Get out

[medicinal]

comment | posted March 8, 2007 (March 26, 2007 issue)
Conscience and the War


Unless the United States withdraws its military forces from Iraq in the near future, a war that began as an unnecessary invasion based on deception and predictably grew into a disastrous occupation will go down in history as a terrible crime, if it hasn't already. For Americans of conscience, Iraq has therefore become the paramount moral issue of our time.

Those of us who were against the war even before it began were often disdained, but now, after four years, only the most myopic or callous among its many well-placed supporters can deny the catastrophic consequences. By inspiring legions of anti-American terrorists where there were few, by straining the US military to its breaking point, by alienating traditional and potential allies abroad, by frightening other states into acquiring new weapons and by provoking popular revulsion around the world, the war has undermined our real national security, from Russia, Afghanistan and the Middle East to the "Homeland." And by already spending more than $400 billion, suffocating other policy initiatives and polarizing the nation, it has prevented the domestic reforms this country urgently needs.

But it is the war's human costs that must be emphasized above all else. The Bush Administration and its bipartisan enablers have already squandered more than 3,100 American lives and maimed tens of thousands more for an unworthy and unwinnable military adventure whose declared purpose has changed repeatedly--from capturing Iraq's (nonexistent) weapons of mass destruction, to fighting Al Qaeda, to deposing a tyrant, to spreading democracy and now to countering Iran. As a result, the families of those American victims have been left without even the solace of knowing their sacrifices were not in vain.

[andruejaysin]

Those sacrifices were not completely in vain, they will result in a more cautious US foreign policy for many years to come.

[cannabis=freedom]

They should definitly leave. And Bush should be tried internationally for war crimes.

[Dutch Pimp]

Those sacrifices were not completely in vain, they will result in a more cautious US foreign policy for many years to come.

...a man flying combat missions between Dallas and Houston..in the early 70's should have remembered this better than anybody...instead...he forgot it first..:(

[Psycho4Bud]

Those sacrifices were not completely in vain, they will result in a more cautious US foreign policy for many years to come.

Sorry.......we'll still be dealing with Iran unless something drastic happens internally in that country.

:Tomcat: :apachecopter: :s4: :apachecopter: :Tomcat:

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

Sorry.......we'll still be dealing with Iran unless something drastic happens internally in that country.

:Tomcat: :apachecopter: :s4: :apachecopter: :Tomcat:

Have a good one!:s4:

"Dealing", in your estimation, must entail some kind of pre-eptive military action I presume. Military action is not always the best action, but usually is the action taken by cowards that do not see front line duty. If you made the idiots that advocate wars fight them, you'd see a huge reduction in wars. My opinion only. BTW this is not a personal attack on you as you have no authority to start Military action. If you want to see the end of an empire (The USA) start a war with Persia (Iran) and then start digging in your backyard for that bomb shelter you've been putting off for all these years.

[Psycho4Bud]

If you want to see the end of an empire (The USA) start a war with Persia (Iran) and then start digging in your backyard for that bomb shelter you've been putting off for all these years.

We'll be digging those shelters if the bleeding hearts get their way and allow Iran to develope nuclear weapons. Then it'll be, "Why didn't our government see this coming and do something about it!".

Have a good one!:s4:

[Abattoir Dream]

If you want to see the end of an empire (The USA) start a war with Persia (Iran) and then start digging in your backyard for that bomb shelter you've been putting off for all these years.


lol and China, Japan, Russia, Germany and England are all just gonna sit back and watch... i think not.

if iran were to actually USE nukes, im sure they wouldnt last long...

dont forget, its not JUST america fighting the war...

[Psycho4Bud]

I omitted to mention at "Deadly Denial [of Muslim Anti-Semitism]" that the psychological preparation for using nuclear weapons against Israel has already begun. In December 2001, as reported in Iran's English, Farsi and Arabic newspapers (and paraphrased by MEMRI), former Iranian president and "Expediency Council" Chairman Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani said that

If one day, he said, the world of Islam comes to possess the weapons currently in Israel's possession [meaning nuclear weapons] â?? on that day this method of global arrogance would come to a dead end. This, he said, is because the use of a nuclear bomb in Israel will leave nothing on the ground, whereas it will only damage the world of Islam.
Iranian Nuclear Attack against Israel? [Weblog] - Daniel Pipes (http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/468)

They preach it, print it, but yet there are those who choose to wear rose color glasses.

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

I omitted to mention at "Deadly Denial [of Muslim Anti-Semitism]" that the psychological preparation for using nuclear weapons against Israel has already begun. In December 2001, as reported in Iran's English, Farsi and Arabic newspapers (and paraphrased by MEMRI), former Iranian president and "Expediency Council" Chairman Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani said that

If one day, he said, the world of Islam comes to possess the weapons currently in Israel's possession [meaning nuclear weapons] â?? on that day this method of global arrogance would come to a dead end. This, he said, is because the use of a nuclear bomb in Israel will leave nothing on the ground, whereas it will only damage the world of Islam.
Iranian Nuclear Attack against Israel? [Weblog] - Daniel Pipes (http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/468)

They preach it, print it, but yet there are those who choose to wear rose color glasses.

Have a good one!:s4:

So, don't you think Israel can hold it's own. Israel has it's form of the CIA and be assured, before they could put together a bomb or means of delivery, Israel would take care of Business. Why is it our mission to protect Israel? Israel has proven to be a formidable enemy and if you believe in the Bible, Israel is Gods chosen people, so they have God on their side, they don't need us. The best thing we could do is to GTF out of the middle East and let that boil all on it's own. When there is a real threat to the continental US, then we can respond with dire consequences.

[Psycho4Bud]

Isolationism is a foreign policy which combines a non-interventionist military and a political policy of economic nationalism (protectionism). In other words, it asserts both of the following:

Non-interventionism - Political rulers should avoid entangling alliances with other nations and avoid all wars not related to direct territorial self-defense.

Protectionism - There should be legal barriers to prevent trade and cultural exchange with people in other states.


Since the creation of ICBMs this type of philosophy has become obsolete.

So you'd wait for all hell to break loose in the middle east before lifting a finger for is it just a matter of fuck them completely? When Israel launched it's nuclear arsenal onto the Arab nation in self defense don't ya think that the effects would be felt here?

I'd rather nip it in the bud early than to suffer the effects of the latter.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Krogith]

We'll be digging those shelters if the bleeding hearts get their way and allow Iran to develope nuclear weapons. Then it'll be, "Why didn't our government see this coming and do something about it!".

