came out quite easly despite being totaly saturated with water. i took stinkyattic's advice and droped that baby as a 45 angle. gona hope for the best never heard of it being done but makes sence in my situation. the pot sits in the corner out of the way and the massive plant stretchest right to the center of the hps despite the angle. giving me much more space to play with. my only question is if i will have to tie her down to prevent her from fixing the angle which atm is giving every shoot optimal light. the weight of the plant alone is pulling it down quite far. any advice guys? seeing as my lights have been off for hours i think ima give it a rest for today.

[MRovergrow]

i just came home to find my house surronded by suv's and cops, any advice as to what i should do with my grow? im so parranoid right now i have all lights and timers and fans unpluged. please help if u have any ideas to help me salvage my harvest

[MRovergrow]

false alarm, dam neighbors had somthing big happend causing half the fleet to stake out there house

[stinkyattic]

when you transplant a plant at an angle like that it's a good idea to stake it for support. and yeah you still need to keep her tied in that angle or she will grow back up towards the light.

yikes if your neighbors are unstable be super extra stealth!!! i'd be freaked the fuck right out too.

[MRovergrow]

dam strait, i take every precaution and am not afraid to kill em if it comes down to it. got scanner on 24/7 and a nice pare of snips handy in the b room lol. as far as i can see the plant loves the angle despite the fact the main growth shoot seems to wana grow horazontal. thanks for the idea over 20 shoots now face the lights covering 3sq feet easy. whats your opinion on using large styrophome coolers "used to ship dryice and meat" with drainage for super sized pots?? 10-20gallon i think, my alternitave it paying out the ass for square pots using all avalible space. thanks for the info, never woulda thought of growing at a 45, heard of an upside down pot plant once but it seemed like a worth while idea.

[MULLETMAN]

this is some good shit. Whats up with yall. Curious to see how this one turns out. Is your plant a female and what light cycle do you have her/him on? If it were me I'd use the 400 without anything else. Reduce heat, clutter i dont know just seems the practical way. Oh yeah for peats sake go pick up your plant, probably got dirt on the floor and start slowly tying her down. Use that 400 air cooled or not think your safe in the big closet for a while but if it's already gettin in the 90's where you live go air cooled, besides you can get the plant that much closer. Good Luck, and oh yeah, pick that plant up.

[MRovergrow]

well the monster on its side was force flowered at 1month old along with 3 outhers so atm i have 3 shure fire girls with preflowers all over, along with 10-20 some odd random plants started after i decided 1 foot plants would not yield shit. i thought about one monter under the 400 but im after pounds not a 1 pound cola. she finaly decided to turn twords the light but the main stem it so strong its never gona straiten up unless i force it, so yes i tied in place. i would estamate i have covered about 20-30% of my floor space so theres about 50 sprouts going in tonight off to the side under a nice mix of hps/floro's. u guys think i can get a decent ground cover with these plant numbers? dont tell me i know im stupid for so many but why not? i have the dirt, ferts and in my opinion the lights. FYI i will have pics as soon as i find my old poloride or cash for film. its really amazing what u can do with fish emultion and a lil super thrive on the side. o ya timers run 18/6 yes TIMERS, i figure if the floros never run a full 18 i can save some $ and get good coverage. ex. hps run 9am-3pm floros run 9am-8p outher set runs 8p-3pm. reason behind this is 12-3 tends to be hotest part of the day. temps never a prob now.

[MRovergrow]

one more Q, where is the best place to take temp readings i read that theres ambiant temps and canopy temps. which one cant exceed 85F? best guess is canopy temps. "a homedepo exaust fan blows horazontaly accross my hps making things quite even."

[MRovergrow]

after repoting and weeding out 2 males the space left is about 50% covered with just 7 plants. lmao u guys were right i was trippin thinking i would need so many to use all my space. granted the female at a 45 angle takes up 1/3 of the fing room. its a beautiful 100% sativa forced to bush out with over 20 main shoots all level in hight :-) ty who ever told me to try the angle thing...amazingg

[MRovergrow]

had lil prob with comp but im back. well i have covered every inch of the space with 3 foot of plants. look like 12/12 in 2 more weeks. still workin on pics. one more thing, plant growen at angle has a stem almost 1/2 thick with 50 main shoots ;-) ty agen forget who suggested that.

[stinkyattic]

ty who ever told me to try the angle thing...amazingg

Word... you're welcome!

FYI I find it is also a fantastic way to encourage a potential mother plant to give you the greatest possible # of cloneable shoots.