Question on Cloning

[Chabnoc]

I have never cloned before. As I have read, you have a mother plant which you never take out of the veggie state. If this is true, how do you know it is female, and if not, if it was male, wouldn't you clones also be male? On my next grow, I am thinking I want to make one a mother for clones.

[bongerstonerd00d]

I'm bored, so I will type this out. You clone your plants while they are in veg stage and you carefully mark them to identify them with the plants they came from. Once you flower the plants you took the cuttings from and you determine sex, then you know what clones to keep, and what clones to shitcan.


b0nger

[GodBud]

LOL @ above statement!

[Chabnoc]

Ok,, I do not think I made myself clear here.. People have been known to keep the same mother alive for 5 years with out ever taking it to flowering stage,, hence, never knowing the sex of that plant. The only way I can see this to work is kind of like throwing dice,, pick your mother plant, take clones, let clones mature, if male, then you know mother is really father.... hahaha.. so they all must all die. Not everyone clones then flowers that plant, some people keep the same plant to clone from for years.

[Scarlet Sky]

Ok,, I do not think I made myself clear here.. People have been known to keep the same mother alive for 5 years with out ever taking it to flowering stage,, hence, never knowing the sex of that plant. The only way I can see this to work is kind of like throwing dice,, pick your mother plant, take clones, let clones mature, if male, then you know mother is really father.... hahaha.. so they all must all die. Not everyone clones then flowers that plant, some people keep the same plant to clone from for years.

yeah, i'm one of them. your answer is right above you babe; bonger was kind enough to show you the light. but you shat on his word.

shame shame :(

what you do is flower the original, keeping clones. when you determine sex of the mom in flower, you know the sex of the clone. you grow THAT into a mother to keep in veg for years and years.

comprende?

[Tokudai]

Grow a plant long enough and it will show its sex in the veg state. Every mother I have (5 right now) has calyxes and pistils, since the plants are technically so old. They are what you would consider "preflowers" I guess.

[Scarlet Sky]

Grow a plant long enough and it will show its sex in the veg state. Every mother I have (5 right now) has calyxes and pistils, since the plants are technically so old. They are what you would consider "preflowers" I guess.

this is also true; all of mine are preflowering before i'm ready to flower now, no more forcing... my veg room is ahead of my flower room, unfortunately...

[Tokudai]

There's pics of three of my moms, all with clear preflowers. Oldest one is probably ~ 7 months or so. The second pic is a seed from the veg room also clearly showing female.

I don't know how anyone would be able to buy clones confidently if they didnt!

Sky - I guess its better than lagging behind the bloomroom - downtime sucks! :)

[alwayssleepdeprived]

prune them scarlet...see if you can make a hydra beast ;-) never know maybe you can up your yield haha gl

[Chabnoc]

I am so very sorry if I sounded rude. I did not mean to be in anyway. I do understand that a plant will start to preflower. But I have read of people taking clones from plants before they flower them, not even knowing the sex. This is a dice shoot right? Am I wrong to think that if you do not know the sex of the plant your are cloning from, then you will not know the sex of the clones either?

What I read was something about someone not keeping a mother plant, each time he grows plants he just takes clones from them if he is growing another set of plants. Seems to me it would be best to keep one mother, that way you know the genetics of the plant. And also you would know if it was going to turn into a hermi or what ever..

Maybe I should just stay away from Cloning for a while, and just stick to the simple stuff. Sorry if I should my ignorence.

This is my first grow, I am already thinking about my next grow and have just set my plants into the flowering stage. I was thinking I would get a mother the next batch, but I think I will just wait a few more.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

[alwayssleepdeprived]

chabnoc I just had a cloning question answered in the basic forum and I'll try to respond to your issue...

If you take a clone before you know the sex you really have no way of knowing the sex of the clone....that one is pretty obvious right?

I think people are basically saying if you have a set of plants just get clones of them all and when you find out the best...or the top few females just keep those clones...

I am interested in clones for tons of reasons...the clone is full maturity essentially eliminating the seedling stage...from what I was told clones are a bit hardier and easier to deal with as well...

I think it makes the most sense to get a good mother....take the clones of her and grow them all under the same light in one res...this way they should all grow at the same speed and want the same nutes all the way through the grow...they should also give you about the same yield so you can make a decent estimate...from seed it's the first time your dealin with that plant so you really don't know what it's gonna do...

I'd say it depends on your grow setup...if you have more room or whatever you could have a mother produce clones for one light/res setup and another mother produce clones for another light/res setup...this way you can tweak the grow for each strain...I might be talking out my ass as I've never actually done this but I'm confident the logic is sound so that's my recommendation

Hope you aren't turned away from clones cause they seem to be the better way to go once you get a good mother...

[bongerstonerd00d]

<shakes head> so it is that big of a deal to keep 20-30 clones all marked so you can identify with plant they came from under a T-5? Once you know your fem's, you pick yer best pheno and toss the others. Then you can make them moms or whatever the hell you want. THEN have quality to clone from, not the other way around. The idea is to clone from the best pheno plants.

Best pheno's being nice tight nodes, yield, mold resistance, etc etc etc. Of course your growing method and overall setup (lights, vents, nutes, etc) will have an effect on the plant as well.

For instance, if I am growing a 10 pack of a new strain. I veg all of them. Before I put in flower I take 2 clones from each (in case 1 dies or whatever-which is rare) and I mark them as well as the plant they came from. Then once I put all 10 of the vegged plants into flower I shitcan any males of course and watch for my best pheno and I keep the clone of THAT plant I took for my mother out of the remaining clones minus the males I already executed. I toss the others, make her a bonsai mom, and I got clones when I need em.

My theory is to grow plants with only the best pheno's. WHy fuck around growing some low yielding, lanky ass plant ? While my new mom is in her bonsai training, I have already been vegging clones from my other moms I have and minus a day or two to clean the systems I am ready to load the aero's and flower again:pimp:



Since I originally answered, I thought it only fair I go into a little more detail. If you dont understand my method now, I guess I am just a misunderstood person.


b0nger

[JackdaWack]

to answer your question yes it is a roll of the dice, but isnt it alwasy when your not dealing with established moms or pops..... there are many ways to get a mom, when starting to find your mom u will be not sure if it is male or female just like any other plant, hence the reason for flowering one or two of the clones, or flowering the plant you took the clones from leaving the clones in vegg. You need to establish if it is male or female just like any other plant. im trying to figure out what you dont understnad here.

[GodBud]

im trying to figure out what you dont understnad here.

LOL :stoned:

[alwayssleepdeprived]

bongerstonerdood I got a quick question on nute strength if you are using aero...

I have an aero tank that I put seedlings in and slowly climbed the nutes and I'm at about 600 now minus 100 starting water so 500ppm nutes how high do you end up getting the ppm when it comes to aero? I've seen people with other hydro systems get up to 2000 so I'm wonderin if aero is really that much lower all the way through...

[JackdaWack]

bongerstonerdood I got a quick question on nute strength if you are using aero...

I have an aero tank that I put seedlings in and slowly climbed the nutes and I'm at about 600 now minus 100 starting water so 500ppm nutes how high do you end up getting the ppm when it comes to aero? I've seen people with other hydro systems get up to 2000 so I'm wonderin if aero is really that much lower all the way through...

It completely depends on your strain, in flowering i would say an average is 1600ppms but people can get it higher simply by training the plant to take in more by upping levels slowly over time. U need to figure it out for yourself what ppms your plants like and how to watch for when they are just at the right spot, u will see very nice green leaves with no abnormities, by upping ppms gradually over time u rid of the risk of burnign them becuase u can always back off and lower it with out any stunting of growth. Every system is also different so u need to "get to know" how your system operates, a first grow ussually lets u know how your system is going to preform.

[Chabnoc]

Bonger, Thanks for all the fine Info. I do understand what you are talking about now. It was another guys thread that had confused me to begin with. He had said something about taking a couple clones for his mothers before he sent them into flower stage. When he said this, I thought Hmm, if he takes only a few clones, he might be taking all clones from male plants. Seems to me he should take at least a clone from each plant to make sure he does get a good mother.

I do definitely like Bongers way best. You only really need one mother. So why not have the best mother you can. Or mothers.

So thanks Bonger, when I start to clone, I will definitely be doing it your way.

[bongerstonerd00d]

AS-Deprived. I do not get to 2000 PPM. I pretty much follow LW's recipe and it does a great job. I do sometimes cut back the N a little more depending on the strain. I would think at 2000 ppm you might be approaching the point diminishing returns.

Chabnoc--glad I could clear things up for ya. As I said, my goal is to have the best pheno of a particular strain to clone from and only way to find that out is to grow the plants to maturity while keeping clones of them in veg. You should research bonsai training....think I have link International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - ALL ABOUT BONSAI MOMS/MUMS (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31919&highlight=bonsai+mom). Good read and shows you how to keep small, yet productive. Train your moms as they suggest and you can keep moms for 6-8 strains in a pretty small area under a T-5.


Good luck ASD and C-Noc

b0nger

[alwayssleepdeprived]

Thanks Jack and Bonger

I'm currently running at 600ppm bloom nutes since I've changed the res...I'm going to keep upping it about 100 per day and see if that helps it bud any better...unfortunately of the 9 I started with I only have one that's definately a female but atleast it was the best of the lot so that's something...

Good luck on taking over your plant world chabnoc

[HighSeekerz]

Another method you may use, which I am using...

Plant all your seeds, veg and start flower, and as you sex them (in the first 10 days of flower), cut clones from the lower branches of your best females. This way you know your clones are females. THEN, when your clones grow up, make 1 a MOM!

[dboy]

Grow a plant long enough and it will show its sex in the veg state. Every mother I have (5 right now) has calyxes and pistils, since the plants are technically so old. They are what you would consider "preflowers" I guess.

I'm showing my sex right now, and believe me, it AINT pre-flowers; although I am clearly in a veg-state.

Dboy

[latewood]

I'm bored, so I will type this out. You clone your plants while they are in veg stage and you carefully mark them to identify them with the plants they came from. Once you flower the plants you took the cuttings from and you determine sex, then you know what clones to keep, and what clones to shitcan.


b0nger
I love this answer :smokin:


People have been known to keep the same mother alive for 5 years with out ever taking it to flowering stage, hence, they keep the same plant to clone from for years.Once you plant is a month old in veg.=6 weeks from seed, approx.

You take a clone. or 2, or 3. :smokin:

Start 3 plants. take 3 clones from each. Veg for 2 weeks after *rooting.

after 2 weeks of veg=4 weeks from cutting... You flower clones.

2 weeks later, approx... Clones show sex. Kill the males. Keep Mothers in perpetual Veg :smokin:

Does that answer your question? Peace

*You must learn to clone successfully. there are numerous threads, and a Growfaq or 2 in the Forums.