moon landing

[suhl]

well, was it faked? i have no reason to believe it was, except that there is really no prove it happened. i never even questioned it until the astronauts refused to lay their hands on the bible and swear it. so any of you conspiracy people have the background on this one:cool:

[Breukelen advocaat]

well, was it faked? i have no reason to believe it was, except that there is really no prove it happened. i never even questioned it until the astronauts refused to lay their hands on the bible and swear it. so any of you conspiracy people have the background on this one:cool:

Apollo 11 Astronaut Decks Filmmaker

BEVERLY HILLS, Calif., Sept. 11, 2002

(CBS) Apollo 11 astronaut Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin offered a spirited defense Wednesday as to why he decked a pushy filmmaker who wanted him to swear on a Bible that he really did go to the moon – self protection.

"Buzz Aldrin was forced to protect himself and his stepdaughter when he was aggressively confronted outside a Beverly Hills hotel," by independent Nashville filmmaker Bart Sibrel, publicist Robert O'Brien said in a prepared statement Tuesday.

The statement added that Sibrel "has reportedly harassed other Apollo Astronauts (across) the years."

Sibrel, 37, who has spent years trying to prove that American astronauts and especially Aldrin never landed on or walked on the moon, said Aldrin punched him in the jaw when he tried to conduct an ambush interview with him and then ran away.

Sibrel said he'd confronted Aldrin twice before and was surprised that Aldrin reacted the way he did this third time.

"I was very surprised that he hit me, I thought it was very foolish of him to do it in front of two video cameras," Sibrel said. "He has a good punch. It was quick too. I didn't see it coming."

He wants the Beverly Hills police to charge Aldrin with assault.

A police spokesman said police were investigating but had not yet spoken to Aldrin. Once the investigation is completed, its findings will be forwarded to the district attorney to see what, if any, action will be taken, the spokesman said.

The police spokesman added that witnesses have come forward stating that they saw Sibrel aggressively poke Aldrin with a Bible and that Sibrel had lured Aldrin to the hotel under false pretenses so that he could interview him.

Sibrel told Reuters, "I approached him and asked him again to swear on a Bible that he went to the moon, and told him he was a thief for taking money to give an interview for something he didn't do."

The incident was videotaped for a new Sibrel film, which claims to prove that the Apollo 11 astronauts faked footage of their July 1969 trip to the moon to fool the Soviet Union into thinking the United States had won the 1960s space race.

Aldrin was the second man to take a walk on the moon, a feat recorded on grainy black-and-white film footage and transmitted around the world on July 20, 1969.



© MMII, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press and Reuters Limited contributed to this report.
About.com: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/11/entertainment/main521663.shtml (http://urbanlegends.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/11/entertainment/main521663.shtml)

[Maggz]

Ask the global elite, the bankers, the puppetmasters..I'm sure they'll clarify that question for you.

[pabloescobar209]

It was filmed in nevada, there was a show on FOX years back showing all of the pictorial anomalies (fuck ups) in the filming and the photographs taken. One that comes to mind is an interview they had with the guy who designed the cameras the astronauts used, and showed him a picture taken by an astronaut of another astronaut on the moon with the sun behind the man in the photo. The problem with the picture is that the astronaut is lit up like he is standing infront of a bright light, meanwhile the cameras used had no flash and the only other source of light was the sun(which was behind him) making it impossible that it was taken on the moon. Another is a video of two different days of moon exploration where the same hill is recorded from the same spot, meanwhile they supposedly never filmed the same location of different days... I couldnt find the picture I was talking about, but I found another picture with the same fuck up

[WakingDream]

There are a few pictures of the moon landscape and the shadows are not all alligned correctly. Suggesting lighting mounted on the cealing of their studio. What about the picture where the crosshairs on the lense of the camera are BEHIND the image of something that was photoshopped onto the pic.

[Psycho4Bud]

Scientists who analyze data from the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment have reported some watershed results from these long-term experiments, begun 25 years ago when the Apollo 11 astronauts deployed a reflector array in the Sea of Tranquillity. "Using the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment, we have been able to improve, by orders of magnitude, measurements of the Moon's rotation," said Jet Propulsion Laboratory team investigator Dr. Jean Dickey. "We also have strong evidence that the Moon has a liquid core, and laser ranging has allowed us to determine with great accuracy the rate at which the Moon is gradually receding from the Earth."

