humankind's search for origin

[hazetwostep]

i am curious as to some people's opinions on this question.

why are humanbeings so curious to find their origins?

[RyanTheCaveman]

A place of belonging.

[hazetwostep]

do you mean belonging in relation to the universe or among each other? what creates that void of needing to belong as we are the only species (that we know of) searching?

[RyanTheCaveman]

Well...it depends. a place of belonging. I guess i just want to know exactly where i came from...to know why we are here. I mean...if we die and die alone...and nothing happens after death...then what was the point of our life?...its...absurd.

[40oz]

Its probably just a side effect of our brains being able to think retrospectivly, introspectivly and critically. People are bound to start questioning were everything came from.

[notransfer]

haha

[hazetwostep]

i hear ya Ryan... i think a lot of people feel that way...

[Zspecdrifter]

I feel very similar to you in that respect ryan. Quite frankly the fact that nothing might happen after death scares the shit outta me. Infact the word forever does as well.

[Mark Bryan]

I believe the keys to our future are buried in the past. www.originofnations.org

[Mark Bryan]

Genealogy -- Adam, King David, the Queen (http://royal.kingdavid.org/geneaology.html) Here's one that might interest you!

[hazetwostep]

thanks for the info mark bryan. i looked some of it over and it is interesting stuff. the only thing for me is that i believe the bible is correct in spiritual principle but not facts.. too many contradictions in facts to believe "IT IS GOD'S WORD"... i do believe that "IT CONTAINS GOD'S WORD"... do you follow the difference?

what about you? do you believe it IS God's word or does it CONTAIN God's word?

[Mark Bryan]

thanks for the info mark bryan. i looked some of it over and it is interesting stuff. the only thing for me is that i believe the bible is correct in spiritual principle but not facts.. too many contradictions in facts to believe "IT IS GOD'S WORD"... i do believe that "IT CONTAINS GOD'S WORD"... do you follow the difference?

what about you? do you believe it IS God's word or does it CONTAIN God's word?
I'll only say this. When you see where it says submit to the powers that be,then read where Jesus broke the Jewish laws,or Daniel disobeyed the laws not to pray,then contradictions SEEM to appear. If it's like a traffic law or stealin'or drunk drivin',then these laws are beneficial,but if it's laws bannin' religious freedom or hemp prohibition,then the laws are tyrannical! I like to interpret the prophecies in the Bible,which strengthens MY belief,for example if you read Isaiah;31:5,Matthew;34:32-36 and Luke;21:24 you read about the 6-Day War,June5-10,1967! Or Isaiah;49:20 and Genesis;48:16-19 the American Revolution,or the rise of America(Manasseh)and the British Commonwealth of Nations(Ephraim)in Genesis;49:22-26 and Deuteronomy;33:13-17! Good stuff if you understand and can interpret prophecy correctly!

[hazetwostep]

Good stuff if you understand and can interpret prophecy correctly!

i hear ya.. the tough thing is that one cannot be sure that he/she is interpretting correctly, hence hundreds of denominations from disagreement on interpretation. ya know?

i do commend you for looking and trying to figure things out for yourself though considering most people just blindly follow their agents of religious socialization (priest, pastor guru, etc.).

[smoke it]

if people think that theyre working for a higher purpose, then theyre happy.

[iclotsofpills]

Well...it depends. a place of belonging. I guess i just want to know exactly where i came from...to know why we are here. I mean...if we die and die alone...and nothing happens after death...then what was the point of our life?...its...absurd.



Maybe nothing does happen after we die, but that should make us each try to do the best we can with our lives in the knoledge that the things we do will have created a positive impact in the world after were gone and as a result the world will be a better place..................ahh.


pills.

[MelT]

To some extent we're only discussing one section of the question here, that of why people should be interested in whether they're a part of a divine plan or not. But we explore for other reasons too. Of more interest to many than 'why am I here' is 'what is here?' and 'what is over there? The human drive to search for our origins doesn't necessarily involve metaphysical concepts, we can simply want to know.