Have a good one!:s4:

Like N. Korea? Like Pakistan? Like India? Like Israel?

You think that you are going to stop the Whole World from have Nukes?

Everyone is going to have them or access eventually right?

So why not focus on makeing Friends? Instead of Bombing everyone? USA is Giveing people Good reason to not like Them.

You know when you see people makeing Big $$ (off of weapon sales to Both sides, Securing oil (during Peak Oil) and To top it all off more $$ being spent makes more Debt more Debt makes Banks shareholders $$. (Kinda funny when you look at WHO thoses Shareholders of all these companies ARE.)) your not going to see an end to these Wars.

When War makes this much Money your going to see alot more of it.

[Psycho4Bud]

Like N. Korea? Like Pakistan? Like India? Like Israel?

You think that you are going to stop the Whole World from have Nukes?

No, but I think that allowing a nation like Iran to have nukes is completely idiotic. They called for the DESTRUCTION of a country and it's people....isn't that enough?

So why not focus on makeing Friends? Instead of Bombing everyone? USA is Giveing people Good reason to not like Them.

Yipper.........

-9-11 made people in Afghanistan LOVE the U.S.
-Sadam and sons raping of women, paying martyrs families, ignoring U.N. resolutions....made people LOVE the U.S.
-Our economic aid to countries.....who gives a crap right?
-Disaster aid to countries.....see above, why shouldn't they hate us?

DAMN........and you defend Iran? Your hate for this country equals that of the Mullahs.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Krogith]

Yipper.........

-9-11 made people in Afghanistan LOVE the U.S.
-Sadam and sons raping of women, paying martyrs families, ignoring U.N. resolutions....made people LOVE the U.S.
-Our economic aid to countries.....who gives a crap right?
-Disaster aid to countries.....see above, why shouldn't they hate us?

DAMN........and you defend Iran? Your hate for this country equals that of the Mullahs.

Have a good one!:s4:

Are all the USSR Nukes Accounted For? And does N. Korea, Pakistan and India have some?

[Psycho4Bud]

Are all the USSR Nukes Accounted For? And does N. Korea, Pakistan and India have some?

USSR.....obsolete country.....who knows? I think that their nuclear waste is more of a threat in the terms of a dirty bomb.
N.Korea.....LMAO! Talk to Mr. Peanut and his friend Billy Bobbin' Clinton. We should actually learn from the Dems failures....don't ya think?
Pakistan and India.....another example of mutual destruction.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Krogith]

USSR.....obsolete country.....who knows? I think that their nuclear waste is more of a threat in the terms of a dirty bomb.
N.Korea.....LMAO! Talk to Mr. Peanut and his friend Billy Bobbin' Clinton. We should actually learn from the Dems failures....don't ya think?
Pakistan and India.....another example of mutual destruction.

Have a good one!:s4:

So NO there are nukes and/or Dirty bombs All around.

Does Iran Have $$?

[Psycho4Bud]

Does Iran Have $$?

Considering the fact that they've completely ignored thier infrastucture since the late 70's, funding terrorist organizations, their currency is pretty much worthless, the Russians have recently STOPPED nuclear constuction due to lack of payment........I'd say that they are kind of strapped for cash right now.

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
We'll be digging those shelters if the bleeding hearts get their way and allow Iran to develope nuclear weapons. Then it'll be, "Why didn't our government see this coming and do something about it!".


Do you actually think Our government doesn't know exactly the status of Irans Nuclear progress? Here's the thing. If we strategically bomb these sites now, Iran will declare war and launch their million man army into Iraq, hell bent on killing Americans and helping the Iraqis rid themselves of the US. So basically you are condemning 150,000 Americans to death. Don't be disallusioned into thinking the Iraqi shiites wouldn't welcome them with open arms, and the insurgency, they would be overjoyed to have tanks and heavy armor on their side. The US warplanes would be hounded by SAMs and helicopters would be brought down with sophisticated shoulder fired weapons. This would probably escalate into tactical Nukes and then on to, who knows what. I still say, If you believe so strongly in war, Go get some, buy a one way ticket to Iraq and join the Blackwater group and kill Iraqis, have some fun, blow some shit up. Cut off ears of dead enemys and wear them on your belt, Hoorah! Peace is for pussies, right?

[Psycho4Bud]

Do you actually think Our government doesn't know exactly the status of Irans Nuclear progress?

[color=DarkRed]I'm sure that they do and they are waiting until the last minute before taking action....lets see if the bleeding hearts have luck first.

Here's the thing. If we strategically bomb these sites now, Iran will declare war and launch their million man army into Iraq, hell bent on killing Americans and helping the Iraqis rid themselves of the US. So basically you are condemning 150,000 Americans to death. Don't be disallusioned into thinking the Iraqi shiites wouldn't welcome them with open arms, and the insurgency, they would be overjoyed to have tanks and heavy armor on their side. The US warplanes would be hounded by SAMs and helicopters would be brought down with sophisticated shoulder fired weapons. This would probably escalate into tactical Nukes and then on to, who knows what.

You think so highly of their capabilities as compared to ours. Likewise, you think so poorly of the judgement of the Iraqi people.

I still say, If you believe so strongly in war, Go get some, buy a one way ticket to Iraq and join the Blackwater group and kill Iraqis, have some fun, blow some shit up. Cut off ears of dead enemys and wear them on your belt, Hoorah! Peace is for pussies, right?[/QUOTE]

LMAO! So is that what you think that our soldiers do? UNREAL! It always amazes me the disgust that comes out of the mouths of "peaceful people". Kind of like the peace demonstrations in D.C. where they spit on soldiers, deface our institutions, and spit on FOX reporters.......but thats the peaceful way right?:cool:

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

LMAO! So is that what you think that our soldiers do? UNREAL! It always amazes me the disgust that comes out of the mouths of "peaceful people". Kind of like the peace demonstrations in D.C. where they spit on soldiers, deface our institutions, and spit on FOX reporters.......but thats the peaceful way right?
Well, please don't link me with any group that would spit on our soldiers, I am a Viet Nam era Vet, I also would never deface our institutions, Spitting on Fox reporters, well that is a whole other ballgame, I doubt if I could get close enough to spit on them and if I did, I'd rather give them a piece of my mind and invite them to the ditch. They are a bunch of cowards spouting the drivel of Neocon handlers from the White House. Fox news is like the Hitler channel for America, God help us.

[Psycho4Bud]

Well, please don't link me with any group that would spit on our soldiers, I am a Viet Nam era Vet, I also would never deface our institutions,

VERY glad to hear that and much respect for it!!! We are entitled to our own beliefs but SOME people give nobel movements a bad name.