The first laser ranging retroreflector was positioned on the Moon in 1969 by the Apollo 11 astronauts. By beaming laser pulses at the reflector from Earth, scientists have been able to determine the round-trip travel time that gives the distance between the two bodies at any time to an accuracy of about 3 centimeters. The laser reflector consists of 100 fused silica half-cubes, called corner cubes, mounted in a 46-centimeter square aluminum panel. Each corner cube is 3.8 centimeters in diameter. Corner cubes reflect a beam of light directly back toward the point of origin.
NASA - Accuracy of Eclipse Predictions (http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhelp/ApolloLaser.html)

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[bigfatty69]

It was filmed in nevada, there was a show on FOX years back showing all of the pictorial anomalies (fuck ups) in the filming and the photographs taken. One that comes to mind is an interview they had with the guy who designed the cameras the astronauts used, and showed him a picture taken by an astronaut of another astronaut on the moon with the sun behind the man in the photo. The problem with the picture is that the astronaut is lit up like he is standing infront of a bright light, meanwhile the cameras used had no flash and the only other source of light was the sun(which was behind him) making it impossible that it was taken on the moon. Another is a video of two different days of moon exploration where the same hill is recorded from the same spot, meanwhile they supposedly never filmed the same location of different days... I couldnt find the picture I was talking about, but I found another picture with the same fuck up

The sun's light reflects off of EVERYTHING giving the illusion of a flash. The light reflecting off the ground gives it that look. :thumbsup:

[Zimzum]

"The prevalence of conspiracy theories is astounding. Almost every historical event or observable phenomenon seems to have at least one conspiracy theory associated with it. Authors have proposed several reasons why human beings are so drawn to conspiracy theories.

To account for variations in observation. Anyone who studies history seriously knows that there is rarely a completely reliable, authoritative version of the facts surrounding any notable occurrence. The tidbits of inconsistency upon which most conspiracy theories rely occur constantly in connection with any activity we undertake. It's only when important activities are closely scrutinized that these details receive close attention. In other words, it's natural for people to believe that there should be no inconsistency in legitimate activities. So if we observe an inconsistency, we take that alone as evidence that the intuitive explanation must be flawed and we should search for a more complicated answer"

Moon Base Clavius (http://www.clavius.org)

[pwn3dy0]

Eh....I have no reason to think its fake after looking at all the evidence personally. That being said, it would not shock me if it was revealed to be fake.

[suhl]

what evidence. the only evidence it is real is the easily faked video footage and a picture of a reflector in some dirt. im not saying it was faked, i am not saying it wasnt, really there is no proof either way from what ive seen so far on here. and if the astronauts were tired of being harassed it wouldnt be all that time consuming to swear on a abible, although i have to admit them swearing on the bible wouldnt make me totally believe it, but i do think it looks pretty bad they wont do it.

[canucktoker]

what evidence. the only evidence it is real is the easily faked video footage and a picture of a reflector in some dirt. .

its not a picture of a relfector, its a reflector, that you, personally, can shine a laser from earth and see. I suggest creating another theory as to how those mirrors got on the moon, because they are up there now. Most nuts think "they" have been to the moon many times just that one landing was fake.

[AlwaysBlazed]

Eh....I have no reason to think its fake after looking at all the evidence personally. That being said, it would not shock me if it was revealed to be fake.

Same here, I wouldn't he surprised if it was fake, but it's not important anymore and there's really no way to prove it either way.

[suhl]

its not a picture of a relfector, its a reflector, that you, personally, can shine a laser from earth and see. I suggest creating another theory as to how those mirrors got on the moon, because they are up there now. Most nuts think "they" have been to the moon many times just that one landing was fake.

what can i say to that, i have never seen it happen and i dont just take peoples word for it

[rebgirl420]

I wouldnt be surprised if it was fake, stranger shit has happened

[CommanderChief]

It's not fake... that shit has been debunked hundreds of times. It's hard to prove either side either way, but when it comes down to it faking a moon landing isn't worth the time and money for the U.S. Gov't. Pride isn't the main concern of our gov't (and really never was). All I hear is this stupid shit like "Well why didn't the Astronauts signle from the moon and a photo be taken? They could have used flares."

There's no fucking oxygen on the moon. But yeah, do some research. There's a lot out there on the subject.

[BlackBerry]

why do u think the gov would lie to us they have no reasowhy do u think the gov would lie to us they have no reason to lie why do u think the gov would lie to us they have no reason to lie n to lie

[ballo resin]

area 51 crazy shit llook on google earth the place even looks like the moon with all the craters from nukes i heard they even got the aliens over there of course that landing was a fake look at the automobiles that were made in the sixties there electrical appliances shit they didnt even have color tv u really think they can build a freaking SPACECRAFT ? n=muther focker heck no they couldnt even stay sobers everone was high gettin baked even the president that guy was a base head tha president nexon that was his name they had some legal weed grown on big farms in north carolina like tobaco bastards had to criminalize it in the 70's basta5rds. the moon landing was fake

[suhl]

why do u think the gov would lie to us they have no reasowhy do u think the gov would lie to us they have no reason to lie why do u think the gov would lie to us they have no reason to lie n to lie

next time you feel like dropping some straight knowledge on us like that you should just rip your fingernails off instead

[suhl]

and yes, since these arguments arent exactly full of logic i am going to have to agree with the guy who says they didnt have color tv but they had aircraft capable of flying thousands upon thousands of miles in a short time fram then landing on the moon. to me that is about the same quality of argument as, the government wouldnt lie to us, which is what other people are saying.

[pabloescobar209]

It's not fake... that shit has been debunked hundreds of times. It's hard to prove either side either way, but when it comes down to it faking a moon landing isn't worth the time and money for the U.S. Gov't. Pride isn't the main concern of our gov't (and really never was). All I hear is this stupid shit like "Well why didn't the Astronauts signle from the moon and a photo be taken? They could have used flares."

There's no fucking oxygen on the moon. But yeah, do some research. There's a lot out there on the subject.

Are you joking? How much money would it take to fake a moon landing as opposed to actually going to the moon? It's not even close.

[Dro_Princess]

About a month ago the science channel or discovery one had a show about the conspiracy of the moon landing. I for one believe that they landed on the moon. I dont have any reason to doubt that they didnt, especially after watching the show and how everything the conspiracy theriost said was debunked.

[Psycho4Bud]

About a month ago the science channel or discovery one had a show about the conspiracy of the moon landing. I for one believe that they landed on the moon. I dont have any reason to doubt that they didnt, especially after watching the show and how everything the conspiracy theriost said was debunked.

If there was ANY doubt the Russians would have been all over that shit!

Have a good one!:s4:

[higher4hockey]

it amazes me the lengths people will go to discredit their own government...


maybe amazes is the wrong word...i think disgusts is more appropriate.

[Humboldt215]

Apparently their is nothing 'good' the Allied governments can do.

Everything is faked or greed.

Wasnt it Kennedy who wanted to go to the moon? Wasnt he a democrat. And I believe that their family made all their money bootlegging liquor during prohibition.

But thats ok, they got the (D)

[postmandave]

dont know if it was faked seems a bit bazzare they would go to they lenths but i remeber watching a thing on google video about a dude who went and mesured the lunar capsule and found that it was impossible for the astronauts to fit in the capsule with their back packs on .google it quite intresting.the postman.

[exhashsmoker]

Not gonna go into the details because it would take too long so to cut a long story short..Im almost certain it was a hoax to gain pole position in the space race with Russia.

[420ultimatesmokage]

every single point i've ever seen theorists make can be easily debunked. they're suggesting nasa came up with the most power and expensive rocket ever built just to fake it.
"The cost of the entire program is estimated at $135 billion (2006 dollars) ($25.4 billion in 1969 dollars). The Apollo spacecraft cost $28 billion (2006 dollars) to develop: $17 billion for the command and service modules, and $11 billion for the Lunar Module. The Saturn I, IB and V launch vehicle development cost about $46 billion."

These conspiracy theorist like to forget about the hundreds of pounds of moon rocks we brought back.

"There are currently three sources of Moon rocks on Earth: 1) those collected by US Apollo missions; 2) samples returned by the Soviet Union Luna missions; and 3) rocks that were ejected naturally from the lunar surface by cratering events and subsequently fell to Earth as lunar meteorites. During the six Apollo surface excursions, 2,415 samples weighing 382 kg (842 lb) were collected, the majority by Apollo 15, 16, and 17. The three Luna spacecraft returned with an additional 326 g (0.66 lb) of samples. Over 90 lunar meteorites have been found on Earth as of late 2006, comprising over 30 kg of material.

The Apollo moon rocks were collected using a variety of tools, including hammers, rakes, scoops, tongs, and core tubes. Most were photographed prior to collection to record the condition in which they were found. They were placed inside sample bags and then a Special Environmental Sample Container for return to the Earth to protect them from contamination.

In general, the rocks collected from the Moon are extremely old compared to rocks found on Earth, as measured by radiometric dating techniques. They range in age from about 3.16 billion years old for the basaltic samples drived from the lunar maria, up to about 4.5 billion years old for rocks derived from the highlands[1]. Based on the age dating technique of "crater counting," the youngest basaltic eruptions are believed to have occurred about 1.2 billion years ago[2], but we do not possess samples of these lavas. In contrast, the oldest ages of rocks from the Earth are about 3.8 billion years old."

As some else pointed out, do you really think the soviets would stay silent if they thought it was possibly faked? Use your brains people, scientist aren't political puppets, landing on the moon/space race were these peoples lives. You're telling me thousands of people with phd's and college education couldn't tell anything fishy was going on, give me a break.

[ConfusedCannabisGuy]

give me some REALLY good bud, ill get as high as the moon, and ill tell you...deal??

[hipN0]

just a fragment of a figment of fracti0n 0f imaginati0n inc0mparis0n of what in the HELL u think u kn0w!

[Divest]

I wouldnt be surprised if it was fake, stranger shit has happened

Does this person get away with retarded posts like this because they pretend to be a girl? Weak.

And no, I don't think the moon landing was fake. I happen to believe that if something of this magnitude was faked, we'd never hear about it. Afterall, they did spend all sorts of money faking it, so why would they let it slip?

[Not An Addict]

Does this person get away with retarded posts like this because they pretend to be a girl? Weak.

And no, I don't think the moon landing was fake. I happen to believe that if something of this magnitude was faked, we'd never hear about it. Afterall, they did spend all sorts of money faking it, so why would they let it slip?

As if your post isn't retarded..Lets go by your theory of if they did fake it, why would they let it slip? Do you really think its up to them as a whole? Theres always gonna be that one person that leaks info. Didn't that guy that wrote the book about area51, and explaining how the government has a working alien spacecraft along with an alive alien, get assassinated shortly after publishing it? He left the CIA or whatever he was in, wrote a book, then got killed.

[suhl]

well i saw a show on it a few days ago. pretty much every single conspiracy theory on it was debunked step by step, and now im convinced we landed on the moon. the only thing i still find fishy is that the astronauts refused to swear on a bible to it

[PharmaCan]

Does this person get away with retarded posts like this because they pretend to be a girl? Weak.


ROFLMAO - If RebGirl is really a boy, that's the best damn make-up job I've ever seen.:D

PC :pimp:

[BoilerUp]

Lol guys.. whats the point.

The US should be praised either way. If it was faked, then that was the one of the best moves ever to attempt to end the cold war. If it wasn't then it was one of the greatest milestones in history.

Either way it is a win/win situation, and I'm sure we can all agree that travel to the moon, and even mars now, is quite possible, so why spend countless hours thinking about it?

[Jizzle Blizzle420]

I think they the did land on the moon but i still have some doubts. Like if we did it once, Why hasnt anybody else gone back?

[Divestoned]

If we went to the moon in the 60's ......why is it that we cant get there now????? we can barely get a ship to atmosphere and back alive....

Dive:stoned:

[blunt roller]

they didnt just go once they went like 6 times and they dont go now because
they already went there like 6 times and have done everything they wanted to do

[Divestoned]

they didnt just go once they went like 6 times and they dont go now because
they already went there like 6 times and have done everything they wanted to do

your telling me NASA has no further use or interest in the moon??not for military,scientific,or any other reason whatsoever????? :wtf:

Dive:stoned:

[Breukelen advocaat]

There was no scientific purpose to send men to the moon other than PR for NASA. Robotic machines could have gathered the moon rocks and other stuff just as well for a lot less than it cost to send humans, not to mention that it's safer to use machines. They assumed that unless people went, it wouldn't be interesting enough to gain sufficient support from the taxpayers.