To me, reality doesn't need a divine plan for it to have meaning, I make my own meaning; and if I were God, the purpose of life would certainly be for every creature to experience the wonder of reality, exploring it and drinking it in at every possible moment. Could there be anything more important than that? Does there really need to be a 'plan'?

Enjoy reality, be here. Nobody says on their death beds says, "I wish I'd had more blunts", or "slept with more women". Everybody says the same thing. "I wish I'd had more time to just enjoy it. But I chose not to because..."

Hoping that there's a point to existence is good, it supports us and gives us comfort. But we can't rely on it as a truth, without ever considering that there's an equal chance that life is just a random flow of events wth no purpose at all. It makes us live more voraciously, and we appreciate our brief lives more to know that they're transient, and very possibly all any of us will get.

We explore to know, not to give our existence worth.

MelT

[Mark Bryan]

i hear ya.. the tough thing is that one cannot be sure that he/she is interpretting correctly, hence hundreds of denominations from disagreement on interpretation. ya know?

i do commend you for looking and trying to figure things out for yourself though considering most people just blindly follow their agents of religious socialization (priest, pastor guru, etc.).
I've basically RETURNED to the Bible,since readin' Jack Herer's The Emperor Wears No Clothes. I had NO IDEA cannabis was written in the scriptures,'til I read that book! I have NO REGRETS! I've also found in my studies that the manna in the book of Exodus and Numbers happens to be MAGIC MUSHROOMS! Therefore the ORIGINAL hebrew culture and society was a PSYCHEDELIC ONE! Todays MODERN church originates from PAGAN ROME! That's why so many people HATE the church! Start with the Council of Nicea,then on to emperor Constantine,and you'll see how this church got started! It is referred to in Revelation as the GREAT WHORE!

[Mark Bryan]

Maybe nothing does happen after we die, but that should make us each try to do the best we can with our lives in the knoledge that the things we do will have created a positive impact in the world after were gone and as a result the world will be a better place..................ahh.


I'd say you're PARTLY correct. Right now NOTHING has happened! Jesus said: NO man has entered into Heaven,only he who descended FROM heaven. John;13:13 also read 2 Chronicles;21:12-15. Enoch was taken to a safe place (however unsaid) to wait out the flood. I Thessalonians ;4:14-16 tells us what WILL happen.

[higher4hockey]

because we can.

[stinkyattic]

Meh, we're curious and self-aware; it's one of the things that sets us apart from the animals.

That, and our use of eating utensils. :D

(first person to get that reference gets rep hahahaha)

[hazetwostep]

I've also found in my studies that the manna in the book of Exodus and Numbers happens to be MAGIC MUSHROOMS! Therefore the ORIGINAL hebrew culture and society was a PSYCHEDELIC ONE!

sorry to disagree but think about how logical that statement. you are saying that for 40 years in the desert, the people of Israel received all of their nutrition from magic mushrooms??? come on now...

[hazetwostep]

Meh, we're curious and self-aware; it's one of the things that sets us apart from the animals.

That, and our use of eating utensils. :D

(first person to get that reference gets rep hahahaha)

i just watched a video on primates that use utensils (tools) to eat certain foods!

[stinkyattic]

i just watched a video on primates that use utensils (tools) to eat certain foods!termites... stick in mound... lick off termites. mm mm good.

[Mark Bryan]

sorry to disagree but think about how logical that statement. you are saying that for 40 years in the desert, the people of Israel received all of their nutrition from magic mushrooms??? come on now...
Let's see, Manna From Heaven (http://deoxy.org/manna.htm) They did bake it with bread and cakes,so they didn't just use shrooms alone.

[Staurm]

It seems like the most obvious things to ask really. So what's this all about then? Where in the hell did I just come from? I suppose if we had all been born at the exactly same time no-ne might have actually noticed that time and the rest of the universe also used to exist before we did, and it might not have occurred to anyone to ask.

[PureEvil760]

i am curious as to some people's opinions on this question.

why are humanbeings so curious to find their origins?

Because people know deep within that there is somthing wrong with thier waking consiousness..they know intuitively that somthing is not right.

[darth stoner]

Meh, we're curious and self-aware; it's one of the things that sets us apart from the animals.

That, and our use of eating utensils. :D

(first person to get that reference gets rep hahahaha)

We're also animals, and a few other species have passed the self awareness test too.

"Animals which have passed the mirror test are common chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, dolphins, elephants, humans and possibly pigeons. Surprisingly, gorillas have not passed the test, although at least one specific gorilla, Koko, has passed the test; this is probably because gorillas consider eye contact an aggressive gesture and normally try to avoid looking each other in the face. Human children tend to fail this test until they are at least 1.5 to 2 years old [1]. Dogs, cats and 1 year old children, for example, usually react to a mirror in fear or curiosity, or simply ignore it, while birds often attack their own reflections."


Other apes have been seen using tools too. And tools are not specific to Homo Sapiens Sapiens, our ancient ancestors also used them.

Spoken language is what currently separates "them" from us, and the "consequences" of being able to manipulate language the way we do is what really makes the difference.

[Staurm]

We're also animals, and a few other species have passed the self awareness test too.

"Animals which have passed the mirror test are common chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, dolphins, elephants, humans and possibly pigeons. Surprisingly, gorillas have not passed the test, although at least one specific gorilla, Koko, has passed the test; this is probably because gorillas consider eye contact an aggressive gesture and normally try to avoid looking each other in the face. Human children tend to fail this test until they are at least 1.5 to 2 years old [1]. Dogs, cats and 1 year old children, for example, usually react to a mirror in fear or curiosity, or simply ignore it, while birds often attack their own reflections."


Other apes have been seen using tools too. And tools are not specific to Homo Sapiens Sapiens, our ancient ancestors also used them.

Spoken language is what currently separates "them" from us, and the "consequences" of being able to manipulate language the way we do is what really makes the difference.

Interesting, never heard of this mirror test before.

I am not sure its entirely valid to assume all other species donot have highly delevoped communication rituals though. Recorded patterns of bird song has been directly compared to patterns generated by simple algorithms on a computer. This suggest deterministic (and repeatable in form) patterns that may have a complex meaning to birds, yet are completely indiscernable to any ther species. In the same way they probably have no idea what we are babbling on about either.

[darth stoner]

I have thought about that too Staurm, but the use of complex language (such as ours) requires intelligence. Intelligence is possible without language, but language (again, complex like ours, not simple sounds or body language) isn't possible without intelligence. If any other animal had developed the kind of language we possess, I'm sure we'd know about it already.

Note that I'm not saying complex language isn't possible in "lower" animals in the future, because I very much think it is (not in all of them of course, as many even lack the means to produce language as we know it).

It's just that the simple fact that we're humans forces us to look at other animals from an human point of view (we're inherently biased). As a reverse example, we'd look pretty dumb to a cat, because we're not able to see him in poor light conditions, as they take that ability for granted. Point being, if they judged our intelligence based on the way they see the world, we'd look very dumb to them too.

[Staurm]

Hey I know plenty of folk with the ability to talk, but I wouldn't class them as intelligent! :-)

Joking aside, I think you are basing that logical reasoning on an invalid assumption of what intelligence is strictly defined as. It is also misleading to suggest that the only possible intelligent lingual construct is the one we humans use based collectively on our fragmented and objective perception of reality.

In spite of that, I think the odds are birds aren't having conversations on some dimension outwith our own comprehension. I'm more with your theory that many species have the potential to develop communicative skills in the form of an exhange of objective information, and that in the early days when humans started to talk they were probably high on mushrooms and rolling around on the grass making strange noises and laughing at themselves, but not quite realising why yet.

[peacetrain]

We are the first species here with consciousness to the fact that we even had a beginning. Therefore, it is our responsibility to seek out the answers. The crocodiles sure as hell won't be doing it!