Spitting on Fox reporters, well that is a whole other ballgame, I doubt if I could get close enough to spit on them and if I did, I'd rather give them a piece of my mind and invite them to the ditch. They are a bunch of cowards spouting the drivel of Neocon handlers from the White House. Fox news is like the Hitler channel for America, God help us.[/QUOTE]

LMAO!! Your FOX is my MSNBC.......

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

LMAO!! Your FOX is my MSNBC.......

As hard as I try to see your point of view, I can't understand the waring nature of man. I realize it's been going on since the beginning, but at what point do you stop communicating and start throwing blows. Atilla the Hun mentality should have been old hat by now. I never started a fight in my life, although I've been in a few, when the talking ends and the blows start what is it in man that says, strike out, my first reaction was duck and cover and then do what you gotta do to survive, but I never really wanted to fight, I just had to to survive. Where does all the agressive nature come from. I'd say sports. Football is nothing but Gladiator school. They train young men to be agressive so they will have agressive cannon fodder for their wars. IMO. I never participated in sports as a whole, a little baseball, a little basketball, but football was way too idiotic for me! Run around the field trying to maim each other over a piece of pigskin. Football is minature war. Fighting over 100 yards of real estate, totally idiotic. The toughest and dumbest kids were always the football players in the schools I attended. From the way you post, I must assume you are a huge football fan!

[Psycho4Bud]

LMAO!! Your FOX is my MSNBC.......

As hard as I try to see your point of view, I can't understand the waring nature of man. I realize it's been going on since the beginning, but at what point do you stop communicating and start throwing blows.

When you see that there is NO other alternative.......

Football is nothing but Gladiator school. They train young men to be agressive so they will have agressive cannon fodder for their wars. IMO. I never participated in sports as a whole, a little baseball, a little basketball,

Steroids and others fortunate enough to be born 7'6"........REAL SKILL.

but football was way too idiotic for me! Run around the field trying to maim each other over a piece of pigskin. Football is minature war. Fighting over 100 yards of real estate, totally idiotic. The toughest and dumbest kids were always the football players in the schools I attended. From the way you post, I must assume you are a huge football fan!

LMAO! You consider someone that is able to memorize up to over a hundred plays and execute them as being a dumb person? I guess it is a bit to violent for some though.....it's about the only sport left that women don't have their own league for.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Zimzum]

No amount of "gun barrel politics" or "cowboy diplomacy" will ever allow us to win the war. Sure we can keep killing them but its setting an example to there kids that America is evil, and only driving more of them to the nut bags controlling there religion. If Saddam was still around Iran would not be pulling what it is doing today. While we might not agree that there governments are the best when it comes to humanitarian efforts, we can see today why they rule with an almost iron fisted law. What we are accustomed to as Americans does not necessarily mean it would be right for everyone else. Imagine an America run by hard line Christians.. The ones who take the bible line for line as divine law. Even the parts that say to "stone your kids to death for talking back to you"

i think this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM1hJ_mA2nA)should sum up global politics

"Everybody's got a special kind of story
Everybody finds a way to shine,
It don't matter that you got not alot
So what,
They'll have theirs, and you'll have yours, and I'll have mine.
And together we'll be fine....

Because it takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.
Yes it does.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world."

[Psycho4Bud]

No amount of "gun barrel politics" or "cowboy diplomacy" will ever allow us to win the war. Sure we can keep killing them but its setting an example to there kids that America is evil, and only driving more of them to the nut bags controlling there religion.

They already teach that in the religion, cartoons, etc...to their children.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Kid Dynamite]

They already teach that in the religion, cartoons, etc...to their children.

Have a good one!:s4:

You watched WWE recently? The main "baddy" is a bloke named Muhammed Hassan and his muslim stable. All countries engage in propoganda, not just those in the middle east.

[Psycho4Bud]

You watched WWE recently? The main "baddy" is a bloke named Muhammed Hassan and his muslim stable. All countries engage in propoganda, not just those in the middle east.

That S.O.B. is HUGE!! That's been going on in wrestling for years and years.....remember the feud between the Iron Shiek and Hacksaw Jim Duggen? ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY!!!:S2:

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

They already teach that in the religion, cartoons, etc...to their children. Just tell me this. If a foriegn nation (Russia,China, etc) invaded our country, Killed 50-800 thousands of our citizens, blew up most neighborhoods and had tanks rumbling up and down our streets. Then sent heavily armed men stomping in your front door all hours of the night, dragging off the men of the house, never to be seen again, scaring the be-jesus out of the women and children, having death squads of illegal mexicans roaming the streets at night picking out individuals and cutting off their heads and leaving them lying by the side of the road, How would you feel about the invading force. Yeah I'm sure you would just love them. If you had any balls, you would join the insurgents and fight them at every chance. If you had a mind large enough to put yourself in their position, you'd understand their hatred of us, obviously you have limited intellect and compassion and can only see the mono-view, the American brainwashed version of global domination, or as others see us, the imperialists. There is more to this planet than American policy. I am glad I live in America and at one time I was proud to be American, but lately, shame is more the feeling I have. We have been led to believe that the enemy is whomever the Bush Admin says it is and they deserve no less than total destruction.... Yet the real enemy is the Bush Admin. and the do nothing congress that has allowed this despicable crowd to emerge, propped up by corporations that have no conscience. It is soley on the (head in the sand) American people that have let this happen. We have discovered the true enemy and it is us.

[Psycho4Bud]

For such a "peace loving" person you sure are good with the insults. If that's what floats your boat.......go for it!

Did we invade Iran? Saudi Arabia? THAT is where these flicks are originating from. All that rant just to look like the fool.....tsk, tsk

Have a good one!:s4:

[Zimzum]

So P4B.. What would you do if foreign troops where roaming your neighborhood and killing/arresting those you know? Would you not fight back in the name of America? We need to be very careful as no militarized nation in history has lasted.. Nepolian..Hitler..Ottomen Empire.. Roman Empire.. USSR.. Japan (ww2 era).. All nations that turned militarized and were all doomed to failure in the end.

[Psycho4Bud]

So P4B.. What would you do if foreign troops where roaming your neighborhood and killing/arresting those you know? Would you not fight back in the name of America? We need to be very careful as no militarized nation in history has lasted.. Nepolian..Hitler..Ottomen Empire.. Roman Empire.. USSR.. Japan (ww2 era).. All nations that turned militarized and were all doomed to failure in the end.