[pisshead]

your telling me NASA has no further use or interest in the moon??not for military,scientific,or any other reason whatsoever????? :wtf:

Dive:stoned:

yeah, i don't get it...in some old outdated shuttle...i don't believe it...i think we've been to the moon many many many many times...more than we're led to believe...

i think they're holding back knowledge and technology from us on this one...

[YouAintKnow]

scientist aren't political puppets, .

Um....of course they are, why do you think marijuana is illegal in the US?

[YouAintKnow]

And I for one don't doubt that the moon landing could have been faked. Obviously, at the time, the United States and Soviet Union were locked in the arms race. Both constantly vying for power and trying to one-up their opponent. The soviets beat us into space by a few weeks, so naturally we wanted to show them that we could land a shuttle on the moon. However, this is around the time star wars was made and Hollywood was increasing their technological innovation, its possible that it could have been filmed on a faked set in a Hollywood studio. The most crucial piece of evidence to support those who think it was faked is the flag that was placed on the moon. It was blowing as if their was wind, however that wouldn't happen.

[Oh My High]

your telling me NASA has no further use or interest in the moon??not for military,scientific,or any other reason whatsoever?????
That's correct. We've collected 841 pounds of moon rock, mapped its entire surface, and to top things off we had some guys bounce around on it. What's more to discover?

[Oh My High]

The most crucial piece of evidence to support those who think it was faked is the flag that was placed on the moon. It was blowing as if their was wind, however that wouldn't happen.
Your argument is bullshit. Look more closely, whenever the flag was waving the astronauts were touching it. It's called inertia. And when the astronauts weren't touching it, the flag didn't move. If that is your most crucial evidence then your whole case has been destroyed.

[YouAintKnow]

Your argument is bullshit. Look more closely, whenever the flag was waving the astronauts were touching it. It's called inertia. And when the astronauts weren't touching it, the flag didn't move. If that is your most crucial evidence then your whole case has been destroyed.

Its not my evidence, because honestly I don't really care...cold wars over.


he most crucial piece of evidence to support those who think it was faked

I'm simply stating that those people use it as evidence, not myself.

[Oh My High]

You had said you have no doubt it could have been faked, so that's what created the misunderstanding if there was any. Of course, though, there's no possibility of it being faked because it happened.

[YouAintKnow]

You had said you have no doubt it could have been faked, so that's what created the misunderstanding if there was any. Of course, though, there's no possibility of it being faked because it happened.

I said I don't doubt it.
But I guess if you know it happened then it must have happened.

[420ultimatesmokage]

Um....of course they are, why do you think marijuana is illegal in the US?

first of all this is comparing apples to oranges. we are talking about thousands of physicist, cosmologists and engineers not government sponsored drug studies. second marijuana being illegal had little to do with scientists and everything to do with racist politicians (marijuana being strongly associated with Mexican immigrants at the time). there has been numerous studies from the scientific community showing marijuana isn't as bad as it's been perceived, it's the politicians who ignore the evidence. please take your ignorance on both subjects elsewhere.

[PharmaCan]

And I for one don't doubt that the moon landing could have been faked. Obviously, at the time, the United States and Soviet Union were locked in the arms race. Both constantly vying for power and trying to one-up their opponent. The soviets beat us into space by a few weeks, so naturally we wanted to show them that we could land a shuttle on the moon. However, this is around the time star wars was made and Hollywood was increasing their technological innovation, its possible that it could have been filmed on a faked set in a Hollywood studio. The most crucial piece of evidence to support those who think it was faked is the flag that was placed on the moon. It was blowing as if their was wind, however that wouldn't happen.

This has got to be one of the most screwed up historical accounts I have ever seen. The chronology is downright moronic - as is the reasoning. :wtf:

PC :pimp:

[PharmaCan]

. second marijuana being illegal had little to do with scientists and everything to do with racist politicians (marijuana being strongly associated with Mexican immigrants at the time). please take your ignorance on both subjects elsewhere.

:S2:

Hemp was outlawed primarilly to increase the market for synthetic rope. It had nothing to do with racism or Mexicans.

One might say that yours is an ignorant statement. But that wouldn't be very nice, now would it. :D

PC :pimp:

[420ultimatesmokage]

:S2:

Hemp was outlawed primarilly to increase the market for synthetic rope. It had nothing to do with racism or Mexicans.

One might say that yours is an ignorant statement. But that wouldn't be very nice, now would it. :D

PC :pimp:

thats funny because everywhere i look there seems to be a connection with the Mexican influx during 1910. you claim it had nothing to do with it but looky here

Why is Marijuana Illegal? (http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html)
Marijuana - The First Twelve Thousand Years - Reefer Racism (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/history/first12000/11.htm)
Legal history of marijuana in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history_of_marijuana_in_the_United_States)<<< my favorite

oh and watch the show Hooked: illegal drugs and how they got that way. you may want to put a little less smileys and a little more info backing your claims up:thumbsup:

[psteve]

Ever notice how the people who suspect the moon landing was fake, are usually the same people who think pro wrestling is real?

[rebgirl420]

Does this person get away with retarded posts like this because they pretend to be a girl? Weak.

And no, I don't think the moon landing was fake. I happen to believe that if something of this magnitude was faked, we'd never hear about it. Afterall, they did spend all sorts of money faking it, so why would they let it slip?

Please, I hope you enjoy your new red box.

[Divestoned]

Please, I hope you enjoy your new red box.

WTH? Divest???looks like a Divestoned wanna be...:wtf:

Dive:stoned:

[420ultimatesmokage]

oh btw pharmacan i didn't rep you for disagreeing with me. i neg repped you for spreading bullshit. nothing pisses me off more than assholes like you spreading lies like its truth. call me stupid because you can't back your claims up then so be it. i'm officially done with this thread, if your stupid enough to believe in the moon conspiracy then god i hope you didn't procreate.:thumbsup:

[PharmaCan]

oh btw pharmacan i didn't rep you for disagreeing with me. i neg repped you for spreading bullshit. nothing pisses me off more than assholes like you spreading lies like its truth. call me stupid because you can't back your claims up then so be it. i'm officially done with this thread, if your stupid enough to believe in the moon conspiracy then god i hope you didn't procreate.:thumbsup:

I have a rule I like to follow: "Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.' :jointsmile:

PC :pimp:

[420ultimatesmokage]

very funny but yet again you've proved nothing and show that all you can do is respond with stupid little quotes that have no bearing on what were talking about

420:clap:

[420ultimatesmokage]

Everything I say is fictional

hey look something we can both agree on.:stoned:

[420ultimatesmokage]

one last thing, hey youaintknow im sorry i came off as such a dick. i could have gone about saying what i said in a nicer way but i was being an ass.

[YouAintKnow]

one last thing, hey youaintknow im sorry i came off as such a dick. i could have gone about saying what i said in a nicer way but i was being an ass.

No worries. Next time just don't go neg. repping people bc you a) disagree with them or b) don't know what they are talking about. I happen to have heard things via a friend and had no other interest in this subject then to say what I thought may be possible. (Though it was wrong and as you said ignorant :smokin:) I did happen to spend 2hrs reading up on it after the fact, but I don't really care anymore.

[420ultimatesmokage]

well i'm glad you've done your own research so i guess i've accomplished something. i don't rep people i disagree with, i've had plenty of debates here where i've respectfully disagreed. i neg rep people who show that they have just spouted a lie off with absolutely no proof backing them up. everything i say here i've looked up and found evidence backing my claims up. if i think something is true but i find no evidence backing it up, then i don't post it.

[YouAintKnow]

well i'm glad you've done your own research so i guess i've accomplished something. i don't rep people i disagree with, i've had plenty of debates here where i've respectfully disagreed. i neg rep people who show that they have just spouted a lie off with absolutely no proof backing them up. everything i say here i've looked up and found evidence backing my claims up. if i think something is true but i find no evidence backing it up, then i don't post it.

For future reference when posting here I will then.
Not the first thing on my mind when I'm high though. haha :rastasmoke:

[Psycho4Bud]

Where the hell do I start on this.........with this many piss fests this thread is CLOSED!

Have a good one!:jointsmile: