3 Bladed Leaves, Stinky?....Anyone?....

[Chronic Chrissy]

OK so I'm noticing a pattern here. About 2 weeks before I put my almost 2 month old Northerns into flower 2 of them started with 3 bladed leaves. These two were a little abused as clones, so I shruged it off and raised the light to lower the heat a little more but it didn't seem needed. The went right down to single blades, now they've recovered and are growing normally.
Now the other two Northerns which are 2 weeks older, and this two weeks later, so they are a month ahead. We are a week into flower and all new growth appears to be 3 bladed.
I did a few searches and heard it could be heat, While in veg the first two were right under the light and I judged with my hand how high to put the light. But with the second two they have been in flower where the temp hasn't gone above 83. So I don't think it's heat. Plus these plants mothers went through temps as high as 89 with no problems last grow.
Or natural progression due to flowering, like when the plant first grows and increases leaves. But this didn't happen to the last plants, and this started before triggering flowering. So I don't think that's it.
I have been feeding them lightly, but flushed today. The run off was pretty yellow and came to a pH of about 5.8, and took a while to flush, so that could be a possibility.
Another possibility that pops into my mind is that this may be a clone, off a clone, off a clone, etc, so maybe the genes have been scrambled somewhere?
Anyone have any ideas?....

[Scarlet Sky]

i don't know for sure, crissy, but some of it i think is strain dependent.

for example; my sage goes three leaves if flowered outdoors. inside, she goes five. i'm at a loss, but i don't think it's to much of a bad thing...

[stinkyattic]

Well, I've grown a lot of different strains, and seen that plenty of times. It's really common... normal even.
For me, it has always happened after 12/12 is initiated... the # of blades starts to decrease, finally going down to a single blade coming out of the bud, as I'm sure you've noticed.
Another situation in which you will have something other than the normal 3 of leaves for the age of the plant is stress, which could be heat stress, cloning stress, etc. I call these 'stress leaves'... single blades that just appear like magic on a clone that is just rooted, as it tries to gather up as much light as possible without expending the energy to grow full 7-fingered leaves. Then when it is comfortable, you'll get 3 blades, then 5, just like a young seedling.
Another rare reason for single bladed leaves to appear is the polyploid condition caused by a failure at the RNA repair level, I believe. Check that out because I'm not sure... anyway it's nondisjunction of chromatids during meiosis, and you end up with a plant that has 3 sets of chromosomes instead of the normal 2. I think you can get this RARELY from cloning stress, but not sure of that either, anyway the plant may show ONLY single bladed leaves for its whole life! Weird... and no other problems! BTW this is why I get so snitty at people calling whorled phytolaxy 'polyploidy', grrr, let's not confuse things! Btu your hunch of clone off a clone scrambling genes is accurate.. . it's why you shoudl take great care not to stress your clones, because that's where you might have issues with DNA/RNA repair at the cut site.
Um okay I hope some of that sort of made sense... the long and short is, don't worry too much about it, but you need to get your temps down for SURE, unless you're running CO2 in a big way... more than just a yeast gen system.

[postmandave]

funny that stinky ive always called these stress leaves . i have a couble of b52 and they have over stressed due to mad ph fluxuatoin the first single fingered leaves were normal second set three fingered normal then they missed out the five fingered leaves and went straight to 7 fingered and then nine.The five fingered leaves must have been out on the town at the time of development so they sent out the 7 lol but it just shows the affects of stress but in flower they will start decreasing in leave numbers back down to the single leave.telling ye man this hydro is far harder than soil growin wish someone would have told me that lol.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Well, I've grown a lot of different strains, and seen that plenty of times. It's really common... normal even.
For me, it has always happened after 12/12 is initiated... the # of blades starts to decrease, finally going down to a single blade coming out of the bud, as I'm sure you've noticed.
Another situation in which you will have something other than the normal 3 of leaves for the age of the plant is stress, which could be heat stress, cloning stress, etc. I call these 'stress leaves'... single blades that just appear like magic on a clone that is just rooted, as it tries to gather up as much light as possible without expending the energy to grow full 7-fingered leaves. Then when it is comfortable, you'll get 3 blades, then 5, just like a young seedling.
Another rare reason for single bladed leaves to appear is the polyploid condition caused by a failure at the RNA repair level, I believe. Check that out because I'm not sure... anyway it's nondisjunction of chromatids during meiosis, and you end up with a plant that has 3 sets of chromosomes instead of the normal 2. I think you can get this RARELY from cloning stress, but not sure of that either, anyway the plant may show ONLY single bladed leaves for its whole life! Weird... and no other problems! BTW this is why I get so snitty at people calling whorled phytolaxy 'polyploidy', grrr, let's not confuse things! Btu your hunch of clone off a clone scrambling genes is accurate.. . it's why you shoudl take great care not to stress your clones, because that's where you might have issues with DNA/RNA repair at the cut site.
Um okay I hope some of that sort of made sense... the long and short is, don't worry too much about it, but you need to get your temps down for SURE, unless you're running CO2 in a big way... more than just a yeast gen system.
If I was a dude, I'd have a boner right now. You are so fucking smart it slays me.

[stinkyattic]

If I was a dude, I'd have a boner right now. You are so fucking smart it slays me.
awww shush you make me blush
ima go get some Indian food now... it had better be spicier this time than it was last week...fucking pussies over at the campus center, leaving out all the chilies...i emailed you greenjeans!

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

I read that post of yours to Papi. I think he's jealous. If it wasn't for the vegetable oil handjob this morning, he'd probably be mad.

I hit ya back.

[stinkyattic]

If it wasn't for the vegetable oil handjob this morning, he'd probably be mad.
.i hope you used canola oil or olive oil... peeps gotz to watch their cholesterol! :D

edit: i just realized i was posting that while scarfing a big plate of curried chicken, cooked, no doubt, in frickin' ghee... lol

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Grapeseed:D

I am envious of your curry. I don't have anything near as good going in my crib right now.

[stinkyattic]

it wasn't that good. I make it better. It was fucking institutional curry, blah.
BOOOO, college food.
I actually go the extra step of making the tandoori chicken first, and then doing up the sauce (mmmm chicken tikka masala) seperately.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

You're culinary skills are as great as your linguistics. You are a cunning linguist. (thank you Deep Purple)

[Chronic Chrissy]

OK so maybe the first two were just too abused as small clones. The other 2 I took clones off of about a week and a half ago so maybe while recovering it only formed three bladed leaves in the bud to reroute energy for repair, sound some what reasonable? So this really isn't a concern right? temps are in low 80's for the plant right under the light the others are mid 70's and the are rotated postion daily, and the light readjusted.

[stinkyattic]

wait you took a clone off a clone when the first clone had only just rooted? yeah no wonder! that's pretty much it; the single bladed leaves are the easiest for the plant to get the most light with the least effort expended.
but really you have absolutely nothing to worry about!

[Chronic Chrissy]

wait you took a clone off a clone when the first clone had only just rooted?

No, I took the clones off 1.5 month old previouse clones that were taken from clones that I got and don't know the generation of. I know we need some fresh genes.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Who's on first? What? No, What's on second.^
I dunno.

THIRD BASE.

[Chronic Chrissy]

wow confused