Come on now.......this is about Iraq where 70% of the country was being held under the gun right? The Kurds and 99% of the Shiite were thankful for what we did. Now we just have to rid the assclowns out of there.

IF we were invaded by a hostile force.....hell yes I'd fight. IF we were being liberated from a "facist regime" and my neighbors were blowing up my OTHER friends AND their kids.....that would be MUCH different.

BUT..........when did we invade Iran and Saudi Arabia?

Have a good one!:s4:

[Zimzum]

"Come on now.......this is about Iraq where 70% of the country was being held under the gun right?"

Yes, but atleast with a gun its only as good as who aims it. Now these people shop in a market with the fear that the person next to them might blow themselves up. Did we really help them by trading one fear for another?

"IF we were invaded by a hostile force.....hell yes I'd fight. "

:thumbsup:

[Psycho4Bud]

Did we really help them by trading one fear for another?

Depends where ya live over there. Are ya in the northern Kurdish area where they'd kick people out of their homes in Kirkuk and replace them with Sunni? Or the other Kurds that they exterminated with chemical weapons? Or the Shiite in the south that lost its agriculture because Saddam damned off the wetlands? Between the chemical weapons and starvation MOST of the country is VERY pleased to see his ass gone.

Of course they don't like our being there but they also realize that if we were to leave it would be outright chaos. Basically, were are the better of the two evils at present.

Have a good one!:s4:

[andruejaysin]

BUT..........when did we invade Iran Spring '08, if I had to guess.

[Kid Dynamite]

That S.O.B. is HUGE!! That's been going on in wrestling for years and years.....remember the feud between the Iron Shiek and Hacksaw Jim Duggen? ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY!!!:S2:

Have a good one!:s4:

Seargent Slaughter was the best wrestler ever, imo.

And yes at the end of the day, wrestling is just entertainment, but so is this film. Also i did used to prefer it back when they used to at least pretend it was real...some of the antics these days are verging on terminal silliness.


:D legend.

[medicinal]

They already teach that in the religion, cartoons, etc...to their children.

Have a good one!:s4:

So, whats the answer? kill all the radicals. That would be like trying to kill all the neocons here. I think there might be a neocon or two within a couple a miles of my place, so just drop a bomb that would get both of them, and kill everyone else, doesn't compute. you could invite hundreds of thousands to a stadium and blow it up, but after the first one they would be wise to it. Drop a Bomb on Mecca at Haj. would get a few, but really, what is the answer. You can't just kill every muslim on the face of the earth, even if you want to. Maybe you could poison the water. Neutron bombs, anthrax, nerve gas, etc. and then we'd be no better than Sadam. If you kill one of the leaders, that just pisses them off more. So let me hear the answer from some neocons, you guys have all the answers.

[fishman3811]

PSYCHO4BUD first of Bush invade Iraq not to liberate the Iraq people he couldnt give a shit about them.You know why i know , well if Saddam was a dictator of a African country you think American soldiars would be dying i think not.He invaded that country for oil and money plain and simple.You seem to think the Iraq people are better of now than when Saddam was in power,how absurd.I guess the Iraq people fleeing the country dont know how good they have it.Or the hundreds of thousands of Iraq's who are dead why dont you ask their families if they are better off.Where are the WMD's their wasnt any and Bush and the neo-cons new that they just picked and choosed the type of intelliegence to use.But Bush and the Neo-Cons once they get thrown out of office will be charged for war crimes and crimes against humanity that you can count on.

[medicinal]

PSYCHO4BUD first of Bush invade Iraq not to liberate the Iraq people he couldnt give a shit about them.You know why i know , well if Saddam was a dictator of a African country you think American soldiars would be dying i think not.He invaded that country for oil and money plain and simple.You seem to think the Iraq people are better of now than when Saddam was in power,how absurd.I guess the Iraq people fleeing the country dont know how good they have it.Or the hundreds of thousands of Iraq's who are dead why dont you ask their families if they are better off.Where are the WMD's their wasnt any and Bush and the neo-cons new that they just picked and choosed the type of intelliegence to use.But Bush and the Neo-Cons once they get thrown out of office will be charged for war crimes and crimes against humanity that you can count on.

Hell, the cowardly democrats don't even have the balls to start impeachment and cut off war funding. There is way too much coruption and graft in congress to lynch one of their own. To get to Bush-Cheney, you'd have to trick them into going to the Haig and arrest them there, Maybe we could rendition them,~LOL~

[fishman3811]

Well Rummy cancelled his trip to Germany once he found out a group of lawyers were going to charge him with war crimes.So it doesnt have to be the democrates who charge them it can be any country,furthermore i dont think the democrates have the balls to charge anyone for war crimes.Anyway Bush just signed a law saying that him or the adminastration cant be charged for war crimes.But that doesnt make him immune to international law,so if anyone of those criminals leave the U.S.A someone or some country could grab them and take him back to tha Hague for war crimes.The Nazis werent immune after the war and neither will these criminals.

[medicinal]

Well Rummy cancelled his trip to Germany once he found out a group of lawyers were going to charge him with war crimes.So it doesnt have to be the democrates who charge them it can be any country,furthermore i dont think the democrates have the balls to charge anyone for war crimes.Anyway Bush just signed a law saying that him or the adminastration cant be charged for war crimes.But that doesnt make him immune to international law,so if anyone of those criminals leave the U.S.A someone or some country could grab them and take him back to tha Hague for war crimes.The Nazis werent immune after the war and neither will these criminals.

I've got it, We'll tell them they've won an all expense paid trip to amsterdam, with all the underage boys or girls they can use (Bush-Cheney) and have them arrested when they step off the plane, welcome to your new life, behind bars. I'll chip in on the plane fare, anyone else.

[medicinal]

P4bud, didn't mean to get so personal, it's not you I dislike, it's the point of view that you and others have that is spearheading this insanity. The only solution that makes sense to me is the venerable "cut and run". Let them sort it out. There will not be democracy in the middle east in our lifetime. quit trying to shove ten pounds of shit in a one pound sack. Put up our defences where they will do the most good, at our borders and at our vulnerable ports, nuclear and chemical facilities. Am I fucking crazy, or does this make sense?

[Psycho4Bud]

P4bud, didn't mean to get so personal, it's not you I dislike, it's the point of view that you and others have that is spearheading this insanity.

Dude........I know it's nothing personal between us here. Your just as passionate about the pull out as I am in the Git R Done arena. There WAS a member in here that decided to take it to the other level. We MIGHT see him back in two months.....enough said there.

You got your view point.....I got mine. There is a big difference between a good debate like we have been doing as compared to unintelligent dirty ass insults.

Just read this and wanted to do a quick response........Its the Battle of The Gods right now. P4B vs. GOD! Sending tornados my way so I'm signing out and getting wasted.......LOL.

Hey, DAMN.........throwing WMDs at me here, wtf is with that????:D

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

Just read this and wanted to do a quick response........Its the Battle of The Gods right now. P4B vs. GOD! Sending tornados my way so I'm signing out and getting wasted.......LOL.
Man I don't envy you if you're living in tornado alley. The only bad stuff we have where I live is the infernal heat in June, July and August. 120+ in my neighborhood. It sure is pretty country, the midwest, but I'll say no to the tornados.

[Delta9 UK]

What has happened in Iraq is deceptively simple on one level:

With regard to regime change - the Coalition forces entered the country and effectively dismantled the existing organisation of government and law enforcement.

Problem is, they didn't replace it quick enough. This sort of "Faux-Democracy" that seems to prevail lately is basically a "dumbed-down" version of the full-blown democracy you see in the west.

In Iraq a blatant power-vacuum appeared and we all know the shit-storm that started as every ass-hat with an AKM tried to fill it.

Bad social planning, not bad war-fighting imho. Iraq is an experiment in regime-change gone badly wrong. These mistakes (to me) stick out like Tits on a Fish ;)

[medicinal]

Bad social planning, not bad war-fighting imho. Iraq is an experiment in regime-change gone badly wrong. These mistakes (to me) stick out like Tits on a Fish
Tits on a fish, I laughed out loud. But you are so right about the social planning, and the war planning, WE (US) kicked ass untill the statue fell, then we thought the Iraqis would fall in love with us. After that, most everything we did was wrong, we let the republican guard disband and the army, we didn't secure the ammo dumps, no rebuilding of infrastructure, and a few hundred thousand unemployed young men got pissed and started throwing rocks, end of story, we lost the war in the first 6 months.

[Fengzi]

We should never have gone into Iraq in the first place. It's ridiculous how many people have died just to boost Lil' Georgie's fragile ego. That being said, I'm in agreement with those that say we shouldn't leave now. Why? Well, we broke it, now we've got to fix it.

Only problem is that Bush and Co. have as much chance of fixing it as a monkey has of designing Intel's hot new chip. Maybe less so. Once again largely due to Bush's fucking ego. He doesn't want to listen to anybody that tells him he was wrong in the first place, which is anyone with any intelligence, so he's stuck listening to the dipshits.

Ironically, all this has left us in a bad position to deal with the much larger potential threat of Iran. While I'm not advocating we invade or attack Iran, the fact that a fundementalist Islamic, and proudly anti-semitic, country is attampting to get nukes is definitely cause for concern. Not to mention the fact that since we took out thier only enemy in '91, they've had a long time to build up their forces. They need to be kept on a very short leash but now our military resources are very strained. Not to mention the fact that the American public won't be so quick to agree next time Bush say's some Middle Eastern Country is a "threat".

"Iran has WMD's? Haha, good one George"

[fishman3811]

Pakistan and India have nukes and they despise each other,but it doesnt mean either country is going to use them.Ever hear of mutual destuction?During the cold war Russia and America hated each other did they use nukes?Let Iran have their nuke it doesnt mean they will use it,because if they do well they can say goodbye too.Them trying to get a nuke is just an excuse to attack Iran.Iran will never use a nuke against Isreal for the same reason Pakistan wont use a nuke against India and for the same reason Russia never used them against America.

[GrowRebel]

I can't believe how you guys let psycho feed you the bullshit on Iran and not challenge his so called facts ...

FACT ... Iran has committed no crime .... they are well within the provisions of the treaty something Israel won't sign.
There is NO PROOF that they are making nuclear weapons that's the lie (that they are)the illegitimate bush regime and the bushies on this forum are spreading.

Iran has the right to nuclear power like anyone else .... this is not about making bombs but supending programs to make fuel for a civilian power reactor. Nothing more.

Iran nuclear weapons ambition still unproven (http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996350)

Diplomats say tests show no nuclear activity at Iran's site (http://english.eastday.com/eastday/englishedition/world/userobject1ai552113.html)

UN probe backs Iran nuclear claim (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4013321.stm)

UN finds no proof of nuclear weapons in Iran (http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2004/11/16/un_finds_no_proof_of_nuclear_weapons_in_iran/)

IAEA Finds no Proof of Iranian Nuclear Weapons Program (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12877.htm)

Why the fuck can't Iran have nuclear power? Who the hell are we to say they can't?:wtf:
Hans Blix - Iran Has Legal Right To Enrich Uranium (http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0502/S00087.htm)

And Iran has cooperated with the UN ...

Iran said to allow UN agency inspection (http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2005/02/05/iran_said_to_allow_un_agency_inspection/)

And let's not forget these reports ....
US 'loses' war games (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1591895,00.html)

War-games find Iran strike unfavorable (http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=fc379756280447ba)

And that bull shit that you posted about Saddam and his sons raping and killing .... do you really believe the Iraqis are going to feel better that the US is doing the same thing only in greater numbers? Get real .... your handle suits you ..... you are psycho like your leaders in the illegitimate regime.

And I know you have no problem that the illegitimate bush's "base" the defense contractors and the oil companies ..... seen gas prices lately because of this shit .... are getting filthy rich off the blood of our soldiers and innocent civilians doesn't bother you in the lest, but where is the money coming from to pay for all this?
Who are we borrowing it from? Because we sure can't afford it .... so who's paying for all this war?

The shit about Iran wanting to destroy Israel .... I say fuck Israel ... their government is just as courrpted as the illegitimate bush regime .... don't wash there is nothing to indicates that Iran calls for the destruction of Isreal even the link you provide stated they did not have the source of the orignial speech.

With all the hate you spew about a people you know nothing about I would have to conclude pyscho that you are a bigot.

This isn't a game .... this isn't some damn movie about truth and justice the american way ..... this is about the death of millions more .... all so the oil and defense contractors and continue to get their blood money.

How many of you believe we would have these "wars of choice" if it were a crime to make a profit during war ... with long jail term and all money taken to and given to the families killed or injured during the war .... you'd think we'd be "spreading freedom and democracy" if they couldn't make a profit?

How many of you believe that?:toilet_claw:

We must get out of Iraq NOW .... allowing more soldiers to die to somehow bring "honor" to the ones who's lives have already been wasted is stupid. We have NO right to be their and since the Iraqi want us out that's enough to leave.

The statement below is more true than it has ever been.

Have a good one.:hippy:

[Psycho4Bud]

I can't believe how you guys let psycho feed you the bullshit on Iran and not challenge his so called facts ...

Hear that medicinal......better "start" disagreeing with me.

FACT ... Iran has committed no crime .... they are well within the provisions of the treaty something Israel won't sign.
There is NO PROOF that they are making nuclear weapons that's the lie (that they are)the illegitimate bush regime and the bushies on this forum are spreading.

You find the post where I stated that they are NOW making nuclear weapons.....hmmmmm, I'll be waiting.

Iran has the right to nuclear power like anyone else .... this is not about making bombs but supending programs to make fuel for a civilian power reactor. Nothing more.

Keep drinkin' that kool-aid dude.

And that bull shit that you posted about Saddam and his sons raping and killing .... do you really believe the Iraqis are going to feel better that the US is doing the same thing only in greater numbers? Get real .... your handle suits you ..... you are psycho like your leaders in the illegitimate regime.

OH.....I just about felt hurt but got over it quickly....nice try though.

And I know you have no problem that the illegitimate bush's "base" the defense contractors and the oil companies ..... seen gas prices lately because of this shit .... are getting filthy rich off the blood of our soldiers and innocent civilians doesn't bother you in the lest, but where is the money coming from to pay for all this?
Who are we borrowing it from? Because we sure can't afford it .... so who's paying for all this war?

The shit about Iran wanting to destroy Israel .... I say fuck Israel ... their government is just as courrpted as the illegitimate bush regime .... don't wash there is nothing to indicates that Iran calls for the destruction of Isreal even the link you provide stated they did not have the source of the orignial speech.

Well, looks like I support Israel while you support Iran.....I wonder which country would welcome us to visit more over the other. Tell ya what, you pick your buddies and I'll go see mine. LMAO!

With all the hate you spew about a people you know nothing about I would have to conclude pyscho that you are a bigot.

This coming from a person that just posts "I say fuck Israel"......just love hypocrits.

This isn't a game .... this isn't some damn movie about truth and justice the american way ..... this is about the death of millions more .... all so the oil and defense contractors and continue to get their blood money.

How many of you believe we would have these "wars of choice" if it were a crime to make a profit during war ... with long jail term and all money taken to and given to the families killed or injured during the war .... you'd think we'd be "spreading freedom and democracy" if they couldn't make a profit?

How many of you believe that?:toilet_claw:

We must get out of Iraq NOW .... allowing more soldiers to die to somehow bring "honor" to the ones who's lives have already been wasted is stupid. We have NO right to be their and since the Iraqi want us out that's enough to leave.

The statement below is more true than it has ever been.

Have a good one.:hippy:

The jabber of the disgruntled.......gotta love it. Why is it that the "peace loving" left comes off as the radical bomb throwers?:rambo:

Have a good one!:s4:

P.S. Hello from a "bushie"

[GrowRebel]

You find the post where I stated that they are NOW making nuclear weapons.....hmmmmm, I'll be waiting.

Please spare us your play on words ..... you make it clear you believe Iran .... (and bleeding hearts) wants to make nukes ...


Sorry.......we'll still be dealing with Iran unless something drastic happens internally in that country.

We'll be digging those shelters if the bleeding hearts get their way and allow Iran to develope nuclear weapons. Then it'll be, "Why didn't our government see this coming and do something about it!".

Like I said their is no evidence that any bleeding hearts want Iran to develop nuclear weapons .... where is your proof other than your short-sighted opinion?


OH.....I just about felt hurt but got over it quickly....nice try though.

I highly doubt you were about to feel anything. Anyone that takes pleasure of a our soldiers killing people that never did anything to the US wouldn't feel hurt. .... nice try though ....


Well, looks like I support Israel while you support Iran.....I wonder which country would welcome us to visit more over the other. Tell ya what, you pick your buddies and I'll go see mine. LMAO!

When did I say I supported Iran? I said they had a right to nuclear power .... that's just fair play .... but you wouldn't understand that concept.


This coming from a person that just posts "I say fuck Israel"......just love hypocrits.

Yeah that's right .... I say fuck the Israeli government .... they are just as corrupted as the illegitimate bush regime .... using the blood of our soldiers for their own political gain ..... yeah fuck the Israeli government ..... and there is nothing hypocritical about it.

When have I ever posted anything about going to war with Israel or killing Israelis ..... you bushies love to call people the things you yourself are ....

... I said it once I'll say it again .... your attachment suit you well.

Have a good one.:p :hippy:
Here another one that suits you
:noel:

[Fengzi]

Damn, the two of you (GrowRebel and P4B) are ridiculous. Such total polar opposites.

P4B is so gung-ho that he shits red, white, and blue. Not to mention the fact that he'd blow ol' Dubya if he said it would help fight terrorism.

GrowRebel is so far to the left that she makes a hero out of anyone who opposes Bush. I'm sure you figure Kim Jong Il is just cute, cuddly, and misunderstood.

Watching you go back and forth is like watching our government at work, It's no wonder it's so fucked up.

[midlifecrisis]

OH Yeah, that reminds me..... What ever happened to Cindy Sheehan?

[GrowRebel]

GrowRebel is so far to the left that she makes a hero out of anyone who opposes Bush. I'm sure you figure Kim Jong Il is just cute, cuddly, and misunderstood.

Watching you go back and forth is like watching our government at work, It's no wonder it's so fucked up.

... and I'm sure you're wrong .... so stop assuming what my motivation is .... you obviously have no clue .... no one said you have to watch.

:noel:

[Psycho4Bud]

P4B is so gung-ho that he shits red, white, and blue. Not to mention the fact that he'd blow ol' Dubya if he said it would help fight terrorism.

No need to, unlike the passive left he at least has enough common sense to know there is a problem. Now if you want to bury your head in Pelosi's box go for it dude.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Psycho4Bud]

Please spare us your play on words ..... you make it clear you believe Iran .... (and bleeding hearts) wants to make nukes ...

NOW ya got it right.....good job!:thumbsup:

Like I said their is no evidence that any bleeding hearts want Iran to develop nuclear weapons .... where is your proof other than your short-sighted opinion?

You state it dude, they just want the nuclear power for peaceful purposes....LMAO, keep them blinders on.

I highly doubt you were about to feel anything. Anyone that takes pleasure of a our soldiers killing people that never did anything to the US wouldn't feel hurt. .... nice try though ....

I know, their all hell nice folk with the IED's, car bombs, etc.....hell, you should invite the poor bastards to your house. LOL

When did I say I supported Iran? I said they had a right to nuclear power .... that's just fair play .... but you wouldn't understand that concept.

LMAO! See my second reply.....thank you for your confirmation.:D

Yeah that's right .... I say fuck the Israeli government .... they are just as corrupted as the illegitimate bush regime .... using the blood of our soldiers for their own political gain ..... yeah fuck the Israeli government ..... and there is nothing hypocritical about it.

O.K. that's not at all hypocritical....:rolleyes:

When have I ever posted anything about going to war with Israel or killing Israelis ..... you bushies love to call people the things you yourself are ....

... I said it once I'll say it again .... your attachment suit you well.

Have a good one.:p :hippy:
Here another one that suits you
:noel:

Isn't that nice.......you too! NOW WATCH OUT, putting a match to your monitor will not burn this flag!

Have a good one!:s4:

[Zimzum]

OH Yeah, that reminds me..... What ever happened to Cindy Sheehan?

I saw her at the Boston rally this last weekend. She is still speaking out.

[Fengzi]

No need to, unlike the passive left he at least has enough common sense to know there is a problem. Now if you want to bury your head in Pelosi's box go for it dude.

Have a good one!:s4:

Bush has common sense? LMAO. I'm pretty confident that when my daughter's history books get to the chapeter with George W. Bush " common sense" won't quite be used in a description of him.

As for burying my head in Pelosi's box, I'll leave that to GrowRebel.

[Zimzum]

"...As I said, I got nothing against the feminists. In fact, I happen to agree with most of the feminist philosophy I have read. I agree for instance, that for the most part, men are vain, ignorant, greedy, brutal assholes who've just about ruined this planet...who've just...who've just about ruined this planet because they're afraid someone might have a bigger dick out there somewhere. Men are basically insecure about the size of their dicks and so they go to war over it. You don't have to be a political scientist or a history major to see the bigger dick foreign policy theory at work. It goes something like this..."what they have bigger dicks? Bomb them!!!" And of course the bombs and the bullets and the rockets are all shaped like dicks. I don't understand that part of it, but it is part of the equation. So I agree with that abstract. That man... men...males have pushed the technology that just about has this planet in a stranglehold. Mother Earth raped again, guess who..."hey she was asking for it." " - George Carlin,"Parental Advisory"

[geisha_grows]

Y'all are crazy. HEY, I have a great idea! Much like our founding fathers wanted us to be free and independent from entangling ourselves in needless global politics, we should not be involved in trying to "spread democracy." It goes against the very principle of freedom and the wishes of our founding fathers.

Second, we are currently engaged in a geopolitical struggle for the last remaining oil reserves. We are giving material support to Saudi Arabia, from whence most of the hijackers from 9/11 originated. Saudi Arabia is the antithesis of what the United States of America represents. It detests individual freedom, it oppresses its people and it supports terrorism.

Third, we require an energy source in order to thrive. This single problem is the root of all other problems. We are involved in war after war to satisfy this problem. We are destroying the environment to satisfy this problem. We are allied with people who, at best, represent the very thing we detest. We are currently betraying the wishes of our founding fathers by becoming involved with geopolitics that do nothing to promote our ideals and make AMERICA the shining EXAMPLE it is supposed to be. Our policies have become a cancer by which the both the federal government and huge private corporations suck the life from the people to grow ever larger and obscene.

What can possibly unite the seemingly-polar opposites of Fengzi and GrowRebel? How about CANNABIS HEMP?

Think about it: cannabis hemp is the greatest plant for producing biomass, and hence biofuel or ethenol. Cannabis hemp would free us from foreign energy dependency, thereby releasing us from geopolitics and wars in far-off countries that don't really want us there to begin with. Cannabis hemp is the great American plant on which Thomas Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence. Cannabis hemp was the plant that was to fuel the car of Henry Ford before DuPont and Rockerfeller and Hearst forced it out of consideration. If we become energy independent, there is no need to worry about terrorism because we won't be there in the terrorists' faces anymore. If we become energy independent, we also free 80% of people from prison for drug related charges. We create a carbon-neutral energy system. We give the land back to farmers, we have no need for spying or torture. Energy independence will bring us back to ourselves.

It's all about cannabis hemp. We need to stop wasting energy fighting one another and find ways to change our country for the better. We can argue all day about liberals and conservatives, neocons and communists...the vigor with which you argue shows how much you care about this country; however, it ultimately does nothing to improve anything. We need to band together and get behind the re-legalization of cannabis hemp.

Now can we have peace and work together to fix this problem?

[Psycho4Bud]

Bush has common sense? LMAO. I'm pretty confident that when my daughter's history books get to the chapeter with George W. Bush " common sense" won't quite be used in a description of him.

As for burying my head in Pelosi's box, I'll leave that to GrowRebel.

As I recall you "Bushie"; you made the statement also that we have to stay the course now. Loosing over there isn't an option.

There are three divisions that I see:
The Right
Those that feel we were just in going over there and should stay for the win.:D

The Moderates
Those that feel that we shouldn't have but can't leave it in a mess; therefore we must stay for the win.:)

The Left
Those that feel that we didn't belong there and should leave it in a mess.:(

Since the moderates USUALLY prevail I guess that's a kick in the ass for the left.:rambohead:

Have a good one!:s4:

[geisha_grows]

Since the moderates USUALLY prevail I guess that's a kick in the ass for the left.:rambohead:


Psycho4Bud, why do you hate America? Why do you try to create as many divisions as possible? See, an American would know the saying "divided we fall," and I see with your hateful words that you are trying to divide Americans and thus make us fall. So again, why do you hate America?

Did you read my post at all? For the record, I call upon the wisdom of the Founding Fathers and say we should get out now. The reason why we're there in the first place is because of our energy needs. If we unite together behind a cause we can all agree upon (i.e.: CANNABIS HEMP...in all its forms) then we will be infinitely stronger for it. No need to argue...we have the solution at hand. Grow cannabis. Are you on board with that?

[Psycho4Bud]

Psycho4Bud, why do you hate America? Why do you try to create as many divisions as possible? See, an American would know the saying "divided we fall," and I see with your hateful words that you are trying to divide Americans and thus make us fall. So again, why do you hate America?

The divisions are clear, nothing I created or have any power in creating. LOL....I hate America??? If hating America means that I don't support terrorists or their funding countries....well, that statement doens't make sense.

Did you read my post at all? For the record, I call upon the wisdom of the Founding Fathers and say we should get out now. The reason why we're there in the first place is because of our energy needs. If we unite together behind a cause we can all agree upon (i.e.: CANNABIS HEMP...in all its forms) then we will be infinitely stronger for it. No need to argue...we have the solution at hand. Grow cannabis. Are you on board with that?

On board and active but I don't think hemp is the cure to the worlds woes.

As for our founding fathers version of isolationism.....when we had to wait for over 50 days for a fleet of invading ships to arrive at our shores that type of philosophy was easy.....this is a different age and time.

Have a good one!:s4:

[GrowRebel]

As for burying my head in Pelosi's box, I'll leave that to GrowRebel.

You don't know as much as you think ..... I don't support Pelosi she is DNC and the DNC is no fucking good. So instead of trying to tell folks what I think you should stick to what you think ..... if you do think that is.:hippy:

[Psycho4Bud]

You don't know as much as you think ..... I don't support Pelosi she is DNC and the DNC is no fucking good. So instead of trying to tell folks what I think you should stick to what you think ..... if you do think that is.:hippy:

I can't hardly wait.....hey, instead of wanting to play this little insult game why don't you try to debate the thread topic? This is really becoming a joke.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Fengzi]

You don't know as much as you think ..... I don't support Pelosi she is DNC and the DNC is no fucking good. So instead of trying to tell folks what I think you should stick to what you think ..... if you do think that is.:hippy:

Ok Princess, you're right. I don't know what you think or what your motivation is. I had assumed your support of Iran was simply due to it being the cause of the week at the patchuli club. But it looks like I was wrong. So then, why not enlighten us? Why do you have so much support for Iran and their anti-semitic President?

[pisshead]

You don't know as much as you think ..... I don't support Pelosi she is DNC and the DNC is no fucking good. So instead of trying to tell folks what I think you should stick to what you think ..... if you do think that is.:hippy:

good luck with that...he's all about creating strawmen, saying you're for them, and then telling you how it's wrong...so it's pointless to even have a discussion.

and don't talk about the founders or the constitution, especially to a neo-con...they have no regard for it.

they'd just as soon consider the founders of the country and constitution pro-terrorist.

they should read the federalist and anti-federalist papers for a real debate, not this made up left/right crap.

[Psycho4Bud]

good luck with that...he's all about creating strawmen, saying you're for them, and then telling you how it's wrong...so it's pointless to even have a discussion.

and don't talk about the founders or the constitution, especially to a neo-con...they have no regard for it.

they'd just as soon consider the founders of the country and constitution pro-terrorist.

they should read the federalist and anti-federalist papers for a real debate, not this made up left/right crap.

No pisshead, the difference between me and you is independent thought. I don't need some shock jock to guide my brain waves. And you call the neo-cons sheep? LOL

By the way, great thoughts on the thread topic......better check to see what A.J. thinks first.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Psycho4Bud]

comment | posted March 8, 2007 (March 26, 2007 issue)
Conscience and the War


Unless the United States withdraws its military forces from Iraq in the near future, a war that began as an unnecessary invasion based on deception and predictably grew into a disastrous occupation will go down in history as a terrible crime, if it hasn't already. For Americans of conscience, Iraq has therefore become the paramount moral issue of our time.

Those of us who were against the war even before it began were often disdained, but now, after four years, only the most myopic or callous among its many well-placed supporters can deny the catastrophic consequences. By inspiring legions of anti-American terrorists where there were few, by straining the US military to its breaking point, by alienating traditional and potential allies abroad, by frightening other states into acquiring new weapons and by provoking popular revulsion around the world, the war has undermined our real national security, from Russia, Afghanistan and the Middle East to the "Homeland." And by already spending more than $400 billion, suffocating other policy initiatives and polarizing the nation, it has prevented the domestic reforms this country urgently needs.

But it is the war's human costs that must be emphasized above all else. The Bush Administration and its bipartisan enablers have already squandered more than 3,100 American lives and maimed tens of thousands more for an unworthy and unwinnable military adventure whose declared purpose has changed repeatedly--from capturing Iraq's (nonexistent) weapons of mass destruction, to fighting Al Qaeda, to deposing a tyrant, to spreading democracy and now to countering Iran. As a result, the families of those American victims have been left without even the solace of knowing their sacrifices were not in vain.

Just a bit of a reminder.....I may not agree with medicinal but at least he holds his ground to the topics in a respectable manner.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[Fengzi]

good luck with that...he's all about creating strawmen, saying you're for them, and then telling you how it's wrong...so it's pointless to even have a discussion.

and don't talk about the founders or the constitution, especially to a neo-con...they have no regard for it.

they'd just as soon consider the founders of the country and constitution pro-terrorist.

they should read the federalist and anti-federalist papers for a real debate, not this made up left/right crap.

Hey Pissy, where have you been lately? No, don't tell me..let me guess. Um, you lost your foil hat and didn't want to risk going to the store for another one because they're all watching. Am I close??

As for it being pointless to have a discussion with me, LOL. This coming from the king of cut and paste. You don't have a thought unless you read it on prisonplanet first.

But hey, calling me a neo-con? That's a low blow. No need for insults. Unless you were referring to P4B. Then I guess it's ok, I don't think he'll mind.

[Psycho4Bud]

But hey, calling me a neo-con? That's a low blow. No need for insults. Unless you were referring to P4B. Then I guess it's ok, I don't think he'll mind.

:S2: CLASSIC!

Have a good one!:s4:

[Zimzum]

good luck with that...he's all about creating strawmen, saying you're for them, and then telling you how it's wrong...so it's pointless to even have a discussion.

and don't talk about the founders or the constitution, especially to a neo-con...they have no regard for it.

they'd just as soon consider the founders of the country and constitution pro-terrorist.

they should read the federalist and anti-federalist papers for a real debate, not this made up left/right crap.

I love the fact these "truthers" call everyone a neo-con who don't share there exact view. You're no different with the copy/pasting from PrisonPlanet, LLC. then someone who does the same with the likes of Bill'O. IMO you are no different than the bots I used to ban for spamming porn on my site.

[Fengzi]

But hey, calling me a neo-con? That's a low blow. No need for insults. Unless you were referring to P4B. Then I guess it's ok, I don't think he'll mind.

P.S. No offense intended P4B. Despite our different viewpoints, I'd sit down and smoke a j with you anyday. Can't say that about everyone here.

[Psycho4Bud]

P.S. No offense intended P4B. Despite our different viewpoints, I'd sit down and smoke a j with you anyday. Can't say that about everyone here.

Hey dude, no offense taken! I'd fire a fatty with you and others in here for sure! LMAO....would really like to get wasted with Great Spirit sometime, now that would be a trip!! :rasta:

Have a good one!:jointsmile: